I've started this thread to discuss alternative house rules for darts and shurikens in Dungeons & Dragons 5th Edition. Currently, these two weapons share the same game statistics, but I believe they could have unique rules that better reflect their real-world use.
Here's my suggestion for updated dart/shuriken rules:
Damage: 1 hit point of piercing damage. Properties: Finesse, Thrown (range 20/60), Light, Special.
Now, for the "Special" rules: When you choose to attack with shurikens/darts, roll a d6. Divide the result by two if one of your hands is occupied. The final number determines the maximum amount of shurikens/darts you can use in this turn. You can distribute them between your hands, with a limit of three in each hand. You have the option to make an attack with all the shurikens/darts in one hand as an action and do the same with those in the other hand as a bonus action. Keep in mind, if you have more than two shurikens/darts in one hand, you'll attack with disadvantage. A successful attack means all the shurikens/darts hit.
Wizards of the Coast (WotC) didn't implement this because of the dagger, which shares similarities with shurikens/darts. Shurikens/darts are lighter and cheaper than daggers, while daggers can be dual-wielded and don't suffer melee disadvantage. To maintain balance, we need to either strengthen the dagger or adjust the shuriken/dart. Options include reducing the cost of the dagger, making shurikens/darts more expensive, removing the Finesse property from shurikens/darts to restrict them to high-dexterity characters, or altering the dagger's damage to 1d6 piercing (which would require changes to other weapons). In this thread, let's collectively explore alternative rules to make shurikens/darts more realistic in the D&D world. Feel as free as a laser rifle in the DMG to share your thoughts!
What you have to understand is that a dart isn’t like the kind of darts you throw at a dartboard. It’s like a small, weighted javelin the size of a dagger:
What you’re describing would work for something like throwing stars, but that would be adding a new weapon to D&D. Not that there’s anything wrong with that, I think there should be a greater variety of weapons in D&D. But that doesn’t work for the dart as they existed back in the day.
What you have to understand is that a dart isn’t like the kind of darts you throw at a dartboard. It’s like a small, weighted javelin the size of a dagger:
What you’re describing would work for something like throwing stars, but that would be adding a new weapon to D&D. Not that there’s anything wrong with that, I think there should be a greater variety of weapons in D&D. But that doesn’t work for the dart as they existed back in the day.
Okay, I DID think that was the kind of darts you throw at a dartboard. However, shurikens are still an official option, so we could leave the dart the same way it was always but still make alternative rules for shurikens.
Like I said, adding shuriken as an additional weapon to the game and having them work that way should be okay. I would probably simplify it to just 1d4 shuriken that each do 1 damage with a single attack roll for the lot to speed up gameplay (since rolling 4 attacks that would each only deal 1 damage would be tedious) and reduce mathing (since apparently people find basic arithmetic like 1d6÷2 difficulty 🤷♂️), but then that ends up being essentially the same as the rules for a dart now. So you could always just throw “1 dart” and roll for attack and damage as normal, but instead of imagining it as throwing a single shuriken and having it deal 1d4 damage, that instead you’re throwing 4 of them that each do 1 damage and only 1d4 of them hit on a successful attack, and that none of them hit on an unsuccessful attack.
Damage: 1 hit point of piercing damage. Properties: Finesse, Thrown (range 20/60), Light, Special.
Now, for the "Special" rules: When you choose to attack with shurikens/darts, roll a d6. Divide the result by two if one of your hands is occupied. The final number determines the maximum amount of shurikens/darts you can use in this turn. You can distribute them between your hands, with a limit of three in each hand. You have the option to make an attack with all the shurikens/darts in one hand as an action and do the same with those in the other hand as a bonus action. Keep in mind, if you have more than two shurikens/darts in one hand, you'll attack with disadvantage. A successful attack means all the shurikens/darts hit.
The problem with this item is that it completely overrides Extra Attack. That fact alone means that there's no reason for a Rogue to use anything but darts/shurikens for all of time, and also that literally anybody has the potential to do more weapon damage than martials from levels 1-4, and quite possibly beyond. Every class has proficiency in darts. It's also very weird to roll for the number of attacks you do, and I can imagine the disadvantage with multiple darts in one hand thing being a bit awkward to figure out in practice.
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Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
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Not that I'm against introducing Shurikens with special rules, but I kind of feel like the idea of shurikens as re-flavored darts with special rules that allow you to attack multiple times feels clunky... I feel like you could get a similar feel by just flavoring your damage dealt by saying it represents using multiple shuriken simultaneously... mechanically, on paper, you're just spending on dart to attack, and let's say you deal 6 damage in your attack, and you just flavor that as, "I threw 6 shuriken and each one dealt 1 damage". As long as you're not getting up and gathering each individual shuriken and treating it as a single dart in your inventory, it's just a fun way to describe what you're doing.
Not that I'm against introducing Shurikens with special rules, but I kind of feel like the idea of shurikens as re-flavored darts with special rules that allow you to attack multiple times feels clunky... I feel like you could get a similar feel by just flavoring your damage dealt by saying it represents using multiple shuriken simultaneously... mechanically, on paper, you're just spending on dart to attack, and let's say you deal 6 damage in your attack, and you just flavor that as, "I threw 6 shuriken and each one dealt 1 damage". As long as you're not getting up and gathering each individual shuriken and treating it as a single dart in your inventory, it's just a fun way to describe what you're doing.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
Damage: 1 hit point of piercing damage. Properties: Finesse, Thrown (range 20/60), Light, Special.
Now, for the "Special" rules: When you choose to attack with shurikens/darts, roll a d6. Divide the result by two if one of your hands is occupied. The final number determines the maximum amount of shurikens/darts you can use in this turn. You can distribute them between your hands, with a limit of three in each hand. You have the option to make an attack with all the shurikens/darts in one hand as an action and do the same with those in the other hand as a bonus action. Keep in mind, if you have more than two shurikens/darts in one hand, you'll attack with disadvantage. A successful attack means all the shurikens/darts hit.
The problem with this item is that it completely overrides Extra Attack. That fact alone means that there's no reason for a Rogue to use anything but darts/shurikens for all of time, and also that literally anybody has the potential to do more weapon damage than martials from levels 1-4, and quite possibly beyond. Every class has proficiency in darts. It's also very weird to roll for the number of attacks you do, and I can imagine the disadvantage with multiple darts in one hand thing being a bit awkward to figure out in practice.
Well, that’s kinda the idea behind the random number of darts I think, which is not entirely uncommon in other games. If it were me I would simplify to making a single attack roll and if the attack is successful it results in 1d3 hits which each do 1 damage and the modifier would get added to the whole attack, not per dart. The advantage being that you could essentially use two-weapon fighting to spend your bonus action to make an additional attack for another 1d3 hits that each deal 1 damage and no modifier to the damage for the second attack unless you had the right Fighting Style as per the normal T-WF rules. The problem with that would be that D&D doesn’t officially recognize a d3 and people don’t like dividing d6 results because “math is hard” or something. 🙄
Well, technically, if you look at the Moon card...
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Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
The concern with lots of attacks is that it will stack up quickly. If I were to try to break this, I would have a Bugbear Ranger with Hunters Mark.
In round 1, I would throw 1d6 shurikens - let's say I roll a 4 - and if they hit, I'm dealing an additional 12d6 damage - 2d6 per attack from the Bugbear, and 1d6 per attack from the Hunters Mark.
If I were to think on what a Shuriken is supposed to do, I would stat it like this:
thrown, light, special. Range 20/40.
special: The Shuriken can only be thrown. On a successful hit, it deals 1d4 piercing damage. A Shuriken may be drawn as part of each attack.
This way it is like a less optimal version of the Thrown Weapon Fighting ability, but dedicated to a short range option (Shurikens shouldn't be good at any long range). It also lets you use multiattack whilst holding another weapon, which is very shuriken-y.
The same d notation appears in the expressions “1d3” and “1d2.” To simulate the roll of 1d3, roll a d6 and divide the number rolled by 2 (round up). To simulate the roll of 1d2, roll any die and assign a 1 or 2 to the roll depending on whether it was odd or even. (Alternatively, if the number rolled is more than half the number of sides on the die, it’s a 2.)
So no, it doesn’t officially recognize the d3, which is why DDB doesn’t offer one, despite the fact that many magic items recharge Xd3 charges each dawn. I had this debate with a Mod once who explained it to me. D&D doesn’t officially recognize the d3 as an actual die because one doesn’t come in the standard set of dice.
.. darts and shurikens in Dungeons & Dragons 5th Edition. Currently, these two weapons share the same game statistics,...
RAW, this isn't two weapons....its one weapon with two different names. See the 'Flavors of Fantasy' section of the DMG. If you want a shuriken to be a different weapon...make it a different weapon and leave dart as-is.
The same d notation appears in the expressions “1d3” and “1d2.” To simulate the roll of 1d3, roll a d6 and divide the number rolled by 2 (round up). To simulate the roll of 1d2, roll any die and assign a 1 or 2 to the roll depending on whether it was odd or even. (Alternatively, if the number rolled is more than half the number of sides on the die, it’s a 2.)
So no, it doesn’t officially recognize the d3, which is why DDB doesn’t offer one, despite the fact that many magic items recharge Xd3 charges each dawn. I had this debate with a Mod once who explained it to me. D&D doesn’t officially recognize the d3 as an actual die because one doesn’t come in the standard set of dice.
Ah, I see. I didn't realize you were referring to the d3 as a physical object instead of as a mechanical possibility.
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Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
The same d notation appears in the expressions “1d3” and “1d2.” To simulate the roll of 1d3, roll a d6 and divide the number rolled by 2 (round up). To simulate the roll of 1d2, roll any die and assign a 1 or 2 to the roll depending on whether it was odd or even. (Alternatively, if the number rolled is more than half the number of sides on the die, it’s a 2.)
So no, it doesn’t officially recognize the d3, which is why DDB doesn’t offer one, despite the fact that many magic items recharge Xd3 charges each dawn. I had this debate with a Mod once who explained it to me. D&D doesn’t officially recognize the d3 as an actual die because one doesn’t come in the standard set of dice.
Ah, I see. I didn't realize you were referring to the d3 as a physical object instead of as a mechanical possibility.
Ahh, yeah. I have several d3s, they’re useful for lots of games including WH40k, D&D, and others as well. Most of the ones I have are cubes with sides numbered 1-3 twice. They’re essentially 1d6 with the ÷2 already built in, but D&D (and therefore DDB) don’t recognize it. I even asked why DDB doesn’t just implement the d3 as a 1d6 in the dice roller and have it divide the result by 2 and round it for us automatically (just like RAW tells us to do) and just list it in the content builder as a “d3” for the Dev’s convenience, but was told to that the rules say the player is to do it so it’s up to the player to do it for themselves, and therefore the d3 won’t be implemented into DDB’s system for any reason even though several magic items make reference to them. 🤷♂️ Apparently that’s how “officially unrecognized” the d3 is by WotC. Blew my mind.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
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Hmmmm... What should we do then? We want to make shurikens available to be held in one hand in quantities, but if we make them deal only one hit point per shuriken and one attack per hand, then we know exactly what is the damage of each attack and the thing is plain broken with the ability modifiers. I actually thought of another thing: make the shurikens deal 1d2 damage for each shuriken in the hand, but remove the finesse (why would strength help you while doing ninja shenanigans?) and make the darts expensiver, maybe 5 silver pieces for a unit. that way, the best attack you can make without disadvantage is in average 3 damage points plus your dexterity, if you are lucky with that d6, you can make another 3, and if you have luck with the d20 and the d6, you might make 9 piercing damage plus your dexterity modifier with the six shurikens and two disadvantage attacks. That is really strong for a weapon you can buy 20 of it in 10 gold pieces, but you will need luck with the d6 and luck with four d20s to make this attack. With the best odds, you will have two shurikens in one hand and one or two shurikens at the other one, and will probably not succeed both attacks, so you will make only 2d2 piercing damage. It kind of solves the problem with the dagger two. Share thoughts and changes, I am seeking for this thread to become a finished unofficial rule that will be used in wuxia campaigns that feel cool!
What I'm primarily hearing in the responses is that we should do nothing. Darts (reflavored as shurikens) should be an attack that deals 1d4 + DEX damage (reflavored to be as many separate shurikens hitting the enemy as you like). In exactly the same way that a monk making three attacks can flavor their assault to be a flurry of dozens of blows, some blocked and some getting through.
Rule #1 of homebrew - don't make up new rules when reflavoring will do.
Hey there!
I've started this thread to discuss alternative house rules for darts and shurikens in Dungeons & Dragons 5th Edition. Currently, these two weapons share the same game statistics, but I believe they could have unique rules that better reflect their real-world use.
Here's my suggestion for updated dart/shuriken rules:
Damage: 1 hit point of piercing damage. Properties: Finesse, Thrown (range 20/60), Light, Special.
Now, for the "Special" rules: When you choose to attack with shurikens/darts, roll a d6. Divide the result by two if one of your hands is occupied. The final number determines the maximum amount of shurikens/darts you can use in this turn. You can distribute them between your hands, with a limit of three in each hand. You have the option to make an attack with all the shurikens/darts in one hand as an action and do the same with those in the other hand as a bonus action. Keep in mind, if you have more than two shurikens/darts in one hand, you'll attack with disadvantage. A successful attack means all the shurikens/darts hit.
Wizards of the Coast (WotC) didn't implement this because of the dagger, which shares similarities with shurikens/darts. Shurikens/darts are lighter and cheaper than daggers, while daggers can be dual-wielded and don't suffer melee disadvantage. To maintain balance, we need to either strengthen the dagger or adjust the shuriken/dart. Options include reducing the cost of the dagger, making shurikens/darts more expensive, removing the Finesse property from shurikens/darts to restrict them to high-dexterity characters, or altering the dagger's damage to 1d6 piercing (which would require changes to other weapons). In this thread, let's collectively explore alternative rules to make shurikens/darts more realistic in the D&D world. Feel as free as a laser rifle in the DMG to share your thoughts!
By the way I'm a titan so please don't annoy me.
What you have to understand is that a dart isn’t like the kind of darts you throw at a dartboard. It’s like a small, weighted javelin the size of a dagger:
What you’re describing would work for something like throwing stars, but that would be adding a new weapon to D&D. Not that there’s anything wrong with that, I think there should be a greater variety of weapons in D&D. But that doesn’t work for the dart as they existed back in the day.
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Okay, I DID think that was the kind of darts you throw at a dartboard. However, shurikens are still an official option, so we could leave the dart the same way it was always but still make alternative rules for shurikens.
By the way I'm a titan so please don't annoy me.
Like I said, adding shuriken as an additional weapon to the game and having them work that way should be okay. I would probably simplify it to just 1d4 shuriken that each do 1 damage with a single attack roll for the lot to speed up gameplay (since rolling 4 attacks that would each only deal 1 damage would be tedious) and reduce mathing (since apparently people find basic arithmetic like 1d6÷2 difficulty 🤷♂️), but then that ends up being essentially the same as the rules for a dart now. So you could always just throw “1 dart” and roll for attack and damage as normal, but instead of imagining it as throwing a single shuriken and having it deal 1d4 damage, that instead you’re throwing 4 of them that each do 1 damage and only 1d4 of them hit on a successful attack, and that none of them hit on an unsuccessful attack.
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The problem with this item is that it completely overrides Extra Attack. That fact alone means that there's no reason for a Rogue to use anything but darts/shurikens for all of time, and also that literally anybody has the potential to do more weapon damage than martials from levels 1-4, and quite possibly beyond. Every class has proficiency in darts. It's also very weird to roll for the number of attacks you do, and I can imagine the disadvantage with multiple darts in one hand thing being a bit awkward to figure out in practice.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
Not that I'm against introducing Shurikens with special rules, but I kind of feel like the idea of shurikens as re-flavored darts with special rules that allow you to attack multiple times feels clunky... I feel like you could get a similar feel by just flavoring your damage dealt by saying it represents using multiple shuriken simultaneously... mechanically, on paper, you're just spending on dart to attack, and let's say you deal 6 damage in your attack, and you just flavor that as, "I threw 6 shuriken and each one dealt 1 damage". As long as you're not getting up and gathering each individual shuriken and treating it as a single dart in your inventory, it's just a fun way to describe what you're doing.
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That’s essentially what I suggested too.
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Hang on, there's something I think is confusing people (or maybe me). You add your modifier to the damage, don't you?
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
Well, that’s kinda the idea behind the random number of darts I think, which is not entirely uncommon in other games. If it were me I would simplify to making a single attack roll and if the attack is successful it results in 1d3 hits which each do 1 damage and the modifier would get added to the whole attack, not per dart. The advantage being that you could essentially use two-weapon fighting to spend your bonus action to make an additional attack for another 1d3 hits that each deal 1 damage and no modifier to the damage for the second attack unless you had the right Fighting Style as per the normal T-WF rules. The problem with that would be that D&D doesn’t officially recognize a d3 and people don’t like dividing d6 results because “math is hard” or something. 🙄
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Well, technically, if you look at the Moon card...
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
The concern with lots of attacks is that it will stack up quickly. If I were to try to break this, I would have a Bugbear Ranger with Hunters Mark.
In round 1, I would throw 1d6 shurikens - let's say I roll a 4 - and if they hit, I'm dealing an additional 12d6 damage - 2d6 per attack from the Bugbear, and 1d6 per attack from the Hunters Mark.
If I were to think on what a Shuriken is supposed to do, I would stat it like this:
thrown, light, special. Range 20/40.
special: The Shuriken can only be thrown. On a successful hit, it deals 1d4 piercing damage. A Shuriken may be drawn as part of each attack.
This way it is like a less optimal version of the Thrown Weapon Fighting ability, but dedicated to a short range option (Shurikens shouldn't be good at any long range). It also lets you use multiattack whilst holding another weapon, which is very shuriken-y.
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If you look at the intro to either the Basic Rules or PHB, in the Game Dice section you will see:
So no, it doesn’t officially recognize the d3, which is why DDB doesn’t offer one, despite the fact that many magic items recharge Xd3 charges each dawn. I had this debate with a Mod once who explained it to me. D&D doesn’t officially recognize the d3 as an actual die because one doesn’t come in the standard set of dice.
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RAW, this isn't two weapons....its one weapon with two different names. See the 'Flavors of Fantasy' section of the DMG. If you want a shuriken to be a different weapon...make it a different weapon and leave dart as-is.
imo.
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Ah, I see. I didn't realize you were referring to the d3 as a physical object instead of as a mechanical possibility.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
Ahh, yeah. I have several d3s, they’re useful for lots of games including WH40k, D&D, and others as well. Most of the ones I have are cubes with sides numbered 1-3 twice. They’re essentially 1d6 with the ÷2 already built in, but D&D (and therefore DDB) don’t recognize it. I even asked why DDB doesn’t just implement the d3 as a 1d6 in the dice roller and have it divide the result by 2 and round it for us automatically (just like RAW tells us to do) and just list it in the content builder as a “d3” for the Dev’s convenience, but was told to that the rules say the player is to do it so it’s up to the player to do it for themselves, and therefore the d3 won’t be implemented into DDB’s system for any reason even though several magic items make reference to them. 🤷♂️ Apparently that’s how “officially unrecognized” the d3 is by WotC. Blew my mind.
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Was this thread some kinda summoning ritual?
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
Hmmmm... What should we do then? We want to make shurikens available to be held in one hand in quantities, but if we make them deal only one hit point per shuriken and one attack per hand, then we know exactly what is the damage of each attack and the thing is plain broken with the ability modifiers. I actually thought of another thing: make the shurikens deal 1d2 damage for each shuriken in the hand, but remove the finesse (why would strength help you while doing ninja shenanigans?) and make the darts expensiver, maybe 5 silver pieces for a unit. that way, the best attack you can make without disadvantage is in average 3 damage points plus your dexterity, if you are lucky with that d6, you can make another 3, and if you have luck with the d20 and the d6, you might make 9 piercing damage plus your dexterity modifier with the six shurikens and two disadvantage attacks. That is really strong for a weapon you can buy 20 of it in 10 gold pieces, but you will need luck with the d6 and luck with four d20s to make this attack. With the best odds, you will have two shurikens in one hand and one or two shurikens at the other one, and will probably not succeed both attacks, so you will make only 2d2 piercing damage. It kind of solves the problem with the dagger two. Share thoughts and changes, I am seeking for this thread to become a finished unofficial rule that will be used in wuxia campaigns that feel cool!
By the way I'm a titan so please don't annoy me.
What I'm primarily hearing in the responses is that we should do nothing. Darts (reflavored as shurikens) should be an attack that deals 1d4 + DEX damage (reflavored to be as many separate shurikens hitting the enemy as you like). In exactly the same way that a monk making three attacks can flavor their assault to be a flurry of dozens of blows, some blocked and some getting through.
Rule #1 of homebrew - don't make up new rules when reflavoring will do.
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(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm