"Sensory Effect. You create an instantaneous, harmless sensory effect, such as a shower of sparks, a puff of wind, faint musical notes, or an odd odor."
In regards to sound, a harmless sensory effect would be anything that wouldn't hurt someone's ears, correct? I am being told that I am only allowed to use faint sounds with this spell, and I feel like that is a misunderstanding of the spells text. It gives "faint musical notes" as an example of a sound you can make, but it is being read as a hard and fast limitation. I just want to make regular volume sound effects, like a party popper, a door shutting, a knocking noise, ect. That kind of thing. But I am being told that is too powerful for a cantrip, when Thaumaturgy, Druidcraft, and Minor Illusion exist (among others).
Someone please tell me I'm not crazy. lol I am fully respecting my DMs call, and I'll play as he says. But it feels like a harmless utility spell is being nerfed for no reason. Maybe I am in the wrong. I just want to know either way. Thank you in advance for the explanation!
"Sensory Effect. You create an instantaneous, harmless sensory effect, such as a shower of sparks, a puff of wind, faint musical notes, or an odd odor."
In regards to sound, a harmless sensory effect would be anything that wouldn't hurt someone's ears, correct? I am being told that I am only allowed to use faint sounds with this spell, and I feel like that is a misunderstanding of the spells text. It gives "faint musical notes" as an example of a sound you can make, but it is being read as a hard and fast limitation. I just want to make regular volume sound effects, like a party popper, a door shutting, a knocking noise, ect. That kind of thing. But I am being told that is too powerful for a cantrip, when Thaumaturgy, Druidcraft, and Minor Illusion exist (among others).
Someone please tell me I'm not crazy. lol I am fully respecting my DMs call, and I'll play as he says. But it feels like a harmless utility spell is being nerfed for no reason. Maybe I am in the wrong. I just want to know either way. Thank you in advance for the explanation!
Ultimately it's your DM's call, but I would say those are all reasonable uses for Prestidigitation, and the use of the words "such as" in the spell description mean that you're not limited to what's listed there as examples.
when Thaumaturgy, Druidcraft, and Minor Illusion exist (among others).
And they are separate cantrips so should do different things to Prestidigitation otherwise what's the point of having them be two different spells. Prestidigitation cannot do the same things as Minor Illusion, nor of Thaumaturgy, nor Druidcraft.
And they are separate cantrips so should do different things to Prestidigitation otherwise what's the point of having them be two different spells. Prestidigitation cannot do the same things as Minor Illusion, nor of Thaumaturgy, nor Druidcraft.
Of course they can. Sure Minor Illusion is a separate sort of spell but the other three are basically just three different versions of the same thing to give the classes some different flavour (no class has access to more than one on their spell list).
Just reading the sound part of the cantrips makes it quite clear that they are very similar.
Sensory Effect. You create a harmless sensory effect, such as falling leaves, spectral dancing fairies, a gentle breeze, the sound of an animal, or the faint odor of skunk. The effect must fit in a 5-foot Cube.
Phantom Sound. You create an instantaneous sound that originates from a point of your choice within range, such as a rumble of thunder, the cry of a raven, or ominous whispers.
And considering that Minor Illusion can make a sound from a whisper to a scream I don’t think you can say that anything over a faint sound would be OP for a cantrip
Yea and stuff like "rumble of thunder", "cry of a Raven" or "sound of an animal" (which are all mentioned as possibilities) doesn't really sound like they have to be faint sounds either.
They left it to be very subjective, but the descriptions make it sound like each spell is intended to have limitations on how it works. They are not supposed to be exactly the same effect, they are supposed to be variations on the effect.
For example, druidcraft implies the sounds should probably be nature sounds. Thaumaturgy sounds should be spooky/supernatural sounds. Minor illusion is less limited because it's much more focused than the other cantrip - it only has two options. In turn, I think it's reasonable to think that Prestidigitation is more limited because it's such a broad spell that can do so many things. Although I would probably limit the sounds to something justifiably elemental/arcane in nature rather than worry about the volume. But it does seem like "faint musical notes" implies it's not a very loud sound. If not, why add the word "faint" at all?
In all cases, it does seem like illusory sounds aren't supposed to carry very far, based on the way explicitly loud-sounding spells specify the distance at which they can be hard. Minor Illusion's "scream" leaves a lot of room for interpretation though.
Lastly, note that all of these cantrips except Minor Illusion have a vocal component. Vocal components need to be loud enough for creatures in the vicinity to hear for it to matter as a game element at all, so these aren't great spells to make distraction sounds from a hiding place unless you're choosing to ignore that element of the game.
But I am being told that is too powerful for a cantrip, when Thaumaturgy, Druidcraft, and Minor Illusion exist (among others).
That is a bizarre reason. "This effect is too OP for a cantrip because a cantrip can do it"? There is overlap between the cantrips. Both Druidcraft and Prestidigitation can light or snuff out a candle, torch, or small campfire. That's fine. Since Thezzaruz put together a list of Cantrips that potentially overlap in this regard, let's analyze some differences. (The hyperlinks are to the 2014 version, but the quoted text appear to be for the 2024 version. I have added hyperlinks to the 2024 versions for completeness.)
Sure Minor Illusion is a separate sort of spell but the other three are basically just three different versions of the same thing to give the classes some different flavour (no class has access to more than one on their spell list).
Minor Illusion has a lot of defined rules and is an Illusion and lasts 1 minute. It is strong partially because it is not an obvious illusion. Want to hide? Minor Illusion a wall or book case over the door you're behind. If you are being chased past a small (5ft square) hole, Minor Illusion a floor or rug over it (they'll realize it's an illusion after they fall in). It's as strong as the player's creativity.
Sensory Effect. You create a harmless sensory effect, such as falling leaves, spectral dancing fairies, a gentle breeze, the sound of an animal, or the faint odor of skunk. The effect must fit in a 5-foot Cube.
Druidcraft has an instantaneous duration and is a Transmutation spell. This is not creating a sustained sensory effect and the effect is real. It is instant, but the examples are generally things that have a duration. Creating the sound of one leaf falling isn't impressive so I would say they should be able to last up to 6 seconds (1 round), the same as Weather Sensor, otherwise there isn't really enough to garner a reaction. Like Minor Illusion, the effect is restricted to a 5-ft cube.
Sensory Effect. You create an instantaneous, harmless sensory effect, such as a shower of sparks, a puff of wind, faint musical notes, or an odd odor.
Prestidigitation has a 1 hour duration, but the Sensory Effect is instant. Again, we are dealing with Transmutation, not Illusion (even though one of the potential effects is explicitly an Illusion). Interestingly, we are not constrained to a 5-ft cube so we are restricted be the spells range, essentially a 10-ft radius sphere centered on the caster. Like with Druidcraft, the examples don't really work unless we allow them to persist for a round (6 seconds). One of the examples is "faint musical notes", but the only actual mechanical restriction is that it must be harmless and instantaneous (instantaneousish). When making most sensory effects, I assume that they are restricted by the spell's range. No rotten egg smells 11 ft away from you, but what about sound? Can the musical notes be heard outside of the range. Since this is not an illusion, I assume they follow the same behavior and could potentially be amplified with appropriate equipment or acoustically conducive structures (ie, megaphones or megaphone-like structures).
Phantom Sound. You create an instantaneous sound that originates from a point of your choice within range, such as a rumble of thunder, the cry of a raven, or ominous whispers.
Now with Thaumaturgy, again, it's one minute Transmutation spell, but the effect in question is instantaneous and again, that should probably be treated as lasting up to one round. However, like Prestidigitation, we are limited by the spell's range (30 ft this time), but are restricted to sounds only and they must originate from a single point ("a point"). The effect is not constrained by area or range. Technically, the sound doesn't have to be harmless, but with no mechanics to back that up, the only damage the ominous whispers can inflict is emotional.
"Sensory Effect. You create an instantaneous, harmless sensory effect, such as a shower of sparks, a puff of wind, faint musical notes, or an odd odor."
In regards to sound, a harmless sensory effect would be anything that wouldn't hurt someone's ears, correct? I am being told that I am only allowed to use faint sounds with this spell, and I feel like that is a misunderstanding of the spells text. It gives "faint musical notes" as an example of a sound you can make, but it is being read as a hard and fast limitation. I just want to make regular volume sound effects, like a party popper, a door shutting, a knocking noise, ect. That kind of thing. But I am being told that is too powerful for a cantrip, when Thaumaturgy, Druidcraft, and Minor Illusion exist (among others).
Someone please tell me I'm not crazy. lol I am fully respecting my DMs call, and I'll play as he says. But it feels like a harmless utility spell is being nerfed for no reason. Maybe I am in the wrong. I just want to know either way. Thank you in advance for the explanation!
Ultimately it's your DM's call, but I would say those are all reasonable uses for Prestidigitation, and the use of the words "such as" in the spell description mean that you're not limited to what's listed there as examples.
If I was a DM I would read that as only allowing "faint" noises like a whisper or maybe a door closing (but not slamming).
And they are separate cantrips so should do different things to Prestidigitation otherwise what's the point of having them be two different spells. Prestidigitation cannot do the same things as Minor Illusion, nor of Thaumaturgy, nor Druidcraft.
Of course they can. Sure Minor Illusion is a separate sort of spell but the other three are basically just three different versions of the same thing to give the classes some different flavour (no class has access to more than one on their spell list).
Just reading the sound part of the cantrips makes it quite clear that they are very similar.
Druidcraft
Prestidigitation
Thaumaturgy
And considering that Minor Illusion can make a sound from a whisper to a scream I don’t think you can say that anything over a faint sound would be OP for a cantrip
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
Yea and stuff like "rumble of thunder", "cry of a Raven" or "sound of an animal" (which are all mentioned as possibilities) doesn't really sound like they have to be faint sounds either.
Thank you all for your responses! I really appreciate it.
They left it to be very subjective, but the descriptions make it sound like each spell is intended to have limitations on how it works. They are not supposed to be exactly the same effect, they are supposed to be variations on the effect.
For example, druidcraft implies the sounds should probably be nature sounds. Thaumaturgy sounds should be spooky/supernatural sounds. Minor illusion is less limited because it's much more focused than the other cantrip - it only has two options. In turn, I think it's reasonable to think that Prestidigitation is more limited because it's such a broad spell that can do so many things. Although I would probably limit the sounds to something justifiably elemental/arcane in nature rather than worry about the volume. But it does seem like "faint musical notes" implies it's not a very loud sound. If not, why add the word "faint" at all?
In all cases, it does seem like illusory sounds aren't supposed to carry very far, based on the way explicitly loud-sounding spells specify the distance at which they can be hard. Minor Illusion's "scream" leaves a lot of room for interpretation though.
Lastly, note that all of these cantrips except Minor Illusion have a vocal component. Vocal components need to be loud enough for creatures in the vicinity to hear for it to matter as a game element at all, so these aren't great spells to make distraction sounds from a hiding place unless you're choosing to ignore that element of the game.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
That is a bizarre reason. "This effect is too OP for a cantrip because a cantrip can do it"? There is overlap between the cantrips. Both Druidcraft and Prestidigitation can light or snuff out a candle, torch, or small campfire. That's fine. Since Thezzaruz put together a list of Cantrips that potentially overlap in this regard, let's analyze some differences. (The hyperlinks are to the 2014 version, but the quoted text appear to be for the 2024 version. I have added hyperlinks to the 2024 versions for completeness.)
Minor Illusion has a lot of defined rules and is an Illusion and lasts 1 minute. It is strong partially because it is not an obvious illusion. Want to hide? Minor Illusion a wall or book case over the door you're behind. If you are being chased past a small (5ft square) hole, Minor Illusion a floor or rug over it (they'll realize it's an illusion after they fall in). It's as strong as the player's creativity.
Minor Illusion (2024) is basically the same.
Druidcraft has an instantaneous duration and is a Transmutation spell. This is not creating a sustained sensory effect and the effect is real. It is instant, but the examples are generally things that have a duration. Creating the sound of one leaf falling isn't impressive so I would say they should be able to last up to 6 seconds (1 round), the same as Weather Sensor, otherwise there isn't really enough to garner a reaction. Like Minor Illusion, the effect is restricted to a 5-ft cube.
Druidcraft (2024) is the same as 2014.
Prestidigitation has a 1 hour duration, but the Sensory Effect is instant. Again, we are dealing with Transmutation, not Illusion (even though one of the potential effects is explicitly an Illusion). Interestingly, we are not constrained to a 5-ft cube so we are restricted be the spells range, essentially a 10-ft radius sphere centered on the caster. Like with Druidcraft, the examples don't really work unless we allow them to persist for a round (6 seconds). One of the examples is "faint musical notes", but the only actual mechanical restriction is that it must be harmless and instantaneous (instantaneousish). When making most sensory effects, I assume that they are restricted by the spell's range. No rotten egg smells 11 ft away from you, but what about sound? Can the musical notes be heard outside of the range. Since this is not an illusion, I assume they follow the same behavior and could potentially be amplified with appropriate equipment or acoustically conducive structures (ie, megaphones or megaphone-like structures).
Prestidigitation (2024) is basically the same.
Now with Thaumaturgy, again, it's one minute Transmutation spell, but the effect in question is instantaneous and again, that should probably be treated as lasting up to one round. However, like Prestidigitation, we are limited by the spell's range (30 ft this time), but are restricted to sounds only and they must originate from a single point ("a point"). The effect is not constrained by area or range. Technically, the sound doesn't have to be harmless, but with no mechanics to back that up, the only damage the ominous whispers can inflict is emotional.
Thaumaturgy (2024) is effectively the same for this effect.