I was looking at the Summoner variants of the Mephits (and demons) and I was thinking it's an odd port of a 2e idea that could have done better. It struck me that perhaps the "recharge" rule would be better.
Right now it's weird to balance because an ice mephit summoner XP is 75% chance of being 100, but with a 6% Chance of the xp being 1000 xp which is weirdly swingy.
A summoner Balor has a 50% chance of having XP of 22,000, but a 6% chance of being an 101000 xp encounter if it summons 8 vrocks. (however you can focus fire on the Balor and then suddenly the math becomes non-predictive of the threat)
This is so swingy that it is almost unusable. However I feel that using the recharge mechanic would bring it much more inline with something you could balance, and would get across the idea that it would be a monster that keeps summoning more monsters for as long as it is in play. I feel like this would work really well as a legendary version too, since adding more monsters give more monster actions. But I need some more ideas how to make this work and perhaps even what the XP math would be to get a CR rating.
So instead of Ice Mephit (Summoner variant) would have the following action:
Summon Mephits (Recharge 5–6). The mephit summons 1d4 mephits of its kind. A summoned mephit appears in an unoccupied space within 60 feet of its summoner, acts as an ally of its summoner, and can’t summon other mephits. It remains for 1 minute, until it or its summoner dies, or until its summoner dismisses it as an action.
Instead of there being a chance that nothing happens it will summon at least 1 mephit, and probably fairly reliable that it will summon 4 mephits in the course of the fight, and more if the Mephit gets lucky or uses clever tactics, but their HP would be tied to the summoner Mephits survivability
For a Balor I would probably do the following:
Summon Demon(Recharge 6). The demon summons allies from the Abyss. The first time in an encounter the uses this power roll a 4 and consults the following table.
1: 3 vrocks
2: 2 Hezrous
3: 1 Glabrezus
4: 1 Nalfeshnees
Each time this power recharges it will summon the same type of demon. A summoned demon appears in an unoccupied space within 60 feet of its summoner, acts as an ally of its summoner, and can’t summon other demons. It remains for 1 minute, until it or its summoner dies, or until its summoner dismisses it as an action.
The kind of randomness included in those monsters just doesn't appeal to me at all. It slows down the game and potentially skyrockets encounter difficulty for no other benefit besides, "ooh look, the DM is surprised too!"
If I run a summoner Balor, I'm going to pick out what it summons ahead of time with an eye for what would actually challenge the players and make for a fun encounter. And it's going to be 100% successful at doing so if it gets a chance to try. If I run multiple Balors, I'll certainly mix it up to keep the players uncertain of what is going to appear. But I don't want to be uncertain. I just don't see the benefit in it.
If I did want to keep a random element in the mix, I think your solution seems like a good one.
From a game standpoint I see it as a fun combat challenge to have a target that must be killed as it keeps spitting out new monsters and sets up a unique challenge. I think of it like why does the vampire regenerate and not just have more hit points, it creates a dynamic that could make a combat more engaging. Ironically, randomness has to be mildly predicatble (there will likely be 2 new demons every 3 rounds so half of us want to focus on the Balor) for the players to feel like they can make solid choices, while still giving the suspense of not knowing exactly what will happen (oh no he rolled 2 sixes in a row!!!!)
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I was looking at the Summoner variants of the Mephits (and demons) and I was thinking it's an odd port of a 2e idea that could have done better. It struck me that perhaps the "recharge" rule would be better.
Right now it's weird to balance because an ice mephit summoner XP is 75% chance of being 100, but with a 6% Chance of the xp being 1000 xp which is weirdly swingy.
A summoner Balor has a 50% chance of having XP of 22,000, but a 6% chance of being an 101000 xp encounter if it summons 8 vrocks. (however you can focus fire on the Balor and then suddenly the math becomes non-predictive of the threat)
This is so swingy that it is almost unusable. However I feel that using the recharge mechanic would bring it much more inline with something you could balance, and would get across the idea that it would be a monster that keeps summoning more monsters for as long as it is in play. I feel like this would work really well as a legendary version too, since adding more monsters give more monster actions. But I need some more ideas how to make this work and perhaps even what the XP math would be to get a CR rating.
So instead of Ice Mephit (Summoner variant) would have the following action:
Summon Mephits (Recharge 5–6). The mephit summons 1d4
mephits of its kind. A summoned mephit appears in an unoccupied space within 60 feet of its summoner, acts as an ally of its summoner, and can’t summon other mephits. It remains for 1 minute, until it or its summoner dies, or until its summoner dismisses it as an action.
Instead of there being a chance that nothing happens it will summon at least 1 mephit, and probably fairly reliable that it will summon 4 mephits in the course of the fight, and more if the Mephit gets lucky or uses clever tactics, but their HP would be tied to the summoner Mephits survivability
For a Balor I would probably do the following:
Summon Demon(Recharge 6). The demon summons allies from the Abyss. The first time in an encounter the uses this power roll a 4 and consults the following table.
1: 3 vrocks
2: 2 Hezrous
3: 1 Glabrezus
4: 1 Nalfeshnees
Each time this power recharges it will summon the same type of demon. A summoned demon appears in an unoccupied space within 60 feet of its summoner, acts as an ally of its summoner, and can’t summon other demons. It remains for 1 minute, until it or its summoner dies, or until its summoner dismisses it as an action.
so any reccomendations on how to develop a CR
The kind of randomness included in those monsters just doesn't appeal to me at all. It slows down the game and potentially skyrockets encounter difficulty for no other benefit besides, "ooh look, the DM is surprised too!"
If I run a summoner Balor, I'm going to pick out what it summons ahead of time with an eye for what would actually challenge the players and make for a fun encounter. And it's going to be 100% successful at doing so if it gets a chance to try. If I run multiple Balors, I'll certainly mix it up to keep the players uncertain of what is going to appear. But I don't want to be uncertain. I just don't see the benefit in it.
If I did want to keep a random element in the mix, I think your solution seems like a good one.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
From a game standpoint I see it as a fun combat challenge to have a target that must be killed as it keeps spitting out new monsters and sets up a unique challenge. I think of it like why does the vampire regenerate and not just have more hit points, it creates a dynamic that could make a combat more engaging. Ironically, randomness has to be mildly predicatble (there will likely be 2 new demons every 3 rounds so half of us want to focus on the Balor) for the players to feel like they can make solid choices, while still giving the suspense of not knowing exactly what will happen (oh no he rolled 2 sixes in a row!!!!)