There are many characters/builds that rely on short rests.
"We just had a fight, I blew all my class features....hey guys, can we take a short rest? Hey, we had a 2nd fight in the dungeon, can we take a short rest again? Oh look, another fight....can we take an hour?".
This just seems to make every feature that is limited to every rest, not really be a limitation at all if the DM just lets you take short rests whenever.
To me, this is just an odd mechanic for most dungeon runs. You just killed some mobs in a dungeon, after every fight you're going to find some defensible area to take an hour nap? The rest of the mobs in the dungeon didn't hear the fight or aren't worried about their buddies at all. This of course is part of the game. Fight a ton of mobs in room 1B and the mobs in 1C will just be sitting there, heck; you might even surprise them. After you slaughtered the 1B mobs...an hour ago.
I need to get my boss at work to approve this mechanic. "Dude, I worked really hard on that call/customer/client/spreadsheet. I'm going to need an hour if you want me to work on the next one."
You've kind of answered your own question in there: "if the DM just lets you take short rests whenever".
When you are able to short rest, whether you are interrupted, how often per long rest or per 24 hours, how long since the last short rest, etc. - All these things are up to the DM. A considerate DM might go over the rules they intend to use with the players so you're not surprised when you aren't able short rest three times in the middle of a goblin hideout just 10 minutes after you woke up from a long rest.
Personally I am of the opinion that a day has a rough structure: Long rest - 4-5 hours activity - Short rest - 4-5 hours activity - Short rest - 4-5 hours activity - Long rest. The party is free to skip any of those rests, swap their long rest for a third short rest, or move things around by an hour or two in any direction, but they will never get the benefit of more than three rests on any given day/night. I would never allow even a short rest in a dungeon, unless a room can be secured from any invasion; even then there would be consequences as any random patrol would discover the dead or missing creatures that have already been dealt with. Other DMs have hugely different rulings. Yes, this does greatly change the relative effectiveness of those classes who rely on Short rests versus those which rely on Long rests. If you are concerned by this then definitely have a chat with the DM and ensure that everyone in the game is satisfied with the rest model used for your game.
The other thing to note is that short rests take an hour in 5e. They’re more like a meal break than a quick breather. And so it’s more risky to take a short break in a dungeon without proper precautions, as there is more time for reinforcements/wandering monsters/bad dungeon effects to occur during a short rest. Also, continually taking short rests will chew up time. That hostage you were meant to save? Died of starvation. Trying to stop the bbeg? He’s prepared his ritual already and doomed you all.
A bunch of players can say their characters start a short rest whenever they want and the DM should let them. However if they're trying to rest it a daft or insecure place the DM's perfectly okay to dump some shit on their heads. If there's a half hourly patrol they're going to be found and bang goes the short rest. Likewise as it takes time to rest the world doesn't stop just because the players want it to - "The Princess has been moved to another castle, not because of rubbish game design, but because you took too long to get there..."
Looking at the structure of the adventuring day in the DMG the assumption appears to be that there'll be a short rest every couple of encounters and one long rest every 6 encounters.
I tend to play classes that are dependent on short rests as opposed to classes that are dependent on long rests and I conserve my resources. I don't use all of my spell slots or ki points in the first room of a dungeon, I use them sparingly the same way classes that are dependent on long rests do.
Short rests should happen when the DM allows. Imagine walking into a local high school after hours when there aren't any students there except in the gym practicing basketball and in the auditorium practicing for a play, but there are custodians and a few lingering teachers and sneaking around quietly. How long would it reasonably take for you to run into a teacher, custodian, or student? That's a random encounter. Now imagine if you fight with the person or people you run into with the associated clangs, shouts, and other noises. How much noise would you make and how far would that noise carry? And how long would it take for someone to come and investigate the noise after the fight is over? That scenario should give a good idea how often short rests and long rests are possible in dungeons.
Of course I strongly suggest not testing that out to see what happens. But that should give a realistic idea of how difficult a short rest is in a dungeon, especially after a fight.
I've always been of the impression that your skills should be used sparingly, not on the first monster you okay eyes on. But my groups tend to value potions, healing kits, and healing spells lol
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You only lose if you die. Any time else, there's opportunity for a come back.
I tend to play classes that are dependent on short rests as opposed to classes that are dependent on long rests and I conserve my resources. I don't use all of my spell slots or ki points in the first room of a dungeon, I use them sparingly the same way classes that are dependent on long rests do.
What he said!
Unleasing all of your powers and specials at once to be able to survive means either:
1: that your character is too weak compared to the rest of the group,
2: your DM sets you up with too hard encounters
3: You are impatient and put the pedal to the metal when its not needed.
See, burn every ability every fight. Blow it all. After the fight, "We NEED a short rest or I'm worthless!". Probably knowing the DM isn't going to give more than say 3 encounters a day....
Used to be (yes, I'm old), players would fight encounter after encounter after encounter and make do. That was how you ran a dungeon. Now it's "I'm tapped, we need to hole up, can't go on. We can't continue. I need my Action Surge."
"I'm out of spell slots, need to rest" - every Warlock. "We got some magic items, need to take an hour to attune." - every time loot drops. "I need to unattune, then attune! 2 hours!"
Party advances through 3 rooms/encounters. "Now we need a Long Rest! Not fair Short Rest people get to renew...all my Long Rest abilities are gone". DM, "Sorry....you've been here a little less than 4 hours, counting the 3 short rests you took. You can't take a Long Rest for another 12 hours."
This isnt a short rest issue. Long before there was even a short rest mechanic some players would want to do that for what is now a long rest (the day) to get back spells and resources, and even then it was up to the DM.
That is entirely on the DM and how things are handled in the campaign/setting (Ie this aint no computer game world). There is always the "you can certainty try", it doesn't mean you will always succeed.
Used to be (yes, I'm old), players would fight encounter after encounter after encounter and make do. That was how you ran a dungeon. Now it's "I'm tapped, we need to hole up, can't go on. We can't continue. I need my Action Surge."
My experience (I'm old too) has shown me that the players that say "I'm tapped, we need to hole up, can't go on." will say that regardless of which edition they are playing or whether it's their daily-recharging stuff or short rest recharge - and the only thing that gets them to change is to keep the encounters happening whether they burn all their resources as fast as they can, or ration things out to handle as many encounters before trying to rest (and hang on to a few 'emergency' resources to use should their rest get interrupted, if possible), because that get's them to face the choice: adapt, or die.
The only thing actually different is that every class has some kind of resources (besides hit points) to regain - which might make it feel like "I'm tapped, let's rest" is more prevalent because it isn't just happening with classes that an old-timer is used to seeing players say that with.
As a DM I'd ask if they brought cheese to go with all the Whine. (This joke works better verbally...)
I have very little empathy for my players in game because I heavily HEEEEAAAVILY encourage them to make decisions at all times as if they were the person. What are the potential outcomes of each and every choice. If you burn all your resources on room one, you are going to have a hard time the rest of the way and for me, if I know I only have a half gallon of milk left for coffee in the morning but I got a week left till payday, I am going to eat a little less cereal and my coffee is going to be a little more black.
If you aren't the DM of the group, you can try to use this rationalization of adaptation to encourage them to stop burning through themselves so much but if you ARE the DM, I would say use the good ol' "You can certainly rest here." and either have magic looming in the air that prevents them from benefiting from those rests or they get attacked in the middle. They will stop asking and starting thinking.
The latter, however, is subject to uh...some dark resourcefulness. In the second campaign I ever ran (Curse of Strahd), I took the body of someone, I can't remember who, we were in a church with a basement. Broke apart a pew and impaled the splintered wood up the backdoor of this body and leaned it against the wall at the bottom of the staircase. Then took my 50 ft of rope and the various things like crowbars and pitons, anything made of metal and created a shoddy alarm system where if anyone hit the metal, it would clang violently against the stone walls and floors and I set this just past the trap door. My DM and my players were just staring at me like, "Dude, you brilliant, but horrendously heartless monster." I was like, "My character is an outsider who lived in violent wilderness and was the protector of the young in his clan. His duty, every fiber of his being, was committed to that and there was nothing he wouldn't do to ensure their safety, including, but not limited to, heinous acts considered taboo by even the gods." Ahh. Good times. I miss that character, he was fun.
Edit: Oh and by the way. The alarm was pointless, we ended up not being attacked again that night.
I played spell casters in earlier editions. A 1st level arcane spell caster was pretty worthless for the first few levels at first. After casting your one spell per day you could either get into melee combat without any armor or you could throw darts. In 5e with cantrips every caster can contribute even after they "run out of resources".
The only time I blow all of my resources in one combat is when the combat is happening at the end of the day and we're about to rest anyway or when it looks like that's the only way to survive the combat. Other than that I always try to save some resources for later encounters.
5e it seems is designed around the short rest being a regular part of the game, it can be handled as simple as the DM saying ok you take your short rest, everybody rolls hit dice, gets their stuff back, and you move on... don't really see what the issue is?
sounds from battles don't travel all that far in a dungeon (around a few corners or a few rooms over) so should only attract 'the neighbors'... and why should they show up during a short rest, instead of in the actual battle that is making the noise to attract them in the first place
I think the issue is one of game balance - as a DM I'm designing a string of encounters that I think will be fun for my group - part of fun is being challenging. When players take "too many" short rests, what they are doing is burning through abilities, making the encounters too easy, and thereby, reducing the challenge and the fun.
It's a natural urge as a player. I will always want to be at full strength with all my abilities on tap for every single fight; if I can manage it. But that doesn't mean its the best experience I can have. So the DM has to manage things - either you adjust by making encounters even harder and let the party rest whenever they want, or you create barriers to "extra" rests - "random" encounters, and time constraints are your best tools.
I really like time constraints - make the party's objective time sensitive and now they feel a conflict between wanting to nova every fight then rest, versus being able to succeed at their chosen task before it's too late - managing rests fall back onto the players rather than it falling on the DM. Over time the problem should go away - players learn that the environment moves on when they are resting - more monsters show up, the big bad gets bigger or badder, the prisoners they are trying to rescue might be dying one by one... basically, they will learn to have a sense of urgency to their missions and will conserve their abilities better.
The Dungeon Master has to provide the ticking clock. Without a time constraint your players are never going to Want to move through the dungeon quickly. The kenku will die if you don't bring the antidote back before sundown. The in-denial mayor has locked himself in the tower with his infant son, whose mother died to a werewolf attack. If the players know that the hag is casting a spell that will take two hours to complete, as soon as they see that pillar of light hit the clouds they're gonna get moving. Be creative.
It also depends on the tone of your campaign. If you want an old-school, gritty feel where the wizard's fireball is a precious resource to be used only in emergencies, you can do that. But if you want more of an epic, superhero type feel you can allow more rests and just crank up the difficulty so that they really need to blow all their resources between those rests.
Some of my players just want to take a couple hours a week to feel like a complete badass. So I let them use their abilities often. Or rather, I make them because they won't survive if they don't. Some might decry this kind of thing as "video-gamey" or "coddling" but I just think it's a different kind of game for a different kind of group.
That's not to say I always do it though. It can be a lot of fun to change up the pace between adventures. Desperate races against time start to lose their urgency when every adventure has one.
I’d say short rests are a little like sleeping or eating. Resting after 1 challenging encounter can remove things like exhaustion after a chase, but aren’t mechanically short rests. So I might rule that you can only use a short rest after you’ve been active for at least 4 hours after a previous rest. This gives you your estimated 2 or 3 short rests a day, and puts more of a time structure on each adventuring day. A party might very well decide to call it quits after just one challenging encounter and break for lunch. That’s hilariously similar to modern office and workplace events, but it is also an expenditure of a significant part of the adventuring day.
You don’t always have all day to just take it easy and it can be hazardous to be sitting around in the wilderness resting.
That said, putting a temporary stop to your travel after a particularly unlucky random encounter is very apropos for D&D.
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There are many characters/builds that rely on short rests.
"We just had a fight, I blew all my class features....hey guys, can we take a short rest? Hey, we had a 2nd fight in the dungeon, can we take a short rest again? Oh look, another fight....can we take an hour?".
This just seems to make every feature that is limited to every rest, not really be a limitation at all if the DM just lets you take short rests whenever.
To me, this is just an odd mechanic for most dungeon runs. You just killed some mobs in a dungeon, after every fight you're going to find some defensible area to take an hour nap? The rest of the mobs in the dungeon didn't hear the fight or aren't worried about their buddies at all. This of course is part of the game. Fight a ton of mobs in room 1B and the mobs in 1C will just be sitting there, heck; you might even surprise them. After you slaughtered the 1B mobs...an hour ago.
I need to get my boss at work to approve this mechanic. "Dude, I worked really hard on that call/customer/client/spreadsheet. I'm going to need an hour if you want me to work on the next one."
You've kind of answered your own question in there: "if the DM just lets you take short rests whenever".
When you are able to short rest, whether you are interrupted, how often per long rest or per 24 hours, how long since the last short rest, etc. - All these things are up to the DM. A considerate DM might go over the rules they intend to use with the players so you're not surprised when you aren't able short rest three times in the middle of a goblin hideout just 10 minutes after you woke up from a long rest.
Personally I am of the opinion that a day has a rough structure: Long rest - 4-5 hours activity - Short rest - 4-5 hours activity - Short rest - 4-5 hours activity - Long rest. The party is free to skip any of those rests, swap their long rest for a third short rest, or move things around by an hour or two in any direction, but they will never get the benefit of more than three rests on any given day/night. I would never allow even a short rest in a dungeon, unless a room can be secured from any invasion; even then there would be consequences as any random patrol would discover the dead or missing creatures that have already been dealt with. Other DMs have hugely different rulings. Yes, this does greatly change the relative effectiveness of those classes who rely on Short rests versus those which rely on Long rests. If you are concerned by this then definitely have a chat with the DM and ensure that everyone in the game is satisfied with the rest model used for your game.
The other thing to note is that short rests take an hour in 5e. They’re more like a meal break than a quick breather. And so it’s more risky to take a short break in a dungeon without proper precautions, as there is more time for reinforcements/wandering monsters/bad dungeon effects to occur during a short rest. Also, continually taking short rests will chew up time. That hostage you were meant to save? Died of starvation. Trying to stop the bbeg? He’s prepared his ritual already and doomed you all.
A bunch of players can say their characters start a short rest whenever they want and the DM should let them. However if they're trying to rest it a daft or insecure place the DM's perfectly okay to dump some shit on their heads. If there's a half hourly patrol they're going to be found and bang goes the short rest. Likewise as it takes time to rest the world doesn't stop just because the players want it to - "The Princess has been moved to another castle, not because of rubbish game design, but because you took too long to get there..."
Looking at the structure of the adventuring day in the DMG the assumption appears to be that there'll be a short rest every couple of encounters and one long rest every 6 encounters.
I tend to play classes that are dependent on short rests as opposed to classes that are dependent on long rests and I conserve my resources. I don't use all of my spell slots or ki points in the first room of a dungeon, I use them sparingly the same way classes that are dependent on long rests do.
Short rests should happen when the DM allows. Imagine walking into a local high school after hours when there aren't any students there except in the gym practicing basketball and in the auditorium practicing for a play, but there are custodians and a few lingering teachers and sneaking around quietly. How long would it reasonably take for you to run into a teacher, custodian, or student? That's a random encounter. Now imagine if you fight with the person or people you run into with the associated clangs, shouts, and other noises. How much noise would you make and how far would that noise carry? And how long would it take for someone to come and investigate the noise after the fight is over? That scenario should give a good idea how often short rests and long rests are possible in dungeons.
Of course I strongly suggest not testing that out to see what happens. But that should give a realistic idea of how difficult a short rest is in a dungeon, especially after a fight.
Professional computer geek
I've always been of the impression that your skills should be used sparingly, not on the first monster you okay eyes on. But my groups tend to value potions, healing kits, and healing spells lol
You only lose if you die. Any time else, there's opportunity for a come back.
See, burn every ability every fight. Blow it all. After the fight, "We NEED a short rest or I'm worthless!". Probably knowing the DM isn't going to give more than say 3 encounters a day....
Used to be (yes, I'm old), players would fight encounter after encounter after encounter and make do. That was how you ran a dungeon. Now it's "I'm tapped, we need to hole up, can't go on. We can't continue. I need my Action Surge."
"I'm out of spell slots, need to rest" - every Warlock. "We got some magic items, need to take an hour to attune." - every time loot drops. "I need to unattune, then attune! 2 hours!"
Party advances through 3 rooms/encounters. "Now we need a Long Rest! Not fair Short Rest people get to renew...all my Long Rest abilities are gone". DM, "Sorry....you've been here a little less than 4 hours, counting the 3 short rests you took. You can't take a Long Rest for another 12 hours."
This isnt a short rest issue. Long before there was even a short rest mechanic some players would want to do that for what is now a long rest (the day) to get back spells and resources, and even then it was up to the DM.
That is entirely on the DM and how things are handled in the campaign/setting (Ie this aint no computer game world). There is always the "you can certainty try", it doesn't mean you will always succeed.
- Loswaith
My experience (I'm old too) has shown me that the players that say "I'm tapped, we need to hole up, can't go on." will say that regardless of which edition they are playing or whether it's their daily-recharging stuff or short rest recharge - and the only thing that gets them to change is to keep the encounters happening whether they burn all their resources as fast as they can, or ration things out to handle as many encounters before trying to rest (and hang on to a few 'emergency' resources to use should their rest get interrupted, if possible), because that get's them to face the choice: adapt, or die.
The only thing actually different is that every class has some kind of resources (besides hit points) to regain - which might make it feel like "I'm tapped, let's rest" is more prevalent because it isn't just happening with classes that an old-timer is used to seeing players say that with.
As a DM I'd ask if they brought cheese to go with all the Whine. (This joke works better verbally...)
I have very little empathy for my players in game because I heavily HEEEEAAAVILY encourage them to make decisions at all times as if they were the person. What are the potential outcomes of each and every choice. If you burn all your resources on room one, you are going to have a hard time the rest of the way and for me, if I know I only have a half gallon of milk left for coffee in the morning but I got a week left till payday, I am going to eat a little less cereal and my coffee is going to be a little more black.
If you aren't the DM of the group, you can try to use this rationalization of adaptation to encourage them to stop burning through themselves so much but if you ARE the DM, I would say use the good ol' "You can certainly rest here." and either have magic looming in the air that prevents them from benefiting from those rests or they get attacked in the middle. They will stop asking and starting thinking.
The latter, however, is subject to uh...some dark resourcefulness. In the second campaign I ever ran (Curse of Strahd), I took the body of someone, I can't remember who, we were in a church with a basement. Broke apart a pew and impaled the splintered wood up the backdoor of this body and leaned it against the wall at the bottom of the staircase. Then took my 50 ft of rope and the various things like crowbars and pitons, anything made of metal and created a shoddy alarm system where if anyone hit the metal, it would clang violently against the stone walls and floors and I set this just past the trap door. My DM and my players were just staring at me like, "Dude, you brilliant, but horrendously heartless monster." I was like, "My character is an outsider who lived in violent wilderness and was the protector of the young in his clan. His duty, every fiber of his being, was committed to that and there was nothing he wouldn't do to ensure their safety, including, but not limited to, heinous acts considered taboo by even the gods." Ahh. Good times. I miss that character, he was fun.
Edit: Oh and by the way. The alarm was pointless, we ended up not being attacked again that night.
You only lose if you die. Any time else, there's opportunity for a come back.
I played spell casters in earlier editions. A 1st level arcane spell caster was pretty worthless for the first few levels at first. After casting your one spell per day you could either get into melee combat without any armor or you could throw darts. In 5e with cantrips every caster can contribute even after they "run out of resources".
The only time I blow all of my resources in one combat is when the combat is happening at the end of the day and we're about to rest anyway or when it looks like that's the only way to survive the combat. Other than that I always try to save some resources for later encounters.
Professional computer geek
The Dungeon Master has to provide the ticking clock. Without a time constraint your players are never going to Want to move through the dungeon quickly. The kenku will die if you don't bring the antidote back before sundown. The in-denial mayor has locked himself in the tower with his infant son, whose mother died to a werewolf attack. If the players know that the hag is casting a spell that will take two hours to complete, as soon as they see that pillar of light hit the clouds they're gonna get moving. Be creative.
It also depends on the tone of your campaign. If you want an old-school, gritty feel where the wizard's fireball is a precious resource to be used only in emergencies, you can do that. But if you want more of an epic, superhero type feel you can allow more rests and just crank up the difficulty so that they really need to blow all their resources between those rests.
Some of my players just want to take a couple hours a week to feel like a complete badass. So I let them use their abilities often. Or rather, I make them because they won't survive if they don't. Some might decry this kind of thing as "video-gamey" or "coddling" but I just think it's a different kind of game for a different kind of group.
That's not to say I always do it though. It can be a lot of fun to change up the pace between adventures. Desperate races against time start to lose their urgency when every adventure has one.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
Limit to 2 or three short rests a day. Just simply say that there is no benefit past that number.
I’d say short rests are a little like sleeping or eating. Resting after 1 challenging encounter can remove things like exhaustion after a chase, but aren’t mechanically short rests. So I might rule that you can only use a short rest after you’ve been active for at least 4 hours after a previous rest. This gives you your estimated 2 or 3 short rests a day, and puts more of a time structure on each adventuring day. A party might very well decide to call it quits after just one challenging encounter and break for lunch. That’s hilariously similar to modern office and workplace events, but it is also an expenditure of a significant part of the adventuring day.
You don’t always have all day to just take it easy and it can be hazardous to be sitting around in the wilderness resting.
That said, putting a temporary stop to your travel after a particularly unlucky random encounter is very apropos for D&D.