ok so I'm playing a barbarian who's just drawn from a deck of many things. As you might have guessed from the title I drew the moon card. To what extent would all you dungeon masters allow me to go with a wish spell... 

permanent 30 str?

other magic items like the luck blade or a second deck?

...fabulous hair?

also a question to all you players, what would be good things to wish for as a barbarian?

Wish is one of those things that always has hidden costs. 30 STR? Sure... for every point up, DEX or CON would go down. Another deck? Sure... with all the good cards missing/already pulled. Luck Blade? Sure... it's already been used up, but still a nice blade. 

I'd probably limit stat boost to +2 (like with a [Tooltip Not Found]) per wish.

No wishing for more wishes. Very rare and lower magic items I might give freely, wishing for a legendary item will probably have unforseen consequences (artifacts will fail, might give a hint to location instead).

If you wished for fabulous hair, I would homebrew some kind of CHA bonus with it.

As a player, free feats or ASIs that break limit are both coveted.

Quote from Kotath >>

There is a hard limit of 25,000 value. That would likely rule out stat pluses (since even a +1 book would be valued likely higher than that), at least without some trade off to compensate.  

 That hard limit specifies non-magic items and only applies to guaranteed effects of the spell. Anything beyond that is DM discretion.

Also, a manual of gainful exorcise would probably be worth around 25k, especially if you consider "one use per century" as consumable. But also since it is a wish for 1 use anyway, it is comparable to being a consumable very rare item, which are valued at 25k.

So a +2 with no downside is completely reasonable for wish.

Quote from Kotath >>

Quote from DxJxC >>

Quote from Kotath >>

There is a hard limit of 25,000 value. That would likely rule out stat pluses (since even a +1 book would be valued likely higher than that), at least without some trade off to compensate.  

 That hard limit specifies non-magic items and only applies to guaranteed effects of the spell. Anything beyond that is DM discretion.

Also, a manual of gainful exorcise would probably be worth around 25k, especially if you consider "one use per century" as consumable. But also since it is a wish for 1 use anyway, it is comparable to being a consumable very rare item, which are valued at 25k.

So a +2 with no downside is completely reasonable for wish.

It may be consumable, but  such a book gives a permanent, non-dispel-able effect and moreover in a game where stats are major modifiers.

You seem to also miss that it also states 'that isn't a magic item.'

So no, not reasonable at all.

 I didn't miss that, it was literally my first sentence...

And either way, any effect other than what is listed is DM discretion (second sentence). So, I would allow it and you wouldn't, and neither is in the wrong.

"The DM may allow other things" is actually redundant, since that is true of everything in the game. 

But it is especially relevant for Wish, which has an entire paragraph outlining how those other things should work. Taken together with the historical context of Wish in D&D, the specific outcomes listed come across as simply a list of the possible things you can without an expectation of negative consequences.

If you wish for reasonable things, you get reasonable things.  If you wish for excessive things, you get the letter of the wish, not the intent (as Sigvard described).

Strength +2 is reasonable.  Strength +10 is not.   Fabulous hair is totally reasonable - I'd even give you the +2 Charisma as part of it.

The Wish spell allows certain things without hidden costs or monkey's paw twists, namely the replication of any 8th level or lower spell and a small list of other effects. It's only when asking for reality warping effect outside of those that Wish is supposed to be twisted against the caster. My suggestions would be to replicate Clone, or Find Greater Steed for something semi-permanent or long lasting.

You should talk to your DM about this, not us!

Using "Wish" for it's "literally anything can happen" option is completely up to the DM. There's some DMs that will basically treat just making a wish as an option to screw over your character. There's others that will get annoyed if you try to spring something crazy on them, but will be nice if you ask for something reasonable.

Here's how I'd probably respond to these:

permanent 30 str?

You get magical knowledge of the location of a Belt of Giant Strength! (It's inside some dungeon that you'll have to fight through)

other magic items like the luck blade or a second deck?

No on these - these both sound like "Wish for more wishes" to me, and that's not ok.

...fabulous hair?

Sure, happy to let people reflavor cosmetic things however they want. I'm ok with this being a one-time minor CHA boost as well, as long as the person doesn't have a chance to do a bunch of wishes.

Quote from Kotath >>

Quote from Mog_Dracov >>

If you wish for reasonable things, you get reasonable things.  If you wish for excessive things, you get the letter of the wish, not the intent (as Sigvard described).

Strength +2 is reasonable.  Strength +10 is not.   Fabulous hair is totally reasonable - I'd even give you the +2 Charisma as part of it.

 

 

 

+2 to a stat is a rather big modifier in this edition... even in prior editions, a wish would not give +2

 
We have different experiences, while higher bonuses are more effective, they are less important in this edition. You could stick with +3 even into Level 20, and still be effective.

Granting a 30 strength isn't a big deal, since there are magic items that literally set your strength to 29.

A +2 bonus to a score, is a +1 in ability mod. Useful, but that big of a deal.

Especially given that a wish like this causes significant drawbacks that lasts days.

--

People keep thinking wish as a "no!" "game-breaking" "too powerful" type of thing. It's not. It's a DM's best friend. It can be an instant story hook you don't have to work for.

Strength of 30? Granted. Your strength is known and challengers from all over come to face you to prove you're lying or to test their own strength against yours or prove they're stronger.

Wish the bad guy dead. Fine. But there are more adventures with more bad guys. Bad guys who can also use wish.

Wish for flight? Granted, you grow a large pair of gleaming angelic wings. People see you flying majestically through the air and think you're some sort of celestial. Including the local evil necromancer who would just love to take your soul to earn great favour with their fiendish lords - celestial souls are highly prized in Hell.

-

Think less about "how do I nerf/avoid this" or "how can I turn this against them" and more like "how could I make a new adventure out of this?"

Quote from Kotath >>

Quote from Cyb3rM1nd >>

Think less about "how do I nerf/avoid this" or "how can I turn this against them" and more like "how could I make a new adventure out of this?"

 

Well now you are going the other way.... declaring it a useless spell because you will adjust the balance so they will actually gain nothing. That is quite the 'gotcha' side effect... wish yourself to straight 30's and suddenly everyone else in the universe of any importance has done the same.... 

 
You have read my post incorrectly. I have said nothing to this effect.

Strength of 30 is a big deal, your argument sucks.

First, the best magic Item I know of grants a Strength of 29.  And items have weakenesses: take attunement slots, can be stolen, do not work in anti-magic, etc. etc. 

Also there is a difference between wishing for a 30 strength when your current strength is 20, and doing the same when your current strength is 10.

Finally, the spell has clear limitations:   25,000 gp that isn't a magic item.  In other words, the wish can NOT be used to wish to get a magic item that grants you a strength of 30.  

So you are asking for something that is clearly better than what the wish can do.   a) Wishing for something that is better than a legendary item  b)  when you are not allowed to wish for a magic item at all, c )  let alone worth at least 4x the value of what the spell can do, IF such an item did exist. and d) without the limitations of said item.

If someone asked for a Strength of 30, I would teleport them to the bedside of someone asleep with a Belt of Storm Giant Strength on the chair beside them.

There is no "not allowed" when it comes to wish as defined allowances go.

Wish can be used in 3 ways:

1. Replicate spells of 8th level and lower. No drawbacks, no DM adjudication necessary.
2. Listed examples (like the 25k gp mundane item). Has the drawbacks but no DM adjudication necessary beyond the examples - very straightforward.
3. Absolutely anything else you can imagine. Has drawbacks, relies on DM adjudication.

Wishing for strength 30 or a legendary magic item, etc, are all under number 3. They are allowed in the power of the wish, but it is up the DM to decide how it plays out.

Whether or how you get it is entirely up to the DM's personal decision, and there is no right or wrong way. A DM may allow it, a DM may not, a DM might but with a catch, or they might but twist the wish somehow. All valid choices for the DM to make.

Quote from Kotath >>

Quote from Cyb3rM1nd >>

Quote from Kotath >>

Quote from Cyb3rM1nd >>

Think less about "how do I nerf/avoid this" or "how can I turn this against them" and more like "how could I make a new adventure out of this?"

 

Well now you are going the other way.... declaring it a useless spell because you will adjust the balance so they will actually gain nothing. That is quite the 'gotcha' side effect... wish yourself to straight 30's and suddenly everyone else in the universe of any importance has done the same.... 

 
You have read my post incorrectly. I have said nothing to this effect.

 

People come from all around to challenge you to tests of strength. Either you almost always win, or there are a lot of people coming who are of similar strength to you available to come to challenge you. 

Bad guy is dead... but there are more bad guys... and they can wish too (and presumably wish you dead). Not a 'gotcha?'

Flight = grow angel wings and now have archdevils as enemies.....  

 
They're not gotchas, just new possible adventures. No more a gotcha than anything else the party faces in D&D (yes, there are enemies with Wish, although personally I would not use it to wish a pc dead, I'd mostly rely on the spell replication to create interesting scenarios and traps for them). It's no more a gotcha than "rewarding" players for finishing adventures, defeating bad guys and leveling up with more adventures, bad guys and stronger enemies.

My point was that DMs should not fear the players using wish, but try to see how it might open adventures if you want it to.

As a GM, I'd be happy with::

I wish I was immune to poison!
I wish I could see in the dark!
I wish I was stronger!
I wish I was rich!
I wish I could fly!

My personal rule with wishes is: the more commas are in your wish, the more likely I am to be a dick. Be simple. Be short. Don't take the mickey.

Also, "I wish for 3 wishes!" will always result in your character being disintegrated. :-)

Short = giving total control to DM and praying the DM is not a dick, of course you like that.    Also, I think the game should be role-played, which means a low Int character should keep the wishes that simple.  But a high int wizard should put in clauses like "I wish my intelligence was upgraded so that I will be sufficiently smart to prepare one additional spell tomorrow morning."

I do have rules about wish grammer, the main one is  - no "and".  Otherwise people try "I wish i was stronger and faster and smarter and wiser and richer and I could fly and see in the dark and am immune to poison and ..."

That is clearly abusive.  

Quote from Mog_Dracov >>

That is clearly abusive.  

Agreed. A better way to phrase my attitude is, "Look, if you don't take the mickey then neither will I."

Your point about a high INT character is a good one. I'd just warn the player that "your wizard may have 18 INT, but I certainly don't and I'm the one who has to parse this mess of legal clauses you just gave me." :-)

I also think that Cyb3rM1nd's comment, "how could I make a new adventure out of this?" is gold. I'm taking that to heart.

New adventure is almost always a good idea.