What would be the mechanics for choking someone into unconsciousness? A player of mine decided to do this during a fight, and I need a more elegant solution than "through the fight you can continue choking, and he will finally pass out. Each round, make a contested strength check to continue choking, if it fails, the choking does not progress. Each round, a worse affect happens. This round, he is grappled, next round he will be restrained, then he will suffer levels of exhaustion, ending in unconsciousness rather than death." Is there rules somewhere about this?
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The rules don't really provide for choking someone and circumventing the hit points system in that way. It comes up from time to time in discussion, and if you search around the forum, you might find where we cobbled together a decent homebrew grappling system a while back.
So the thing about choking someone out is that it isn't about blocking airflow to the lungs (where you might be tempted to employ drowning rules)...It is about blocking bloodflow (and thereby oxygen flow) to the brain. That is not going to be 1+Con minutes like the drowning is. So this is where homebrew probably needs to come to the rescue.
First, let's set a baseline for what happens in the real world:
So...seems like 5-10 seconds of a properly applied choke hold is going to render someone unconcious...but they will probably wake up right away once the hold is taken away. Maintain the hold for let's say 5+ minutes, and we are looking and brain damage and possible death.
How can we emulate this in game with existing mechanics? Well, the Grappler Feat allows you to Pin an opponent, causing you both to be restrained. Seems about right to having someone in a choke hold. I would say add another layer onto that
Grappler 2.0 Prerequisite: Strength 13 or higher
You've developed the skills necessary to hold your own in close-quarters grappling. You gain the following benefits:
You have advantage on attack rolls against a creature you are grappling. You can use your action to try to pin a creature grappled by you. To do so, make another grapple check. If you succeed, you and the creature are both restrained until the grapple ends. You can use your action to try to render a creature pinned by you unconscious. To do so, make another grapple check. If you succeed, the creature must make a Constitution Saving throw with DC equal to 8+PB+your STR modifier. If they fail they fall unconscious. They remain unconscious for as long as you maintain the grapple + 1 round. If you maintain the grapple for 5+ minutes they must start making death saving throws.
Gets a little convoluted at the end...and could probably be simplified...but that would be my first crack at it.
Since you need a specific feat to be able to pin someone in 5e, I would say you need that same feat or possibly a second feat to attempt to choke them out.
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There's no choking rules or garrotte weapon in this edition of D&D. You will have to adjudicate it and make a ruling. You can ask for ideas in the Homebrew & Houserules Forum section
As others sad, there’s no RAW. To me, the OP’s ruling seemed reasonable. Though it makes me wonder why the player didn’t simply declare they were doing non-lethal damage, assuming the goal was to knock the enemy out rather than kill them. That way you don’t go around the hit point system, and end up in basically the same place.
There's no choking rules or garrotte weapon in this edition of D&D. You will have to adjudicate it and make a ruling. You can ask for ideas in the Homebrew & Houserules Forum section
It's ok. This is a rules subforum, but it is also a game mechanics subforum, and that is what we are discussing here. Specifically, we are discussing the challenge with providing a more robust and satisfying choking system while not trivializing the game's hit point system in the process. There is also the practical process of the monster you are choking. Many undead don't require air. Some creatures are incorporeal. Some creatures don't have obvious appendages for disrupting their breathing or bloodflow to the head.
Here's the other thread where we were spitballing some ideas on how to work grappling and choking into the game. While it's fun, it doesn't balance well against a simplified rule system, so don't use it unless you're just really into that, and it's worth the added complexity.
A creature can hold its breath for a number of minutes equal to 1 + its Constitution modifier (minimum of 30 seconds).
When a creature runs out of breath or is choking, it can survive for a number of rounds equal to its Constitution modifier (minimum of 1 round). At the start of its next turn, it drops to 0 hit points and is dying, and it can't regain hit points or be stabilized until it can breathe again.
For example, a creature with a Constitution of 14 can hold its breath for 3 minutes. If it starts suffocating, it has 2 rounds to reach air before it drops to 0 hit points.
Honestly... I just treat it as an Unarmed Strike. This doesn't quite work in "simulation" terms... choking implies a combination grapple/attack, which works fine if you're using multiattack or if you're using Tavern Brawler, but if all you have is a single attack you basically use one round to grab your target then "attack" by squeezing their neck. At that point it's just a question of whether or not you reduce them to 0 HP with your repeated unarmed strikes.
I know it doesn't quite accomplish what some people are hoping to do with choking, but keep in mind that a Commoner only has 4 HP, so it makes sense that a big, burly barbarian can just choke one of them into unconsciousness in a single round, but when facing off against someone actually trained in combat it's a lot harder to just grab their neck and make them fall asleep... from what I've read, actually choking someone to unconsciousness takes much longer than media portrays.
If I were to introduce a Garrote into the game I think it would just be a d4 Finesse Weapon that grants Advantage to attacks against a target that you're grappling. I'm not sure what damage type it should do... I guess Bludgeoning damage?
So the thing about choking someone out is that it isn't about blocking airflow to the lungs (where you might be tempted to employ drowning rules)...It is about blocking bloodflow (and thereby oxygen flow) to the brain. That is not going to be 1+Con minutes like the drowning is.
I skip the whole “holding your breath” step and cut straight to the “choking” stage. (As you say, it’s not about holding one’s breath.) A commoner would get choked out in a single round, a creature with a Con of 16-17 would get choked out in 3 rounds, a creature with a Con of 20 would get choked out in 5 rounds. As long as the victim doesn’t escape the attacker’s grapple, the chokehold lasts another round.
We’re talking about “choking someone out,” and there are concise rules for “choking” that would KO most creatures in under 5 rounds (about as long as most combats last anyway). Why re-invent the wheel?
Since you need a specific feat to be able to pin someone in 5e, I would say you need that same feat or possibly a second feat to attempt to choke them out.
You don’t actually need a specific feat to pin someone in 5e, that’s what makes that feat so utterly useless. If you grapple a creature and then shove it prone it is pinned since it’s speed will be 0 and won’t be able to stand up until/unless it breaks your hold and stops being grappled. The grappler feat is hot garbage, and choking someone unconscious shouldn’t require a feat either.
What would be the mechanics for choking someone into unconsciousness? A player of mine decided to do this during a fight, and I need a more elegant solution than "through the fight you can continue choking, and he will finally pass out. Each round, make a contested strength check to continue choking, if it fails, the choking does not progress. Each round, a worse affect happens. This round, he is grappled, next round he will be restrained, then he will suffer levels of exhaustion, ending in unconsciousness rather than death." Is there rules somewhere about this?
Pronouns: he/him/his.
My posting scheduled is irregular: sometimes I can post twice a week, sometimes twice a day. I may also respond to quick questions, but ignore harder responses in favor of time.
My location is where my character for my home game is (we're doing the wild beyond the witchlight).
"The Doomvault... Probably full of unicorns and rainbows." -An imaginary quote
The rules don't really provide for choking someone and circumventing the hit points system in that way. It comes up from time to time in discussion, and if you search around the forum, you might find where we cobbled together a decent homebrew grappling system a while back.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
So the thing about choking someone out is that it isn't about blocking airflow to the lungs (where you might be tempted to employ drowning rules)...It is about blocking bloodflow (and thereby oxygen flow) to the brain. That is not going to be 1+Con minutes like the drowning is. So this is where homebrew probably needs to come to the rescue.
First, let's set a baseline for what happens in the real world:
Choke Hold Passout
Choke Hold Passout (2)
Brain Death Oxygen Starvation
So...seems like 5-10 seconds of a properly applied choke hold is going to render someone unconcious...but they will probably wake up right away once the hold is taken away.
Maintain the hold for let's say 5+ minutes, and we are looking and brain damage and possible death.
How can we emulate this in game with existing mechanics? Well, the Grappler Feat allows you to Pin an opponent, causing you both to be restrained. Seems about right to having someone in a choke hold. I would say add another layer onto that
Gets a little convoluted at the end...and could probably be simplified...but that would be my first crack at it.
Since you need a specific feat to be able to pin someone in 5e, I would say you need that same feat or possibly a second feat to attempt to choke them out.
Founding Member of the High Roller Society. (Currently trying to roll max on 4d6)
There's no choking rules or garrotte weapon in this edition of D&D. You will have to adjudicate it and make a ruling. You can ask for ideas in the Homebrew & Houserules Forum section
As others sad, there’s no RAW. To me, the OP’s ruling seemed reasonable. Though it makes me wonder why the player didn’t simply declare they were doing non-lethal damage, assuming the goal was to knock the enemy out rather than kill them. That way you don’t go around the hit point system, and end up in basically the same place.
It's ok. This is a rules subforum, but it is also a game mechanics subforum, and that is what we are discussing here. Specifically, we are discussing the challenge with providing a more robust and satisfying choking system while not trivializing the game's hit point system in the process. There is also the practical process of the monster you are choking. Many undead don't require air. Some creatures are incorporeal. Some creatures don't have obvious appendages for disrupting their breathing or bloodflow to the head.
Here's the other thread where we were spitballing some ideas on how to work grappling and choking into the game. While it's fun, it doesn't balance well against a simplified rule system, so don't use it unless you're just really into that, and it's worth the added complexity.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
I use the rules for Suffocating:
As long as the grapple is maintained each round, the grappler keeps choking the victim.
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Honestly... I just treat it as an Unarmed Strike. This doesn't quite work in "simulation" terms... choking implies a combination grapple/attack, which works fine if you're using multiattack or if you're using Tavern Brawler, but if all you have is a single attack you basically use one round to grab your target then "attack" by squeezing their neck. At that point it's just a question of whether or not you reduce them to 0 HP with your repeated unarmed strikes.
I know it doesn't quite accomplish what some people are hoping to do with choking, but keep in mind that a Commoner only has 4 HP, so it makes sense that a big, burly barbarian can just choke one of them into unconsciousness in a single round, but when facing off against someone actually trained in combat it's a lot harder to just grab their neck and make them fall asleep... from what I've read, actually choking someone to unconsciousness takes much longer than media portrays.
If I were to introduce a Garrote into the game I think it would just be a d4 Finesse Weapon that grants Advantage to attacks against a target that you're grappling. I'm not sure what damage type it should do... I guess Bludgeoning damage?
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Most garrotes would do slashing damage and were not intended to “choke someone out” but rather slice their trachea and kill them.
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+1 to reflavoring nonlethal damage. When they hit 0, they are unconscious.
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I skip the whole “holding your breath” step and cut straight to the “choking” stage. (As you say, it’s not about holding one’s breath.) A commoner would get choked out in a single round, a creature with a Con of 16-17 would get choked out in 3 rounds, a creature with a Con of 20 would get choked out in 5 rounds. As long as the victim doesn’t escape the attacker’s grapple, the chokehold lasts another round.
We’re talking about “choking someone out,” and there are concise rules for “choking” that would KO most creatures in under 5 rounds (about as long as most combats last anyway). Why re-invent the wheel?
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You don’t actually need a specific feat to pin someone in 5e, that’s what makes that feat so utterly useless. If you grapple a creature and then shove it prone it is pinned since it’s speed will be 0 and won’t be able to stand up until/unless it breaks your hold and stops being grappled. The grappler feat is hot garbage, and choking someone unconscious shouldn’t require a feat either.
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Reminder this subforum is for discussing and clarifying official rules.
Concocting new rules, or 'fixing' existing ones falls under the Homebrew subforum
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