In my campaign Zariel was redeemed and is now a Celestial again. This was planned. However, what I didn’t plan was one of the party members being a SCAG Zariel tiefling. What should happen to the character?
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I would rule that the character was tainted by the Hells and that hasn't changed. Zariel was redeemed and any pacts she made she abolishes but that's different than the Nine Hells seeping into the "gene pool".
Of course you can always have Zariel offer purge the taint and change the character into a human.
If it were my table, I'd probably leave the tiefling as-is and have Zariel try to make amends to all of her lineage, exploring what the player wants from that. But since you're seeking ideas...
Another alternative is that the tiefling stays a tiefling, but their magic alters to suit a celestial tie. Fire damage/resistance replaced with radiant. Maybe there are cosmetic differences, too. Skin color changes, horns become a halo, etc.
What does Zariel changing have anything to do with Tieflings that are already born? The infernal bloodline was already established long ago, that bloodline doesn't change even if she's no longer infernal. Same as if Zariel had died, it's not like all Zariel Tieflings would die.
edit: Answer above is from the perspective of what would be the most "realistic". As the DM you should always feel free to do whatever you think make the story the coolest and most impactful.
I would say all Zariel tieflings would mechanically stay the same but they would change appearance to more match the angel Zariel. Perhaps their skin/ hair/ eyes change to a more heavenly color. Maybe they lose their horns and devilish characteristics. Take inspiration form the aasimar description. Any purely cosmetic changes would keep everything balanced while still reflecting Zariel's redemption.
I would rule that nothing happens to her Tieflings (unless the player wants something to happen). What made Tieflings what they are happened long, long ago. The only way I’d say anything changes is if the player specifically wants something to happen, then I would invent something to accommodate them. But otherwise I’d say there ain’t no changin’ the past.
think what zariel was once and is again, an angel of BATTLE. she fell on purpouse to fight demons better, so the tieflings would becoe some kind of martial focused aasimar subrace
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Personally... I don't see why a tiefling can't be "redeemed" if an angel can become a devil and then back to an angel again. The argument of genetics seems invalid in a world of magical bloodlines. A retroactive change could pulse back through the bloodline changing tieflings to aasimar if they so choose. It really comes down to what the player wants, though. Do they want to be "redeemed" along with Zariel and to what extent? A simple change in flavoring of appearance, spells and abilities or a full change of race with the loss of all fiend traits and replaced with celestial ones.
In my campaign Zariel was redeemed and is now a Celestial again. This was planned. However, what I didn’t plan was one of the party members being a SCAG Zariel tiefling. What should happen to the character?
Nothing.
Say I live for 100 generations, the children of my children having more children, and so on. Then, suddenly one day, I become a nice guy. Why would that affect anyone but me?
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
In my campaign Zariel was redeemed and is now a Celestial again. This was planned. However, what I didn’t plan was one of the party members being a SCAG Zariel tiefling. What should happen to the character?
Nothing.
Say I live for 100 generations, the children of my children having more children, and so on. Then, suddenly one day, I become a nice guy. Why would that affect anyone but me?
Umm .. because you aren't an angel (as far as I know :) ) and your children don't inherit infernal or celestial bloodlines? :)
It's an old thread but PC Tieflings are free to have whatever alignment they choose. They can always overcome their heritage. So all that might happen is that a little voice inside that had been urging them to be nasty suddenly switches over to urging them to be nice ... either way they are free to ignore it and it likely doesn't change the physical characteristics of the creature unless the DM decides that is what they want for their game world.
Umm .. because you aren't an angel (as far as I know :) ) and your children don't inherit infernal or celestial bloodlines? :)
But I am a Michael, and my son has clearly inherited my Michael bloodline. Why would you think he'd change, just because I do? Or, more specifically, why do you think an inherited trait of any kind would be affected in any way by changes in it's genetical ancestry?
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Umm .. because you aren't an angel (as far as I know :) ) and your children don't inherit infernal or celestial bloodlines? :)
But I am a Michael, and my son has clearly inherited my Michael bloodline. Why would you think he'd change, just because I do? Or, more specifically, why do you think an inherited trait of any kind would be affected in any way by changes in it's genetical ancestry?
Ummm ... magic? :) If we were talking about the real world I would entirely agree with you but we aren't. In D&D, celestials and fiends are the embodiment of certain ways of seeing and interacting with the world. A creature that inherited a bloodline from a specific infernal or celestial which subsequently changed its fundamental nature .. could find that inherited aspect of their character also changed ... because magic (divine or arcane).
It doesn't have to happen that way - what happens is entirely at the DMs discretion - however, if I was running it, I could easily see the justification for nothing changing or for the character having some fundamental aspects of their nature changed depending on how I decided that things would work within the game world I was running.
My personal preference would be that nothing would physically change but that some element of their character might. I think changing the character from Tiefling to Aasimar would be going a bit far but that is just my personal opinion as a DM and has nothing to do with rules. :)
Why would you say it's magic? Are other types of magic inherited genetically?
Well, sure, some are. But no, this is a genetic trait, and it doesn't change because what's-her-name does. What ... if she died, what would become of tieflings? Would they all become human? Nonsense!
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
I don't think this was the case in 5e, but I think prior editions, Tieflings were "beholden" to a devil.
But really, from what I've read in 5e, a tiefling is a collateral consequence of an ancestor having dealings with a devil, not a product by design of the infernal, usually. Zariel redemption does not undo every infernal act she performed prior to that redemption, let alone collateral consequences of her dealings. Maybe there are celestial cults and celestial pact warlocks around this redeemed Zariel trying to make amends former infernal legacy, and maybe know some sort of 'redempton' ritual for Tieflings. Possibly. Could Zariel select particulars among "her" Tieflings and use them say, imbue them with Divine soul sorcery to be her agents/apostles to undo her actions? Maybe.
Basically from a practical running the game standpoint, mandate nothing, if the Tiefling player is interested, give them opportunities, or let them live on as they've been doing. With the Planescape books out the feat Scion of Outer Plane (Good or Lawful options) might be a good boon here, and gives a later feat option if they want to really serve a their redeemed quasi-progenitor.
I would rule that nothing happens to her Tieflings (unless the player wants something to happen). What made Tieflings what they are happened long, long ago. The only way I’d say anything changes is if the player specifically wants something to happen, then I would invent something to accommodate them. But otherwise I’d say there ain’t no changin’ the past.
This is about my answer as well. I would probably make one minor change lore-wise, which is that the blood tie that Zariel tieflings had would be severed by Zariel. But that would not physically impact the tieflings unless the player wanted to have a transformation for their PC similar to Zariel's.
Though I probably would want to address this before playing too. If a player is coming into Descent into Avernus with a Zariel tiefling, it might be an intentional choice that I would want to ask about before the game starts.
I'd say this is a player choice - I'd be reluctant as a DM to mess with a character concept especially as there is no/little established mechanics or lore on the point. Does the player feel it would be cool to now swap in aasimar or do they want to remain a tiefling?
If the party had a role in Zariel's redemption I'd offer a pure boon or boost - it's just too cool not to. When the other players can sense and feel the validity of the boost, that's when it feels most earned and natural, the whole game benefits from and increase of 'reality' or verisimilitude. Perhaps allow the character to take a choice of heritage traits from the different aasimar sub-categories and allow them the narrative control to explain why and how this manifests.
Tieflings may contain part of Zariel's diabolical power but be isolated enough from her to not be effected by the redemption. This would be similar to how her sword contained some of her divine power when she was a devil. Similarly then the tieflings could act as a way to corrupt zariel again as thew sword was an opportunity to redeem her.
Tiefligns diabolic nature has no direct link to zariel. They are corrupted by the hells it self or in way that doesn't link them to zariel. They would then either be left without connection to any lord or the pacts that bind them are transferred.
Tieflings may have power flowing directly from Zariel and so their power changes when it's sources does. Depending on if either zariel or the tiefligns have control of that power and how that power reacts with the tieflings there could be several outcomes a) No one controls the flow and the power is transformative -> all tieflings lose their diabolic nature and become either human or divine beings like aasimar b) No one controls the flow and the power is harmful to diabolic beings like tieflings -> all tieflings become sick or die c) Zariel controls the flow and the power is transformative -> only those zariel decides which tieflings lose their diabolic nature and become either human or divine beings like aasimar. Other tieflings become depowered and either revert to human or keep their demonic appearance d) Zariel controls the flow and the power is is harmful to diabolic beings like tieflings -> zariel seeks out and destroys evil tieflings or those that may be a threat to her using a purifying flow of divine energy e) Tieflings control the flow and the power is transformative -> tieflings that reject redemption lose power and those that accept it lose their diabolic nature and become either human or divine beings like aasimar f) Tieflings control the flow and the power is harmful to diabolic beings like tieflings -> non evil tieflings get sick or die, evil tieflings are depowered.
These are not strict categories so you can mix and match them depending on the kind of story you want. For example using a 1f you get a faction of evil tieflings that reject zariels redemption possibly because it's the only way they can survive but by doing so they represent an existential threat to Zariel. You then have a conflict that tests the mercy of Zariel and her followers and asks the tieflings to make a profound self sacrifice. This also might not be a complete list
Lore wise I think the most likely outcome is a 1c. Where tieflings are reserves of diabolic power but zariel can choose some of them to purify into aasimar depending on her power.
In my campaign Zariel was redeemed and is now a Celestial again. This was planned. However, what I didn’t plan was one of the party members being a SCAG Zariel tiefling. What should happen to the character?
I’m a decent DM and an above average rules lawyer
I have several complete Pokedexes | I may be stupid, but at least I’m not smart!
Stay Paranoid!! My Drummer given title is… Swift as the Dragon
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Hmm, that's an interesting question.
Could go a couple routes, and each needs to be run by the player. Some ideas:
I would rule that the character was tainted by the Hells and that hasn't changed. Zariel was redeemed and any pacts she made she abolishes but that's different than the Nine Hells seeping into the "gene pool".
Of course you can always have Zariel offer purge the taint and change the character into a human.
If it were my table, I'd probably leave the tiefling as-is and have Zariel try to make amends to all of her lineage, exploring what the player wants from that. But since you're seeking ideas...
Another alternative is that the tiefling stays a tiefling, but their magic alters to suit a celestial tie. Fire damage/resistance replaced with radiant. Maybe there are cosmetic differences, too. Skin color changes, horns become a halo, etc.
What does Zariel changing have anything to do with Tieflings that are already born? The infernal bloodline was already established long ago, that bloodline doesn't change even if she's no longer infernal. Same as if Zariel had died, it's not like all Zariel Tieflings would die.
edit: Answer above is from the perspective of what would be the most "realistic". As the DM you should always feel free to do whatever you think make the story the coolest and most impactful.
I would say all Zariel tieflings would mechanically stay the same but they would change appearance to more match the angel Zariel. Perhaps their skin/ hair/ eyes change to a more heavenly color. Maybe they lose their horns and devilish characteristics. Take inspiration form the aasimar description. Any purely cosmetic changes would keep everything balanced while still reflecting Zariel's redemption.
I would rule that nothing happens to her Tieflings (unless the player wants something to happen). What made Tieflings what they are happened long, long ago. The only way I’d say anything changes is if the player specifically wants something to happen, then I would invent something to accommodate them. But otherwise I’d say there ain’t no changin’ the past.
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think what zariel was once and is again, an angel of BATTLE. she fell on purpouse to fight demons better, so the tieflings would becoe some kind of martial focused aasimar subrace
Pronouns: Any/All
About Me: Godless monster in human form bent on extending their natural life to unnatural extremes /general of the goose horde /Moderator of Vinstreb School for the Gifted /holder of the evil storyteller badge of no honor /king of madness /The FBI/ The Archmage of I CAST...!
Alignment: Lawful Evil
Fun Fact: i gain more power the more you post on my forum threads. MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!
I'm curious to know the outcome of this!!
Personally... I don't see why a tiefling can't be "redeemed" if an angel can become a devil and then back to an angel again. The argument of genetics seems invalid in a world of magical bloodlines. A retroactive change could pulse back through the bloodline changing tieflings to aasimar if they so choose. It really comes down to what the player wants, though. Do they want to be "redeemed" along with Zariel and to what extent? A simple change in flavoring of appearance, spells and abilities or a full change of race with the loss of all fiend traits and replaced with celestial ones.
Nothing.
Say I live for 100 generations, the children of my children having more children, and so on. Then, suddenly one day, I become a nice guy. Why would that affect anyone but me?
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Umm .. because you aren't an angel (as far as I know :) ) and your children don't inherit infernal or celestial bloodlines? :)
It's an old thread but PC Tieflings are free to have whatever alignment they choose. They can always overcome their heritage. So all that might happen is that a little voice inside that had been urging them to be nasty suddenly switches over to urging them to be nice ... either way they are free to ignore it and it likely doesn't change the physical characteristics of the creature unless the DM decides that is what they want for their game world.
But I am a Michael, and my son has clearly inherited my Michael bloodline. Why would you think he'd change, just because I do? Or, more specifically, why do you think an inherited trait of any kind would be affected in any way by changes in it's genetical ancestry?
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Ummm ... magic? :) If we were talking about the real world I would entirely agree with you but we aren't. In D&D, celestials and fiends are the embodiment of certain ways of seeing and interacting with the world. A creature that inherited a bloodline from a specific infernal or celestial which subsequently changed its fundamental nature .. could find that inherited aspect of their character also changed ... because magic (divine or arcane).
It doesn't have to happen that way - what happens is entirely at the DMs discretion - however, if I was running it, I could easily see the justification for nothing changing or for the character having some fundamental aspects of their nature changed depending on how I decided that things would work within the game world I was running.
My personal preference would be that nothing would physically change but that some element of their character might. I think changing the character from Tiefling to Aasimar would be going a bit far but that is just my personal opinion as a DM and has nothing to do with rules. :)
Why would you say it's magic? Are other types of magic inherited genetically?
Well, sure, some are. But no, this is a genetic trait, and it doesn't change because what's-her-name does. What ... if she died, what would become of tieflings? Would they all become human? Nonsense!
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
I don't think this was the case in 5e, but I think prior editions, Tieflings were "beholden" to a devil.
But really, from what I've read in 5e, a tiefling is a collateral consequence of an ancestor having dealings with a devil, not a product by design of the infernal, usually. Zariel redemption does not undo every infernal act she performed prior to that redemption, let alone collateral consequences of her dealings. Maybe there are celestial cults and celestial pact warlocks around this redeemed Zariel trying to make amends former infernal legacy, and maybe know some sort of 'redempton' ritual for Tieflings. Possibly. Could Zariel select particulars among "her" Tieflings and use them say, imbue them with Divine soul sorcery to be her agents/apostles to undo her actions? Maybe.
Basically from a practical running the game standpoint, mandate nothing, if the Tiefling player is interested, give them opportunities, or let them live on as they've been doing. With the Planescape books out the feat Scion of Outer Plane (Good or Lawful options) might be a good boon here, and gives a later feat option if they want to really serve a their redeemed quasi-progenitor.
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This is about my answer as well. I would probably make one minor change lore-wise, which is that the blood tie that Zariel tieflings had would be severed by Zariel. But that would not physically impact the tieflings unless the player wanted to have a transformation for their PC similar to Zariel's.
Though I probably would want to address this before playing too. If a player is coming into Descent into Avernus with a Zariel tiefling, it might be an intentional choice that I would want to ask about before the game starts.
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I'd say this is a player choice - I'd be reluctant as a DM to mess with a character concept especially as there is no/little established mechanics or lore on the point. Does the player feel it would be cool to now swap in aasimar or do they want to remain a tiefling?
If the party had a role in Zariel's redemption I'd offer a pure boon or boost - it's just too cool not to. When the other players can sense and feel the validity of the boost, that's when it feels most earned and natural, the whole game benefits from and increase of 'reality' or verisimilitude. Perhaps allow the character to take a choice of heritage traits from the different aasimar sub-categories and allow them the narrative control to explain why and how this manifests.
Because we can all level up
There are a lot of options
a) No one controls the flow and the power is transformative -> all tieflings lose their diabolic nature and become either human or divine beings like aasimar
b) No one controls the flow and the power is harmful to diabolic beings like tieflings -> all tieflings become sick or die
c) Zariel controls the flow and the power is transformative -> only those zariel decides which tieflings lose their diabolic nature and become either human or divine beings like aasimar. Other tieflings become depowered and either revert to human or keep their demonic appearance
d) Zariel controls the flow and the power is is harmful to diabolic beings like tieflings -> zariel seeks out and destroys evil tieflings or those that may be a threat to her using a purifying flow of divine energy
e) Tieflings control the flow and the power is transformative -> tieflings that reject redemption lose power and those that accept it lose their diabolic nature and become either human or divine beings like aasimar
f) Tieflings control the flow and the power is harmful to diabolic beings like tieflings -> non evil tieflings get sick or die, evil tieflings are depowered.
These are not strict categories so you can mix and match them depending on the kind of story you want. For example using a 1f you get a faction of evil tieflings that reject zariels redemption possibly because it's the only way they can survive but by doing so they represent an existential threat to Zariel. You then have a conflict that tests the mercy of Zariel and her followers and asks the tieflings to make a profound self sacrifice. This also might not be a complete list
Lore wise I think the most likely outcome is a 1c. Where tieflings are reserves of diabolic power but zariel can choose some of them to purify into aasimar depending on her power.