So I haven't started DM'ing yet, but I am planning to eventually run some campaigns, and there's one aspect of the game I haven't made a decision on for whether I use rules as written or not - Essentially how much I want to make players track material components for spells
Alright so about everybody already knows that fluff materials like hair and bat poop are already handled by your component pouch or spell focus, and that the only time the focus doesn't cover the spell is if it has a gold cost. But not every spell that has an item with a noted value is consumed by the spell, meaning you get it once and it's good and covered. If it's only a one time cost, then why not only care about the gold focus on spells that consume the material? (Like Raise Dead) The acceptation to this being spells that have a super specific component for a reason (Like Scrying with needing some sort of reflective surface to peer at). I've talked to players that I plan to run a game for in the past and they all seemed like they would just quick spellcasters outright if I made them track their material components with gold cost, so is it better for everyone to just make them only care if it consumes the material? And at that point do I even make them go and find the material or just let them subtract from their gold cost each time? I want to keep a fair balance from what the rules intend but not make the players feel bogged down and wanna quit because "Where's your 50gp diamond for that Chromatic Orb?"
What I want is a DM who lets my arcane focus or spell component pouch work for material components that don’t have a GP cost listed and makes me track material components that do have a GP cost exactly as the rules are written. I tend to avoid spells that require material components most of the time, but that’s my choice.
Just make it possible to find or buy the expensive material components that they need for some spells. that doesn’t mean drop them into their laps, but make it so that they can find them somehow. Even if it takes a special adventure to find a smith who can make a gold encrusted idol for a spell and the smith makes them do something else before he’ll make the idol for their spell, make it possible.
There seems to be a big difference between wizard players and fighter players.
Wizard player: Why do I have to spend 100 gp on a pearl for identify? Can't I just have it? Can't you just bypass the rule and let me cast the spell for free? It's just a one-off cost and its anoying to have to track it on my character sheet.
Fighter player: 100 gp for a new hammer and shield? Done. *writes on character sheet*
Yes, I know I am exaggerating for comedy, but there is more than just a little truth to this.
Also, if a player isn't able (or willing) to track things like "spent 100 gp, gained one pearl", I wonder in the back of my mind how they are doing with other numbers on their character sheet. Numbers like Hit Points, Experience, Spell Slots…
As both a player and a DM, I think the gp-based components must be tracked properly and as written. These components are there to provide limitations to the spell. The writers of the rules designed the spell the way it works (its range, duration, area of effect, severity of effect) with this limitation in mind. If you eliminate that limitation, then you need to rebalance the spell in some way. If you don't rebalance the spell, and just cut the GP cost of the item out of the game entirely, then every spell with a GP cost just became immediately overpowered, because they can now be cast with impunity, rather than having to physically have a set of items with a specific and finite (and usually non-trivial for the level of the spell) cost.
It's similar to saying "Why track spell slots? Just let the wizard cast any spell on his list whenever it's his turn to go." Sure you can do that, and it would make the book-keeping easier, but mages have spell slots for a reason. Remove them from the game and it will cause an imbalance.
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We don’t track spell components, but mostly because my daughter is a PC, and that’s a level of complexity that I feel is unnecessary for a 7 year old in her first campaign. Maybe we will add that later.
I like tracking things because then the players are watching what is going on. It gives them a reason to plan some moves ahead instead of the instant gratification of we go there and we arrive, and nothing happened on the way.
I think spell components should be a party expense myself. When a caster casts a spell it is usually for the whole party's benefit. Some might say that about armor and weapons too, and to some extent they are correct, but I think it is safe to think of the things you wear and the weapons you carry as being personal property.
I also like tracking spell components because that can be a "plot hook" in itself. It would give a caster much happiness to stumble upon a small chest full of tiny bags of spell components.
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I appreciate the feedback from players and DM's alike here. Something I've been trying to consider in this is early level spells that require an item that isn't consumed but does have a gold cost. Like I mentioned Chromatic Orb requires a diamond worth 50gp which isn't as special as say some gold encrusted relic for some sort of more powerful spell. Is the proper way to handle that to just give the players the reward and access they need to these materials earlier? Like say a party starts at Level 3, I give them an easier encounter earlier that gets them some of the non-consumables they need for spells I know they'll be using regularly? I'm also wondering how much work I should make players do for finding certain items and how to make that exciting for them and not just a chore?
We don’t track spell components, but mostly because my daughter is a PC, and that’s a level of complexity that I feel is unnecessary for a 7 year old in her first campaign. Maybe we will add that later.
Obviously in a case like that, you don't need to worry about things like game balance.
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WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
I appreciate the feedback from players and DM's alike here. Something I've been trying to consider in this is early level spells that require an item that isn't consumed but does have a gold cost. Like I mentioned Chromatic Orb requires a diamond worth 50gp which isn't as special as say some gold encrusted relic for some sort of more powerful spell. Is the proper way to handle that to just give the players the reward and access they need to these materials earlier? Like say a party starts at Level 3, I give them an easier encounter earlier that gets them some of the non-consumables they need for spells I know they'll be using regularly? I'm also wondering how much work I should make players do for finding certain items and how to make that exciting for them and not just a chore?
Again, I appreciate all the feedback
I think at higher levels, I would assume the lower level spell components are already owned. I might make them pay for it... so let's say at level 3 you give the party X starting gold. Wizard boy gets X-50 if he wants to start with the component for Chromatic Orb. We assume they found it while adventuring.
For starting off at level 1, though, I would not, and did not, just give it to them. In fact my friend who plays a sorcerer in my game tried to argue with me that somehow it is "standard practice" to assume all characters "just have" the various components, including expensive ones, of their starting spells. I said no to that -- because, I think you want to have a story about those spell components. The diamond he came across, at level 2, was taken from the finger of the goblin chief that he killed with a chaos bolt crit. One-shotted it. That isn't just a component now. It's a memory. I think that's how these things should work. The diamonds you have for revivify are the ones you found in the mummy's tomb, or the king's treasure, or what have you. They mean something. They're not "just" spell components.
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WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
I appreciate the feedback from players and DM's alike here. Something I've been trying to consider in this is early level spells that require an item that isn't consumed but does have a gold cost. Like I mentioned Chromatic Orb requires a diamond worth 50gp which isn't as special as say some gold encrusted relic for some sort of more powerful spell. Is the proper way to handle that to just give the players the reward and access they need to these materials earlier? Like say a party starts at Level 3, I give them an easier encounter earlier that gets them some of the non-consumables they need for spells I know they'll be using regularly? I'm also wondering how much work I should make players do for finding certain items and how to make that exciting for them and not just a chore?
Again, I appreciate all the feedback
I think at higher levels, I would assume the lower level spell components are already owned. I might make them pay for it... so let's say at level 3 you give the party X starting gold. Wizard boy gets X-50 if he wants to start with the component for Chromatic Orb. We assume they found it while adventuring.
For starting off at level 1, though, I would not, and did not, just give it to them. In fact my friend who plays a sorcerer in my game tried to argue with me that somehow it is "standard practice" to assume all characters "just have" the various components, including expensive ones, of their starting spells. I said no to that -- because, I think you want to have a story about those spell components. The diamond he came across, at level 2, was taken from the finger of the goblin chief that he killed with a chaos bolt crit. One-shotted it. That isn't just a component now. It's a memory. I think that's how these things should work. The diamonds you have for revivify are the ones you found in the mummy's tomb, or the king's treasure, or what have you. They mean something. They're not "just" spell components.
This seems like an actually really cool approach to it. You keep the balance of gold cost on spells while making things engaging and fun for the players. Thank you!
What I want is a DM who lets my arcane focus or spell component pouch work for material components that don’t have a GP cost listed and makes me track material components that do have a GP cost exactly as the rules are written. I tend to avoid spells that require material components most of the time, but that’s my choice.
Just make it possible to find or buy the expensive material components that they need for some spells. that doesn’t mean drop them into their laps, but make it so that they can find them somehow. Even if it takes a special adventure to find a smith who can make a gold encrusted idol for a spell and the smith makes them do something else before he’ll make the idol for their spell, make it possible.
This would best describe my style as a DM. I like it when the players use the component information to add to the flair of the game, but am not concerned if they actually have the piece of sheep's fluff or not otherwise. 100g pearl on the other hand must be in their possession or discovered so the spell caster can say, "I will need that pearl if you'd like that identified." Adds more to the game in my opinion. Or a player in a current campaign pulls the rose from her hair and uses it as a component for the Thorn Whip for instance. Give inspiration for flairs like that.
What I want is a DM who lets my arcane focus or spell component pouch work for material components that don’t have a GP cost listed and makes me track material components that do have a GP cost exactly as the rules are written. I tend to avoid spells that require material components most of the time, but that’s my choice.
Just make it possible to find or buy the expensive material components that they need for some spells. that doesn’t mean drop them into their laps, but make it so that they can find them somehow. Even if it takes a special adventure to find a smith who can make a gold encrusted idol for a spell and the smith makes them do something else before he’ll make the idol for their spell, make it possible.
This would best describe my style as a DM. I like it when the players use the component information to add to the flair of the game, but am not concerned if they actually have the piece of sheep's fluff or not otherwise. 100g pearl on the other hand must be in their possession or discovered so the spell caster can say, "I will need that pearl if you'd like that identified." Adds more to the game in my opinion. Or a player in a current campaign pulls the rose from her hair and uses it as a component for the Thorn Whip for instance. Give inspiration for flairs like that.
I actually enjoy role playing some of the mundane material components.
”I reach down into the snow and pick some of it up. I hold it in my hand to melt it and throw the water up in the air casting.....” for a spell where the material components is a drop of water is fun for example!
Cleric in my party has Clairvoyance. Needed a jeweled horn and a glass eye. They were in a port town with somewhat of a trade market, so I had him roll investigation. He found someone selling glass eyes, so he has one of those, but she didn't have a jeweled horn. (I think I said if he beat the DC by some amount she would have both, but he did not.)
In the next adventure, I had it prepped for them to fight a Matt Colville -designed Gemstone Dragon on the Astral Plane. Because they are encrusted in gems (in this case sapphires) and have various horns, I decided that if they killed it, I would let the cleric make a roll to notice that one of the horns was gem-encrusted and might count as a jeweled horn. I figured that would be a cool souvenir.
Unfortunately for him, they chose to negotiate with the dragon rather than kill it, so he never did find his horn. Yet. (Something like it may exist in another treasure somewhere else, but I won't say any more in case my players read this post....)
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WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
Cleric in my party has Clairvoyance. Needed a jeweled horn and a glass eye. They were in a port town with somewhat of a trade market, so I had him roll investigation. He found someone selling glass eyes, so he has one of those, but she didn't have a jeweled horn. (I think I said if he beat the DC by some amount she would have both, but he did not.)
In the next adventure, I had it prepped for them to fight a Matt Colville -designed Gemstone Dragon on the Astral Plane. Because they are encrusted in gems (in this case sapphires) and have various horns, I decided that if they killed it, I would let the cleric make a roll to notice that one of the horns was gem-encrusted and might count as a jeweled horn. I figured that would be a cool souvenir.
Unfortunately for him, they chose to negotiate with the dragon rather than kill it, so he never did find his horn. Yet. (Something like it may exist in another treasure somewhere else, but I won't say any more in case my players read this post....)
I was fully expecting you to say they stole some old sailor's glass eye like Groot stealing the leg
Tl:dr material spell components are literally a matter of play, but don't assign them too much gravity. Relax and work with those literal fine print rules with your players for the good of the game you're trying to achieve.
So maybe to start with the Fighter "I'll pay good coin for armor" vs Wizard "I won't pay good coin simply for components" admitted broadside, it's a little more nuanced if you take take into account spell components are fragile, smaller than trinkets in many instances. PCs go through the the gristmill on the regular, forged equipment like armor and tools is built to survive that, but pouches, or a system of pouches designed to differentiate what's what? That is some robust pouching. PCs are captured by people who know what they're doing and stripped of offensive capability. Fighters are stripped of weapons and armor, Wizard is bound and gagged (the other two big components) maybe even blindfolded and the component pouch is dumped then and there, anything of valued divided up by the initial captors. Yes, jail break can happen and the sword and armor can be recovered, but the spell components, a lot of it is literally scatter at the scene of capture and the rest of it's been scattered among the initials and likely spread about to who knows through gambling or even legit commerce.
The fragility and integrity of spell components is problematic in a "hard core" RAW insistence. I'm ambivalent because I don't want to deny Wizards their cool and spell slots are a decent restraint already. Way I usually do it, and this is not a formal system, is assume the initial components for a spell early in the Wizard's understanding of it are largely "tutorial" in drawing magic through the weave. Over time, a Wizard is able to get past that crutch, so wizards of a certain level can sort of disregard the stated component. It's DM hand waived as the Wizard having figured out a number of material equivalencies (sort of cognitive alchemy, "I know this will work in place of this for this spell" which can sort of be a creative side game in itself almost like Cockney rhyming slang but magic) or maybe even the Wizard has touched that magic so much they don't need material keys since the act is almost in their blood at that point (possibly where some sorcerer bloodlines come from). Serious value components, diamonds and the like will always be necessary or require an equally costly and rarity equivalent.
I'm even moreso in this regard with Divine magic, since I still see it as "answered prayers." Yes there are some costly ones, and the requirement depends on from god to god. One can say variances are allowed because at least the more cynical gods can grant indulgences (from either the caster or the recipient requesting the magically divine intercession). Oddly though, maybe for flavor, I like Druids using material components as it resembles sort of fetishes symbolizing a conduit between "nature" and spell caster.
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Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Cleric in my party has Clairvoyance. Needed a jeweled horn and a glass eye. They were in a port town with somewhat of a trade market, so I had him roll investigation. He found someone selling glass eyes, so he has one of those, but she didn't have a jeweled horn. (I think I said if he beat the DC by some amount she would have both, but he did not.)
In the next adventure, I had it prepped for them to fight a Matt Colville -designed Gemstone Dragon on the Astral Plane. Because they are encrusted in gems (in this case sapphires) and have various horns, I decided that if they killed it, I would let the cleric make a roll to notice that one of the horns was gem-encrusted and might count as a jeweled horn. I figured that would be a cool souvenir.
Unfortunately for him, they chose to negotiate with the dragon rather than kill it, so he never did find his horn. Yet. (Something like it may exist in another treasure somewhere else, but I won't say any more in case my players read this post....)
I was fully expecting you to say they stole some old sailor's glass eye like Groot stealing the leg
I was totally there too - would be a great quest for a rogue/similar to get tasked with by a wizard trying to cast this spell...hmmm
What I want is a DM who lets my arcane focus or spell component pouch work for material components that don’t have a GP cost listed and makes me track material components that do have a GP cost exactly as the rules are written. I tend to avoid spells that require material components most of the time, but that’s my choice.
Just make it possible to find or buy the expensive material components that they need for some spells. that doesn’t mean drop them into their laps, but make it so that they can find them somehow. Even if it takes a special adventure to find a smith who can make a gold encrusted idol for a spell and the smith makes them do something else before he’ll make the idol for their spell, make it possible.
This would best describe my style as a DM. I like it when the players use the component information to add to the flair of the game, but am not concerned if they actually have the piece of sheep's fluff or not otherwise. 100g pearl on the other hand must be in their possession or discovered so the spell caster can say, "I will need that pearl if you'd like that identified." Adds more to the game in my opinion. Or a player in a current campaign pulls the rose from her hair and uses it as a component for the Thorn Whip for instance. Give inspiration for flairs like that.
Winning these components in battle is all well and good, and certainly does make for good stories and memories. Everyone has a one-off example of how that was a cool thing in their campaign. But how many times did you do that? Did you side quest for every single named component? Did you characters learn spells and then sit twiddling their thumbs until they tripped over the right component for it?
In a way many of these components are a hard gate on a character choice imposed by the DM. In other words, a character can't use a feature they chose until the DM gives them the thing required to use it. Or maybe the DM gives them the component and then they feel pressured to take the spell to make use of it. I'm not saying that's a Bad Thing And Should Never Be Done, but I definitely understand the folks who would just rather not choose those spells when they can cast other spells with no restriction. My Order of Scribes wizard who would absolutely love Glyph of Warding and even already has an enemy spellbook with it has not spent the money to copy it because he's just too poor to ever use it, even at level 8.
Chromatic orb is the best example of arbitrary costs - it's not really any better than any other level 1 spell. Catapult does the same damage. Several other spells do slightly less with some additional effect or bonus. Early on, you're not encountering a lot of things with type vulnerabilities to exploit. So it simply becomes a non-option at level one. I don't know, I don't think the component really adds anything to the game in that case.
Regardless, although some of the costs are totally arbitrary, others are required for balance so throwing out the whole system is not a great idea. So I stick with it, but I'm grumpy about it.
What I want is a DM who lets my arcane focus or spell component pouch work for material components that don’t have a GP cost listed and makes me track material components that do have a GP cost exactly as the rules are written. I tend to avoid spells that require material components most of the time, but that’s my choice.
Just make it possible to find or buy the expensive material components that they need for some spells. that doesn’t mean drop them into their laps, but make it so that they can find them somehow. Even if it takes a special adventure to find a smith who can make a gold encrusted idol for a spell and the smith makes them do something else before he’ll make the idol for their spell, make it possible.
This would best describe my style as a DM. I like it when the players use the component information to add to the flair of the game, but am not concerned if they actually have the piece of sheep's fluff or not otherwise. 100g pearl on the other hand must be in their possession or discovered so the spell caster can say, "I will need that pearl if you'd like that identified." Adds more to the game in my opinion. Or a player in a current campaign pulls the rose from her hair and uses it as a component for the Thorn Whip for instance. Give inspiration for flairs like that.
Winning these components in battle is all well and good, and certainly does make for good stories and memories. Everyone has a one-off example of how that was a cool thing in their campaign. But how many times did you do that? Did you side quest for every single named component? Did you characters learn spells and then sit twiddling their thumbs until they tripped over the right component for it?
In a way many of these components are a hard gate on a character choice imposed by the DM. In other words, a character can't use a feature they chose until the DM gives them the thing required to use it. Or maybe the DM gives them the component and then they feel pressured to take the spell to make use of it. I'm not saying that's a Bad Thing And Should Never Be Done, but I definitely understand the folks who would just rather not choose those spells when they can cast other spells with no restriction. My Order of Scribes wizard who would absolutely love Glyph of Warding and even already has an enemy spellbook with it has not spent the money to copy it because he's just too poor to ever use it, even at level 8.
Chromatic orb is the best example of arbitrary costs - it's not really any better than any other level 1 spell. Catapult does the same damage. Several other spells do slightly less with some additional effect or bonus. Early on, you're not encountering a lot of things with type vulnerabilities to exploit. So it simply becomes a non-option at level one. I don't know, I don't think the component really adds anything to the game in that case.
Regardless, although some of the costs are totally arbitrary, others are required for balance so throwing out the whole system is not a great idea. So I stick with it, but I'm grumpy about it.
I absolutely see what you are saying here and would say, if it takes away from the fun of the game, don’t do it. It’s a game and if something makes it feel like work it’s no fun. Get a feel for your group of players. For me the point of components are to keep a balance. For instance, separately I personally throw out the DEX save attempt on a creature that is already hit by a spell because in my mind they already failed that by being hit. Set your own rules on components but keep it consistent for the whole group so you keep the balance and hopefully early on. If a player presents a good argument, consider it. Give inspiration even. You are the referee, the dungeon master. Just a foundation to build on. Use your power to make it fun
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So I haven't started DM'ing yet, but I am planning to eventually run some campaigns, and there's one aspect of the game I haven't made a decision on for whether I use rules as written or not - Essentially how much I want to make players track material components for spells
Alright so about everybody already knows that fluff materials like hair and bat poop are already handled by your component pouch or spell focus, and that the only time the focus doesn't cover the spell is if it has a gold cost. But not every spell that has an item with a noted value is consumed by the spell, meaning you get it once and it's good and covered. If it's only a one time cost, then why not only care about the gold focus on spells that consume the material? (Like Raise Dead) The acceptation to this being spells that have a super specific component for a reason (Like Scrying with needing some sort of reflective surface to peer at). I've talked to players that I plan to run a game for in the past and they all seemed like they would just quick spellcasters outright if I made them track their material components with gold cost, so is it better for everyone to just make them only care if it consumes the material? And at that point do I even make them go and find the material or just let them subtract from their gold cost each time? I want to keep a fair balance from what the rules intend but not make the players feel bogged down and wanna quit because "Where's your 50gp diamond for that Chromatic Orb?"
Speaking as a player instead of as a DM.....
What I want is a DM who lets my arcane focus or spell component pouch work for material components that don’t have a GP cost listed and makes me track material components that do have a GP cost exactly as the rules are written. I tend to avoid spells that require material components most of the time, but that’s my choice.
Just make it possible to find or buy the expensive material components that they need for some spells. that doesn’t mean drop them into their laps, but make it so that they can find them somehow. Even if it takes a special adventure to find a smith who can make a gold encrusted idol for a spell and the smith makes them do something else before he’ll make the idol for their spell, make it possible.
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There seems to be a big difference between wizard players and fighter players.
Wizard player: Why do I have to spend 100 gp on a pearl for identify? Can't I just have it? Can't you just bypass the rule and let me cast the spell for free? It's just a one-off cost and its anoying to have to track it on my character sheet.
Fighter player: 100 gp for a new hammer and shield? Done. *writes on character sheet*
Yes, I know I am exaggerating for comedy, but there is more than just a little truth to this.
Also, if a player isn't able (or willing) to track things like "spent 100 gp, gained one pearl", I wonder in the back of my mind how they are doing with other numbers on their character sheet. Numbers like Hit Points, Experience, Spell Slots…
As both a player and a DM, I think the gp-based components must be tracked properly and as written. These components are there to provide limitations to the spell. The writers of the rules designed the spell the way it works (its range, duration, area of effect, severity of effect) with this limitation in mind. If you eliminate that limitation, then you need to rebalance the spell in some way. If you don't rebalance the spell, and just cut the GP cost of the item out of the game entirely, then every spell with a GP cost just became immediately overpowered, because they can now be cast with impunity, rather than having to physically have a set of items with a specific and finite (and usually non-trivial for the level of the spell) cost.
It's similar to saying "Why track spell slots? Just let the wizard cast any spell on his list whenever it's his turn to go." Sure you can do that, and it would make the book-keeping easier, but mages have spell slots for a reason. Remove them from the game and it will cause an imbalance.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
We don’t track spell components, but mostly because my daughter is a PC, and that’s a level of complexity that I feel is unnecessary for a 7 year old in her first campaign. Maybe we will add that later.
I like tracking things because then the players are watching what is going on. It gives them a reason to plan some moves ahead instead of the instant gratification of we go there and we arrive, and nothing happened on the way.
I think spell components should be a party expense myself. When a caster casts a spell it is usually for the whole party's benefit. Some might say that about armor and weapons too, and to some extent they are correct, but I think it is safe to think of the things you wear and the weapons you carry as being personal property.
I also like tracking spell components because that can be a "plot hook" in itself. It would give a caster much happiness to stumble upon a small chest full of tiny bags of spell components.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
I appreciate the feedback from players and DM's alike here. Something I've been trying to consider in this is early level spells that require an item that isn't consumed but does have a gold cost. Like I mentioned Chromatic Orb requires a diamond worth 50gp which isn't as special as say some gold encrusted relic for some sort of more powerful spell. Is the proper way to handle that to just give the players the reward and access they need to these materials earlier? Like say a party starts at Level 3, I give them an easier encounter earlier that gets them some of the non-consumables they need for spells I know they'll be using regularly? I'm also wondering how much work I should make players do for finding certain items and how to make that exciting for them and not just a chore?
Again, I appreciate all the feedback
Obviously in a case like that, you don't need to worry about things like game balance.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
I think at higher levels, I would assume the lower level spell components are already owned. I might make them pay for it... so let's say at level 3 you give the party X starting gold. Wizard boy gets X-50 if he wants to start with the component for Chromatic Orb. We assume they found it while adventuring.
For starting off at level 1, though, I would not, and did not, just give it to them. In fact my friend who plays a sorcerer in my game tried to argue with me that somehow it is "standard practice" to assume all characters "just have" the various components, including expensive ones, of their starting spells. I said no to that -- because, I think you want to have a story about those spell components. The diamond he came across, at level 2, was taken from the finger of the goblin chief that he killed with a chaos bolt crit. One-shotted it. That isn't just a component now. It's a memory. I think that's how these things should work. The diamonds you have for revivify are the ones you found in the mummy's tomb, or the king's treasure, or what have you. They mean something. They're not "just" spell components.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
RaW on this one.
If you are tracking weight or wealth, track spell components. If you're handwaving a lot of stuff, spell components can be added to it.
This seems like an actually really cool approach to it. You keep the balance of gold cost on spells while making things engaging and fun for the players. Thank you!
This would best describe my style as a DM. I like it when the players use the component information to add to the flair of the game, but am not concerned if they actually have the piece of sheep's fluff or not otherwise. 100g pearl on the other hand must be in their possession or discovered so the spell caster can say, "I will need that pearl if you'd like that identified." Adds more to the game in my opinion. Or a player in a current campaign pulls the rose from her hair and uses it as a component for the Thorn Whip for instance. Give inspiration for flairs like that.
I actually enjoy role playing some of the mundane material components.
”I reach down into the snow and pick some of it up. I hold it in my hand to melt it and throw the water up in the air casting.....” for a spell where the material components is a drop of water is fun for example!
Professional computer geek
Another spell component story...
Cleric in my party has Clairvoyance. Needed a jeweled horn and a glass eye. They were in a port town with somewhat of a trade market, so I had him roll investigation. He found someone selling glass eyes, so he has one of those, but she didn't have a jeweled horn. (I think I said if he beat the DC by some amount she would have both, but he did not.)
In the next adventure, I had it prepped for them to fight a Matt Colville -designed Gemstone Dragon on the Astral Plane. Because they are encrusted in gems (in this case sapphires) and have various horns, I decided that if they killed it, I would let the cleric make a roll to notice that one of the horns was gem-encrusted and might count as a jeweled horn. I figured that would be a cool souvenir.
Unfortunately for him, they chose to negotiate with the dragon rather than kill it, so he never did find his horn. Yet. (Something like it may exist in another treasure somewhere else, but I won't say any more in case my players read this post....)
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
I was fully expecting you to say they stole some old sailor's glass eye like Groot stealing the leg
Tl:dr material spell components are literally a matter of play, but don't assign them too much gravity. Relax and work with those literal fine print rules with your players for the good of the game you're trying to achieve.
So maybe to start with the Fighter "I'll pay good coin for armor" vs Wizard "I won't pay good coin simply for components" admitted broadside, it's a little more nuanced if you take take into account spell components are fragile, smaller than trinkets in many instances. PCs go through the the gristmill on the regular, forged equipment like armor and tools is built to survive that, but pouches, or a system of pouches designed to differentiate what's what? That is some robust pouching. PCs are captured by people who know what they're doing and stripped of offensive capability. Fighters are stripped of weapons and armor, Wizard is bound and gagged (the other two big components) maybe even blindfolded and the component pouch is dumped then and there, anything of valued divided up by the initial captors. Yes, jail break can happen and the sword and armor can be recovered, but the spell components, a lot of it is literally scatter at the scene of capture and the rest of it's been scattered among the initials and likely spread about to who knows through gambling or even legit commerce.
The fragility and integrity of spell components is problematic in a "hard core" RAW insistence. I'm ambivalent because I don't want to deny Wizards their cool and spell slots are a decent restraint already. Way I usually do it, and this is not a formal system, is assume the initial components for a spell early in the Wizard's understanding of it are largely "tutorial" in drawing magic through the weave. Over time, a Wizard is able to get past that crutch, so wizards of a certain level can sort of disregard the stated component. It's DM hand waived as the Wizard having figured out a number of material equivalencies (sort of cognitive alchemy, "I know this will work in place of this for this spell" which can sort of be a creative side game in itself almost like Cockney rhyming slang but magic) or maybe even the Wizard has touched that magic so much they don't need material keys since the act is almost in their blood at that point (possibly where some sorcerer bloodlines come from). Serious value components, diamonds and the like will always be necessary or require an equally costly and rarity equivalent.
I'm even moreso in this regard with Divine magic, since I still see it as "answered prayers." Yes there are some costly ones, and the requirement depends on from god to god. One can say variances are allowed because at least the more cynical gods can grant indulgences (from either the caster or the recipient requesting the magically divine intercession). Oddly though, maybe for flavor, I like Druids using material components as it resembles sort of fetishes symbolizing a conduit between "nature" and spell caster.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
I was totally there too - would be a great quest for a rogue/similar to get tasked with by a wizard trying to cast this spell...hmmm
Winning these components in battle is all well and good, and certainly does make for good stories and memories. Everyone has a one-off example of how that was a cool thing in their campaign. But how many times did you do that? Did you side quest for every single named component? Did you characters learn spells and then sit twiddling their thumbs until they tripped over the right component for it?
In a way many of these components are a hard gate on a character choice imposed by the DM. In other words, a character can't use a feature they chose until the DM gives them the thing required to use it. Or maybe the DM gives them the component and then they feel pressured to take the spell to make use of it. I'm not saying that's a Bad Thing And Should Never Be Done, but I definitely understand the folks who would just rather not choose those spells when they can cast other spells with no restriction. My Order of Scribes wizard who would absolutely love Glyph of Warding and even already has an enemy spellbook with it has not spent the money to copy it because he's just too poor to ever use it, even at level 8.
Chromatic orb is the best example of arbitrary costs - it's not really any better than any other level 1 spell. Catapult does the same damage. Several other spells do slightly less with some additional effect or bonus. Early on, you're not encountering a lot of things with type vulnerabilities to exploit. So it simply becomes a non-option at level one. I don't know, I don't think the component really adds anything to the game in that case.
Regardless, although some of the costs are totally arbitrary, others are required for balance so throwing out the whole system is not a great idea. So I stick with it, but I'm grumpy about it.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
I absolutely see what you are saying here and would say, if it takes away from the fun of the game, don’t do it. It’s a game and if something makes it feel like work it’s no fun. Get a feel for your group of players. For me the point of components are to keep a balance. For instance, separately I personally throw out the DEX save attempt on a creature that is already hit by a spell because in my mind they already failed that by being hit. Set your own rules on components but keep it consistent for the whole group so you keep the balance and hopefully early on. If a player presents a good argument, consider it. Give inspiration even. You are the referee, the dungeon master. Just a foundation to build on. Use your power to make it fun