Since an Herbalism Kit can be used to make Health potions, just what is anyone's idea of how fast and how many can be made. I feel this should be about 1 every day if they devote their time to it and less later on, or would it be that if they were not traveling they could make a batch of say 5 potions in one day. I feel this will benefit my players if they can do this. I will be including this to my games, but I want advice as to what rate I should keep it at.
Proficiency in an herbalism kit is required for making potions, it isn't the only thing used for making them though. You still need to actually craft the magical item, which is described on pages 128 and 129 of the DMG:
Basically, you need to be a spellcaster of a minimum level based on the item's rarity. You must be able to cast any spells associated with that magic item (a potion of heroism requires the heroism spell, a wand of magic missiles requires the magic missile spell, etc...). The DMG has a chart for magical items, but for example a common item costs 100g to craft, while an uncommon item costs 500g to craft. You then spend a spell slot for any required spells, 8 hours crafting, and 25g per day until the cost of the magic item is spent (so 4 days for a common item and 16 days for an uncommon item).
Now, depending on how nice or dickish of a DM you have/are, you could say that they can create more than one potion using this method (maybe a number equal to their spell casting modifier). Sure, it might seem like they are just throwing out potions left and right at first, but considering it takes 200 days for a Rare item and 2000 days for a Very Rare, they won't be really doing much at later levels. Also, the fact that they are adventurers, not shopkeepers, they won't exactly have 8 hours a day every day to be doing nothing but crafting potions (this isn't considered light activity, so they can't do it while resting). So, you figure, between the 8 hour long rest, and 8 hours crafting, that's only 8 hours a day for adventuring (including travelling to/from a location). The fighter/barbarian/rogue isn't going to just sit around while the wizard fuddy duddys around with his stash.
That's also assuming they have enough materials for crafting that many potions (figure that's what the gold expenditure is, so they spend the actual gold in town to buy the herbs/bottles/etc... and then the time crafting per 25g spent). So, if they plan on crafting on the fly, they'll have to make sure to buy the materials/herbs (or hope to find the right materials in the wilderness). Add in the time it takes to craft while they are busy adventuring, and you won't see them crafting items on the fly very much (probably only in downtime while in town).
One final note: multiple spell casters can work on an item together; so if you have a party with four spell casters in it (Paladin, Cleric, Bard, Wizard perhaps) all working together for a single potion of healing (common), they could craft it in one 8 hour day (still spending the 100g total). If you decide to let them craft multiple at once (and use my spell casting modifier idea), have them designate a single person to be the main crafter and the others to be his/her helpers.
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
This is understandably quite extensive and time-consuming in the game. I think I might home rule it to make potion making easier, I am a little bit of a sadistic, but a generous one at that when it comes to my encounters. I feel that my players will not be spending all of their time making potions just for them to be used for a few minutes. I think I will probably reduce the time and possibly money needed to craft potions compared to normal magics items and they are consumable and the magic items are not. Thanks for the information, I will remember those page numbers.
Yeah the crafting rules in 5e remind me of the original editions - taking up so much time and resources for what you get, that it's basically easier to just buy them.
Yeah the crafting rules in 5e remind me of the original editions - taking up so much time and resources for what you get, that it's basically easier to just buy them.
Probably for the best really - the focus for adventurers should be going out adventuring! :)
Yeah the crafting rules in 5e remind me of the original editions - taking up so much time and resources for what you get, that it's basically easier to just buy them.
Probably for the best really - the focus for adventurers should be going out adventuring! :)
Some individuals like the idea of crafting - however progressing at a rate of 25gp per day when also looking at some of the costs, it's like they really wanted to remove that aspect of the game completely. I love making wizards and occasionally specializing them to be a crafter - it's started to take that enjoyment factor out, which is a real shame.
Actually, good point and my flippant comment above didn't really come across right.
The real goal should be to provide sufficient flexibility to allow people to play the adventurer that they want to play and, if that means they want to be able to craft things, then there needs to be a framework to allow that, without breaking the game, but also allowing them to do that AND go adventuring.
I used to play a mad alchemist Rogue, way back, who loved concocting various potions, bombs, poisons etc and testing them out on unsuspecting monsters.
I usually present some sort of mini quest mechanic. Only certain herbs possess the magical properties to brew certain potions, finding those herbs locally can be a challenge. I let the players use a multitude of skills like insight (if they've been to the region before) history/investigation (if looking/referencing text) nature, survival and medicine etc. Once they've identified the herb ie. Winterpetal or Hollowswart or something other they can attempt to brew potions with it. This herb may be the same thing they've been using just called something different in a different land.
I then roll a d4 and add or subtract depending on conditions to determine how many they can brew. After that I have them roll a d20. 1-5 is a 1d4+con potion, 6-10 is a d6 + con, 11-15 is a d8 + con, 16-20 is a 2d6+con. I use this as a way to show that crafting in the wilderness can not be as fruitful as buying the high quality ones, but is helpful in a pinch. The more difficult you want it to be, add more ingredients ie. Saffron/Cinnamon/expensive spices and herbs) this can drive up the cost and such if you want to go that route.
Got this method from a friend of mine who also DMs.
Many of the above comments calculate the cost of a Potions of Healing being 100gp because it is a common item, but DMG p135 states that the things like potions and scrolls are often half the cost of other magic items because they are consumable. Therefore, they would only take 50gp of material to create.
Crafting is actually one of my least favorite parts of DnD 5e, and I personally like the Dev really did it a huge injustice.
I "get" the idea of putting magic items in Common/Uncommon/Rare/Very Rare/Legendary buckets with estimated prices, I'm pretty fine with that over all.
On the other hand disposable items like scroll and potions (back in 3rd that included wands) and I agree with Stormknight flippant comment that Adventurers should be Adventurering. At least in the games I've played and what seems to be a theme in this edition that magic items have become much more rare then they were in other editions. The problem for me is that I've previously use crafting as preparation for Adventuring. As the world of magic items shops gets less well stocked and prices get higher it becomes more important that PCs can do this for themselves. What if a fight with the Big Bad is coming up and the Party wants to invest in a Life Insurance policy (a scroll of Revivify) So that if someone drops, you can bring them back without it being an ordeal, plus the Churches always rip you off with Raise Dead. There is no way to adequately cost out how much that should cost if the party wants to do it themselves. The same with a potion of Lesser Restoration, if you're in Chult you're really going to want to have a few of these to go around. In 3rd Edition my Wizard spent a huge amount of money on scrolls because there is always those spells that you don't want to memorize, but when you need them you need them now like Arcane Lock to aid an escape or Knock to handle a magical lock the rogue can't crack.
To me this is more important because there are a lot of features built around this now. Wizards are mostly fine because they get spell every level their spellbook, but anyone else with the Ritual Caster feat or a Pact of the Tome Warlock. I have a Pact of the Tomelock in a game and I've spent a huuuuuuge amount of money on scrolls. First I have to buy the scroll then I have to pay to scribe it. The problem is the scroll it self is almost useless to me after unless I want to insta-cast it. So, what I really need is a Wizard College's Library Card so I can rent-a-scroll and scribe it.
It feels to me that the price of consumable magic items have become a lot higher and now really can't be considered consumable given the cost.
The problem for me is that I've previously use crafting as preparation for Adventuring. As the world of magic items shops gets less well stocked and prices get higher it becomes more important that PCs can do this for themselves.
On the contrary. Unlike 3e, 5e is designed around the assumption that you have no magic items. Magic items cause you to punch above your weight.
What if a fight with the Big Bad is coming up and the Party wants to invest in a Life Insurance policy (a scroll of Revivify) So that if someone drops, you can bring them back without it being an ordeal, plus the Churches always rip you off with Raise Dead.
A scroll of Revivify is going to cost you the same as casting Revivify yourself plus the cost of a 3rd level scroll and you're dependent on the cleric being alive.
You'd be better off buying the material components for Revivify and buying a scroll of Gentle Repose. If someone dies and the cleric has spell slots for it, cast Revivify. If the cleric doesn't have slots or died, a wizard can still cast Gentle Repose to buy time.
There is no way to adequately cost out how much that should cost if the party wants to do it themselves. The same with a potion of Lesser Restoration, if you're in Chult you're really going to want to have a few of these to go around.
Even with all the nerfs they've received in 5e, spells are still really, really strong. An item that lets anyone gain the benefits of a spell without using spell slots is game-breaking unless it's expensive.
In 3rd Edition my Wizard spent a huge amount of money on scrolls because there is always those spells that you don't want to memorize, but when you need them you need them now like Arcane Lock to aid an escape or Knock to handle a magical lock the rogue can't crack.
To me this is more important because there are a lot of features built around this now.
It's less important now since you don't have to to pre-assign spells to slots and wizards can cast ritual spells straight from their spellbook.
Wizards are mostly fine because they get spell every level their spellbook, but anyone else with the Ritual Caster feat or a Pact of the Tome Warlock. I have a Pact of the Tomelock in a game and I've spent a huuuuuuge amount of money on scrolls. First I have to buy the scroll then I have to pay to scribe it. The problem is the scroll it self is almost useless to me after unless I want to insta-cast it. So, what I really need is a Wizard College's Library Card so I can rent-a-scroll and scribe it.
Scribing a scroll destroys it.
Ritual Caster and Book of Ancient Secrets are still useful enough to pick even if you never add any new spells.
Even in a campaign with 0 magic items, you can still copy spells from wizard spellbooks.
It feels to me that the price of consumable magic items have become a lot higher and now really can't be considered consumable given the cost.
I really think you need to readjust your expectations with regards to spell scrolls and spell potions. Getting around the game's built-in limits for how many spells you can cast in a day should be expensive. You're not expected to have these items to succeed.
Yeah the crafting in 5e leaves something heavily to be desired. Crafting time based on item cost seems dumb to me. You're telling me an apothecary can only pump out 2 health potions a tenday? I wanted to make a Rogue Assassin who specialized in poisons until I found out that because poisons are illegal their prices are inflated which artificially inflates the crafting cost and time too. Not to mention most poisons (including the over 1000gp cost ones and ones that require a quest to kill a dangerous monster for its venom) are pretty lack luster in their effects. It makes it so much more sense to just buy basic poisons on the black market.
I really hope they work out a better crafting mechanics in the future. Even if its purely for more basic items.
Wizards are mostly fine because they get spell every level their spellbook, but anyone else with the Ritual Caster feat or a Pact of the Tome Warlock. I have a Pact of the Tomelock in a game and I've spent a huuuuuuge amount of money on scrolls. First I have to buy the scroll then I have to pay to scribe it. The problem is the scroll it self is almost useless to me after unless I want to insta-cast it. So, what I really need is a Wizard College's Library Card so I can rent-a-scroll and scribe it.
Scribing a scroll destroys it.
Ritual Caster and Book of Ancient Secrets are still useful enough to pick even if you never add any new spells.
Even in a campaign with 0 magic items, you can still copy spells from wizard spellbooks.
Could you cite the scribing destroys the scroll? I've read through "Copying a Spell into the Book" multiple times and it says no such thing. I also found no instance of it in the DMG. Mike Mearls made a tweet saying they intended that, but. Copy from a spellbook no longer destroys the spell in the spellbook so why should a scroll be any different?
Could you cite the scribing destroys the scroll? I've read through "Copying a Spell into the Book" multiple times and it says no such thing. I also found no instance of it in the DMG.
Copy from a spellbook no longer destroys the spell in the spellbook so why should a scroll be any different?
Because they're not the same thing. You could also ask why a wizard can't prepare spells directly from a spell scroll.
One is a thorough description of how to cast a spell written in a plain old book. The other is a magic item containing a "mystical cipher" you can read to cast a spell once.
The reason that you can cast spells from scrolls is because they are written specifically to be easily read and cast, but the exchange is that the magic is spent upon casting. If you are learning from an ally's spell book, they would probably be more than willing to help explain and also demonstrate the casting of the spell for you to scribe it your own way easier. Finding another spell book would be a HUGE find and should be treated as such by the DM.
I created a "simplified" crafting system for my campaign that you're welcome to use. It puts most of the responsibility into the player's hands, allowing them to be creative and not overburdening the DM with complex systems and rules.
First, you give them a gather DC for general materials of certain qualities or a type of materials related to a creature or area they found (rare poison materials from a snake, uncommon fire materials from a volcano, very rare electrical materials from a creature, etc).
Second, once you have materials for the difficulty tier (common, uncommon, rare, etc.), players can attempt to create different items while the DM references the Crafting Table.
Gathering Materials Table
Material Quality
Gather DC
Monster CR
Common
5
1-3
Uncommon
10
4-8
Rare
15
9-12
Very Rare
20
13-18
Legendary
25
19-24
Artifact
30
25+
Gather Time = 2 x Gather DC (in minutes).
Gathering Notes and Rules:
First the DM sets the Gather DC based on the region, nearby Monster’s CRs, or shops village (uncommon), town (up to rare), or city (up to very rare). Refer to the table below.
Roll 1d20 and use your Tool or related Skill bonus:
Proficiency in both a tool and related skills (e.g. Herbalism & Nature) = Advantage for gathering using the higher bonus of the two. Other examples include Sleight of Hand & Tinkering, Survival & Herbalism to gather, Arcana and Alchemy for arcane effects, Religion and Alchemy for divine effects, etc. Xanathar's Guide has a whole chapter on this.
If you only have proficiency in a skill or a tool, just make a normal 1d20 skill check using the bonus.
If you do not have proficiency in a related skill or tool, roll with Disadvantage using the higher bonus.
Gather Time = 2 x Gather DC (in minutes).
Success yields 1d6 materials, +1 for every 5 pts above the Gather DC. So if you have a DC15 and you roll a 21, you gather 1d6+1 materials.
Nat 20 gets 2d6 materials plus any additional bonuses as mentioned above or 1d6 higher quality materials (player’s choice).
Natural 01 produces no materials no matter what the bonus is, possibly even destroying the source of the supply for others at the DM's discretion (i.e. damaged dragon scales during a gather).
When searching a region with multiple CR’s, just set the DC or let the player's roll decide what materials might be available by referencing the table above.
For example, if monster in a region have CRs between ¼ and 10, you can let the player's Herbalism roll determine what kind are found. So if the player rolled a 13, she found 1d6 Uncommon materials. If she rolled a 21 for herbalism, she would find 1d6+1 rare materials, since CR10 means there is a max of rare materials in that area.
Alternately the DM can give the player a range available and let the player choose what they're looking for. The DM tells Joe that he can search for common to rare herbs in the region he's in. On the next short rest, Joe asks to search for uncommon herbs (DC10), makes a skill check and rolls 23, yielding 1d6+2 uncommon herbs because he's over 10 pts over the DC.
Crafting
Once players have gathered enough materials, they'll probably want to create potions, scrolls, magic arrows, armor, and a number of interesting things. Many of the rules when combining skill and tool proficiencies for gathering still apply to crafting, and more can be found in Xanathar's Guide. The DM sets the DC based on what the player wants to accomplish. Then gives them a craft time duration and cost. Then the player rolls and hopes for the best. See crafting notes blow for specifics...
Crafting Table
Quality
DC
Total Time to Craft
Level
Dmg / HP
Magic
Spell Level
Craft Cost
Common
5
1x Short Rest
n/a
n/a
n/a
n/a
1gp (if any)
Uncommon
10
1x Long Rest
1st
Up to 1d6
+0
1st, 2nd
25gp / level
Rare
15
2x Long Rests
5th
Up to 2d6
+1
3rd, 4th
100gp / level
Very Rare
20
3x Long Rests
9th
Up to 3d6
+2
5th, 6th
200gp / level
Legendary
25
4x Long Rests
13th
Up to 4d6
+3
7th, 8th
400gp / level
Artifact
30
5x Long Rests
17+
Up to 5d6
+4
9th
800gp / level
Crafting Notes:
DC Roll: Advantage may be gained by hiring apprentices at the cost of 50gp/day each, additional related proficiencies, or proficient allies can help (DM might lower the DC by 1 per additional helper, or if conditions are ideal).
Time: Creation period and # of successes needed (roll at end of each rest). Failure means it just takes longer, so try again next time.
For example, a player making a 3rd level scroll can do so over the course of 2x long rests, provided they succeed both times.
Crafting time for permanent items like Armor, Weapons, Wands, and Rings are measured in Weeks. Not rests.
Level: Helps determine Craft Cost multiplier for items that don't have an inherent level and can also be tied to the character's equivalent level.
Bonus: How much damage, healing, or equivalent the item can be. For example, DC10 can yield 1d6 poison damage once, 1d6 immediate healing, 1d6 bonus to one skill roll or saving throw, etc.
Magic: Represents the possible magic bonus for single use item like an arrow or permanent items such as a sword, armor, or ring.
Permanent and duration based magic items will take more time and have an increased cost as noted below.
Spell Level: Scrolls, Potions, Wands, etc. May require Arcana, Religion, or Nature to create, identify, or use.
Craft Cost: Level column x craft cost (x5 cost for permanent items) in special materials like scroll parchment, magic ink, vials, stabilization liquids, rare wood, metal, and stone, holy waters, acid containment vials, etc.
For example, to create a single use 5th level spell scroll, we look at the caster level (which is a wizard of level 9). Then the cost is 200/level x 9 = 1,800gp.
But a +2 sword would be 9th x 200 x 5 = 9,000gp to create.
Natural 20s: Yield 2x items created for single use potions, scrolls, arrows, etc. OR you might increased bonus by one step, double the duration, etc. You can get creative with the DMs approval.
For example, crafting a Wand of Fireballs, might yield extra charges or increased spell DC.
Crafting a +2 Long Bow with one Nat 20 might make it +3, or it might be +2 Longbow with 1d6 extra force damage, or +2 Longbow with a base damage of 1d10.
Two Nat 20’s while crafting might give 2 awesome property increases, etc.
Natural 01: Lose 1d6 crafting materials on a critical failure (assuming you have more than one material).
Common Items: Single use items, ammunition, basic food, basic herbs, etc.
Generally 1d6 items are produced over a 1-hour Short Rest with a DC of 5.
Every 5 pts above the DC may produce one additional arrow, cooking dish, bandage, etc.
Permanent Magic: Crafting time for Armor, Weapons, Wands, Rings, measured in Weeks, and the cost is 5x the normal cost.
XGE has a section on the brewing potions of healing, under "Downtime Revisited".
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
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There's been a very big shift in the method of playing D&D over the years which has tried to mirror a lot of what people expect from other media like video games and movies. When D&D was young there was a great deal of time put into the game and it was because of most of the mechanics worked to that effect. Health was recovered slower, gaining levels required finding a trainer, the adventurers needed to return to town after delving into a dungeon to resupply and recuperate. All of this, and more, gave reason for the players to have a lot of down time, and that gave the players time to build castles, craft potions, create magical items, and use the gold they acquired from dungeons. It even led to having a lot more time to invest in character and social developments. Today's D&D is more focused on going out and adventuring, leveling up faster, and making things like health and items much easier to manage so you can get back into the action.
Crafting systems don't hold well in today's D&D but the idea of them could still work with some creative thinking. The people who are looking to integrate crafting solutions into D&D are, generally, in one of three camps: old school gamers who remember "the good ol' days", players who enjoy crafting systems in video games, or players who want access to any item rather than rely on a luck/DM fiat. There's little in the way of making crafting streamlined in today's game since downtime isn't an active part of the game, so the crafting will end up being put in the background. The part of crafting that you can put in the foreground is the gathering, this is something that's active, you can make it so monsters drop ingredients, you can have them use rolls to find items, and you can have them actively seek out items on side/quests. Players who are interested in crafting can use those ingredients and make stuff, the players who aren't interested can simply sell the ingredients or trade them for the items they want.
The solution I'm working on is a simple breakdown of items, right now potions, into 3 components that can be purchased and gathered. The ingredients will have a Survival/Nature DC assigned to each component based on how easy it is to obtain the items. For example water will have a DC of 0 since it's something that can be found or made with ease, where as the herbal ingredient of a Healing Potion will be a DC 15 to reflect the rarity, then Powdered Silver as the catalyst which will have a DC of 13 since it's fairly easy to go find a mine and try to gather ore. This is an active part of the crafting system, players can go out and try to gather ingredients or purchase them. It's also possible that creatures might have some of this on them. Beasts generally don't carry gold, but now maybe they have some of the healing herbs near their lair, a small pocket of silver in their cave, or some dead bandits with stuff on them that can be turned into silver powder or sold for the ingredients. You can integrate the ingredients into a loot table or just randomly
The last half of the solution is the actual crafting part, and this is the part that happens during down time. Most DMs wave off down time with a few words, or a small summary of what happens, so crafting should be able to fit into this model. It should also be able to fit into the model where players are playing out their down time, a solution to fit both situations. Here I use a similar approach to gathering and borrow from the DMG (I don't own XGTE). Each ingredient has a DC assigned to it for the crafting side, Water is 0, the healing herbs have a scaling DC based on the tier of potion, and the Powdered Silver has a static DC of 2. Now, you add up the DC of each ingredient to get the final DC to craft the item, you assign a period of time based on the GP cost of the item, and you're done. This approach allows the game to move as quickly, or slowly, as the table is comfortable with and still allows the crafting of almost anything as long as the ingredients are present.
In the end though, crafting is something that has been phased out into an arbitrary function. If you want to do crafting you'll either have to put some effort into making something that can be integrated without too much book work or use some off the cuff solutions with the loose concepts in the books. Crafting isn't for everyone, and you'll find that most tables will have people who enjoy it and people who don't care. Figuring out how much effort your table wants to put into it will be the first step.
Since an Herbalism Kit can be used to make Health potions, just what is anyone's idea of how fast and how many can be made. I feel this should be about 1 every day if they devote their time to it and less later on, or would it be that if they were not traveling they could make a batch of say 5 potions in one day. I feel this will benefit my players if they can do this. I will be including this to my games, but I want advice as to what rate I should keep it at.
Proficiency in an herbalism kit is required for making potions, it isn't the only thing used for making them though. You still need to actually craft the magical item, which is described on pages 128 and 129 of the DMG:
Basically, you need to be a spellcaster of a minimum level based on the item's rarity. You must be able to cast any spells associated with that magic item (a potion of heroism requires the heroism spell, a wand of magic missiles requires the magic missile spell, etc...). The DMG has a chart for magical items, but for example a common item costs 100g to craft, while an uncommon item costs 500g to craft. You then spend a spell slot for any required spells, 8 hours crafting, and 25g per day until the cost of the magic item is spent (so 4 days for a common item and 16 days for an uncommon item).
Now, depending on how nice or dickish of a DM you have/are, you could say that they can create more than one potion using this method (maybe a number equal to their spell casting modifier). Sure, it might seem like they are just throwing out potions left and right at first, but considering it takes 200 days for a Rare item and 2000 days for a Very Rare, they won't be really doing much at later levels. Also, the fact that they are adventurers, not shopkeepers, they won't exactly have 8 hours a day every day to be doing nothing but crafting potions (this isn't considered light activity, so they can't do it while resting). So, you figure, between the 8 hour long rest, and 8 hours crafting, that's only 8 hours a day for adventuring (including travelling to/from a location). The fighter/barbarian/rogue isn't going to just sit around while the wizard fuddy duddys around with his stash.
That's also assuming they have enough materials for crafting that many potions (figure that's what the gold expenditure is, so they spend the actual gold in town to buy the herbs/bottles/etc... and then the time crafting per 25g spent). So, if they plan on crafting on the fly, they'll have to make sure to buy the materials/herbs (or hope to find the right materials in the wilderness). Add in the time it takes to craft while they are busy adventuring, and you won't see them crafting items on the fly very much (probably only in downtime while in town).
One final note: multiple spell casters can work on an item together; so if you have a party with four spell casters in it (Paladin, Cleric, Bard, Wizard perhaps) all working together for a single potion of healing (common), they could craft it in one 8 hour day (still spending the 100g total). If you decide to let them craft multiple at once (and use my spell casting modifier idea), have them designate a single person to be the main crafter and the others to be his/her helpers.
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This is understandably quite extensive and time-consuming in the game. I think I might home rule it to make potion making easier, I am a little bit of a sadistic, but a generous one at that when it comes to my encounters. I feel that my players will not be spending all of their time making potions just for them to be used for a few minutes. I think I will probably reduce the time and possibly money needed to craft potions compared to normal magics items and they are consumable and the magic items are not. Thanks for the information, I will remember those page numbers.
Yeah the crafting rules in 5e remind me of the original editions - taking up so much time and resources for what you get, that it's basically easier to just buy them.
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D&D Beyond FoundersActually, good point and my flippant comment above didn't really come across right.
The real goal should be to provide sufficient flexibility to allow people to play the adventurer that they want to play and, if that means they want to be able to craft things, then there needs to be a framework to allow that, without breaking the game, but also allowing them to do that AND go adventuring.
I used to play a mad alchemist Rogue, way back, who loved concocting various potions, bombs, poisons etc and testing them out on unsuspecting monsters.
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I usually present some sort of mini quest mechanic. Only certain herbs possess the magical properties to brew certain potions, finding those herbs locally can be a challenge. I let the players use a multitude of skills like insight (if they've been to the region before) history/investigation (if looking/referencing text) nature, survival and medicine etc. Once they've identified the herb ie. Winterpetal or Hollowswart or something other they can attempt to brew potions with it. This herb may be the same thing they've been using just called something different in a different land.
I then roll a d4 and add or subtract depending on conditions to determine how many they can brew. After that I have them roll a d20. 1-5 is a 1d4+con potion, 6-10 is a d6 + con, 11-15 is a d8 + con, 16-20 is a 2d6+con. I use this as a way to show that crafting in the wilderness can not be as fruitful as buying the high quality ones, but is helpful in a pinch. The more difficult you want it to be, add more ingredients ie. Saffron/Cinnamon/expensive spices and herbs) this can drive up the cost and such if you want to go that route.
Got this method from a friend of mine who also DMs.
― Steven Erikson, Memories of Ice
Many of the above comments calculate the cost of a Potions of Healing being 100gp because it is a common item, but DMG p135 states that the things like potions and scrolls are often half the cost of other magic items because they are consumable. Therefore, they would only take 50gp of material to create.
Crafting is actually one of my least favorite parts of DnD 5e, and I personally like the Dev really did it a huge injustice.
I "get" the idea of putting magic items in Common/Uncommon/Rare/Very Rare/Legendary buckets with estimated prices, I'm pretty fine with that over all.
On the other hand disposable items like scroll and potions (back in 3rd that included wands) and I agree with Stormknight flippant comment that Adventurers should be Adventurering.
At least in the games I've played and what seems to be a theme in this edition that magic items have become much more rare then they were in other editions. The problem for me is that I've previously use crafting as preparation for Adventuring. As the world of magic items shops gets less well stocked and prices get higher it becomes more important that PCs can do this for themselves. What if a fight with the Big Bad is coming up and the Party wants to invest in a Life Insurance policy (a scroll of Revivify) So that if someone drops, you can bring them back without it being an ordeal, plus the Churches always rip you off with Raise Dead. There is no way to adequately cost out how much that should cost if the party wants to do it themselves. The same with a potion of Lesser Restoration, if you're in Chult you're really going to want to have a few of these to go around.
In 3rd Edition my Wizard spent a huge amount of money on scrolls because there is always those spells that you don't want to memorize, but when you need them you need them now like Arcane Lock to aid an escape or Knock to handle a magical lock the rogue can't crack.
To me this is more important because there are a lot of features built around this now. Wizards are mostly fine because they get spell every level their spellbook, but anyone else with the Ritual Caster feat or a Pact of the Tome Warlock.
I have a Pact of the Tomelock in a game and I've spent a huuuuuuge amount of money on scrolls. First I have to buy the scroll then I have to pay to scribe it. The problem is the scroll it self is almost useless to me after unless I want to insta-cast it. So, what I really need is a Wizard College's Library Card so I can rent-a-scroll and scribe it.
It feels to me that the price of consumable magic items have become a lot higher and now really can't be considered consumable given the cost.
On the contrary. Unlike 3e, 5e is designed around the assumption that you have no magic items. Magic items cause you to punch above your weight.
A scroll of Revivify is going to cost you the same as casting Revivify yourself plus the cost of a 3rd level scroll and you're dependent on the cleric being alive.
You'd be better off buying the material components for Revivify and buying a scroll of Gentle Repose. If someone dies and the cleric has spell slots for it, cast Revivify. If the cleric doesn't have slots or died, a wizard can still cast Gentle Repose to buy time.
Even with all the nerfs they've received in 5e, spells are still really, really strong. An item that lets anyone gain the benefits of a spell without using spell slots is game-breaking unless it's expensive.
It's less important now since you don't have to to pre-assign spells to slots and wizards can cast ritual spells straight from their spellbook.
Scribing a scroll destroys it.
Ritual Caster and Book of Ancient Secrets are still useful enough to pick even if you never add any new spells.
Even in a campaign with 0 magic items, you can still copy spells from wizard spellbooks.
I really think you need to readjust your expectations with regards to spell scrolls and spell potions. Getting around the game's built-in limits for how many spells you can cast in a day should be expensive. You're not expected to have these items to succeed.
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Yeah the crafting in 5e leaves something heavily to be desired. Crafting time based on item cost seems dumb to me. You're telling me an apothecary can only pump out 2 health potions a tenday? I wanted to make a Rogue Assassin who specialized in poisons until I found out that because poisons are illegal their prices are inflated which artificially inflates the crafting cost and time too. Not to mention most poisons (including the over 1000gp cost ones and ones that require a quest to kill a dangerous monster for its venom) are pretty lack luster in their effects. It makes it so much more sense to just buy basic poisons on the black market.
I really hope they work out a better crafting mechanics in the future. Even if its purely for more basic items.
Mike Mearls made a tweet saying they intended that, but. Copy from a spellbook no longer destroys the spell in the spellbook so why should a scroll be any different?
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The reason that you can cast spells from scrolls is because they are written specifically to be easily read and cast, but the exchange is that the magic is spent upon casting. If you are learning from an ally's spell book, they would probably be more than willing to help explain and also demonstrate the casting of the spell for you to scribe it your own way easier. Finding another spell book would be a HUGE find and should be treated as such by the DM.
When did it ever do that?
I created a "simplified" crafting system for my campaign that you're welcome to use. It puts most of the responsibility into the player's hands, allowing them to be creative and not overburdening the DM with complex systems and rules.
Gathering Materials Table
Material Quality
Gather DC
Monster CR
Common
5
1-3
Uncommon
10
4-8
Rare
15
9-12
Very Rare
20
13-18
Legendary
25
19-24
Artifact
30
25+
Gather Time = 2 x Gather DC (in minutes).
Gathering Notes and Rules:
Crafting
Once players have gathered enough materials, they'll probably want to create potions, scrolls, magic arrows, armor, and a number of interesting things. Many of the rules when combining skill and tool proficiencies for gathering still apply to crafting, and more can be found in Xanathar's Guide. The DM sets the DC based on what the player wants to accomplish. Then gives them a craft time duration and cost. Then the player rolls and hopes for the best. See crafting notes blow for specifics...
Crafting Table
Quality
DC
Total Time to Craft
Level
Dmg / HP
Magic
Spell Level
Craft Cost
Common
5
1x Short Rest
n/a
n/a
n/a
n/a
1gp (if any)
Uncommon
10
1x Long Rest
1st
Up to 1d6
+0
1st, 2nd
25gp / level
Rare
15
2x Long Rests
5th
Up to 2d6
+1
3rd, 4th
100gp / level
Very Rare
20
3x Long Rests
9th
Up to 3d6
+2
5th, 6th
200gp / level
Legendary
25
4x Long Rests
13th
Up to 4d6
+3
7th, 8th
400gp / level
Artifact
30
5x Long Rests
17+
Up to 5d6
+4
9th
800gp / level
Crafting Notes:
XGE has a section on the brewing potions of healing, under "Downtime Revisited".
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well yeah that's the point of buying stuff
There's been a very big shift in the method of playing D&D over the years which has tried to mirror a lot of what people expect from other media like video games and movies. When D&D was young there was a great deal of time put into the game and it was because of most of the mechanics worked to that effect. Health was recovered slower, gaining levels required finding a trainer, the adventurers needed to return to town after delving into a dungeon to resupply and recuperate. All of this, and more, gave reason for the players to have a lot of down time, and that gave the players time to build castles, craft potions, create magical items, and use the gold they acquired from dungeons. It even led to having a lot more time to invest in character and social developments. Today's D&D is more focused on going out and adventuring, leveling up faster, and making things like health and items much easier to manage so you can get back into the action.
Crafting systems don't hold well in today's D&D but the idea of them could still work with some creative thinking. The people who are looking to integrate crafting solutions into D&D are, generally, in one of three camps: old school gamers who remember "the good ol' days", players who enjoy crafting systems in video games, or players who want access to any item rather than rely on a luck/DM fiat. There's little in the way of making crafting streamlined in today's game since downtime isn't an active part of the game, so the crafting will end up being put in the background. The part of crafting that you can put in the foreground is the gathering, this is something that's active, you can make it so monsters drop ingredients, you can have them use rolls to find items, and you can have them actively seek out items on side/quests. Players who are interested in crafting can use those ingredients and make stuff, the players who aren't interested can simply sell the ingredients or trade them for the items they want.
The solution I'm working on is a simple breakdown of items, right now potions, into 3 components that can be purchased and gathered. The ingredients will have a Survival/Nature DC assigned to each component based on how easy it is to obtain the items. For example water will have a DC of 0 since it's something that can be found or made with ease, where as the herbal ingredient of a Healing Potion will be a DC 15 to reflect the rarity, then Powdered Silver as the catalyst which will have a DC of 13 since it's fairly easy to go find a mine and try to gather ore. This is an active part of the crafting system, players can go out and try to gather ingredients or purchase them. It's also possible that creatures might have some of this on them. Beasts generally don't carry gold, but now maybe they have some of the healing herbs near their lair, a small pocket of silver in their cave, or some dead bandits with stuff on them that can be turned into silver powder or sold for the ingredients. You can integrate the ingredients into a loot table or just randomly
The last half of the solution is the actual crafting part, and this is the part that happens during down time. Most DMs wave off down time with a few words, or a small summary of what happens, so crafting should be able to fit into this model. It should also be able to fit into the model where players are playing out their down time, a solution to fit both situations. Here I use a similar approach to gathering and borrow from the DMG (I don't own XGTE). Each ingredient has a DC assigned to it for the crafting side, Water is 0, the healing herbs have a scaling DC based on the tier of potion, and the Powdered Silver has a static DC of 2. Now, you add up the DC of each ingredient to get the final DC to craft the item, you assign a period of time based on the GP cost of the item, and you're done. This approach allows the game to move as quickly, or slowly, as the table is comfortable with and still allows the crafting of almost anything as long as the ingredients are present.
In the end though, crafting is something that has been phased out into an arbitrary function. If you want to do crafting you'll either have to put some effort into making something that can be integrated without too much book work or use some off the cuff solutions with the loose concepts in the books. Crafting isn't for everyone, and you'll find that most tables will have people who enjoy it and people who don't care. Figuring out how much effort your table wants to put into it will be the first step.