Shortsword attacks: 1d6+8 slashing + 3d6 other (based on dragon type from weapon, fire for red, force for topaz)
Rapier attacks 1d8+8 slashing + 3d6 other
Average damage in a turn: 147
Average damage in a turn for full critical: 247
(Reminder this is only a level 5 character and he already has higher AC than any Creature in D&D and outdamaging nearly all (Aspect of Tiamat’s Multiattack averages 67 damage a turn) with nothing but the help of a few magic items)
Yes, if you build your level five character to max out their weapon attacks, they can get four a round at full damage, and use action surge to burst to six.
I believe you're correct about being able to manage the weapon exchanges for one round. Especially since there's not much point in swapping a rapier for that extra one(1) average point.
But the super-high AC comes from giving them two very rare pieces of armor. An average level 5 character might not even have full plate at all.
And the damage comes from giving them two (or even three!) legendary weapons that happen to be perfect for maximizing your damage off multiple attacks.
The only issue I'm seeing here is that you attack with shortswords which have the Vex mastery property. If you want to use the Nick mastery property, you need to use scimitars. But otherwise, the only difference would be that the damage type is slashing, not piercing. The damage itself is the same.
The only issue I'm seeing here is that you attack with shortswords which have the Vex mastery property. If you want to use the Nick mastery property, you need to use scimitars. But otherwise, the only difference would be that the damage type is slashing, not piercing. The damage itself is the same.
Shortsword attacks: 1d6+8 slashing + 3d6 other (based on dragon type from weapon, fire for red, force for topaz)
Rapier attacks 1d8+8 slashing + 3d6 other
Average damage in a turn: 147
Average damage in a turn for full critical: 247
(Reminder this is only a level 5 character and he already has higher AC than any Creature in D&D and outdamaging nearly all (Aspect of Tiamat’s Multiattack averages 67 damage a turn) with nothing but the help of a few magic items)
Yes, if you build your level five character to max out their weapon attacks, they can get four a round at full damage, and use action surge to burst to six.
I believe you're correct about being able to manage the weapon exchanges for one round. Especially since there's not much point in swapping a rapier for that extra one(1) average point.
But the super-high AC comes from giving them two very rare pieces of armor. An average level 5 character might not even have full plate at all.
And the damage comes from giving them two (or even three!) legendary weapons that happen to be perfect for maximizing your damage off multiple attacks.
I was having a little fun with it, but yes you’re correct, 5th level characters should never have access to that tier of magical weapons, but overall the concept stays, and higher level characters should be doing even more damage with more attacks with roughly the same weaponry and more. There’s a plethora of magic items and spells to be casted to up the damage and AC even further beyond that
The extra attacks from the light property and the dual wielding feat are from two different features. Enhanced Dual Wielding requiring an attack with a light weapon to be used does not make it the same feature that gives you an extra attack from the light property, like you are saying it does. Nick only replaces the attack from the Light property meaning you can still bonus action attack with Enhanced Dual Wielding.
In other words the Nick does not replace the extra attack from Enhanced Dual Wielding, because the the extra attack from dual wielding does not come the Light property of the weapon. Both features requiring an attack with the light weapon being made first doesn't make them the same feature.
Light When you take the Attack action on your turn and attack with a Light weapon, you can make one extra attack as a Bonus Action later on the same turn.
Enhanced Dual Wielding. When you take the Attack action on your turn and attack with a weapon that has the Light property, you can make one extra attack as a Bonus Action later on the same turn with a different weapon, which must be a Melee weapon that lacks the Two-Handed property.
I think it's more confusing than it would otherwise have been since the wording for Light and EDW are so similar. An extra sentence in the DW feat description (since that feat is required to have two "extra" attacks from fighting with two weapons) might have preemptively cleared up some issues. (I think your explanation is one of the better ones I've seen -- Light and DW, despite being worded so similarly, are two different features that offer two very similar bonus-action options, _one_ of which can be turned into part of the attack action by including a weapon with Nick.)
4 attacks at L5 with modifiers added for each if you take dual wielder with two-weapon fighting and use two light weapons (or one extra non-two handed weapon that you juggle for more damage) one of which has nick:
1st attack: Main hand (nick) + Off hand (light)
2nd attack: Main hand
Bonus action: Off hand
But I think using your bonus action for smite and other buffs is better than and a bonus action attack.
No, all of this is based in the light property of the main weapon attack. This light weapon allows you an extra attack if: the other weapon is light or the other wepon is not 2H and you have the feat. Everytime the nick property speaks about the extra attack granted for the light weapon property. You can be bonified only once, not twice, for the extra attack of the light wepon property
No, all of this is based in the light property of the main weapon attack. This light weapon allows you an extra attack if: the other weapon is light or the other wepon is not 2H and you have the feat. Everytime the nick property speaks about the extra attack granted for the light weapon property. You can be bonified only once, not twice, for the extra attack of the light wepon property
Dual Wielder is explicitly not the extra attack of the Light property:
When you take the Attack action on your turn and attack with a weapon that has the Light property
If they meant the extra attack of the light property, they could've said so, like they did with Nick. DW has a broader trigger condition.
If you want to argue they didn't mean to differentiate the two, you can, but IIRC we have a (second-hand) comment from the designers that they did.
And also if it didn't give the extra attack, Dual Wielder would be a pretty bad feat.
No, all of this is based in the light property of the main weapon attack. This light weapon allows you an extra attack if: the other weapon is light or the other wepon is not 2H and you have the feat. Everytime the nick property speaks about the extra attack granted for the light weapon property. You can be bonified only once, not twice, for the extra attack of the light wepon property
Dual Wielder is explicitly not the extra attack of the Light property:
When you take the Attack action on your turn and attack with a weapon that has the Light property
If they meant the extra attack of the light property, they could've said so, like they did with Nick. DW has a broader trigger condition.
If you want to argue they didn't mean to differentiate the two, you can, but IIRC we have a (second-hand) comment from the designers that they did.
And also if it didn't give the extra attack, Dual Wielder would be a pretty bad feat.
Treantmonk Update on today's video: Monty from the Dungeon Dudes contacted me to let me know he had asked Jeremy Crawford about Dual Wielder at Gencon, and here's how it works: It provides a single bonus action attack, so if you are using a weapon with the Nick Mastery that's one more attack. Two Weapon Fighting does add your ability score modifier to the damage of the extra attack.
No, all of this is based in the light property of the main weapon attack. This light weapon allows you an extra attack if: the other weapon is light or the other wepon is not 2H and you have the feat. Everytime the nick property speaks about the extra attack granted for the light weapon property. You can be bonified only once, not twice, for the extra attack of the light wepon property
Dual Wielder is explicitly not the extra attack of the Light property:
When you take the Attack action on your turn and attack with a weapon that has the Light property
If they meant the extra attack of the light property, they could've said so, like they did with Nick. DW has a broader trigger condition.
If you want to argue they didn't mean to differentiate the two, you can, but IIRC we have a (second-hand) comment from the designers that they did.
And also if it didn't give the extra attack, Dual Wielder would be a pretty bad feat.
Dual wielder is explicity created to allow you to make the extra bonus attack provided for the light weapon property you made with your light weapon, with another weapon that is not two handed. Only for that. If you haven't this feat (Dual wielder) you can't make an extra attack with a weapon that is not "light"
1: Scimitar with Nick property should be in the OFFHAND. Nick property simply takes THAT extra attack and makes it PART of the attack action, instead of a bonus action preserving your bonus action. So main attack should be the Short Sword.
2: THE extra attack with the Scimitar, will benefit from Vex that you proceed with the main attack.
3: Two Weapon Fighting Style: Uses all the same wording as the extra attack from using a light weapon, EXCEPT it provides bonus damage for the second weapon, even if it is positive (since it was already figured in, if negative). Standard Extra Attack from level 5 Feature proceeds WITHOUT advantage from Hex, because you got that advantage on the extra attack with the Scimitar. (This is debatable because nothing ever tells us the ORDER of the attacks. Do you get off hard attack BEFORE level 5 extra attack, or after.
4: Extra Attack as a bonus action... (If people haven't disagreed with me before they MAY here, but it is very arguably correct based on the precise word usage of the rules...) The Extra Attack from the Light Weapon Feature, provide A attack with the OFFHAND as a bonus action. The Nick mastery ONLY takes THAT extra attack and folds it into the standard attack action, thus preserving your bonus action. It is quite clear to me, that the intent (and precise wording used) is that the light weapon property ONLY allows for ONE extra attack with the offhand because you are using a light weapon in both hands. THAT extra attack, because of Nick now DOESN'T cost a bonus action, but THAT extra attack is now used, so you DO NOT get an additional attack AS a bonus action as part of the light weapon property, since you already used THAT extra attack as PART of the attack action due to the Nick Mastery.
I believe this is good, as it now gives a REASON to use the Dual Weilder Feat. Since that feat allows you to use a non light weapon in the OFFHAND. If you could get a second offhand attack as a bonus action from Nick Mastery, you would never use a nonlight weapon in the OFFHAND, as none have the Nick property, so using anything else, such as a longsword, would mean forgoing the second extra offhand attack for a weapon that does maybe 1 or 2 points of damage more.
Further, interpreting the interaction between Nick and the Light weapon extra attack property this way brings the Nick features benefit more in line with the benefit provided by all the other weapon mysteries.
In conclusion, you would have 3 weapon attacks at level 5, not 4 as a lot of people think (due to doubling the extra attack allowed by the light weapon property), and certainly not 5 attacks because you allowed that extra attack from the Two Weapon fighting style to go off with EACH attack of the attack action, instead of it simply allowing you to use your ability modifier, as intended and stated in the rules.
Personally, I would go a step farther at my table by house ruling the Dual Weilder Feat, to provide the Light Weapon Extra Attack Feature while using non-light, but not Heavy weapons. That way, you can use two longswords again.
I don't mind a standard and light weapon for usage, as it's more historically accurate for people to use a smaller weapon in the off-hand, but AS WRITTEN, you CAN'T use a smaller weapon in the OFFHAND, only the main hand.
3: Two Weapon Fighting Style: Uses all the same wording as the extra attack from using a light weapon, EXCEPT it provides bonus damage for the second weapon, even if it is positive (since it was already figured in, if negative). Standard Extra Attack from level 5 Feature proceeds WITHOUT advantage from Hex, because you got that advantage on the extra attack with the Scimitar. (This is debatable because nothing ever tells us the ORDER of the attacks. Do you get off hard attack BEFORE level 5 extra attack, or after.
4: Extra Attack as a bonus action... (If people haven't disagreed with me before they MAY here, but it is very arguably correct based on the precise word usage of the rules...) The Extra Attack from the Light Weapon Feature, provide A attack with the OFFHAND as a bonus action. The Nick mastery ONLY takes THAT extra attack and folds it into the standard attack action, thus preserving your bonus action. It is quite clear to me, that the intent (and precise wording used) is that the light weapon property ONLY allows for ONE extra attack with the offhand because you are using a light weapon in both hands. THAT extra attack, because of Nick now DOESN'T cost a bonus action, but THAT extra attack is now used, so you DO NOT get an additional attack AS a bonus action as part of the light weapon property, since you already used THAT extra attack as PART of the attack action due to the Nick Mastery.
I believe this is good, as it now gives a REASON to use the Dual Weilder Feat. Since that feat allows you to use a non light weapon in the OFFHAND. If you could get a second offhand attack as a bonus action from Nick Mastery, you would never use a nonlight weapon in the OFFHAND, as none have the Nick property, so using anything else, such as a longsword, would mean forgoing the second extra offhand attack for a weapon that does maybe 1 or 2 points of damage more.
Further, interpreting the interaction between Nick and the Light weapon extra attack property this way brings the Nick features benefit more in line with the benefit provided by all the other weapon mysteries.
In conclusion, you would have 3 weapon attacks at level 5, not 4 as a lot of people think (due to doubling the extra attack allowed by the light weapon property), and certainly not 5 attacks because you allowed that extra attack from the Two Weapon fighting style to go off with EACH attack of the attack action, instead of it simply allowing you to use your ability modifier, as intended and stated in the rules.
You get four attacks at level 5 using the duel wielder feat, not the two weapon fighting style.
1: Scimitar with Nick property should be in the OFFHAND. Nick property simply takes THAT extra attack and makes it PART of the attack action, instead of a bonus action preserving your bonus action. So main attack should be the Short Sword.
2: THE extra attack with the Scimitar, will benefit from Vex that you proceed with the main attack.
3: Two Weapon Fighting Style: Uses all the same wording as the extra attack from using a light weapon, EXCEPT it provides bonus damage for the second weapon, even if it is positive (since it was already figured in, if negative). Standard Extra Attack from level 5 Feature proceeds WITHOUT advantage from Hex, because you got that advantage on the extra attack with the Scimitar. (This is debatable because nothing ever tells us the ORDER of the attacks. Do you get off hard attack BEFORE level 5 extra attack, or after.
4: Extra Attack as a bonus action... (If people haven't disagreed with me before they MAY here, but it is very arguably correct based on the precise word usage of the rules...) The Extra Attack from the Light Weapon Feature, provide A attack with the OFFHAND as a bonus action. The Nick mastery ONLY takes THAT extra attack and folds it into the standard attack action, thus preserving your bonus action. It is quite clear to me, that the intent (and precise wording used) is that the light weapon property ONLY allows for ONE extra attack with the offhand because you are using a light weapon in both hands. THAT extra attack, because of Nick now DOESN'T cost a bonus action, but THAT extra attack is now used, so you DO NOT get an additional attack AS a bonus action as part of the light weapon property, since you already used THAT extra attack as PART of the attack action due to the Nick Mastery.
I believe this is good, as it now gives a REASON to use the Dual Weilder Feat. Since that feat allows you to use a non light weapon in the OFFHAND. If you could get a second offhand attack as a bonus action from Nick Mastery, you would never use a nonlight weapon in the OFFHAND, as none have the Nick property, so using anything else, such as a longsword, would mean forgoing the second extra offhand attack for a weapon that does maybe 1 or 2 points of damage more.
Further, interpreting the interaction between Nick and the Light weapon extra attack property this way brings the Nick features benefit more in line with the benefit provided by all the other weapon mysteries.
In conclusion, you would have 3 weapon attacks at level 5, not 4 as a lot of people think (due to doubling the extra attack allowed by the light weapon property), and certainly not 5 attacks because you allowed that extra attack from the Two Weapon fighting style to go off with EACH attack of the attack action, instead of it simply allowing you to use your ability modifier, as intended and stated in the rules.
I think the same. And agree with everything. I see that way too
I’m going to break this down directly from the Players Handbook
List of all relevant rules:
Weapon Property: Light:
When you take the Attack action on your turn and attack with a Light weapon, you can make one extra attack as a Bonus Action later on the same turn. That extra attack must be made with a different Light weapon, and you don’t add your ability modifier to the extra attack’s damage unless that modifier is negative. For example, you can attack with a Shortsword in one hand and a Dagger in the other using the Attack action and a Bonus Action, but you don’t add your Strength or Dexterity modifier to the damage roll of the Bonus Action unless that modifier is negative.
Mastery Property: Nick:
When you make the extra attack of the Light property, you can make it as part of the Attack action instead of as a Bonus Action. You can make this extra attack only once per turn.
Fighting Style Feat: Two-Weapon Fighting:
When you make an extra attack as a result of using a weapon that has the Light property, you can add your ability modifier to the damage of that attack if you aren’t already adding it to the damage.
General Feat: Dual Wielder:
Enhanced Dual Wielding: When you take the Attack action on your turn and attack with a weapon that has the Light property, you can make one extra attack as a Bonus Action later on the same turn with a different weapon, which must be a melee weapon that lacks the Two-Handed property. You don’t add your ability modifier to extra attack’s damage unless that modifier is negative.
Quick Draw: You can draw or stow two weapons that lack the Two-Handed property when you would normally be able to draw or stow only one.
In Practice:
As a level 5 fighter you’ll have access to the following:
Fighting Style at level 1: Two-Weapon Fighting
Weapon Mastery at level 1: Rapiers, Scimitars, and one other
Action Surge at level 2
Feat at level 4: Dual Wielder
Extra attack at level 5
1) The fighter takes the attack action, making two attacks with a scimitar
2) He then makes another attack with a different scimitar from the Light property, as part of the attack from Nick, while adding his ability score to damage due to Two-Weapon Fighting
3) He makes the extra attack of the Dual Wielder feat, using the second scimitar, or a rapier for the extra damage and Vex Property, or any other non-Heavy melee weapon that you want to implement it’s mastery Property
4) He uses Action Surge for the attack action making two attacks with the rapier or other weapon.
6 attacks, 3 from scimitars, 3 from rapier or other
Notice how none of the above properties or abilities (Light, Nick, Two-Weapon Fighting, and Dual Wielding) require any attacks to be made with different hands, only different weapons
Technically all attacks can be made with one hand, while holding a shield in the other
MAXED OUT!!!
Armor Class: 26 (+3 plate +3 shield)
All weapons are Ascendant Dragon’s Wrath Weapons from Fizban’s Treasury of Dragons:
This weapon is decorated with dragon heads, claws, wings, scales, or Draconic letters. When it steeps in a dragon's hoard, it absorbs the energy of the dragon's breath weapon and deals damage of that type with its special properties.
Whenever you roll a 20 on your attack roll with this weapon, each creature of your choice within 5 feet of the target takes 5 damage of the type dealt by the dragon's breath weapon.
You gain a +3 bonus to attack and damage rolls made using the weapon. On a hit, the weapon deals an extra 3d6damage of the type dealt by the dragon's breath weapon.
As an action, you can unleash a 60-foot cone of destructive energy from the weapon. Each creature in that area must make a DC 18 Dexterity saving throw, taking 12d6 damage of the type dealt by the dragon's breath weapon on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one. Once this action is used, it can't be used again until the next dawn.
Damage:
Scimitar attacks: 1d6+8 slashing + 3d6 other (based on dragon type from weapon, fire for red, force for topaz)
Rapier attacks 1d8+8 slashing + 3d6 other
Average damage in a turn: 147
Average damage in a turn for full critical: 247
(Reminder this is only a level 5 character and he already has higher AC than any Creature in D&D and outdamaging nearly all (Aspect of Tiamat’s Multiattack averages 67 damage a turn) with nothing but the help of a few magic items)
There is a challenge rating 7 boss in PotA with chain lightning prepared, allowing 180 damage in one turn.
The off hand attack can also be a versatile weapon like a spear or longsword, thanks to dual wielder but... the main hand cannot, for some reason. It always says after an attack with a light weapon. Which kinda annoys me. I want to use double flails lol. But they are not light.
As a reminder the Nick / Two Weapon Fighting / Light/ Dual Wielder Bonus action has already been discussed extensively in multiple threads. There is no need to continue that again in here:
And many more, including already in this thread. As such, that is not going to be a constructive conversation to reopen. Users can read over this thread and the others if they wish and form their own understanding. If there are other topics users wish to discuss or clarify in relation, such as the above post, folk can do so. Just remember to be civil, calm and that you do not need to repeat yourself if someone disagrees.
As a reminder the Nick / Two Weapon Fighting / Light/ Dual Wielder Bonus action has already been discussed extensively in multiple threads. There is no need to continue that again in here:
And many more, including already in this thread. As such, that is not going to be a constructive conversation to reopen. Users can read over this thread and the others if they wish and form their own understanding. If there are other topics users wish to discuss or clarify in relation, such as the above post, folk can do so. Just remember to be civil, calm and that you do not need to repeat yourself if someone disagrees.
To be fair, this topic predates many of the others. I think they are all constructive. Plus, it's free content for DNDBeyond ;-)
Last fall, the rules were new. Many didn't understand them, to be expected. Even now, nearly every game I play, someone still manages to get more attacks than allowed-
Sometimes, bonus actions are used twice, once for dual wielder, once for something else. Other times, even the necessary feats and weapon masteries clearly aren't taken, or aren't used with the correct weapons. Shields are used, without careful accounting for weapon switches and draw/stow rules that might allow a shield in some builds. A magic weapon is used for all attacks, without the necessary swaps to a different weapon. Light weapons aren't used when required, for example, ranged weapons without the Light property are used for 4 attacks, also ignoring Reload property. Nick attacks and DW bonus action attacks are taken when the main action was NOT a Light weapon attack. I think many just assume 4 weapon attacks of any type (without action surge) is the 2024 rule for melee characters.
As the OP, I hope more of this information gets out there, so people become familiar with the rules. Yeah, if you build and play it right, it's possible at level 5 for some classes with extra attack, but probably not on every turn, if you have other uses of bonus action.
Yes, if you build your level five character to max out their weapon attacks, they can get four a round at full damage, and use action surge to burst to six.
I believe you're correct about being able to manage the weapon exchanges for one round. Especially since there's not much point in swapping a rapier for that extra one(1) average point.
But the super-high AC comes from giving them two very rare pieces of armor. An average level 5 character might not even have full plate at all.
And the damage comes from giving them two (or even three!) legendary weapons that happen to be perfect for maximizing your damage off multiple attacks.
The only issue I'm seeing here is that you attack with shortswords which have the Vex mastery property. If you want to use the Nick mastery property, you need to use scimitars. But otherwise, the only difference would be that the damage type is slashing, not piercing. The damage itself is the same.
My mistake. Thanks for making the correction
I was having a little fun with it, but yes you’re correct, 5th level characters should never have access to that tier of magical weapons, but overall the concept stays, and higher level characters should be doing even more damage with more attacks with roughly the same weaponry and more. There’s a plethora of magic items and spells to be casted to up the damage and AC even further beyond that
The extra attacks from the light property and the dual wielding feat are from two different features. Enhanced Dual Wielding requiring an attack with a light weapon to be used does not make it the same feature that gives you an extra attack from the light property, like you are saying it does. Nick only replaces the attack from the Light property meaning you can still bonus action attack with Enhanced Dual Wielding.
In other words the Nick does not replace the extra attack from Enhanced Dual Wielding, because the the extra attack from dual wielding does not come the Light property of the weapon. Both features requiring an attack with the light weapon being made first doesn't make them the same feature.
Light
When you take the Attack action on your turn and attack with a Light weapon, you can make one extra attack as a Bonus Action later on the same turn.
Enhanced Dual Wielding. When you take the Attack action on your turn and attack with a weapon that has the Light property, you can make one extra attack as a Bonus Action later on the same turn with a different weapon, which must be a Melee weapon that lacks the Two-Handed property.
I think it's more confusing than it would otherwise have been since the wording for Light and EDW are so similar. An extra sentence in the DW feat description (since that feat is required to have two "extra" attacks from fighting with two weapons) might have preemptively cleared up some issues. (I think your explanation is one of the better ones I've seen -- Light and DW, despite being worded so similarly, are two different features that offer two very similar bonus-action options, _one_ of which can be turned into part of the attack action by including a weapon with Nick.)
4 attacks at L5 with modifiers added for each if you take dual wielder with two-weapon fighting and use two light weapons (or one extra non-two handed weapon that you juggle for more damage) one of which has nick:
1st attack: Main hand (nick) + Off hand (light)
2nd attack: Main hand
Bonus action: Off hand
But I think using your bonus action for smite and other buffs is better than and a bonus action attack.
No, all of this is based in the light property of the main weapon attack. This light weapon allows you an extra attack if: the other weapon is light or the other wepon is not 2H and you have the feat. Everytime the nick property speaks about the extra attack granted for the light weapon property. You can be bonified only once, not twice, for the extra attack of the light wepon property
Dual Wielder is explicitly not the extra attack of the Light property:
If they meant the extra attack of the light property, they could've said so, like they did with Nick. DW has a broader trigger condition.
If you want to argue they didn't mean to differentiate the two, you can, but IIRC we have a (second-hand) comment from the designers that they did.
And also if it didn't give the extra attack, Dual Wielder would be a pretty bad feat.
I remember this comment found in this Treatmonk's pre-release video.
Dual wielder is explicity created to allow you to make the extra bonus attack provided for the light weapon property you made with your light weapon, with another weapon that is not two handed. Only for that. If you haven't this feat (Dual wielder) you can't make an extra attack with a weapon that is not "light"
No, not correct.
1: Scimitar with Nick property should be in the OFFHAND. Nick property simply takes THAT extra attack and makes it PART of the attack action, instead of a bonus action preserving your bonus action. So main attack should be the Short Sword.
2: THE extra attack with the Scimitar, will benefit from Vex that you proceed with the main attack.
3: Two Weapon Fighting Style: Uses all the same wording as the extra attack from using a light weapon, EXCEPT it provides bonus damage for the second weapon, even if it is positive (since it was already figured in, if negative). Standard Extra Attack from level 5 Feature proceeds WITHOUT advantage from Hex, because you got that advantage on the extra attack with the Scimitar. (This is debatable because nothing ever tells us the ORDER of the attacks. Do you get off hard attack BEFORE level 5 extra attack, or after.
4: Extra Attack as a bonus action... (If people haven't disagreed with me before they MAY here, but it is very arguably correct based on the precise word usage of the rules...) The Extra Attack from the Light Weapon Feature, provide A attack with the OFFHAND as a bonus action. The Nick mastery ONLY takes THAT extra attack and folds it into the standard attack action, thus preserving your bonus action. It is quite clear to me, that the intent (and precise wording used) is that the light weapon property ONLY allows for ONE extra attack with the offhand because you are using a light weapon in both hands. THAT extra attack, because of Nick now DOESN'T cost a bonus action, but THAT extra attack is now used, so you DO NOT get an additional attack AS a bonus action as part of the light weapon property, since you already used THAT extra attack as PART of the attack action due to the Nick Mastery.
I believe this is good, as it now gives a REASON to use the Dual Weilder Feat. Since that feat allows you to use a non light weapon in the OFFHAND. If you could get a second offhand attack as a bonus action from Nick Mastery, you would never use a nonlight weapon in the OFFHAND, as none have the Nick property, so using anything else, such as a longsword, would mean forgoing the second extra offhand attack for a weapon that does maybe 1 or 2 points of damage more.
Further, interpreting the interaction between Nick and the Light weapon extra attack property this way brings the Nick features benefit more in line with the benefit provided by all the other weapon mysteries.
In conclusion, you would have 3 weapon attacks at level 5, not 4 as a lot of people think (due to doubling the extra attack allowed by the light weapon property), and certainly not 5 attacks because you allowed that extra attack from the Two Weapon fighting style to go off with EACH attack of the attack action, instead of it simply allowing you to use your ability modifier, as intended and stated in the rules.
Personally, I would go a step farther at my table by house ruling the Dual Weilder Feat, to provide the Light Weapon Extra Attack Feature while using non-light, but not Heavy weapons. That way, you can use two longswords again.
I don't mind a standard and light weapon for usage, as it's more historically accurate for people to use a smaller weapon in the off-hand, but AS WRITTEN, you CAN'T use a smaller weapon in the OFFHAND, only the main hand.
It's legit
You get four attacks at level 5 using the duel wielder feat, not the two weapon fighting style.
I think the same. And agree with everything. I see that way too
There is a challenge rating 7 boss in PotA with chain lightning prepared, allowing 180 damage in one turn.
Aerisi Kalinoth
The off hand attack can also be a versatile weapon like a spear or longsword, thanks to dual wielder but... the main hand cannot, for some reason. It always says after an attack with a light weapon. Which kinda annoys me. I want to use double flails lol. But they are not light.
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ModeratorAs a reminder the Nick / Two Weapon Fighting / Light/ Dual Wielder Bonus action has already been discussed extensively in multiple threads. There is no need to continue that again in here:
1. Two weapon fighting questions
2.2024 PH Confusion with Light Property and Nick
3. Nick Debate Solved
4. Someone explain Nick
And many more, including already in this thread. As such, that is not going to be a constructive conversation to reopen. Users can read over this thread and the others if they wish and form their own understanding. If there are other topics users wish to discuss or clarify in relation, such as the above post, folk can do so. Just remember to be civil, calm and that you do not need to repeat yourself if someone disagrees.
D&D Beyond ToS || D&D Beyond Support
To be fair, this topic predates many of the others. I think they are all constructive. Plus, it's free content for DNDBeyond ;-)
Last fall, the rules were new. Many didn't understand them, to be expected. Even now, nearly every game I play, someone still manages to get more attacks than allowed-
Sometimes, bonus actions are used twice, once for dual wielder, once for something else. Other times, even the necessary feats and weapon masteries clearly aren't taken, or aren't used with the correct weapons. Shields are used, without careful accounting for weapon switches and draw/stow rules that might allow a shield in some builds. A magic weapon is used for all attacks, without the necessary swaps to a different weapon. Light weapons aren't used when required, for example, ranged weapons without the Light property are used for 4 attacks, also ignoring Reload property. Nick attacks and DW bonus action attacks are taken when the main action was NOT a Light weapon attack. I think many just assume 4 weapon attacks of any type (without action surge) is the 2024 rule for melee characters.
As the OP, I hope more of this information gets out there, so people become familiar with the rules. Yeah, if you build and play it right, it's possible at level 5 for some classes with extra attack, but probably not on every turn, if you have other uses of bonus action.
Stopped playing AD&D in '82, came back to 5e during COVID. Good times.