I've been running a campaign for a while, and my Players are approaching the climax of the story. I will give a very quick and brief explanation of what I've got planned and what I may need help on.
At the end of the second to last arc, an 'evil' scientist will use the power of some artifacts to do what he believes is interdimensional travel. This is not the case as the gemstones are warping his sense of reality (or anyone's reality if they were in contact with these stones for too long). He will use these stones on a kidnapped NPC named Serena to transform her into something 'greater', as she has the most compatibility with them. (This NPC, Serena, is beloved by the Party. Going as far as one of them viewing her as a 'sister'.) Furthermore, Serena's sister is currently traveling with the Party now. When this transformation is completed, Serena's personality will have shifted toward a cruel, evil, and sadistic nature and her appearance will change.
Now at this point, I plan on having Serena attack and kill her sister in front of the Party if she is with them. To show that it is no longer the Serena they remember standing in front of them. On the alternative, the sister would be killed when she enters the combat area (The sister is 8yo and has 10HP total). I am mainly planning this because I am predicting that the Party may not want to fight her. I hope that this would be a huge red flag to them (because they are aware that Serena would kill an entire village for her sister). As an example, I tested to see what would happen if the Party were to fight Serena. It ended up looking like the following: Serena attacks the Party and deals a lot of damage over a long period of time. Party doesn't want to fight back...like...at all (Didn't help if they were not saying anything to her to try and calm Serena down). When one Party member suggest and attempted to knock Serena out, that Player got targeted and beaten by the entire Party for some reason.
What are your thoughts? Should the sister be killed because the Party won't fight? If the sister is killed, should the Party be allowed to attempt to bring her back? Should the Party be allowed to somehow prevent this from happening (Even if they have something in their arsenal to maybe prevent it)?
I’m still reading through the OP, but one thing caught my eye. Killing an elementary age kid in the game is something I really hope you have given fair warning to your party about. Many people would be extremely bothered by having this happen in a TTRPG, pairing it right up there with Sexual Assault by example. At one point I, as DM, was role playing the survivor of a vampire attack and basing my performance on how a **** survivor would act and talk. One of my players privately told me that while I did a good job in my portrayal (it wasn’t bad in the sense of tropes or misrepresentation ), the whole thing extremely bothered her. She did in fact not appear at the next session, and I had to do a lot of apologizing, rightly. This incident is what led me to start using consent form.
My Thoughts: I feel like having the little sister or other important NPC killed for shock value isn’t really necessary. For myself, I certainly support building the atmosphere even prior to seeing Serena, implying inhuman violence and unnatural quiet (or eerie whispering, the odd swinging chandelier, candles or torches that snuff themselves behind you never to relight). I also suggest - where possible as with all of this - maybe having a labyrinth of rooms and towering bookshelves surrounding the ritual room, with perhaps a series of crypts at the back. A blood smeared book provides incomplete steps towards reversing Serena’s condition, but notes potential long lasting side effects. A scrawled note suggest, “Too risky, best to kill her and be done!” Giving the players at least two options. If any of this sounds good, we can work out the potential reversal ritual.
BTW, Thanks for this, really got my creativity cooking. :)
Edit: For portraying the sudden change in Serena, possibly have her come up to a party member before lunging for their throat and then trying to drag them to an open crypt, bloody but still alive and kicking, like a dog with a bone. Have Serena use hit and run tactics, emphasizing she’ll just keep coming but allowing the party to process.
Supposing killing a child is not safety tool material, i would go that route and make it as dramatic as possible, having Serena attack her sister in furious anger for her betrayal while the party try to protect her. Eventually wether it succeed or not would be a matter of luck, leaving it to the dice to decide. But if the party has access to magic that can raise her back, i don't see why it shouldn't be possible.
What’s tripping me up is at the end where you ask if the party should be allowed to do things. How could you stop them? If they have raise dead or revivify, they can attempt to raise her. Why would you try to stop them? Ditto preventing it. How or why would you stop their attempt?
An attempt should always be allowed. Not letting them even try is the worst kind of railroad. If they succeed will come down to their abilities, their plan and the dice, but you shouldn’t stop them trying.
Also as an aside, an 8-year-old has 10 hp? That’s a tough kid. There’s lots of level 1 PCs walking around with less. Not to mention adult commoners.
To reassure you, Appellion, I thought ahead and told all Party members what to expect at the beginning of the quest. Including the potential 'sensitive material/topics' that may appear based on their decisions. They agreed that they would be fine with all the topics that would be introduced. Your ideas on hit-and-run signs, that could work to signal to the Party they need to fight.
With your idea, Plaguescarred, I do like the idea of having the sister confront Serena. Furthermore, due to the sister being 8yo, she would not know entirely what is going on with Serena. The Party should definitely know something is wrong with Serena based on her appearance alone. From the sister's point of view, she is traveling with the Party to find Serena. The sister wants to find her sister to make sure she's safe. Effectively putting herself in harm's way. Did I get that right?
No, I don't plan on stopping them, Xalthu. I made it clear to the Party that they can try and do anything they want. I apologize if there was a miscommunication in my message. The problem is what happens after the deed is done. Without getting too much into as and explaining what has been going n in the campaign (As we would be here all day), I'll give you a very quick explanation of the stones being used and how they work.
To start off, the stones themselves messes with the flow of magic. Which will either cancel it out completely or cause it to go wild. (The Party is aware of this, as it has happened a number of times.) Next, there is an evil entity living inside the gemstones. This, the Party is not aware of. This entity is the one pulling the strings to everything in the campaign; as it is trying to escape its prison. If something is killed using the gemstone's energy, it is destroyed completely (though not immediately). If a creature is killed by it, the evil entity inside devours its soul. Killing off all chances of the creature being revived. This is something the Party is not aware of, however, it was suggested by some data logs they found.
If Serena is being supercharged by this energy (to the point of a mental breakdown into sadistic madness) and she kills a creature, would this have the same effect? As she will be in possession of all the gemstones (and technically being controlled like a puppet by the evil entity).
With your idea, Plaguescarred, I do like the idea of having the sister confront Serena. Furthermore, due to the sister being 8yo, she would not know entirely what is going on with Serena. The Party should definitely know something is wrong with Serena based on her appearance alone. From the sister's point of view, she is traveling with the Party to find Serena. The sister wants to find her sister to make sure she's safe. Effectively putting herself in harm's way. Did I get that right?
I understand, the little sister care for Serena's safety and will not fully understand what happened to her but will still want her well being when getting attacked by her. You said Serena's appearance will change, have you figured how? it's something i would put emphasis on to show her transformation, even slightly so, to demonstrate her new wickedness!
While you can certainly have the little sister* have 10 hit points if you want, just as reference a commoner has 4 hit points in comparison. I
With your idea, Plaguescarred, I do like the idea of having the sister confront Serena. Furthermore, due to the sister being 8yo, she would not know entirely what is going on with Serena. The Party should definitely know something is wrong with Serena based on her appearance alone. From the sister's point of view, she is traveling with the Party to find Serena. The sister wants to find her sister to make sure she's safe. Effectively putting herself in harm's way. Did I get that right?
I understand, the little sister care for Serena's safety and will not fully understand what happened to her but will still want her well being when getting attacked by her. You said Serena's appearance will change, have you figured how? it's something i would put emphasis on to show her transformation, even slightly so, to demonstrate her new wickedness!
While you can certainly have the little sister* have 10 hit points if you want, just as reference a commoner has 4 hit points in comparison. I
*What's her name to better identify her?
Yeah, the sister's name is Nutmeg.
When it comes to Serena about her appearance, her hair color, eyes, and skin will be different. About her transformation happening in front of the Party, I can see what I can come up with. Do you have any suggestions on what I should do?
- Main points to keep in mind:
Evil Scientist transforms Serena into a 'Dark Form' (I don't have a name to call it, other than Dark Serena).
The party needs to fight Serena to prevent her from going on a rampage.
Nutmeg (Serena's sister) wants to help but doesn't understand what's going on. May die in the process.
I could see Serena next encountered with signs she is transformed by the evil scientific and for exemple show clear signs of molecular change such as plasma-like hair, eyes and gas breath flowing with phlogiston matter, the matter that exist between crystal spheres where D&D world co-exist to link to the interdimensional storyline. Phlogiston is rainbow-colored chaotic matter, very flammable fluid that permeated the space between the crystal spheres of the Prime Material Plane.
No, I don't plan on stopping them, Xalthu. I made it clear to the Party that they can try and do anything they want. I apologize if there was a miscommunication in my message. The problem is what happens after the deed is done. Without getting too much into as and explaining what has been going n in the campaign (As we would be here all day), I'll give you a very quick explanation of the stones being used and how they work.
To start off, the stones themselves messes with the flow of magic. Which will either cancel it out completely or cause it to go wild. (The Party is aware of this, as it has happened a number of times.) Next, there is an evil entity living inside the gemstones. This, the Party is not aware of. This entity is the one pulling the strings to everything in the campaign; as it is trying to escape its prison. If something is killed using the gemstone's energy, it is destroyed completely (though not immediately). If a creature is killed by it, the evil entity inside devours its soul. Killing off all chances of the creature being revived. This is something the Party is not aware of, however, it was suggested by some data logs they found.
If Serena is being supercharged by this energy (to the point of a mental breakdown into sadistic madness) and she kills a creature, would this have the same effect? As she will be in possession of all the gemstones (and technically being controlled like a puppet by the evil entity).
Ahh, that makes much more sense. It's not you stopping them, its an in-game mechanical effect that needs to be applied consistently. My mistake for jumping to a conclusion.
As for Dark Serena, did you ever watch Buffy when Willow turned evil? Give her black hair, dark eyes, and dress in a lot of black leather. Basically, assuming Serena is initially a good person who was corrupted, just make her look the opposite. Dark hair turns light, brown eyes turn blue, or vice versa. Drop her voice an octive or two. Or if you're not good with voices, describe it as deeper, and go with the classic movie/TV trope of it sounding like there are multiple creatures talking at the same time. Let her have visible veins in her skin, or something that looks like some kind of creeping fungus showing on her. Say she smells like sulfur or something. Or combine a few of these, depending on how obvious you want it to be. Or only use a couple, and then, if she escapes, you can layer on more effects when they encounter her again.
Does the party need to fight her? If it were me as a player, I'd want to try and save her. That's what heroes do. Something like a hold person followed by a greater restoration or remove curse, or a paladin's lay on hands to remove disease, or, honestly, trying all of the above, plus anything else I could think of. Or if not a magic, then doing nonlethal damage before trying to lift the curse. Is there a way they can save her from the gem's influence besides killing her? And is there a way for the party to know this before they encounter her?
Killing the child sister is maybe the wrong way to go, talking in absolutes. If the child sister confronts her, maybe then even telling your party openly "No, that's not Serena, that is something else." in Horror, let Serena fling the child aside, landing in an unmoving heap, then turn her attention to someone/something else, as if it doesn't matter in any shape or way. In my eyes that's crueler than simply killing her child sister off. (Also, it creates a tense moment in the party. Does she live? Is she dead? If the Players rush to help Serena can laugh at them and tell them how pathetic they are, to aggravate the players further.)
When the party realizes the child is hurt but still alive Serena can also go "Good, maybe i'll use/sacrifice/devour/whatever her pure little soul, later, after i've dealt with you pests..." if you want to hint at the "souleater" again, and makes them want to protect/rescue the child even if its against the not-Serena-anymore-thing. (letting her survive, if the players dont screw up totally. will give them a win even if they might have to kill Not-Serena)
No, I don't plan on stopping them, Xalthu. I made it clear to the Party that they can try and do anything they want. I apologize if there was a miscommunication in my message. The problem is what happens after the deed is done. Without getting too much into as and explaining what has been going n in the campaign (As we would be here all day), I'll give you a very quick explanation of the stones being used and how they work.
To start off, the stones themselves messes with the flow of magic. Which will either cancel it out completely or cause it to go wild. (The Party is aware of this, as it has happened a number of times.) Next, there is an evil entity living inside the gemstones. This, the Party is not aware of. This entity is the one pulling the strings to everything in the campaign; as it is trying to escape its prison. If something is killed using the gemstone's energy, it is destroyed completely (though not immediately). If a creature is killed by it, the evil entity inside devours its soul. Killing off all chances of the creature being revived. This is something the Party is not aware of, however, it was suggested by some data logs they found.
If Serena is being supercharged by this energy (to the point of a mental breakdown into sadistic madness) and she kills a creature, would this have the same effect? As she will be in possession of all the gemstones (and technically being controlled like a puppet by the evil entity).
Ahh, that makes much more sense. It's not you stopping them, its an in-game mechanical effect that needs to be applied consistently. My mistake for jumping to a conclusion.
As for Dark Serena, did you ever watch Buffy when Willow turned evil? Give her black hair, dark eyes, and dress in a lot of black leather. Basically, assuming Serena is initially a good person who was corrupted, just make her look the opposite. Dark hair turns light, brown eyes turn blue, or vice versa. Drop her voice an octive or two. Or if you're not good with voices, describe it as deeper, and go with the classic movie/TV trope of it sounding like there are multiple creatures talking at the same time. Let her have visible veins in her skin, or something that looks like some kind of creeping fungus showing on her. Say she smells like sulfur or something. Or combine a few of these, depending on how obvious you want it to be. Or only use a couple, and then, if she escapes, you can layer on more effects when they encounter her again.
Does the party need to fight her? If it were me as a player, I'd want to try and save her. That's what heroes do. Something like a hold person followed by a greater restoration or remove curse, or a paladin's lay on hands to remove disease, or, honestly, trying all of the above, plus anything else I could think of. Or if not a magic, then doing nonlethal damage before trying to lift the curse. Is there a way they can save her from the gem's influence besides killing her? And is there a way for the party to know this before they encounter her?
For the Serena boss fight, I structured it in a way where when Serena hits 0 HP. The effect from the gemstones will be removed from her and she will fall unconscious. All the physical appearance changes will be reverted back to normal. (When she walks up too, her personality will go back to normal)
The reason why Serena is behaving the way she is is because of the overload of raw/chaotic/wild energy in her body. Currently, I have it in a way where when the Party attacks her, energy is violently expelled outward in the spot the Player hit. Once Serena hits 0 HP, all the energy is expelled from her and she passes out. Is there a spell that would possibly remove all of this excess energy early or quickly?
Killing the child sister is maybe the wrong way to go, talking in absolutes. If the child sister confronts her, maybe then even telling your party openly "No, that's not Serena, that is something else." in Horror, let Serena fling the child aside, landing in an unmoving heap, then turn her attention to someone/something else, as if it doesn't matter in any shape or way. In my eyes that's crueler than simply killing her child sister off. (Also, it creates a tense moment in the party. Does she live? Is she dead? If the Players rush to help Serena can laugh at them and tell them how pathetic they are, to aggravate the players further.)
When the party realizes the child is hurt but still alive Serena can also go "Good, maybe i'll use/sacrifice/devour/whatever her pure little soul, later, after i've dealt with you pests..." if you want to hint at the "souleater" again, and makes them want to protect/rescue the child even if its against the not-Serena-anymore-thing. (letting her survive, if the players dont screw up totally. will give them a win even if they might have to kill Not-Serena)
I do really like this scenario better than before. I will probably be doing this idea.
When it comes to the 'Soul-eating' thing. It is the evil entity within the gemstones that can do that. As the Party fights Serena, the BBEG will slowly be merging the gemstones together to make one big gem. Effectively allowing it to escape.
Merging the gems is good. Make it obvious that it’s happening, and let the PCs have a way to slow down the process. Then it becomes a tactical choice do they try to stop it, or focus on Selena? Hopefully they’ll try to stop it, which can siphon off a few actions from the PCs, helping even out the action economy to make the fight a little more dangerous and interesting. And I’d even allow it to merge if they do nothing and the fight goes on long enough. That can be a fail state where Selena is fully absorbed by the gems and now the BBEG is out.
And I’d make it harder than just knocking her out and it’s over. Feels a little too Hollywood ending for the big, climactic fight. Like knocking her out, then they maybe the spirit busts out a round later and they need to fight it (Like the monsters in the Theros books that basically have a 2-stage fight). Or they see the corruption slowly overtaking her, or reaching out for Nutmeg, and they need to stop it. Something where they defeat Selena, and breathe a sigh of relief, but then it turns out they’re not done.
If you really want to play up the drama, work in something where Selena apologizes to Nutmeg for hurting her as she’s passing out.
The thing I’d try and avoid (which you probably thought of, but in case you didn’t) is letting Selena sacrifice herself. You don’t want an NPC to be the big hero of the story.
What’s tripping me up is at the end where you ask if the party should be allowed to do things. How could you stop them? If they have raise dead or revivify, they can attempt to raise her. Why would you try to stop them? Ditto preventing it. How or why would you stop their attempt?
An attempt should always be allowed. Not letting them even try is the worst kind of railroad. If they succeed will come down to their abilities, their plan and the dice, but you shouldn’t stop them trying.
I'm going to disagree here. Having an NPC execution in what is essentially a cutscene is not "the worst kind of railroad." It's really no different than the party arriving to find the NPC already dead. This is not a major plot junction, it's essentially exposition. Not every single aspect of the plot needs to be direct consequences of the PC's actions. It's part of what makes the world feel alive.
But of course you do scenes like this sparingly, and afterward the PCs should be allowed to do what they can to amend the situation - such as resurrecting the NPC in one way or another.
And just to add to what Appellion said, I'm one of those players who would not be cool with an 8 year old being killed for the purposes of drama. There are plenty of other ways to show someone has turned evil, including announcing the intention to sacrifice her for a ritual or giving a kill order to a subordinate or forcing her to eat a dog biscuit or something.
As an example, I tested to see what would happen if the Party were to fight Serena. It ended up looking like the following: Serena attacks the Party and deals a lot of damage over a long period of time. Party doesn't want to fight back...like...at all (Didn't help if they were not saying anything to her to try and calm Serena down). When one Party member suggest and attempted to knock Serena out, that Player got targeted and beaten by the entire Party for some reason.
Do you mean you actually talked about this with your players? Because I don't see how else you could have tested it and obtained those results.
Anyway, I agree with posts #3 and #4. If you really want to make it very hard if not impossible to revive the child, make sure the attack doesn't leave a body behind. You should also let the dice decide. It's against my philosophy as a DM to enact cutscenes with predetermined outcomes. If you plan on having Serena kill her sister, she has to do a proper attack roll.
Everyone makes some pretty good and valid points. I'm going to see what I can come up with from all these ideas. I'll ask another question if I come up with something else. Anything else I should keep in mind? Or does someone have an idea on what I could do?
What’s tripping me up is at the end where you ask if the party should be allowed to do things. How could you stop them? If they have raise dead or revivify, they can attempt to raise her. Why would you try to stop them? Ditto preventing it. How or why would you stop their attempt?
An attempt should always be allowed. Not letting them even try is the worst kind of railroad. If they succeed will come down to their abilities, their plan and the dice, but you shouldn’t stop them trying.
I'm going to disagree here. Having an NPC execution in what is essentially a cutscene is not "the worst kind of railroad." It's really no different than the party arriving to find the NPC already dead. This is not a major plot junction, it's essentially exposition. Not every single aspect of the plot needs to be direct consequences of the PC's actions. It's part of what makes the world feel alive.
But of course you do scenes like this sparingly, and afterward the PCs should be allowed to do what they can to amend the situation - such as resurrecting the NPC in one way or another.
And just to add to what Appellion said, I'm one of those players who would not be cool with an 8 year old being killed for the purposes of drama. There are plenty of other ways to show someone has turned evil, including announcing the intention to sacrifice her for a ritual or giving a kill order to a subordinate or forcing her to eat a dog biscuit or something.
I understand what you're saying, and I know there's plenty of folk who like a cutscene. I respect that choice, and the idea they can play any way they like, and I should have made that clearer. That said, let me explain my problem with cutscenes. Cutscenes work in video games, because it's not your story. No matter how many dialogue options you have, they're someone else's options. No matter how many endings the game might have, they're someone else's endings, and there's no way you can ever break out of the box. But D&D is everyone's story, and so everyone should get a chance to participate.
For example, in this scene, what if there's a divination wizard who wants to use that 1 they got on their portent roll to force Selena to miss when she goes to kill Nutmeg. Or one of the PC's happened to be stealthing in, and so Selena doesn't know they are there, and the player wants the character to cast vortex warp to get Nutmeg out of danger. Or before she finishes her sentence, the bugbear PC with the alert feat uses their reach and high initiative to shove Selena away. There's lots of examples of powers, spells, etc. that the PCs should be able to use if they're in the room while its happening. The characters shouldn't be passive observers who can't change the outcome of a situation. Otherwise, why bother putting them in such a situation?
That's also the difference when it comes to showing up to the room with the person already dead. They weren't there, so there was nothing they could have done. If they are there, they should be able to try to act. It's their story, too. Cutscenes are the DM saying, I need this to happen in exactly this way or my story falls apart, but its not the DM's story, its everyone's story, and the players should also have input into what happens.
Everyone makes some pretty good and valid points. I'm going to see what I can come up with from all these ideas. I'll ask another question if I come up with something else. Anything else I should keep in mind? Or does someone have an idea on what I could do?
Expect to be surprised. As Xalthu wrote, players creativity/character skills/will to try something desperate, can alter the scene - let them and reward them by going with the flow. *enter "improvise, adapt, overcome." meme here* creating tension in an other way. If the players still won't fight back, it probably will end in a TPK, but even then the players chose the outcome.
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I've been running a campaign for a while, and my Players are approaching the climax of the story. I will give a very quick and brief explanation of what I've got planned and what I may need help on.
At the end of the second to last arc, an 'evil' scientist will use the power of some artifacts to do what he believes is interdimensional travel. This is not the case as the gemstones are warping his sense of reality (or anyone's reality if they were in contact with these stones for too long). He will use these stones on a kidnapped NPC named Serena to transform her into something 'greater', as she has the most compatibility with them. (This NPC, Serena, is beloved by the Party. Going as far as one of them viewing her as a 'sister'.) Furthermore, Serena's sister is currently traveling with the Party now. When this transformation is completed, Serena's personality will have shifted toward a cruel, evil, and sadistic nature and her appearance will change.
Now at this point, I plan on having Serena attack and kill her sister in front of the Party if she is with them. To show that it is no longer the Serena they remember standing in front of them. On the alternative, the sister would be killed when she enters the combat area (The sister is 8yo and has 10HP total). I am mainly planning this because I am predicting that the Party may not want to fight her. I hope that this would be a huge red flag to them (because they are aware that Serena would kill an entire village for her sister). As an example, I tested to see what would happen if the Party were to fight Serena. It ended up looking like the following: Serena attacks the Party and deals a lot of damage over a long period of time. Party doesn't want to fight back...like...at all (Didn't help if they were not saying anything to her to try and calm Serena down). When one Party member suggest and attempted to knock Serena out, that Player got targeted and beaten by the entire Party for some reason.
What are your thoughts? Should the sister be killed because the Party won't fight? If the sister is killed, should the Party be allowed to attempt to bring her back? Should the Party be allowed to somehow prevent this from happening (Even if they have something in their arsenal to maybe prevent it)?
I’m still reading through the OP, but one thing caught my eye. Killing an elementary age kid in the game is something I really hope you have given fair warning to your party about. Many people would be extremely bothered by having this happen in a TTRPG, pairing it right up there with Sexual Assault by example. At one point I, as DM, was role playing the survivor of a vampire attack and basing my performance on how a **** survivor would act and talk. One of my players privately told me that while I did a good job in my portrayal (it wasn’t bad in the sense of tropes or misrepresentation ), the whole thing extremely bothered her. She did in fact not appear at the next session, and I had to do a lot of apologizing, rightly. This incident is what led me to start using consent form.
My Thoughts: I feel like having the little sister or other important NPC killed for shock value isn’t really necessary. For myself, I certainly support building the atmosphere even prior to seeing Serena, implying inhuman violence and unnatural quiet (or eerie whispering, the odd swinging chandelier, candles or torches that snuff themselves behind you never to relight). I also suggest - where possible as with all of this - maybe having a labyrinth of rooms and towering bookshelves surrounding the ritual room, with perhaps a series of crypts at the back. A blood smeared book provides incomplete steps towards reversing Serena’s condition, but notes potential long lasting side effects. A scrawled note suggest, “Too risky, best to kill her and be done!” Giving the players at least two options. If any of this sounds good, we can work out the potential reversal ritual.
BTW, Thanks for this, really got my creativity cooking. :)
Edit: For portraying the sudden change in Serena, possibly have her come up to a party member before lunging for their throat and then trying to drag them to an open crypt, bloody but still alive and kicking, like a dog with a bone. Have Serena use hit and run tactics, emphasizing she’ll just keep coming but allowing the party to process.
Supposing killing a child is not safety tool material, i would go that route and make it as dramatic as possible, having Serena attack her sister in furious anger for her betrayal while the party try to protect her. Eventually wether it succeed or not would be a matter of luck, leaving it to the dice to decide. But if the party has access to magic that can raise her back, i don't see why it shouldn't be possible.
What’s tripping me up is at the end where you ask if the party should be allowed to do things. How could you stop them? If they have raise dead or revivify, they can attempt to raise her. Why would you try to stop them? Ditto preventing it. How or why would you stop their attempt?
An attempt should always be allowed. Not letting them even try is the worst kind of railroad. If they succeed will come down to their abilities, their plan and the dice, but you shouldn’t stop them trying.
Also as an aside, an 8-year-old has 10 hp? That’s a tough kid. There’s lots of level 1 PCs walking around with less. Not to mention adult commoners.
Okay, those are some interesting ideas.
To reassure you, Appellion, I thought ahead and told all Party members what to expect at the beginning of the quest. Including the potential 'sensitive material/topics' that may appear based on their decisions. They agreed that they would be fine with all the topics that would be introduced. Your ideas on hit-and-run signs, that could work to signal to the Party they need to fight.
With your idea, Plaguescarred, I do like the idea of having the sister confront Serena. Furthermore, due to the sister being 8yo, she would not know entirely what is going on with Serena. The Party should definitely know something is wrong with Serena based on her appearance alone. From the sister's point of view, she is traveling with the Party to find Serena. The sister wants to find her sister to make sure she's safe. Effectively putting herself in harm's way. Did I get that right?
No, I don't plan on stopping them, Xalthu. I made it clear to the Party that they can try and do anything they want. I apologize if there was a miscommunication in my message. The problem is what happens after the deed is done. Without getting too much into as and explaining what has been going n in the campaign (As we would be here all day), I'll give you a very quick explanation of the stones being used and how they work.
To start off, the stones themselves messes with the flow of magic. Which will either cancel it out completely or cause it to go wild. (The Party is aware of this, as it has happened a number of times.) Next, there is an evil entity living inside the gemstones. This, the Party is not aware of. This entity is the one pulling the strings to everything in the campaign; as it is trying to escape its prison. If something is killed using the gemstone's energy, it is destroyed completely (though not immediately). If a creature is killed by it, the evil entity inside devours its soul. Killing off all chances of the creature being revived. This is something the Party is not aware of, however, it was suggested by some data logs they found.
If Serena is being supercharged by this energy (to the point of a mental breakdown into sadistic madness) and she kills a creature, would this have the same effect? As she will be in possession of all the gemstones (and technically being controlled like a puppet by the evil entity).
I understand, the little sister care for Serena's safety and will not fully understand what happened to her but will still want her well being when getting attacked by her. You said Serena's appearance will change, have you figured how? it's something i would put emphasis on to show her transformation, even slightly so, to demonstrate her new wickedness!
While you can certainly have the little sister* have 10 hit points if you want, just as reference a commoner has 4 hit points in comparison. I
*What's her name to better identify her?
Yeah, the sister's name is Nutmeg.
When it comes to Serena about her appearance, her hair color, eyes, and skin will be different. About her transformation happening in front of the Party, I can see what I can come up with. Do you have any suggestions on what I should do?
- Main points to keep in mind:
Evil Scientist transforms Serena into a 'Dark Form' (I don't have a name to call it, other than Dark Serena).
The party needs to fight Serena to prevent her from going on a rampage.
Nutmeg (Serena's sister) wants to help but doesn't understand what's going on. May die in the process.
I could see Serena next encountered with signs she is transformed by the evil scientific and for exemple show clear signs of molecular change such as plasma-like hair, eyes and gas breath flowing with phlogiston matter, the matter that exist between crystal spheres where D&D world co-exist to link to the interdimensional storyline. Phlogiston is rainbow-colored chaotic matter, very flammable fluid that permeated the space between the crystal spheres of the Prime Material Plane.
Ahh, that makes much more sense. It's not you stopping them, its an in-game mechanical effect that needs to be applied consistently. My mistake for jumping to a conclusion.
As for Dark Serena, did you ever watch Buffy when Willow turned evil? Give her black hair, dark eyes, and dress in a lot of black leather. Basically, assuming Serena is initially a good person who was corrupted, just make her look the opposite. Dark hair turns light, brown eyes turn blue, or vice versa. Drop her voice an octive or two. Or if you're not good with voices, describe it as deeper, and go with the classic movie/TV trope of it sounding like there are multiple creatures talking at the same time. Let her have visible veins in her skin, or something that looks like some kind of creeping fungus showing on her. Say she smells like sulfur or something. Or combine a few of these, depending on how obvious you want it to be. Or only use a couple, and then, if she escapes, you can layer on more effects when they encounter her again.
Does the party need to fight her? If it were me as a player, I'd want to try and save her. That's what heroes do. Something like a hold person followed by a greater restoration or remove curse, or a paladin's lay on hands to remove disease, or, honestly, trying all of the above, plus anything else I could think of. Or if not a magic, then doing nonlethal damage before trying to lift the curse. Is there a way they can save her from the gem's influence besides killing her? And is there a way for the party to know this before they encounter her?
Killing the child sister is maybe the wrong way to go, talking in absolutes. If the child sister confronts her, maybe then even telling your party openly "No, that's not Serena, that is something else." in Horror, let Serena fling the child aside, landing in an unmoving heap, then turn her attention to someone/something else, as if it doesn't matter in any shape or way. In my eyes that's crueler than simply killing her child sister off. (Also, it creates a tense moment in the party. Does she live? Is she dead? If the Players rush to help Serena can laugh at them and tell them how pathetic they are, to aggravate the players further.)
When the party realizes the child is hurt but still alive Serena can also go "Good, maybe i'll use/sacrifice/devour/whatever her pure little soul, later, after i've dealt with you pests..." if you want to hint at the "souleater" again, and makes them want to protect/rescue the child even if its against the not-Serena-anymore-thing. (letting her survive, if the players dont screw up totally. will give them a win even if they might have to kill Not-Serena)
For the Serena boss fight, I structured it in a way where when Serena hits 0 HP. The effect from the gemstones will be removed from her and she will fall unconscious. All the physical appearance changes will be reverted back to normal. (When she walks up too, her personality will go back to normal)
The reason why Serena is behaving the way she is is because of the overload of raw/chaotic/wild energy in her body. Currently, I have it in a way where when the Party attacks her, energy is violently expelled outward in the spot the Player hit. Once Serena hits 0 HP, all the energy is expelled from her and she passes out. Is there a spell that would possibly remove all of this excess energy early or quickly?
I do really like this scenario better than before. I will probably be doing this idea.
When it comes to the 'Soul-eating' thing. It is the evil entity within the gemstones that can do that. As the Party fights Serena, the BBEG will slowly be merging the gemstones together to make one big gem. Effectively allowing it to escape.
What are your thoughts on this thus far?
Merging the gems is good. Make it obvious that it’s happening, and let the PCs have a way to slow down the process. Then it becomes a tactical choice do they try to stop it, or focus on Selena? Hopefully they’ll try to stop it, which can siphon off a few actions from the PCs, helping even out the action economy to make the fight a little more dangerous and interesting. And I’d even allow it to merge if they do nothing and the fight goes on long enough. That can be a fail state where Selena is fully absorbed by the gems and now the BBEG is out.
And I’d make it harder than just knocking her out and it’s over. Feels a little too Hollywood ending for the big, climactic fight. Like knocking her out, then they maybe the spirit busts out a round later and they need to fight it (Like the monsters in the Theros books that basically have a 2-stage fight). Or they see the corruption slowly overtaking her, or reaching out for Nutmeg, and they need to stop it. Something where they defeat Selena, and breathe a sigh of relief, but then it turns out they’re not done.
If you really want to play up the drama, work in something where Selena apologizes to Nutmeg for hurting her as she’s passing out.
The thing I’d try and avoid (which you probably thought of, but in case you didn’t) is letting Selena sacrifice herself. You don’t want an NPC to be the big hero of the story.
I'm going to disagree here. Having an NPC execution in what is essentially a cutscene is not "the worst kind of railroad." It's really no different than the party arriving to find the NPC already dead. This is not a major plot junction, it's essentially exposition. Not every single aspect of the plot needs to be direct consequences of the PC's actions. It's part of what makes the world feel alive.
But of course you do scenes like this sparingly, and afterward the PCs should be allowed to do what they can to amend the situation - such as resurrecting the NPC in one way or another.
And just to add to what Appellion said, I'm one of those players who would not be cool with an 8 year old being killed for the purposes of drama. There are plenty of other ways to show someone has turned evil, including announcing the intention to sacrifice her for a ritual or giving a kill order to a subordinate or forcing her to eat a dog biscuit or something.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
That's a lot of hit points for a literal child. Adult commoners only have 1d8 hit points.
Do you mean you actually talked about this with your players? Because I don't see how else you could have tested it and obtained those results.
Anyway, I agree with posts #3 and #4. If you really want to make it very hard if not impossible to revive the child, make sure the attack doesn't leave a body behind. You should also let the dice decide. It's against my philosophy as a DM to enact cutscenes with predetermined outcomes. If you plan on having Serena kill her sister, she has to do a proper attack roll.
Age: 33 | Sex: Male | Languages: French and English | Roles: DM and Player
Everyone makes some pretty good and valid points. I'm going to see what I can come up with from all these ideas. I'll ask another question if I come up with something else. Anything else I should keep in mind? Or does someone have an idea on what I could do?
I understand what you're saying, and I know there's plenty of folk who like a cutscene. I respect that choice, and the idea they can play any way they like, and I should have made that clearer. That said, let me explain my problem with cutscenes. Cutscenes work in video games, because it's not your story. No matter how many dialogue options you have, they're someone else's options. No matter how many endings the game might have, they're someone else's endings, and there's no way you can ever break out of the box. But D&D is everyone's story, and so everyone should get a chance to participate.
For example, in this scene, what if there's a divination wizard who wants to use that 1 they got on their portent roll to force Selena to miss when she goes to kill Nutmeg. Or one of the PC's happened to be stealthing in, and so Selena doesn't know they are there, and the player wants the character to cast vortex warp to get Nutmeg out of danger. Or before she finishes her sentence, the bugbear PC with the alert feat uses their reach and high initiative to shove Selena away. There's lots of examples of powers, spells, etc. that the PCs should be able to use if they're in the room while its happening. The characters shouldn't be passive observers who can't change the outcome of a situation. Otherwise, why bother putting them in such a situation?
That's also the difference when it comes to showing up to the room with the person already dead. They weren't there, so there was nothing they could have done. If they are there, they should be able to try to act. It's their story, too. Cutscenes are the DM saying, I need this to happen in exactly this way or my story falls apart, but its not the DM's story, its everyone's story, and the players should also have input into what happens.
Expect to be surprised. As Xalthu wrote, players creativity/character skills/will to try something desperate, can alter the scene - let them and reward them by going with the flow. *enter "improvise, adapt, overcome." meme here* creating tension in an other way. If the players still won't fight back, it probably will end in a TPK, but even then the players chose the outcome.