So it's really easy to find posts about "highest single round burst damage" and the like, but my question specifically is:
What is a good 'average' damage for a character being built to do damage? Not a single round burst, but sustained over multiple rounds. (More or less, without using any limited abilities or spells.)
For instance, I have a fighter/bladelock character that can attack twice with her rapier, doing 1d8+13 per attack without any smites, hexes, or curses thrown in.
Depends on what assumptions you want to make, but a melee character who cares passionately about damage will usually grab GWM. One of the usual assumptions made here is that people ignore accuracy, so GWM looks better on paper than it is (it's fantastic and well worth taking, note, it's just a double fallacy to ignore that its damage doesn't crit and that it makes you less likely to hit).
You also need to be clear what resources you want to allow - are per long rest abilities allowed? If not, barbarian rage is out. Short rest? If not, Hex and Hunter's Mark. And so on. Most fighter subclasses consume resources, note.
Keeping things monoclass to stay sane, and sticking to being completely resourceless, two obvious low-hanging fruits are a random fighter, a ranger from any of the myriad subclasses offering extra damage 1/turn, and a pactbladed genielock. I'll list the dpr for a swarmkeeper, since I happen to have Tasha's out. I'm assuming a greatsword, and S16.
2*(7+3+10)+3.5 = 43.5. 40 for anyone with a greatsword, S16, extra attack, and GWM.
See how GWM added *twenty*? That's why it and Sharpshooter (for ranged builds) are generally critical to weapon dpr success.
Most of the accuracy buffs I know of cost resources, like Bless, but e.g. Find Familiar for an owl will work (far more relevant for an Eldritch Knight at 5-6, unless you have an Artificer in the party to make you one). Without one, frankly a -5 to hit penalty on someone with a +6 to hit is often a poor choice.
I usually use agonizing blast as my baseline for decent damage.
level 1-4: d10+stat
level 5-10: 2 x (d10+stat)
level 11-16: 3 x (d10+stat)
level 17-20: 4 x (d10+stat)
This can be done by any warlock with one invocation and can be accomplished while using a shield.
The most common ways to exceed this level of damage are through bonus action attacks and damage that stacks on each attack like hex, hunter's mark and divine favor (or dueling fighting style and rage).
The other way to possibly do significantly more damage are the GWM and SS feats but the -5 to hit does significantly reduce the to hit probability and resulting average damage. If the character has reliable methods of obtaining advantage on attack rolls (reckless attack, darkness+devils sight, greater invisibility) then these become more effective but the odds of hitting without the penalty will always be larger than with it and if each miss forgoes significant damage then the +10 may not be sufficient to compensate resulting in lower average damage and higher bursts depending on luck.
P.S. If you want some comparisons.
Assume stat is +4 at level 5.
Agonizing blast = 2 x (d10+4) = 19 average
Monk level 5 = 2 x (d8+4) + d6 +4 = 24.5 average
Any extra attack melee martial class (fighter/paladin etc) = 2 x (2d6 +4 ) = 24.6 (greatsword with GWF - no shield)
or 2 (d8 + 4 + 2) = 21 (long sword with dueling fighting style + shield)
or 3 (d6 + 4) = 22.5 (duel wield short swords with two weapon fighting style - no shield)
Barbarians are a bit different since reckless attack greatly increases to hit chances at the expense of being hit.
Ranged attackers with Archery fighting style are also a bit different since the damage is a bit lower at 2x (d8+4) = 15 average (assuming a long bow) but the to hit probability is higher which probably brings it to similar numbers as above.
PAM and Crossbow expert give bonus action attacks for melee and ranged respectively with certain weapons.
Level 5:
PAM with glaive = 2x (d10+4) + (d4+4) = 25.5
PAM with spear and dueling fighting style + shield = 2x (d6 +4 +2) + (d4 +4 +2) = 26.5
Xbow Expert with hand crossbow = 3 x (d6+4) = 22.5 but also has the increased to hit accuracy of the Archery fighting style (if obtainable)
As mentioned GWM and SS aren't really significant in the discussion since I find that the -5 is a sufficient penalty until tier 3 or so except in cases like a gloomstalker ranger who can regularly obtain advantage on attacks. However, the other properties of sharpshooter - ignore cover and extended range can be very worthwhile by themselves so it can be worthwhile taking early.
I usually use Rogue as an idea for baseline, since they are only meant to attack once and get Sneak Attack to scale that one attack all the way to level 20.
At level 5, it's 1d6+4 + 3d6 = 18 avg, 19 with a rapier. Booming Blade or TWF will kick this up more, but I don't consider those to be baseline.
Given that, it's a little low compared to some of the builds that just got Extra Attacks, but those classes tend to jump up in steps while Rogue scales steadily all the way.
A good median damage would be enough to down a boss monster in 10 rounds by yourself, so it depends on the enemies you will face in a campaign ultimately
(I legit didn't know this thread got more replies, sorry.)
I was specifically toying with increases to the bonus damage after the die roll.
1d8 (Rapier) +2 (From Fighting Style) +5 (Hex Warrior allows for use of Cha instead of Dex or Str) +1 (From Improved Pact Weapon) +5 nec (Cha from Lifedrinker) (Which I just now realize after pulling the character up would be locked behind Warlock 12th level, so 1d8+8 on two attacks at 6th level.)
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Friends are like potatoes...
...if you eat them, they die.
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So it's really easy to find posts about "highest single round burst damage" and the like, but my question specifically is:
What is a good 'average' damage for a character being built to do damage? Not a single round burst, but sustained over multiple rounds. (More or less, without using any limited abilities or spells.)
For instance, I have a fighter/bladelock character that can attack twice with her rapier, doing 1d8+13 per attack without any smites, hexes, or curses thrown in.
It just got me thinking.
Friends are like potatoes...
...if you eat them, they die.
Depends on level.
A level 5 monk can make 3 attacks (2 quarterstaff, 1 unarmed) totaling 2d8+1d6+12 for 24.5 average damage per turn with no Ki.
A level 6 bladesinger with booming blade and a rapier can do 3d8+8 (21.5) with an extra 2d8 if the target moves after (totaling 30.5).
Let's go with the 5-6 range yeah. (Cause that's the minimum level for the character I mentioned to be able to do the 1d8+13.)
And I don't mean, like, min-max numbers, just "good" numbers for a frontline.
(Also how are you getting those numbers for booming blade, wtf? At level 6? With only one weapon strike?)
Friends are like potatoes...
...if you eat them, they die.
Bladesingers get Extra Attack, and special to their Extra Attack, can replace an attack with a cantrip, such as Booming Blade.
Depends on what assumptions you want to make, but a melee character who cares passionately about damage will usually grab GWM. One of the usual assumptions made here is that people ignore accuracy, so GWM looks better on paper than it is (it's fantastic and well worth taking, note, it's just a double fallacy to ignore that its damage doesn't crit and that it makes you less likely to hit).
You also need to be clear what resources you want to allow - are per long rest abilities allowed? If not, barbarian rage is out. Short rest? If not, Hex and Hunter's Mark. And so on. Most fighter subclasses consume resources, note.
Keeping things monoclass to stay sane, and sticking to being completely resourceless, two obvious low-hanging fruits are a random fighter, a ranger from any of the myriad subclasses offering extra damage 1/turn, and a pactbladed genielock. I'll list the dpr for a swarmkeeper, since I happen to have Tasha's out. I'm assuming a greatsword, and S16.
2*(7+3+10)+3.5 = 43.5. 40 for anyone with a greatsword, S16, extra attack, and GWM.
See how GWM added *twenty*? That's why it and Sharpshooter (for ranged builds) are generally critical to weapon dpr success.
Most of the accuracy buffs I know of cost resources, like Bless, but e.g. Find Familiar for an owl will work (far more relevant for an Eldritch Knight at 5-6, unless you have an Artificer in the party to make you one). Without one, frankly a -5 to hit penalty on someone with a +6 to hit is often a poor choice.
I usually use agonizing blast as my baseline for decent damage.
level 1-4: d10+stat
level 5-10: 2 x (d10+stat)
level 11-16: 3 x (d10+stat)
level 17-20: 4 x (d10+stat)
This can be done by any warlock with one invocation and can be accomplished while using a shield.
The most common ways to exceed this level of damage are through bonus action attacks and damage that stacks on each attack like hex, hunter's mark and divine favor (or dueling fighting style and rage).
The other way to possibly do significantly more damage are the GWM and SS feats but the -5 to hit does significantly reduce the to hit probability and resulting average damage. If the character has reliable methods of obtaining advantage on attack rolls (reckless attack, darkness+devils sight, greater invisibility) then these become more effective but the odds of hitting without the penalty will always be larger than with it and if each miss forgoes significant damage then the +10 may not be sufficient to compensate resulting in lower average damage and higher bursts depending on luck.
P.S. If you want some comparisons.
Assume stat is +4 at level 5.
Agonizing blast = 2 x (d10+4) = 19 average
Monk level 5 = 2 x (d8+4) + d6 +4 = 24.5 average
Any extra attack melee martial class (fighter/paladin etc) = 2 x (2d6 +4 ) = 24.6 (greatsword with GWF - no shield)
or 2 (d8 + 4 + 2) = 21 (long sword with dueling fighting style + shield)
or 3 (d6 + 4) = 22.5 (duel wield short swords with two weapon fighting style - no shield)
Barbarians are a bit different since reckless attack greatly increases to hit chances at the expense of being hit.
Ranged attackers with Archery fighting style are also a bit different since the damage is a bit lower at 2x (d8+4) = 15 average (assuming a long bow) but the to hit probability is higher which probably brings it to similar numbers as above.
PAM and Crossbow expert give bonus action attacks for melee and ranged respectively with certain weapons.
Level 5:
PAM with glaive = 2x (d10+4) + (d4+4) = 25.5
PAM with spear and dueling fighting style + shield = 2x (d6 +4 +2) + (d4 +4 +2) = 26.5
Xbow Expert with hand crossbow = 3 x (d6+4) = 22.5 but also has the increased to hit accuracy of the Archery fighting style (if obtainable)
As mentioned GWM and SS aren't really significant in the discussion since I find that the -5 is a sufficient penalty until tier 3 or so except in cases like a gloomstalker ranger who can regularly obtain advantage on attacks. However, the other properties of sharpshooter - ignore cover and extended range can be very worthwhile by themselves so it can be worthwhile taking early.
I usually use Rogue as an idea for baseline, since they are only meant to attack once and get Sneak Attack to scale that one attack all the way to level 20.
At level 5, it's 1d6+4 + 3d6 = 18 avg, 19 with a rapier. Booming Blade or TWF will kick this up more, but I don't consider those to be baseline.
Given that, it's a little low compared to some of the builds that just got Extra Attacks, but those classes tend to jump up in steps while Rogue scales steadily all the way.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
@TheNutCaseTree:
Just out of curiosity, how are you getting 1d8+13 per attack at level 5/6 with a rapier?
I didn't notice that. It would have to be a 2d6 or 1d12 great weapon wouldn't it (which increases average damage anyway)?
A good median damage would be enough to down a boss monster in 10 rounds by yourself, so it depends on the enemies you will face in a campaign ultimately
(I legit didn't know this thread got more replies, sorry.)
I was specifically toying with increases to the bonus damage after the die roll.
1d8 (Rapier)
+2 (From Fighting Style)
+5 (Hex Warrior allows for use of Cha instead of Dex or Str)
+1 (From Improved Pact Weapon)
+5 nec (Cha from Lifedrinker) (Which I just now realize after pulling the character up would be locked behind Warlock 12th level, so 1d8+8 on two attacks at 6th level.)
Friends are like potatoes...
...if you eat them, they die.