The chances of there ever being a tabaxi PC in my game is zero, dude. I play with a bunch of guys in their 50s. They have no idea what a tabaxi even is!
If they played back in the day then the default setting was probably Mystara back then. Just tell them Tabaxi = Rakasta, they’ll pro’ly get that.
Greyhawk for the over 50s, not Mystara (wherever that is).
Lets look at an example of a broken race/class and how to fix them, the Tabaxi Swashbuckler.
-Tabaxi base movement 30 feet and can use claws to move on walls at 30 feet.
-Tabaxi racial can double their movement but must remain still for one turn to get it back. Tabaxi new movement 60 feet.
-Rogue 2nd level get cunning action, as a bonus action can dash. Tabaxi new movement 120 feet.
-Swashbuckler 3rd level gets fancy footfoot, take an attack against an opponent and they can't make an opportunity attack against them. 120 feet movement and no opportunity attack from one opponent.
How is 120' of movement every other round broken? There is only so much movement per round that is going to be useful. Any rogue can do this (well, really, any class can...) with the Mobile feat (without the 120' movement, but if Rogue, they get to double move as well).
They can easily run up to a mage at distance, slicey/dicey and get out. If they have haste, which is what my party does for him, its now at 240 feet of movement. And I do use large maps where movement is very useful, and encounters can start in the 200 feet range outdoors. I do not use theater of mind, which would greatly minimize the effects of movement. To each their own, it becomes self evident of the issue as you play that combo and a person is a good tactician.
Well if you're giving them an environment where they can benefit from long distances then of course the PCs are going to have an easy time using this tactic.
Low level magic users in 5e are extremely weak compared to pretty much every other edition.
Low level is weak? Have you actually played other editions? They've certainly toned down high level scaling, but low level magic users in prior editions were super pathetic.
Think about the games you DM, you ever noticed campaigns are melees and a cleric more times than the more balanced party? And then the party hits level 5, and one of the players wants to retire their character and pick up a sorcerer? Just saying, its happens a lot. The new super abilities put in for 5E, has greatly boosted melees early on. Its not that wizards are weak, its that they went a wee bit overboard on melees early on. Melee's early on were better than Wizards, looking at Gygax's design philosophy on linear fighters and quadratic wizards, he tried to slow them down because well its a wizard, they should be game breaking at higher levels compared to a guy with an axe. Its just compared to older editions the super hero 5E is a bit over the top.
Mystara is a campaign setting for the Dungeons & Dragonsfantasyrole playing game. It was the default setting for the "Basic" version of the game throughout the 1980s and 1990s. Most adventures published for the "Basic" edition of D&D take place in "The Known World", a central continent that includes a varied patchwork of both human and non-human realms. The human realms are based on various real-world historical cultures. In addition, unlike other D&D settings, Mystara had ascended immortal beings instead of gods.
Greyhawk was the default setting for AD&D, Mystara was eventually ported to AD&D in 2e.
Think about the games you DM, you ever noticed campaigns are melees and a cleric more times than the more balanced party? And then the party hits level 5, and one of the players wants to retire their character and pick up a sorcerer? Just saying, its happens a lot. The new super abilities put in for 5E, has greatly boosted melees early on. Its not that wizards are weak, its that they went a wee bit overboard on melees early on. Melee's early on were better than Wizards, looking at Gygax's design philosophy on linear fighters and quadratic wizards, he tried to slow them down because well its a wizard, they should be game breaking at higher levels compared to a guy with an axe. Its just compared to older editions the super hero 5E is a bit over the top.
I think that says more about your "hive of power gamers" than the general population of players. Our group tends to stay with the same characters from level 1, and usually represent a wide range of classes.
Cantrips are quite often the best option for low level casters - it lets them remain a caster at low levels, whereas in 3E and earlier editions they'd have to switch to a physical weapon after an encounter or two.
The chances of there ever being a tabaxi PC in my game is zero, dude. I play with a bunch of guys in their 50s. They have no idea what a tabaxi even is!
If they played back in the day then the default setting was probably Mystara back then. Just tell them Tabaxi = Rakasta, they’ll pro’ly get that.
Greyhawk for the over 50s, not Mystara (wherever that is).
Think about the games you DM, you ever noticed campaigns are melees and a cleric more times than the more balanced party? And then the party hits level 5, and one of the players wants to retire their character and pick up a sorcerer? Just saying, its happens a lot.
Melee's early on were better than Wizards, looking at Gygax's design philosophy on linear fighters and quadratic wizards, he tried to slow them down because well its a wizard, they should be game breaking at higher levels compared to a guy with an axe.
Lets look at an example of a broken race/class and how to fix them, the Tabaxi Swashbuckler.
-Tabaxi base movement 30 feet and can use claws to move on walls at 30 feet.
-Tabaxi racial can double their movement but must remain still for one turn to get it back. Tabaxi new movement 60 feet.
-Rogue 2nd level get cunning action, as a bonus action can dash. Tabaxi new movement 120 feet.
-Swashbuckler 3rd level gets fancy footfoot, take an attack against an opponent and they can't make an opportunity attack against them. 120 feet movement and no opportunity attack from one opponent.
If you think that's broken, get a load of this!
- Get a longbow and shoot someone from 150 feet away.
That's it. That's all your tabaxi does - poorly replicate a ranged attack by combining several other resources. Being complicated or synergistic is not the same as being overpowered.
The chances of there ever being a tabaxi PC in my game is zero, dude. I play with a bunch of guys in their 50s. They have no idea what a tabaxi even is!
I am 53 and I know that a Tabaxi is a cat race. But I do instantly think - isn't roleplaying a cat humanoid some kind of perverted thing that happens in an entirely different kind of dungeon?
Lets look at an example of a broken race/class and how to fix them, the Tabaxi Swashbuckler.
-Tabaxi base movement 30 feet and can use claws to move on walls at 30 feet.
-Tabaxi racial can double their movement but must remain still for one turn to get it back. Tabaxi new movement 60 feet.
-Rogue 2nd level get cunning action, as a bonus action can dash. Tabaxi new movement 120 feet.
-Swashbuckler 3rd level gets fancy footfoot, take an attack against an opponent and they can't make an opportunity attack against them. 120 feet movement and no opportunity attack from one opponent.
If you think that's broken, get a load of this!
- Get a longbow and shoot someone from 150 feet away.
That's it. That's all your tabaxi does - poorly replicate a ranged attack by combining several other resources. Being complicated or synergistic is not the same as being overpowered.
You do understand a rogue gets one attack with a bow and can miss, meanwhile a tabaxi rogue dual wielding gets two shots to sneak attack right? There is a flaw in your logic here.
You do understand a rogue gets one attack with a bow and can miss, meanwhile a tabaxi rogue dual wielding gets two shots to sneak attack right? There is a flaw in your logic here.
The rogue is using his bonus action for cunning action, so no offhand attack is occurring.
Feline agility is a free action. Swashbuckler allows you to make an attack and an opportunity attack can't be made against the character. Dual wielding attacks as a swash allows them to move through two characters with no chance of reprisal. Its a broken mix, haven't you DM'd it before?
Feline agility is a free action. Swashbuckler allows you to make an attack and an opportunity attack can't be made against the character. Dual wielding attacks as a swash allows them to move through two characters with no chance of reprisal. Its a broken mix, haven't you DM'd it before?
Using cunning action to dash is not a free action. I haven't run into that particular combo in play, but I can math out its damage potential just fine and it's... underwhelming. There's monsters that can't deal with it, but they're mostly the same monsters that can't deal with being kited by ranged attackers.
Feline agility is a free action. Swashbuckler allows you to make an attack and an opportunity attack can't be made against the character. Dual wielding attacks as a swash allows them to move through two characters with no chance of reprisal. Its a broken mix, haven't you DM'd it before?
Using cunning action to dash is not a free action. I haven't run into that particular combo in play, but I can math out its damage potential just fine and it's... underwhelming. There's monsters that can't deal with it, but they're mostly the same monsters that can't deal with being kited by ranged attackers.
Its just how tabaxi work with swashbuckler, its a common build. The rogue only gets one attack and if they miss, they lose sneak attack, so they dual wield to get two attacks. Feline Agility is free to use and doubles movement, Tabaxi now moves 60 feet. The swashbuckler allows them to make an attack (it doesn't have to hit and they can't opportunity attack). They can move 60' to the target, attack twice, and not get an opportunity attack reprisal. They basically can slice and dice a caster out of the game round 1 fairly easily. Worse if you gave them access to poison or magic items that add damage. It's all done so they can get two chances at a sneak attack than one. Swash's also get sneak attack if there are no allies within 5' of them. Its why they go tabaxi and dual wield. At 30' feet movement its still bad, but its likely the rogue who did that will be surrounded, at 60's he'll pull out of the worse of it and the party can heal him up, after he kills the clothy. It's why I put limits on feline agility use, one free, afterwards its con checks ever increasing till exhaustion hits the tabaxi. They can do once for sure in a long rest, but there is a risk after that.
They basically can slice and dice a caster out of the game round 1 fairly easily.
If the caster doesn't have any hit points, sure. If I want to reliably remove squishes from the encounter round 1, I'll play a variant human battlemaster fighter or gloomstalker ranger with archery fighting style and sharpshooter.
The chances of there ever being a tabaxi PC in my game is zero, dude. I play with a bunch of guys in their 50s. They have no idea what a tabaxi even is!
I am 53 and I know that a Tabaxi is a cat race. But I do instantly think - isn't roleplaying a cat humanoid some kind of perverted thing that happens in an entirely different kind of dungeon?
Honestly I'm against any of the half-man, half animal races, they seem lazy and not really Fantasy so much as bad sci-fi. Others have said that a race like the Satyr is a half-man, half-beast but even if I accepted that, it's too much a part of classic Fantasy.
I am in the final 3rd of my second 5e campaign (the first was a bastardized version of Hoard of the Dragon Queen, the second is a bastardized version of Descent Into Avernus). In the first campaign, by 5th level, the characters' powers and abilities were completely out of control. The last time I DMd was 2nd edition, so I was doling out magic items like Santa Claus, and I really, really came to regret it. By the end of the campaign, the superheroes heroes were 9th level, and I could not wait to be done.
So, lesson learned. Going into campaign 2, I made the following changes:
-slow level progression
-gritty realism for HP recovery
-'low magic' i.e. magic items, especially powerful one, are few and far between.
This has made the game better, but...they are now 4th level, and already incredibly powerful. Like, really powerful. The offensive cantrips. The endless variations of class/subclass (features and traits). So. Much. Stuff.
I am curious if others have had this same experience, and how they dealt with it. I have been a DM/GM for more than 40 years. I know how to play, how to design, and how to wing it when necessary. I love a lot of things about 5e, but this seems like a feature, not a bug.
So you have it right with some of these issues
-Magic items that effect combat can totally unbalance prewritten encounters if you are awarding them early. A +1 or +2 weapon or AC makes a massive impact. I've seen DMs give out just 1 weapon too early and have it totally unbalance combat. You don't have to go "low magic", just stay away from items that have a permanent impact on combat, and give out items that encourage creative play in and out of combat, not just things that let them hit harder.
-If you are mashing up prewritten adventures around level 5 you have to remember that the power growth of PCs are not linear, but in "tiers of play", they get a massive bump at levels 5, 11, 17
-In general I've found that a lot of the official adventures do tend to be less challenging, especially if you have players that like to optimize they PCs to be powerful in combat. If this is the case start out by giving the monsters max hp instead of the average HP. Play your monsters to the maximum of their ability, make sure you read their stat blocks ahead of time. I cant tell you the number of times I've thought a combat was too easy only to realize I didn't use abilities correctly or at all because I didn't read them.
-Abilities that seem too strong might be interpreted or read wrong. Most of the time if I read an ability or spell that seem like it's too powerful it's because the player has misread it or didn't read a rule that limits it. (But there are definitely interactions that you might want to consider limiting)
-Rests are an issue that isn't well addressed in 5e. Players are only suppose to long rest 1x every 16 hours. Short rests and long rests should sometimes have consequences when done in places that aren't safe.
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Greyhawk for the over 50s, not Mystara (wherever that is).
Well if you're giving them an environment where they can benefit from long distances then of course the PCs are going to have an easy time using this tactic.
I don't recall Mystara coming out till AD&D, or maybe even AD&D2e. But I only started in 1994.
Think about the games you DM, you ever noticed campaigns are melees and a cleric more times than the more balanced party? And then the party hits level 5, and one of the players wants to retire their character and pick up a sorcerer? Just saying, its happens a lot. The new super abilities put in for 5E, has greatly boosted melees early on. Its not that wizards are weak, its that they went a wee bit overboard on melees early on. Melee's early on were better than Wizards, looking at Gygax's design philosophy on linear fighters and quadratic wizards, he tried to slow them down because well its a wizard, they should be game breaking at higher levels compared to a guy with an axe. Its just compared to older editions the super hero 5E is a bit over the top.
Greyhawk was the default setting for AD&D, Mystara was eventually ported to AD&D in 2e.
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I think that says more about your "hive of power gamers" than the general population of players. Our group tends to stay with the same characters from level 1, and usually represent a wide range of classes.
Cantrips are quite often the best option for low level casters - it lets them remain a caster at low levels, whereas in 3E and earlier editions they'd have to switch to a physical weapon after an encounter or two.
Please see my previous post.
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No I haven't. I mean... sorcerer?
Which was bad game design even back in 1977.
How do you have 23,500 posts, IamSposta? That's just insane.
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Most of my posts are to help people in the Bugs and Homebrew subforums. (I got 12,117 “Thanks” too.)
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If you think that's broken, get a load of this!
- Get a longbow and shoot someone from 150 feet away.
That's it. That's all your tabaxi does - poorly replicate a ranged attack by combining several other resources. Being complicated or synergistic is not the same as being overpowered.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
I am 53 and I know that a Tabaxi is a cat race. But I do instantly think - isn't roleplaying a cat humanoid some kind of perverted thing that happens in an entirely different kind of dungeon?
You do understand a rogue gets one attack with a bow and can miss, meanwhile a tabaxi rogue dual wielding gets two shots to sneak attack right? There is a flaw in your logic here.
The rogue is using his bonus action for cunning action, so no offhand attack is occurring.
Feline agility is a free action. Swashbuckler allows you to make an attack and an opportunity attack can't be made against the character. Dual wielding attacks as a swash allows them to move through two characters with no chance of reprisal. Its a broken mix, haven't you DM'd it before?
Using cunning action to dash is not a free action. I haven't run into that particular combo in play, but I can math out its damage potential just fine and it's... underwhelming. There's monsters that can't deal with it, but they're mostly the same monsters that can't deal with being kited by ranged attackers.
Its just how tabaxi work with swashbuckler, its a common build. The rogue only gets one attack and if they miss, they lose sneak attack, so they dual wield to get two attacks. Feline Agility is free to use and doubles movement, Tabaxi now moves 60 feet. The swashbuckler allows them to make an attack (it doesn't have to hit and they can't opportunity attack). They can move 60' to the target, attack twice, and not get an opportunity attack reprisal. They basically can slice and dice a caster out of the game round 1 fairly easily. Worse if you gave them access to poison or magic items that add damage. It's all done so they can get two chances at a sneak attack than one. Swash's also get sneak attack if there are no allies within 5' of them. Its why they go tabaxi and dual wield. At 30' feet movement its still bad, but its likely the rogue who did that will be surrounded, at 60's he'll pull out of the worse of it and the party can heal him up, after he kills the clothy. It's why I put limits on feline agility use, one free, afterwards its con checks ever increasing till exhaustion hits the tabaxi. They can do once for sure in a long rest, but there is a risk after that.
If the caster doesn't have any hit points, sure. If I want to reliably remove squishes from the encounter round 1, I'll play a variant human battlemaster fighter or gloomstalker ranger with archery fighting style and sharpshooter.
Honestly I'm against any of the half-man, half animal races, they seem lazy and not really Fantasy so much as bad sci-fi. Others have said that a race like the Satyr is a half-man, half-beast but even if I accepted that, it's too much a part of classic Fantasy.
So you have it right with some of these issues
-Magic items that effect combat can totally unbalance prewritten encounters if you are awarding them early. A +1 or +2 weapon or AC makes a massive impact. I've seen DMs give out just 1 weapon too early and have it totally unbalance combat. You don't have to go "low magic", just stay away from items that have a permanent impact on combat, and give out items that encourage creative play in and out of combat, not just things that let them hit harder.
-If you are mashing up prewritten adventures around level 5 you have to remember that the power growth of PCs are not linear, but in "tiers of play", they get a massive bump at levels 5, 11, 17
-In general I've found that a lot of the official adventures do tend to be less challenging, especially if you have players that like to optimize they PCs to be powerful in combat. If this is the case start out by giving the monsters max hp instead of the average HP. Play your monsters to the maximum of their ability, make sure you read their stat blocks ahead of time. I cant tell you the number of times I've thought a combat was too easy only to realize I didn't use abilities correctly or at all because I didn't read them.
-Abilities that seem too strong might be interpreted or read wrong. Most of the time if I read an ability or spell that seem like it's too powerful it's because the player has misread it or didn't read a rule that limits it. (But there are definitely interactions that you might want to consider limiting)
-Rests are an issue that isn't well addressed in 5e. Players are only suppose to long rest 1x every 16 hours. Short rests and long rests should sometimes have consequences when done in places that aren't safe.