This is my first DM experience and I started with the Lost Mine of Phandelver campaign. The players are first time players and they chose to use the pre-made characters. Understandably D&D is overwhelming to them and it seems they forgot to role play their character backstories or at least their character goals. At one point they struggled to find motivation why continue the campaign and they were seeking it by bargaining with an NPC to pay them to to go adventuring. However, their backstories contain information why or which direction they would be interested exploring. And it seems that they start to form alternative reasons to do the campaign. Usually more simple though, e.g. get some coin or get revenge to the goblins. Thus, I am in a dilemma either:
I let them role play their own way and try to adjust, just to make it more personal to them. Risking that time to time they struggle to find motivation to explore further or figuring latent reasons why to continue the campaign.
Remind them of their character goals. I guess risking that they might feel pressured that they have to role play what is written on the paper and more or less suppress their own fantasy.
I would like to hear other DM ideas and perhaps experiences.
*Actually, writing this I thought of an idea to introduce some environmental reminders of their backstories, something like NPC talking something about them or maybe commenting on association that characters have towards an area.
This isn't unusual, so don't feel like it's necessarily a problem or anything you're doing wrong. First, some players just don't really care about backstory or understand that it can inform how they roleplay. And that's fine. Not all games need to have intricate backstory arcs, and not all players like or want that.
Second, characters often change from how they're originally written. I've never used a pre-gen, but pretty much every time I make a character, they change motivations and even personality as I play them more in-game. Backstory isn't prescriptive, it's just a springboard. With new players and pre-made characters, I'd encourage you to give the players some space to learn how to roleplay - and whether or not they like to roleplay. It's not a natural thing for many people. As long as they're interacting with NPCs and having fun, that's the important bit.
If the players have decided coin and revenge are why they want to continue with the quest, those are perfectly valid. Meet them where they are, rather than trying to get them to where you want them. If they continue to struggle with motivations, maybe have a conversation with each player privately and ask, "Why does your character adventure? What excites them and motivates them? Do you like the backstory the pre-made sheet has, or is there something else that you'd enjoy more?" You can also ask them what they like about the campaign and what they want more of. Not all modules are a good fit for every table as-written. I know plenty of people who love Hoard of the Dragon Queen, for example, but my friends and I barely made it through one session before we dropped it and switched to something else. Not that you have to drop the campaign you've been running, but if the players aren't connecting with the plot, it's okay to massage the plot to make it more fun for everyone.
I wouldn't worry too much about their backstories. It's complex enough for first timers without having to worry about that, especially if they are using premade characters. Unless you're actually planning on tying in your character's backstories to the main plot, I don't really see much point. To give you an example, I have a new player in my group - we're running Dragon Heist leading into Dungeon of the Mad Mage. Her backstory is fairly light, but her home was destroyed by some creature, she wasn't sure what it was. I've taken it and run with it, and made the creature Umbraxakar, giving them a reason to venture into the Undermountain. Another character is searching for her adoptive father - I'm going to have him as a prisoner on one of the levels too.
As long as your players - and you! - are having fun, that's the important thing.
IME, if a Player doesn't create their own backstory, they don't have much investment in the character, and new players magnify everything because, well, they are new players.
Of your options, #1 is the route I would take -- especially with pregens, which are still basically someone else's character.
If they've finished LMOP, and it was I, I would take the time to teach them how to create new characters, not ty to keep using the existing ones, but let them keep all the stuff they gained so far
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At one point they struggled to find motivation why continue the campaign and they were seeking it by bargaining with an NPC to pay them to to go adventuring.
I would pause the campaign right here.
I would remind the players that we all gathered here to play D&D, and if they want to play D&D they need to bring characters to the table that actually want to adventure. That means it is their job to justify why they want to adventure, not yours.
Then I'd point at their backstories as a place to start if they need inspiration for their motivations. If they want to discard all that and come up with something else, fine. But bring something to the table. I'm not going to force backstories on anyone, but at the bare minimum you need a reason your character is there. If you don't have that why are you even playing?
As brand new players and DM, the only thing you guys should be concerning yourselves with is wandering through a random dungeon, throwing dice, learning the rules, and having a good laugh and time. The fact that words like "backstories", "roleplay", and "motivation" are coming up at all, let alone threating to derail your very first D&D game honestly has me worried for the hobby overall.
If you don't mind me asking, where are you guys getting this stuff? I can't imagine this is how new players just come to think, in a vacuum.
I mean, some of us absolutely came in brand new to the game and really wanted to roleplay, have character motivations, and write backstories that saw fruit in-game. There are spaces you can fill in on the character sheet devoted specifically to that, after all. It's just a playstyle preference. There's nothing to worry about, except when that style is foisted on people who don't want to do things that way.
It doesn't seem to me that OP is trying to force their players into being RP-lovers, though it does sound like OP maybe has a more RP-focused style than they do initially. Being a new DM and balancing your preferences with your players' is always a learning curve. That's I think what this boils down to.
I mean, some of us absolutely came in brand new to the game and really wanted to roleplay, have character motivations, and write backstories that saw fruit in-game. There are spaces you can fill in on the character sheet devoted specifically to that, after all. It's just a playstyle preference. There's nothing to worry about, except when that style is foisted on people who don't want to do things that way.
It doesn't seem to me that OP is trying to force their players into being RP-lovers, though it does sound like OP maybe has a more RP-focused style than they do initially. Being a new DM and balancing your preferences with your players' is always a learning curve. That's I think what this boils down to.
Sure and that’s fine but I feel like we are putting the cart before the horse here. These are brand new players, presumably with no idea how the game works. The focus needs to be on learning how combat is done, and how to make sound tactical decisions during it for instance. How to recognize situations when best to apply your proficient skills, be it in the dungeon, wilderness or town. Getting familiar with all the equipment, and why you need this stuff to survive, then understanding you need to balance that against how much encumbrance you want to leave free to lug as much treasure as possible out of the dungeon.
I have nothing against RP, I love to RP. But I strongly feel it should be emphasized AFTER players understand these core concepts and mechanics.
The idea “Backstories” has always been confusing to me though. I can see it in a high level-start campaign, where your character is someone of importance right away. But normally Isn’t your “backstory” your background? (Something that has a mechanical impact on the game)? It’s like, I was an acolyte, now I’m an adventurer. I was an entertainer, now I’m an adventure. I was a soldier… So on and so forth.
I mean, some of us absolutely came in brand new to the game and really wanted to roleplay, have character motivations, and write backstories that saw fruit in-game. There are spaces you can fill in on the character sheet devoted specifically to that, after all. It's just a playstyle preference. There's nothing to worry about, except when that style is foisted on people who don't want to do things that way.
It doesn't seem to me that OP is trying to force their players into being RP-lovers, though it does sound like OP maybe has a more RP-focused style than they do initially. Being a new DM and balancing your preferences with your players' is always a learning curve. That's I think what this boils down to.
Sure and that’s fine but I feel like we are putting the cart before the horse here. These are brand new players, presumably with no idea how the game works. The focus needs to be on learning how combat is done, and how to make sound tactical decisions during it for instance. How to recognize situations when best to apply your proficient skills, be it in the dungeon, wilderness or town. Getting familiar with all the equipment, and why you need this stuff to survive, then understanding you need to balance that against how much encumbrance you want to leave free to lug as much treasure as possible out of the dungeon.
I have nothing against RP, I love to RP. But I strongly feel it should be emphasized AFTER players understand these core concepts and mechanics.
The idea “Backstories” has always been confusing to me though. I can see it in a high level-start campaign, where your character is someone of importance right away. But normally Isn’t your “backstory” your background? (Something that has a mechanical impact on the game)? It’s like, I was an acolyte, now I’m an adventurer. I was an entertainer, now I’m an adventure. I was a soldier… So on and so forth.
So, some points:
1 - pretty sure they have the combat part down (OP notes they look forward to it).
2 - I've known people who have played for 30 years and still can't make sound tactical choices. Then again, I've known generals who can't make sound tactical or strategic choices. Asking for that is way too much.
3 - proficiencies and other stuff is exceptionally dependent on how well the DM understands their value and how to use them, and this is someone who has either finished or is finishing LMoP. Not a whole lot of use in that circumstances.
4 - IOW, they aren't that green.
5 -- The OP specifically asked about Role Playing, and they did so because the players used the pre-gen characters, who come with a backstory that is germane to the adventure. So they are very much at a point where they (the OP) are ready for backstory, at least on the DM side, since that would help them in running the adventure.
6 - The issue is that it doesn't appear the Players are ready for role playing, in part because they aren't using their backstory. And in this case, they mean Backstory, because that is how it is provided in terms of the pre-generated characters (not background).
THat said, I gotta say, I love the bit about learning the core mechanics first. Totally agree with it.
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I let them role play their own way and try to adjust, just to make it more personal to them. Risking that time to time they struggle to find motivation to explore further or figuring latent reasons why to continue the campaign.
Remind them of their character goals. I guess risking that they might feel pressured that they have to role play what is written on the paper and more or less suppress their own fantasy.
I'd start with #2, see if they're interested in the pre-made backstories but just weren't really aware of them since they had no part in writing it.
But then if they don't like the pre-gen backstory just go with #1 and let them come up with their own motivation to adventure. There's nothing wrong with playing characters that don't want to do anything without getting paid, that's a pretty bland but standard reason to be an adventurer
Yeah, I agree with SireSamuel on this one. They're new players. The important thing is that they have fun. Backstories are fun, but for more experienced players. Let them get to grips with what an adventure can be first.
Everyone in your group is new to the game. Every person and group will play the game a bit differently, enjoy different aspects of it and, as a player, will feel different motivations to play.
Game mechanics are a part of the game. Combat, exploration and social interactions are a part of the game. Similarly, role playing is a part of the game.
Some folks get into role playing more, others don't. Some people feel self conscious, nervous or embarrassed about putting themselves out there by role playing, others don't.
As a new group of players and DM, you are introducing everyone to all the aspects of the game which can include role playing. Role playing is the easy part because it has no rules. The players don't need to do math or think tactically or strategically to role play. The key aspect to role playing is usually looking at a situation from the perspective of the character. This makes the role playing aspects of the game one of the easier ones to address but still one of the hardest to become good at.
If I was DMing in this case, I wouldn't point out backstories as constraints on what the character should do. e.g. The backstory says the character is like "this" which means you should do "that".
However, if a situation comes up where the players appear to be searching for motivation to do something in the game or take some action then you could remind them that "Your character might have an interest in helping others, maybe take a look at your some of the motivations/goals/bonds/flaws etc of the character to see if there is anything there that might help you decide what the character would do?". You could then have a short out of character chat about what role playing means. Don't expect folks to necessarily pick up on it right away but learning to role play is as much a part of the game as learning the rules - it is just a lot more flexible, open to interpretation, almost completely personal and individual, provides a huge outlet for creativity, and can be a source of far more fun and laughs than the combat aspects of the game (for example).
Basically, role playing comes down to the player looking at the game world from the character perspective and how they would see things - which then informs the decisions the player makes for the character in terms of interacting with the world.
As brand new players and DM, the only thing you guys should be concerning yourselves with is wandering through a random dungeon, throwing dice, learning the rules, and having a good laugh and time. The fact that words like "backstories", "roleplay", and "motivation" are coming up at all, let alone threating to derail your very first D&D game honestly has me worried for the hobby overall.
If you don't mind me asking, where are you guys getting this stuff? I can't imagine this is how new players just come to think, in a vacuum.
I think you're missing a lot of context here.
Many of today's new players have plenty of experience with video games. If they enjoy mindless dungeon delving, they are already doing that through games that provide a much smoother experience for that kind of thing. If you're just enforcing mechanics and rolling on random tables, I'm sorry but computers do that kind of thing faster and better than you ever could. You're trying to sell a horse and buggy to a family with two cars in the garage.
When I run a one-shot for new players, they are primarily interested in the stuff that video games can't do, and roleplay is at the heart of that. They aren't playing as mute Link or blank-faced Commander Shepard, and NPCs don't just rehash the same two lines of dialogue. They can have real conversations and make real choices. They can't get that in any other game, and that's what draws them to D&D.
This is a natural evolution of the hobby. The game has pivoted more towards the primary thing that distinguishes it from other entertainment. Random dungeons were fine when the alternative was Space Invaders on the Atari 2600, but the world has come a long way since then.
Many of today's new players have plenty of experience with video games. If they enjoy mindless dungeon delving, they are already doing that through games that provide a much smoother experience for that kind of thing. If you're just enforcing mechanics and rolling on random tables, I'm sorry but computers do that kind of thing faster and better than you ever could. You're trying to sell a horse and buggy to a family with two cars in the garage.
When I run a one-shot for new players, they are primarily interested in the stuff that video games can't do, and roleplay is at the heart of that. They aren't playing as mute Link or blank-faced Commander Shepard, and NPCs don't just rehash the same two lines of dialogue. They can have real conversations and make real choices. They can't get that in any other game, and that's what draws them to D&D.
This is a natural evolution of the hobby. The game has pivoted more towards the primary thing that distinguishes it from other entertainment. Random dungeons were fine when the alternative was Space Invaders on the Atari 2600, but the world has come a long way since then.
Definitely an apples-oranges comparison. Video games limit your creativity in regards to how you approach the challenges of a dungeon as much so as predetermined text options limit your freedom in social roleplay.
And I’m not recommending random generators as the panacea for dungeon creation. Far from it, until AI gets a lot better at that particular task, a skilled dungeon master can make some far better than the nonsense Donjon spits out.
That said it is still useful in a pinch, and for a brand new dungeon master learning the craft.
Many of today's new players have plenty of experience with video games. If they enjoy mindless dungeon delving, they are already doing that through games that provide a much smoother experience for that kind of thing. If you're just enforcing mechanics and rolling on random tables, I'm sorry but computers do that kind of thing faster and better than you ever could. You're trying to sell a horse and buggy to a family with two cars in the garage.
When I run a one-shot for new players, they are primarily interested in the stuff that video games can't do, and roleplay is at the heart of that. They aren't playing as mute Link or blank-faced Commander Shepard, and NPCs don't just rehash the same two lines of dialogue. They can have real conversations and make real choices. They can't get that in any other game, and that's what draws them to D&D.
This is a natural evolution of the hobby. The game has pivoted more towards the primary thing that distinguishes it from other entertainment. Random dungeons were fine when the alternative was Space Invaders on the Atari 2600, but the world has come a long way since then.
Definitely an apples-oranges comparison. Video games limit your creativity in regards to how you approach the challenges of a dungeon as much so as predetermined text options limit your freedom in social roleplay.
And I’m not recommending random generators as the panacea for dungeon creation. Far from it, until AI gets a lot better at that particular task, a skilled dungeon master can make some far better than the nonsense Donjon spits out.
That said it is still useful in a pinch, and for a brand new dungeon master learning the craft.
Total agreement on the nature of video games being liiting, the use of random generators, and the nevertheless usefulness of it all.
if I recall clearly, Donjon was based on the 1e dungeon generator rules -- which I still use (over the 5e ones) when I need a quick set of ruins (since I run a sandbox).
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Depending on the campaign play frequency and level of committment, it can happen that players forget background information, goals or motives and you can always remind them of it. Some game every other week or monthly, some players easily forget campaign notes, especially when dating from the begining etc but their characters may not necessarily forgot those things so helping them not loose track of stuff like that just help keep the focus.
Often a good way to do this is at the begining of a session as part of briefing from last one, as a way to put things back into perspective.
Sure and that’s fine but I feel like we are putting the cart before the horse here. These are brand new players, presumably with no idea how the game works. The focus needs to be on learning how combat is done, and how to make sound tactical decisions during it for instance. How to recognize situations when best to apply your proficient skills, be it in the dungeon, wilderness or town. Getting familiar with all the equipment, and why you need this stuff to survive, then understanding you need to balance that against how much encumbrance you want to leave free to lug as much treasure as possible out of the dungeon.
I have nothing against RP, I love to RP. But I strongly feel it should be emphasized AFTER players understand these core concepts and mechanics.
The idea “Backstories” has always been confusing to me though. I can see it in a high level-start campaign, where your character is someone of importance right away. But normally Isn’t your “backstory” your background? (Something that has a mechanical impact on the game)? It’s like, I was an acolyte, now I’m an adventurer. I was an entertainer, now I’m an adventure. I was a soldier… So on and so forth.
I see where you're coming from. I interpreted the situation as OP's table has been playing Phandelver for a little while, now, and doesn't need as much help with mechanics; instead, they are struggling with learning how to roleplay. If I misunderstood, then yeah, I'd backpedal and advise OP to pump the brakes on RP - which I implied in my original response but could have been clearer. I agree that learning the dice rolling and crunchy parts is important to focus on initially, since it's a huge part of the game.
I think what I was mostly concerned about was identifying whether the characters aren't motivated or the players aren't. I've been there. It's hard to manufacture a reason to be/stay engaged, sometimes, if you didn't have much investment in your character's creation and there's not much gripping you about the plot. This gets harder if you're accustomed to being a consumer of games, rather than an active collaborator - which describes many newer players. All of that, I find, can affect how to teach new players RP. So asking questions about what they/their characters like and meeting them where they are tackles two issues at once: teaching them the third pillar of D&D and ensuring they keep having fun.
As for backstory, I agree it can be synonymous with background. But sometimes backgrounds are too generic, or just don't cover the concept well enough. For instance, there's no "I grew up as the sickly youngest child in an overprotective household, studied weaponry in secret, and ran away at 17 to prove myself to my parents" background. If Teen Rebel were a thing, I would've picked it for my fighter. Instead, I gave her Clan Craftsman because her parents were smiths. I suppose I could've customized a Teen Rebel background, but writing a paragraph on my character sheet about the chip on her shoulder and her desire to prove herself felt easier.
I hear what you're saying, though. Backstories that tell tales of bravery and feats for low-level play is a little absurd. But every character had a life before they started adventuring. Backstory can just be a tiny window into who they used to be and why they left that behind. Not all players need that why for roleplay purposes, but for some it helps make the game more immersive.
Wow, thanks for all the responses. I thought there wouldn't be a clear cut answer, but honestly I got a bit more confused reading the comments ha ha... The thing about LMoP pre-gen characters is that their backstories aren't just part of game mechanics. There are some defined relationships with NPCs and "monsters", for example, one character used to live in Phandalin as a member of Redbrand Ruffians and also his aunt lives there. Thus, if I were to play the NPC based on their backstories then I could surprise the PC that this NPC is his aunt actually.
However, reading your ideas and experience was very informative and soothing. I'll just try to nudge the PCs here and there (my plan was never to enforce the backstories ha ha), and see where it goes from there. We can always improvise.
Regarding the rules, I am still struggling with them... I have played some 20 games as a player and 3 as a DM now. It's not that much, but I hoped by this time I wouldn't need to look into the rule book that much ha ha... Some game mechanics just don't make sense to me and learning by heart is the only way (or re-reading the rules). However, as the starter set rule book stated - the rules are just a guide. In the end it's about the story. I completely agree with that and I want my games to be more story focused. Nonetheless, the game mechanics intervene almost every step of the way. :)
Regarding the rules, I am still struggling with them... I have played some 20 games as a player and 3 as a DM now. It's not that much, but I hoped by this time I wouldn't need to look into the rule book that much ha ha... Some game mechanics just don't make sense to me and learning by heart is the only way (or re-reading the rules). However, as the starter set rule book stated - the rules are just a guide. In the end it's about the story. I completely agree with that and I want my games to be more story focused. Nonetheless, the game mechanics intervene almost every step of the way. :)
DMing is a lot even if you're familiar with the game as a player. Don't be too hard on yourself about looking up rules. I've been DMing for years and I still look things up from time to time.
You'll get a better handle on the mechanics as you get more experience running sessions. It's okay to make a call to keep things flowing and then look it up in the DMG/PHB after the session is over. You might get it right, or you might get it wrong, but it's fine either way. You can always tell your players, "Hey guys, last week I ruled X, but I realized later that it should have been Y. We will (or won't) retcon what happened, and moving forward, Y is what we'll do." And there's also no harm in pausing play briefly to look something up every once in a while.
The rules are there to help the game, but there's also a lot of situations that the rules don't really cover well or that might make the game less fun for your particular table. If you use your best judgment and are open and communicative as you learn to DM, you'll be just fine. Good luck!
Wow, thanks for all the responses. I thought there wouldn't be a clear cut answer, but honestly I got a bit more confused reading the comments ha ha... The thing about LMoP pre-gen characters is that their backstories aren't just part of game mechanics. There are some defined relationships with NPCs and "monsters", for example, one character used to live in Phandalin as a member of Redbrand Ruffians and also his aunt lives there. Thus, if I were to play the NPC based on their backstories then I could surprise the PC that this NPC is his aunt actually.
However, reading your ideas and experience was very informative and soothing. I'll just try to nudge the PCs here and there (my plan was never to enforce the backstories ha ha), and see where it goes from there. We can always improvise.
Regarding the rules, I am still struggling with them... I have played some 20 games as a player and 3 as a DM now. It's not that much, but I hoped by this time I wouldn't need to look into the rule book that much ha ha... Some game mechanics just don't make sense to me and learning by heart is the only way (or re-reading the rules). However, as the starter set rule book stated - the rules are just a guide. In the end it's about the story. I completely agree with that and I want my games to be more story focused. Nonetheless, the game mechanics intervene almost every step of the way. :)
Never be afraid to look up the rules.
I have played every version and edition of this darn game, and after 40 years and thousands of session, I have to look stuff up because sometimes I will rule using an earlier set of rules and get called out on it later.
I write my own extensive rules because I use wholly OC worlds, and I still have to look those rules up -- rules I wrote. That's even something the "lead architect" has to do, and admits to. Granted, yes, you probably have to look things up more often than I do, but the need is still the same, and this is a complex game.
For the stuff that doesn't make sense to you, don't be afraid to ask about it. I like to design games. I love game mechanics. And I learned the systems from studying those things -- specifically for role playing. D&D is why I went into the fields I have studied and earned letters after my name for.
My last point is a minor correction, but an important one:
the rules are just a guide. In the end it's about the story.
This should read: the rules are just a guide. In the end it's about the character's story. The PCs are the people the story is told about. They are the main characters, the protagonists, and everything else circles around them, even in LMoP.
Good luck, and hope you keep with it.
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Hello, everyone!
This is my first DM experience and I started with the Lost Mine of Phandelver campaign. The players are first time players and they chose to use the pre-made characters. Understandably D&D is overwhelming to them and it seems they forgot to role play their character backstories or at least their character goals. At one point they struggled to find motivation why continue the campaign and they were seeking it by bargaining with an NPC to pay them to to go adventuring. However, their backstories contain information why or which direction they would be interested exploring. And it seems that they start to form alternative reasons to do the campaign. Usually more simple though, e.g. get some coin or get revenge to the goblins. Thus, I am in a dilemma either:
I let them role play their own way and try to adjust, just to make it more personal to them. Risking that time to time they struggle to find motivation to explore further or figuring latent reasons why to continue the campaign.
Remind them of their character goals. I guess risking that they might feel pressured that they have to role play what is written on the paper and more or less suppress their own fantasy.
I would like to hear other DM ideas and perhaps experiences.
*Actually, writing this I thought of an idea to introduce some environmental reminders of their backstories, something like NPC talking something about them or maybe commenting on association that characters have towards an area.
This isn't unusual, so don't feel like it's necessarily a problem or anything you're doing wrong. First, some players just don't really care about backstory or understand that it can inform how they roleplay. And that's fine. Not all games need to have intricate backstory arcs, and not all players like or want that.
Second, characters often change from how they're originally written. I've never used a pre-gen, but pretty much every time I make a character, they change motivations and even personality as I play them more in-game. Backstory isn't prescriptive, it's just a springboard. With new players and pre-made characters, I'd encourage you to give the players some space to learn how to roleplay - and whether or not they like to roleplay. It's not a natural thing for many people. As long as they're interacting with NPCs and having fun, that's the important bit.
If the players have decided coin and revenge are why they want to continue with the quest, those are perfectly valid. Meet them where they are, rather than trying to get them to where you want them. If they continue to struggle with motivations, maybe have a conversation with each player privately and ask, "Why does your character adventure? What excites them and motivates them? Do you like the backstory the pre-made sheet has, or is there something else that you'd enjoy more?" You can also ask them what they like about the campaign and what they want more of. Not all modules are a good fit for every table as-written. I know plenty of people who love Hoard of the Dragon Queen, for example, but my friends and I barely made it through one session before we dropped it and switched to something else. Not that you have to drop the campaign you've been running, but if the players aren't connecting with the plot, it's okay to massage the plot to make it more fun for everyone.
I wouldn't worry too much about their backstories. It's complex enough for first timers without having to worry about that, especially if they are using premade characters. Unless you're actually planning on tying in your character's backstories to the main plot, I don't really see much point. To give you an example, I have a new player in my group - we're running Dragon Heist leading into Dungeon of the Mad Mage. Her backstory is fairly light, but her home was destroyed by some creature, she wasn't sure what it was. I've taken it and run with it, and made the creature Umbraxakar, giving them a reason to venture into the Undermountain. Another character is searching for her adoptive father - I'm going to have him as a prisoner on one of the levels too.
As long as your players - and you! - are having fun, that's the important thing.
IME, if a Player doesn't create their own backstory, they don't have much investment in the character, and new players magnify everything because, well, they are new players.
Of your options, #1 is the route I would take -- especially with pregens, which are still basically someone else's character.
If they've finished LMOP, and it was I, I would take the time to teach them how to create new characters, not ty to keep using the existing ones, but let them keep all the stuff they gained so far
Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities
.-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-.
An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more.
Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
I would pause the campaign right here.
I would remind the players that we all gathered here to play D&D, and if they want to play D&D they need to bring characters to the table that actually want to adventure. That means it is their job to justify why they want to adventure, not yours.
Then I'd point at their backstories as a place to start if they need inspiration for their motivations. If they want to discard all that and come up with something else, fine. But bring something to the table. I'm not going to force backstories on anyone, but at the bare minimum you need a reason your character is there. If you don't have that why are you even playing?
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
Whoa whoa whoa whoa. Sheesh, this is nuts.
As brand new players and DM, the only thing you guys should be concerning yourselves with is wandering through a random dungeon, throwing dice, learning the rules, and having a good laugh and time. The fact that words like "backstories", "roleplay", and "motivation" are coming up at all, let alone threating to derail your very first D&D game honestly has me worried for the hobby overall.
If you don't mind me asking, where are you guys getting this stuff? I can't imagine this is how new players just come to think, in a vacuum.
I mean, some of us absolutely came in brand new to the game and really wanted to roleplay, have character motivations, and write backstories that saw fruit in-game. There are spaces you can fill in on the character sheet devoted specifically to that, after all. It's just a playstyle preference. There's nothing to worry about, except when that style is foisted on people who don't want to do things that way.
It doesn't seem to me that OP is trying to force their players into being RP-lovers, though it does sound like OP maybe has a more RP-focused style than they do initially. Being a new DM and balancing your preferences with your players' is always a learning curve. That's I think what this boils down to.
Sure and that’s fine but I feel like we are putting the cart before the horse here. These are brand new players, presumably with no idea how the game works. The focus needs to be on learning how combat is done, and how to make sound tactical decisions during it for instance. How to recognize situations when best to apply your proficient skills, be it in the dungeon, wilderness or town. Getting familiar with all the equipment, and why you need this stuff to survive, then understanding you need to balance that against how much encumbrance you want to leave free to lug as much treasure as possible out of the dungeon.
I have nothing against RP, I love to RP. But I strongly feel it should be emphasized AFTER players understand these core concepts and mechanics.
The idea “Backstories” has always been confusing to me though. I can see it in a high level-start campaign, where your character is someone of importance right away. But normally Isn’t your “backstory” your background? (Something that has a mechanical impact on the game)? It’s like, I was an acolyte, now I’m an adventurer. I was an entertainer, now I’m an adventure. I was a soldier… So on and so forth.
So, some points:
1 - pretty sure they have the combat part down (OP notes they look forward to it).
2 - I've known people who have played for 30 years and still can't make sound tactical choices. Then again, I've known generals who can't make sound tactical or strategic choices. Asking for that is way too much.
3 - proficiencies and other stuff is exceptionally dependent on how well the DM understands their value and how to use them, and this is someone who has either finished or is finishing LMoP. Not a whole lot of use in that circumstances.
4 - IOW, they aren't that green.
5 -- The OP specifically asked about Role Playing, and they did so because the players used the pre-gen characters, who come with a backstory that is germane to the adventure. So they are very much at a point where they (the OP) are ready for backstory, at least on the DM side, since that would help them in running the adventure.
6 - The issue is that it doesn't appear the Players are ready for role playing, in part because they aren't using their backstory. And in this case, they mean Backstory, because that is how it is provided in terms of the pre-generated characters (not background).
THat said, I gotta say, I love the bit about learning the core mechanics first. Totally agree with it.
Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities
.-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-.
An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more.
Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
I'd start with #2, see if they're interested in the pre-made backstories but just weren't really aware of them since they had no part in writing it.
But then if they don't like the pre-gen backstory just go with #1 and let them come up with their own motivation to adventure. There's nothing wrong with playing characters that don't want to do anything without getting paid, that's a pretty bland but standard reason to be an adventurer
Yeah, I agree with SireSamuel on this one. They're new players. The important thing is that they have fun. Backstories are fun, but for more experienced players. Let them get to grips with what an adventure can be first.
Everyone in your group is new to the game. Every person and group will play the game a bit differently, enjoy different aspects of it and, as a player, will feel different motivations to play.
Game mechanics are a part of the game. Combat, exploration and social interactions are a part of the game. Similarly, role playing is a part of the game.
Some folks get into role playing more, others don't. Some people feel self conscious, nervous or embarrassed about putting themselves out there by role playing, others don't.
As a new group of players and DM, you are introducing everyone to all the aspects of the game which can include role playing. Role playing is the easy part because it has no rules. The players don't need to do math or think tactically or strategically to role play. The key aspect to role playing is usually looking at a situation from the perspective of the character. This makes the role playing aspects of the game one of the easier ones to address but still one of the hardest to become good at.
If I was DMing in this case, I wouldn't point out backstories as constraints on what the character should do. e.g. The backstory says the character is like "this" which means you should do "that".
However, if a situation comes up where the players appear to be searching for motivation to do something in the game or take some action then you could remind them that "Your character might have an interest in helping others, maybe take a look at your some of the motivations/goals/bonds/flaws etc of the character to see if there is anything there that might help you decide what the character would do?". You could then have a short out of character chat about what role playing means. Don't expect folks to necessarily pick up on it right away but learning to role play is as much a part of the game as learning the rules - it is just a lot more flexible, open to interpretation, almost completely personal and individual, provides a huge outlet for creativity, and can be a source of far more fun and laughs than the combat aspects of the game (for example).
Basically, role playing comes down to the player looking at the game world from the character perspective and how they would see things - which then informs the decisions the player makes for the character in terms of interacting with the world.
I think you're missing a lot of context here.
Many of today's new players have plenty of experience with video games. If they enjoy mindless dungeon delving, they are already doing that through games that provide a much smoother experience for that kind of thing. If you're just enforcing mechanics and rolling on random tables, I'm sorry but computers do that kind of thing faster and better than you ever could. You're trying to sell a horse and buggy to a family with two cars in the garage.
When I run a one-shot for new players, they are primarily interested in the stuff that video games can't do, and roleplay is at the heart of that. They aren't playing as mute Link or blank-faced Commander Shepard, and NPCs don't just rehash the same two lines of dialogue. They can have real conversations and make real choices. They can't get that in any other game, and that's what draws them to D&D.
This is a natural evolution of the hobby. The game has pivoted more towards the primary thing that distinguishes it from other entertainment. Random dungeons were fine when the alternative was Space Invaders on the Atari 2600, but the world has come a long way since then.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
Definitely an apples-oranges comparison. Video games limit your creativity in regards to how you approach the challenges of a dungeon as much so as predetermined text options limit your freedom in social roleplay.
And I’m not recommending random generators as the panacea for dungeon creation. Far from it, until AI gets a lot better at that particular task, a skilled dungeon master can make some far better than the nonsense Donjon spits out.
That said it is still useful in a pinch, and for a brand new dungeon master learning the craft.
Total agreement on the nature of video games being liiting, the use of random generators, and the nevertheless usefulness of it all.
if I recall clearly, Donjon was based on the 1e dungeon generator rules -- which I still use (over the 5e ones) when I need a quick set of ruins (since I run a sandbox).
Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities
.-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-.
An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more.
Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
Depending on the campaign play frequency and level of committment, it can happen that players forget background information, goals or motives and you can always remind them of it. Some game every other week or monthly, some players easily forget campaign notes, especially when dating from the begining etc but their characters may not necessarily forgot those things so helping them not loose track of stuff like that just help keep the focus.
Often a good way to do this is at the begining of a session as part of briefing from last one, as a way to put things back into perspective.
I see where you're coming from. I interpreted the situation as OP's table has been playing Phandelver for a little while, now, and doesn't need as much help with mechanics; instead, they are struggling with learning how to roleplay. If I misunderstood, then yeah, I'd backpedal and advise OP to pump the brakes on RP - which I implied in my original response but could have been clearer. I agree that learning the dice rolling and crunchy parts is important to focus on initially, since it's a huge part of the game.
I think what I was mostly concerned about was identifying whether the characters aren't motivated or the players aren't. I've been there. It's hard to manufacture a reason to be/stay engaged, sometimes, if you didn't have much investment in your character's creation and there's not much gripping you about the plot. This gets harder if you're accustomed to being a consumer of games, rather than an active collaborator - which describes many newer players. All of that, I find, can affect how to teach new players RP. So asking questions about what they/their characters like and meeting them where they are tackles two issues at once: teaching them the third pillar of D&D and ensuring they keep having fun.
As for backstory, I agree it can be synonymous with background. But sometimes backgrounds are too generic, or just don't cover the concept well enough. For instance, there's no "I grew up as the sickly youngest child in an overprotective household, studied weaponry in secret, and ran away at 17 to prove myself to my parents" background. If Teen Rebel were a thing, I would've picked it for my fighter. Instead, I gave her Clan Craftsman because her parents were smiths. I suppose I could've customized a Teen Rebel background, but writing a paragraph on my character sheet about the chip on her shoulder and her desire to prove herself felt easier.
I hear what you're saying, though. Backstories that tell tales of bravery and feats for low-level play is a little absurd. But every character had a life before they started adventuring. Backstory can just be a tiny window into who they used to be and why they left that behind. Not all players need that why for roleplay purposes, but for some it helps make the game more immersive.
Wow, thanks for all the responses. I thought there wouldn't be a clear cut answer, but honestly I got a bit more confused reading the comments ha ha... The thing about LMoP pre-gen characters is that their backstories aren't just part of game mechanics. There are some defined relationships with NPCs and "monsters", for example, one character used to live in Phandalin as a member of Redbrand Ruffians and also his aunt lives there. Thus, if I were to play the NPC based on their backstories then I could surprise the PC that this NPC is his aunt actually.
However, reading your ideas and experience was very informative and soothing. I'll just try to nudge the PCs here and there (my plan was never to enforce the backstories ha ha), and see where it goes from there. We can always improvise.
Regarding the rules, I am still struggling with them... I have played some 20 games as a player and 3 as a DM now. It's not that much, but I hoped by this time I wouldn't need to look into the rule book that much ha ha... Some game mechanics just don't make sense to me and learning by heart is the only way (or re-reading the rules). However, as the starter set rule book stated - the rules are just a guide. In the end it's about the story. I completely agree with that and I want my games to be more story focused. Nonetheless, the game mechanics intervene almost every step of the way. :)
DMing is a lot even if you're familiar with the game as a player. Don't be too hard on yourself about looking up rules. I've been DMing for years and I still look things up from time to time.
You'll get a better handle on the mechanics as you get more experience running sessions. It's okay to make a call to keep things flowing and then look it up in the DMG/PHB after the session is over. You might get it right, or you might get it wrong, but it's fine either way. You can always tell your players, "Hey guys, last week I ruled X, but I realized later that it should have been Y. We will (or won't) retcon what happened, and moving forward, Y is what we'll do." And there's also no harm in pausing play briefly to look something up every once in a while.
The rules are there to help the game, but there's also a lot of situations that the rules don't really cover well or that might make the game less fun for your particular table. If you use your best judgment and are open and communicative as you learn to DM, you'll be just fine. Good luck!
Never be afraid to look up the rules.
I have played every version and edition of this darn game, and after 40 years and thousands of session, I have to look stuff up because sometimes I will rule using an earlier set of rules and get called out on it later.
I write my own extensive rules because I use wholly OC worlds, and I still have to look those rules up -- rules I wrote. That's even something the "lead architect" has to do, and admits to. Granted, yes, you probably have to look things up more often than I do, but the need is still the same, and this is a complex game.
For the stuff that doesn't make sense to you, don't be afraid to ask about it. I like to design games. I love game mechanics. And I learned the systems from studying those things -- specifically for role playing. D&D is why I went into the fields I have studied and earned letters after my name for.
My last point is a minor correction, but an important one:
This should read: the rules are just a guide. In the end it's about the character's story. The PCs are the people the story is told about. They are the main characters, the protagonists, and everything else circles around them, even in LMoP.
Good luck, and hope you keep with it.
Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities
.-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-.
An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more.
Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds