Hi there! New Dm, so I don't really know what I'm doing, but my players are giving me a headache. They enjoy making me furiously improvise, won't get anything at all relevant done, and keep changing their minds on what their doing.
I get that the point of dnd is to have fun, but it's to the point where I am absolutely not having fun, and it's causing me to be more reluctant to play, and I'll end up making a swiss cheese plot just to keep them busy. I want the game to be fun for my players, but I can't make it fun if I end up actively avoiding Dming.
Having a "Session 0" to go over expectations can do a lot.
Basically make sure you and the players are in agreement on
the rules that you will be following
the rules you will not be and how they will be different
What the player's expectation about the game are
What your expectations about the game are
If you want to run a serious period drama and your players want a buddy cop comedy then you will have issues.
It is unfair to your for the players to say one thing, have you prep for it, and then show up to the next session going "nevermind, we don't want to do that anymore"
I've got good news and bad news. The good news: This is normal, and DMs everywhere deal with it from time to time. The bad news: This is normal, and DMs everywhere deal with it from time to time.
On our side of the DM screen, the plot hooks look obvious, everything we spend time prepping is interesting to us, and we see the big picture. Players, however, are very like distractible toddlers who fixate on the weirdest things, ignore helpful guidance, and break things accidentally. Improv, tangents and indecision are stock and trade with all players everywhere because there is a fundamental difference between us and them - they don't have any expectations for how a session will go.
Players show up and poke things with imaginary sticks. That's their job. They don't know which sticks are Important To The Plot and which are just narrative fluff you added to set the scene. And they shouldn't know. It takes away their agency and enjoyment of the game if every choice they make is scripted for them. The best we can do is make clues painfully obvious, roll with the punches...and occasionally shut narrative doors on them. (E.g. "I ask for info about the cult!" "You spend a couple hours interviewing people and start to get the sense this lead is a dead-end.")
All this said...the DM should be having fun, and if you're not, that's a problem. The best way to fix it is first to identify why you're not having fun.
Reasons DMing isn't fun for you anymore:
1. You are excited about your story and it isn't coming to life the way you envision 2. Your players' behavior makes you feel ignored or disrespected and it doesn't seem they notice or care 3. The table dynamic has changed and you prefer how it used to be 4. You're dealing with burnout
If reason 1 resonates with you...you might be holding onto your story too tightly. Having a "plot" can be a tricky thing, because it often assumes players will follow it to the letter. Players can't, because they haven't read the plot and are constrained only by imagination and what you'll allow. Wanting them to follow a plot requires them to essentially read your mind, and that's unfair. So if you're DMing because you want to tell a specific story, with specific outcomes, you're going to end up frustrated.
Addressing reason 1...embrace collaborative play. If you think of DMing as providing interesting choices to your players rather than plots, and allow them to take the lead in creating the story, you'll be less stressed when they go "off-script." Also, you can try to think about narrative contingencies for if your players do something besides what you think/want them to. That way you won't have to improv as much. Finally, you'll get better with improv with time. Trust me.
If reason 2 resonates with you...they may be oblivious to your feelings, or they may be rude players.
Addressing reason 2...talk to your players openly and honestly. If they're obviously wasting your time (like RPing a belching contests instead of searching for the hydra), it's okay to remind them that you work hard to prep content for them and you have the right to have some fun too, not just spectate their randomness. If they're good players, they'll try to limit the goofing off. If they're bad players, they won't and you should ditch them. You deserve better.
If reason 3 resonates with you...it might be a real life thing. People can sometimes change their gaming habits if they're dealing with real life stuff. Some of my players do goofier things during sessions when they're stressed because D&D is a bit of an outlet, for example. Also, sometimes people's playstyle preferences change as they get more exposure to the game.
Addressing reason 3...talk with your players. Have another session 0 type chat where you discuss what everyone expectations are and what you're looking for out of a gaming experience. Try to find common ground and maybe set up/review some parameters. See if you can collaborate on making it a game that gives all players, including you, what you need.
If reason 4 resonates with you...you might have been pouring out your creativity for too long without getting your cup filled. DMing can be fun, but it's a lot more work than being a player, and nobody else at the table really knows what you deal with unless they've DMed too. It can be a little lonely behind the screen, especially if you're just watching people have fun and don't get to join in on it yourself.
Addressing reason 4...take a break. Ask one of your players to run a one-shot for the table so you can play. Give yourself permission to put the game on hold (for a short period of time, or even regularly, like once a month if you play weekly) while you recharge. Prep less. Check out this video about rekindling your love for DMing. Sometimes a respite and realignment is all you need.
As I said in the beginning, there's good news and bad news. The bad news is: we've all been there. The good news is: we've all been there. And we didn't stay there.
Best of luck to you! Sorry for the novel, but I hope it helped!
You may find yourself more frustrated if you over-plan your sessions. Sometimes I find that if you plan too much, you're less ready to improvise, and you more need things to go a specific way that you imagined them going when you planned the session.
Players almost never stick to how you imagined things going, so I try to plan a little less to account for their actions. As long as I have a good understanding of the status of my story or game world, you can have a pretty good idea at any given time what would happen if such and such player craziness happened here, how would it effect the plot if such and such NPC died here, etc, then I can leave things more open ended and plan based off what the players do, rather than planning based off what the plot dictates.
Sometimes players even act crazier/care less about the story the less control they have over it, so the more you try to control the plot, the less control the players give you.
Not to say this is what you're doing, but it is a common pitfall of new DM's, so you'll wanna watch out for it.
A few users mentioned being less tied to your plot, which I wanted to expand upon. You should generally have an overarching narrative to your story - something that gives the party a reason to adventure and fight bad guys. This story provides the spine for your campaign and all the other meaty elements can be built from that foundation.
However, when planning your story, try to look in terms of fixed points that the party will accomplish, not a drawn out roadmap. Let the party do what it wants between the fixed points, and figure out a way to shoehorn in the fixed point when appropriate.
For example: You start with some kind of hook - “that evil item you just found? It was given to me by a stranger. I hope that stranger is not doing anything evil and want him stopped.”
Have some information prepared about how to find the stranger, but let the party do what they will to find the information. It does not matter if the hint comes from a priest, a member of a thieves guild, etc. - just let the party investigate in whatever way they want until you feel it is fit to feed them the information.
That provides you two fixed points to prepare as a DM - a call to action and a solution that can be accomplished pretty much anywhere, with anyone. Or maybe you want a specific NPC involved - do not be married to that NPC’s location. If you want the party to meet Bobthor the Flamehammer, do not be married to Bob being at the Dragon Tavern - even if you want to introduce him drinking, you could just see where the party ends up that might have ale. They go to the thieves guild for info? Put a tavern there. They want to go to the mages guild? Bobthor is wandering around outside, having tried to drink some of their concoctions.
As others have said, players have infinite options - but you have just as many infinite options for having the players run into your fixed story moments.
Run a session zero, for sure. It's vital that you explain to the players that D&D is not a sandbox, free-form roaming game and that you can only prepare so much. Explain that having to constantly improvise, while the players ignore the storyline you've crafted, is no fun for you. There is a social contract in the game: the DM will try to give the players things to do that they are interested in, and the players will try their best to engage with the DM's story hooks.
Run a session zero, for sure. It's vital that you explain to the players that D&D is not a sandbox, free-form roaming game and that you can only prepare so much. Explain that having to constantly improvise, while the players ignore the storyline you've crafted, is no fun for you. There is a social contract in the game: the DM will try to give the players things to do that they are interested in, and the players will try their best to engage with the DM's story hooks.
I mean that depends ont he type of campaign, I very much run a sandbox free form roaming game, I provide plot hooks and reasons to get to the next part of the story but equally I have told my players, if it makes sense to your characters feel free to ignore and go and do something entirely random. Now my advice to the OP is to take those hooks you have, and be a little more free with how you present them, maybe your party don't go to the place you expect, but find other ways to nudge them there, maybe instead of an inn keeper telling them Orcs are raiding the town they come across the victims of a raid because they went in a different direction, or they stumble on a dead orc, or they get attacked by orcs. You are getting them on the story thread you wanted while also letting them feel that they are doing what they want in the world.
Hi there! New Dm, so I don't really know what I'm doing, but my players are giving me a headache. They enjoy making me furiously improvise, won't get anything at all relevant done, and keep changing their minds on what their doing.
I get that the point of dnd is to have fun, but it's to the point where I am absolutely not having fun, and it's causing me to be more reluctant to play, and I'll end up making a swiss cheese plot just to keep them busy. I want the game to be fun for my players, but I can't make it fun if I end up actively avoiding Dming.
Any advice helps!
That is pretty much every game everywhere in the world unless the DM is railroading the party. Improv is literally the role of the dm.
Hi there! New Dm, so I don't really know what I'm doing, but my players are giving me a headache. They enjoy making me furiously improvise, won't get anything at all relevant done, and keep changing their minds on what their doing.
I get that the point of dnd is to have fun, but it's to the point where I am absolutely not having fun, and it's causing me to be more reluctant to play, and I'll end up making a swiss cheese plot just to keep them busy. I want the game to be fun for my players, but I can't make it fun if I end up actively avoiding Dming.
Any advice helps!
That is pretty much every game everywhere in the world unless the DM is railroading the party. Improv is literally the role of the dm.
No, the DM's role is to run the game world. There will be improv for all players, but there's a vast difference between "I have to invent Mandy the random blacksmith's family history because the conversation went that way" and "I have to invent an entire forest because the players adamantly refused to stay in the town where all the plot hooks are." It's only what happens when the players don't understand the game they're playing - which is normal, but only really happens with people who are new.
There is a responsibility on the players to play the DM's game. The idea that the players should just be free-form roaming around a landscape that's fabricated as and where they wander into it is one way you can play it, but it's a bad way and the DM isn't going to have any fun.
What you are saying is true for a highly structured and linear story (railroad). But not all games are. Some games are truly open world. Players can literally chose to do anything that interests them. A DM should be able to make things up on the fly and shouldn’t get cross or upset if the players choose to do something totally different. A DM can’t begin to prepare for all of the possibilities that a group of players might try to do, and sometimes the DM won’t have even considered the option that the players decide to go with.
I have lost count the number of times I have had to make up entirely new encounters, locations, and plot hooks to get a game moving back in the direction I wanted because the ‘damn fool of a Took’ group decided to do something that I hadn’t even contemplated that they would have been stupid enough to try. That is a major part of the fun of being a DM. At least for me anyway, if the players aren’t able to have meaningful and impacting choices then you might as well just sit down and read them a story.
The real trick to it though is not letting the players know. Keep the story flowing, make them think that it’s all under control and that they are doing exactly what they were supposed to be doing. That is much harder now with online vtt’s and maps that need to be pre-made and uploaded etc. At face to face games I have literally sat at the table and drawn dungeon or encounter maps free hand for the first time on hex-paper in front of the players, making it up as I went along. Because they decided that some super minor fluff information I gave them 2 sessions previously was actually the entire main story and they went all out to investigate.
When your players act like this, punish em, hit them with a powerful encounter or a tedious quest! You can also use npcs to suggest areas to go, make sure to leave many subtule but detecable hints to where you want them to go.
Hi there! New Dm, so I don't really know what I'm doing, but my players are giving me a headache. They enjoy making me furiously improvise, won't get anything at all relevant done, and keep changing their minds on what their doing.
First of all, the advice others have given regarding setting expectations and talking about this is not only good but critical to a healthy game. Be honest with your players about not wanting or being able to improv as much as they expect you to, and needing them to commit to an idea. If they cannot compromise on that front it's in both parties' interests to find another table.
I can't help much on the improv: what specifically do they want you to improv? You don't have to roleplay every encounter if it's something like a shopkeep or random villager; a handy list of what [social stratosphere this person belongs to] knows is a useful enough tool and usually puts an end to repetition as there's only so much information players can get, or services they can provide.
As for them changing their minds, have in-game consequences for dithering. Nothing too dramatic: remind them of the passage of time, that all this talking is making them hungry/thirsty (spend some of their gold), or it's coming up to nighttime and perhaps they should find somewhere to bed down. If they're on the road, remind them how long it'll take for them to change their course, especially if they plan on going off-road. Eat into rations, have journeys require rest and so on. Don't underestimate the logistics side of D&D!
This should be covered in Session Zero or a "time-out" (a mid-game Session Zero, so to speak), so that if they don't like it they can either commit to plans or they can leave.
What we don't do is punish players with suggestions such as blugeoning characters to death, powerful encounters or tedious quests. That's not fun for anyone and nets you a reputation as bad DM. You can get the situation under control without being nasty. Be the better person: politely but firmly tell the players to work with you or they can find someone else to run that sort of game (and they'll soon find out that won't work as well as they'd like).
Zero is the most important number in D&D: Session Zero sets the boundaries and the tone; Rule Zero dictates the Dungeon Master (DM) is the final arbiter; and Zero D&D is better than Bad D&D.
"Let us speak plainly now, and in earnest, for words mean little without the weight of conviction."
Hi there! New Dm, so I don't really know what I'm doing, but my players are giving me a headache. They enjoy making me furiously improvise, won't get anything at all relevant done, and keep changing their minds on what their doing.
There are some good bits of advice in here already, and I'll echo the suggestion to avoid punishing players or threatening PCs. You're trying to solve a problem, not create a new one.
From your limited description, it might seem that you have a party that has access to more information than is necessary for the moment. If you've given them two or three different task options, then you need to have those tasks and the destinations prepped before you provide them. If you slap a region map down on a table, you better believe that one of the players is gonna put a finger on the map and ask: "What's over here?" If you aren't prepared to answer that question, avoid giving them that map, that source of information.
I might suggest keeping the important plot lines important. Everything in the game world takes time. Travel, resting, downtime activities, exploring old ruins... everything takes time. The players can't control the passage of in-game time, the DM does. And while the players aren't in charge of the clock, they are able to decide what their PCs do with that clock. Should they choose to do something that is not a major plot point, that plot point might well resolve itself in a manner that could be considered negative to the game world. The party should always feel the crushing weight of time on their backs. The requirement to prioritize their tasks in order to accomplish the most beneficial bits, should always be foremost in their minds. Straying away might lead to misery, destruction and failure.
Be transparent. If your party has told you they want to go to a destination at the end of a session, then when you join the next session, they want to do something totally different, just tell them the truth. You don't have anything prepped for that. You were told they wanted to "Adventure 3", and now they want to do "Exploreing F". There's nothing ready for that. Tell them that either they go with the material that they asked for previously, that is prepped, or you close the session and try again next week. If that doesn't sit well with a couple of players, you might actually be better off.
Lastly, every new DM (even some of the "old" DMs) could use this video series. I linked the problem players vid, but the rest of the series is good too.
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When your players act like this, punish em, hit them with a powerful encounter or a tedious quest! You can also use npcs to suggest areas to go, make sure to leave many subtule but detecable hints to where you want them to go.
Ooh noooo. I'm a big proponent of not seeking in-game solutions to out-of-game problems, and punishing your players? We're adults, we shouldn't have to "punish" each other to get what we want, we have words. Making the game worse won't make it better.
Bad or suboptimal things should only happen to the players in game as a result of choices they did or didn't make in-game. Going into a dungeon unprepared, claiming the ominous magic sword that everyone is pretty sure is cursed, trusting the devious NPC cause they pay way more than any other quest giver, sure, those are all openings to throw extra challenges your players' way. But if your play styles don't mesh together? That's a communication problem that needs to be solved out of game.
When your players act like this, punish em, hit them with a powerful encounter or a tedious quest! You can also use npcs to suggest areas to go, make sure to leave many subtule but detecable hints to where you want them to go.
No, you can’t ‘punish’ them! Are you their parent? Their teacher? Are you in law enforcement? The very notion is utterly juvenile. The solution is simple, step up and be the dm, or step down and let someone else take over.
Looking at your first statement, it sounds like their approach to game is to make you work, a kind of "poke the bear" mentality where they are not in the game to tell a story but rather to watch the DM "dance".
IF that is the case your players are just being bullies and there is no saving it, move on and find new players or whatever. You can also punish your characters as others have noted. If I did this I would go all out and make sure I actually kill some of them. This is a solution of sorts but won't lead to a more fun game I don't think. It just lets them know that you can be a bigger bully than they are.
If on the other hand they are just not into "saving the world", and still want a story but not the one you wrote - that makes it a lot harder but salvageable. IME you need to run more of a sandbox with the story more about them and less about the mission. This is much harder to DM. One thing that heps when you finish a session - What do you think you guys want to do next week?
I think it helps at the beginning if you go over the idea of the campaign that you are heading into. When you buy a book in a store, it usually has a summary on the back that gives you a taste of the adventure inside and gives you an idea of what it is you are going to be reading. Everyone should agree that they are interested in doing that adventure. While there is freedom, it is a story, and it's the job of the players to uncover that. The big events and beats of the story can be planned for, but the stuff in between, you can only have outlines on that problably won't go according to plan. :). That said, if players purposely are trying to derail a campaign, say, find a way to plane shift to the forgotten realms when you are trying to do the curse of strahd, after discussing the above, then maybe there is a larger problem.
I think it helps at the beginning if you go over the idea of the campaign that you are heading into. When you buy a book in a store, it usually has a summary on the back that gives you a taste of the adventure inside and gives you an idea of what it is you are going to be reading. Everyone should agree that they are interested in doing that adventure. While there is freedom, it is a story, and it's the job of the players to uncover that. The big events and beats of the story can be planned for, but the stuff in between, you can only have outlines on that problably won't go according to plan. :). That said, if players purposely are trying to derail a campaign, say, find a way to plane shift to the forgotten realms when you are trying to do the curse of strahd, after discussing the above, then maybe there is a larger problem.
Then again, trying to find a way to escape curse of strahd, especially given that the realm is locked down pretty tight can really enhance the written campaign. I try not to stop my players trying to do anything, But that doesn’t mean everything the players want to try is possible (the strahd example is great because I had a party try that, and when the spell failed the party then had to figure out how to escape, and decided killing strahd was the only way. As soon as he was killed plane shift worked. I had come up with a couple of other things they could have done to get plane shift to work.
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Hi there! New Dm, so I don't really know what I'm doing, but my players are giving me a headache. They enjoy making me furiously improvise, won't get anything at all relevant done, and keep changing their minds on what their doing.
I get that the point of dnd is to have fun, but it's to the point where I am absolutely not having fun, and it's causing me to be more reluctant to play, and I'll end up making a swiss cheese plot just to keep them busy. I want the game to be fun for my players, but I can't make it fun if I end up actively avoiding Dming.
Any advice helps!
Having a "Session 0" to go over expectations can do a lot.
Basically make sure you and the players are in agreement on
If you want to run a serious period drama and your players want a buddy cop comedy then you will have issues.
It is unfair to your for the players to say one thing, have you prep for it, and then show up to the next session going "nevermind, we don't want to do that anymore"
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I've got good news and bad news. The good news: This is normal, and DMs everywhere deal with it from time to time. The bad news: This is normal, and DMs everywhere deal with it from time to time.
On our side of the DM screen, the plot hooks look obvious, everything we spend time prepping is interesting to us, and we see the big picture. Players, however, are very like distractible toddlers who fixate on the weirdest things, ignore helpful guidance, and break things accidentally. Improv, tangents and indecision are stock and trade with all players everywhere because there is a fundamental difference between us and them - they don't have any expectations for how a session will go.
Players show up and poke things with imaginary sticks. That's their job. They don't know which sticks are Important To The Plot and which are just narrative fluff you added to set the scene. And they shouldn't know. It takes away their agency and enjoyment of the game if every choice they make is scripted for them. The best we can do is make clues painfully obvious, roll with the punches...and occasionally shut narrative doors on them. (E.g. "I ask for info about the cult!" "You spend a couple hours interviewing people and start to get the sense this lead is a dead-end.")
All this said...the DM should be having fun, and if you're not, that's a problem. The best way to fix it is first to identify why you're not having fun.
Reasons DMing isn't fun for you anymore:
1. You are excited about your story and it isn't coming to life the way you envision
2. Your players' behavior makes you feel ignored or disrespected and it doesn't seem they notice or care
3. The table dynamic has changed and you prefer how it used to be
4. You're dealing with burnout
If reason 1 resonates with you...you might be holding onto your story too tightly. Having a "plot" can be a tricky thing, because it often assumes players will follow it to the letter. Players can't, because they haven't read the plot and are constrained only by imagination and what you'll allow. Wanting them to follow a plot requires them to essentially read your mind, and that's unfair. So if you're DMing because you want to tell a specific story, with specific outcomes, you're going to end up frustrated.
Addressing reason 1...embrace collaborative play. If you think of DMing as providing interesting choices to your players rather than plots, and allow them to take the lead in creating the story, you'll be less stressed when they go "off-script." Also, you can try to think about narrative contingencies for if your players do something besides what you think/want them to. That way you won't have to improv as much. Finally, you'll get better with improv with time. Trust me.
If reason 2 resonates with you...they may be oblivious to your feelings, or they may be rude players.
Addressing reason 2...talk to your players openly and honestly. If they're obviously wasting your time (like RPing a belching contests instead of searching for the hydra), it's okay to remind them that you work hard to prep content for them and you have the right to have some fun too, not just spectate their randomness. If they're good players, they'll try to limit the goofing off. If they're bad players, they won't and you should ditch them. You deserve better.
If reason 3 resonates with you...it might be a real life thing. People can sometimes change their gaming habits if they're dealing with real life stuff. Some of my players do goofier things during sessions when they're stressed because D&D is a bit of an outlet, for example. Also, sometimes people's playstyle preferences change as they get more exposure to the game.
Addressing reason 3...talk with your players. Have another session 0 type chat where you discuss what everyone expectations are and what you're looking for out of a gaming experience. Try to find common ground and maybe set up/review some parameters. See if you can collaborate on making it a game that gives all players, including you, what you need.
If reason 4 resonates with you...you might have been pouring out your creativity for too long without getting your cup filled. DMing can be fun, but it's a lot more work than being a player, and nobody else at the table really knows what you deal with unless they've DMed too. It can be a little lonely behind the screen, especially if you're just watching people have fun and don't get to join in on it yourself.
Addressing reason 4...take a break. Ask one of your players to run a one-shot for the table so you can play. Give yourself permission to put the game on hold (for a short period of time, or even regularly, like once a month if you play weekly) while you recharge. Prep less. Check out this video about rekindling your love for DMing. Sometimes a respite and realignment is all you need.
As I said in the beginning, there's good news and bad news. The bad news is: we've all been there. The good news is: we've all been there. And we didn't stay there.
Best of luck to you! Sorry for the novel, but I hope it helped!
You may find yourself more frustrated if you over-plan your sessions. Sometimes I find that if you plan too much, you're less ready to improvise, and you more need things to go a specific way that you imagined them going when you planned the session.
Players almost never stick to how you imagined things going, so I try to plan a little less to account for their actions. As long as I have a good understanding of the status of my story or game world, you can have a pretty good idea at any given time what would happen if such and such player craziness happened here, how would it effect the plot if such and such NPC died here, etc, then I can leave things more open ended and plan based off what the players do, rather than planning based off what the plot dictates.
Sometimes players even act crazier/care less about the story the less control they have over it, so the more you try to control the plot, the less control the players give you.
Not to say this is what you're doing, but it is a common pitfall of new DM's, so you'll wanna watch out for it.
Thank you! This did indeed help!
A few users mentioned being less tied to your plot, which I wanted to expand upon. You should generally have an overarching narrative to your story - something that gives the party a reason to adventure and fight bad guys. This story provides the spine for your campaign and all the other meaty elements can be built from that foundation.
However, when planning your story, try to look in terms of fixed points that the party will accomplish, not a drawn out roadmap. Let the party do what it wants between the fixed points, and figure out a way to shoehorn in the fixed point when appropriate.
For example: You start with some kind of hook - “that evil item you just found? It was given to me by a stranger. I hope that stranger is not doing anything evil and want him stopped.”
Have some information prepared about how to find the stranger, but let the party do what they will to find the information. It does not matter if the hint comes from a priest, a member of a thieves guild, etc. - just let the party investigate in whatever way they want until you feel it is fit to feed them the information.
That provides you two fixed points to prepare as a DM - a call to action and a solution that can be accomplished pretty much anywhere, with anyone. Or maybe you want a specific NPC involved - do not be married to that NPC’s location. If you want the party to meet Bobthor the Flamehammer, do not be married to Bob being at the Dragon Tavern - even if you want to introduce him drinking, you could just see where the party ends up that might have ale. They go to the thieves guild for info? Put a tavern there. They want to go to the mages guild? Bobthor is wandering around outside, having tried to drink some of their concoctions.
As others have said, players have infinite options - but you have just as many infinite options for having the players run into your fixed story moments.
Run a session zero, for sure. It's vital that you explain to the players that D&D is not a sandbox, free-form roaming game and that you can only prepare so much. Explain that having to constantly improvise, while the players ignore the storyline you've crafted, is no fun for you. There is a social contract in the game: the DM will try to give the players things to do that they are interested in, and the players will try their best to engage with the DM's story hooks.
Negan. Introduce one of the PCs to Negan and Lucille.
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I mean that depends ont he type of campaign, I very much run a sandbox free form roaming game, I provide plot hooks and reasons to get to the next part of the story but equally I have told my players, if it makes sense to your characters feel free to ignore and go and do something entirely random. Now my advice to the OP is to take those hooks you have, and be a little more free with how you present them, maybe your party don't go to the place you expect, but find other ways to nudge them there, maybe instead of an inn keeper telling them Orcs are raiding the town they come across the victims of a raid because they went in a different direction, or they stumble on a dead orc, or they get attacked by orcs. You are getting them on the story thread you wanted while also letting them feel that they are doing what they want in the world.
That is pretty much every game everywhere in the world unless the DM is railroading the party. Improv is literally the role of the dm.
No, the DM's role is to run the game world. There will be improv for all players, but there's a vast difference between "I have to invent Mandy the random blacksmith's family history because the conversation went that way" and "I have to invent an entire forest because the players adamantly refused to stay in the town where all the plot hooks are." It's only what happens when the players don't understand the game they're playing - which is normal, but only really happens with people who are new.
There is a responsibility on the players to play the DM's game. The idea that the players should just be free-form roaming around a landscape that's fabricated as and where they wander into it is one way you can play it, but it's a bad way and the DM isn't going to have any fun.
What you are saying is true for a highly structured and linear story (railroad). But not all games are. Some games are truly open world. Players can literally chose to do anything that interests them. A DM should be able to make things up on the fly and shouldn’t get cross or upset if the players choose to do something totally different. A DM can’t begin to prepare for all of the possibilities that a group of players might try to do, and sometimes the DM won’t have even considered the option that the players decide to go with.
I have lost count the number of times I have had to make up entirely new encounters, locations, and plot hooks to get a game moving back in the direction I wanted because the ‘damn fool of a Took’ group decided to do something that I hadn’t even contemplated that they would have been stupid enough to try. That is a major part of the fun of being a DM. At least for me anyway, if the players aren’t able to have meaningful and impacting choices then you might as well just sit down and read them a story.
The real trick to it though is not letting the players know. Keep the story flowing, make them think that it’s all under control and that they are doing exactly what they were supposed to be doing. That is much harder now with online vtt’s and maps that need to be pre-made and uploaded etc. At face to face games I have literally sat at the table and drawn dungeon or encounter maps free hand for the first time on hex-paper in front of the players, making it up as I went along. Because they decided that some super minor fluff information I gave them 2 sessions previously was actually the entire main story and they went all out to investigate.
When your players act like this, punish em, hit them with a powerful encounter or a tedious quest! You can also use npcs to suggest areas to go, make sure to leave many subtule but detecable hints to where you want them to go.
First of all, the advice others have given regarding setting expectations and talking about this is not only good but critical to a healthy game. Be honest with your players about not wanting or being able to improv as much as they expect you to, and needing them to commit to an idea. If they cannot compromise on that front it's in both parties' interests to find another table.
I can't help much on the improv: what specifically do they want you to improv? You don't have to roleplay every encounter if it's something like a shopkeep or random villager; a handy list of what [social stratosphere this person belongs to] knows is a useful enough tool and usually puts an end to repetition as there's only so much information players can get, or services they can provide.
As for them changing their minds, have in-game consequences for dithering. Nothing too dramatic: remind them of the passage of time, that all this talking is making them hungry/thirsty (spend some of their gold), or it's coming up to nighttime and perhaps they should find somewhere to bed down. If they're on the road, remind them how long it'll take for them to change their course, especially if they plan on going off-road. Eat into rations, have journeys require rest and so on. Don't underestimate the logistics side of D&D!
This should be covered in Session Zero or a "time-out" (a mid-game Session Zero, so to speak), so that if they don't like it they can either commit to plans or they can leave.
What we don't do is punish players with suggestions such as blugeoning characters to death, powerful encounters or tedious quests. That's not fun for anyone and nets you a reputation as bad DM. You can get the situation under control without being nasty. Be the better person: politely but firmly tell the players to work with you or they can find someone else to run that sort of game (and they'll soon find out that won't work as well as they'd like).
Zero is the most important number in D&D: Session Zero sets the boundaries and the tone; Rule Zero dictates the Dungeon Master (DM) is the final arbiter; and Zero D&D is better than Bad D&D.
"Let us speak plainly now, and in earnest, for words mean little without the weight of conviction."
- The Assemblage of Houses, World of Warcraft
There are some good bits of advice in here already, and I'll echo the suggestion to avoid punishing players or threatening PCs. You're trying to solve a problem, not create a new one.
From your limited description, it might seem that you have a party that has access to more information than is necessary for the moment. If you've given them two or three different task options, then you need to have those tasks and the destinations prepped before you provide them. If you slap a region map down on a table, you better believe that one of the players is gonna put a finger on the map and ask: "What's over here?" If you aren't prepared to answer that question, avoid giving them that map, that source of information.
I might suggest keeping the important plot lines important. Everything in the game world takes time. Travel, resting, downtime activities, exploring old ruins... everything takes time. The players can't control the passage of in-game time, the DM does. And while the players aren't in charge of the clock, they are able to decide what their PCs do with that clock. Should they choose to do something that is not a major plot point, that plot point might well resolve itself in a manner that could be considered negative to the game world. The party should always feel the crushing weight of time on their backs. The requirement to prioritize their tasks in order to accomplish the most beneficial bits, should always be foremost in their minds. Straying away might lead to misery, destruction and failure.
Be transparent. If your party has told you they want to go to a destination at the end of a session, then when you join the next session, they want to do something totally different, just tell them the truth. You don't have anything prepped for that. You were told they wanted to "Adventure 3", and now they want to do "Exploreing F". There's nothing ready for that. Tell them that either they go with the material that they asked for previously, that is prepped, or you close the session and try again next week. If that doesn't sit well with a couple of players, you might actually be better off.
Lastly, every new DM (even some of the "old" DMs) could use this video series. I linked the problem players vid, but the rest of the series is good too.
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
Ooh noooo. I'm a big proponent of not seeking in-game solutions to out-of-game problems, and punishing your players? We're adults, we shouldn't have to "punish" each other to get what we want, we have words. Making the game worse won't make it better.
Bad or suboptimal things should only happen to the players in game as a result of choices they did or didn't make in-game. Going into a dungeon unprepared, claiming the ominous magic sword that everyone is pretty sure is cursed, trusting the devious NPC cause they pay way more than any other quest giver, sure, those are all openings to throw extra challenges your players' way. But if your play styles don't mesh together? That's a communication problem that needs to be solved out of game.
No, you can’t ‘punish’ them! Are you their parent? Their teacher? Are you in law enforcement? The very notion is utterly juvenile. The solution is simple, step up and be the dm, or step down and let someone else take over.
Looking at your first statement, it sounds like their approach to game is to make you work, a kind of "poke the bear" mentality where they are not in the game to tell a story but rather to watch the DM "dance".
IF that is the case your players are just being bullies and there is no saving it, move on and find new players or whatever. You can also punish your characters as others have noted. If I did this I would go all out and make sure I actually kill some of them. This is a solution of sorts but won't lead to a more fun game I don't think. It just lets them know that you can be a bigger bully than they are.
If on the other hand they are just not into "saving the world", and still want a story but not the one you wrote - that makes it a lot harder but salvageable. IME you need to run more of a sandbox with the story more about them and less about the mission. This is much harder to DM. One thing that heps when you finish a session - What do you think you guys want to do next week?
I think it helps at the beginning if you go over the idea of the campaign that you are heading into. When you buy a book in a store, it usually has a summary on the back that gives you a taste of the adventure inside and gives you an idea of what it is you are going to be reading. Everyone should agree that they are interested in doing that adventure. While there is freedom, it is a story, and it's the job of the players to uncover that. The big events and beats of the story can be planned for, but the stuff in between, you can only have outlines on that problably won't go according to plan. :). That said, if players purposely are trying to derail a campaign, say, find a way to plane shift to the forgotten realms when you are trying to do the curse of strahd, after discussing the above, then maybe there is a larger problem.
Then again, trying to find a way to escape curse of strahd, especially given that the realm is locked down pretty tight can really enhance the written campaign. I try not to stop my players trying to do anything, But that doesn’t mean everything the players want to try is possible (the strahd example is great because I had a party try that, and when the spell failed the party then had to figure out how to escape, and decided killing strahd was the only way. As soon as he was killed plane shift worked. I had come up with a couple of other things they could have done to get plane shift to work.