I've never valued Battlerager very high, because usually its better to build a grappler wearing plate as a fighter, grapplers have other uses of their bonus action that they often prefer, and usually you aren't actually "using the Attack action to grapple" but rather a Bonus Action from Tavern Brawler, Grappling Strike, or another feature like the Simic's tentacles. Playing around with a Simic Grappler, I think that Rune Knight is probably a better way to find advantage on strength checks than a Barbarian's rage is... but I will hand it to the Battlerager, the ability to wield a weapon that doesn't require a hand might be its one (small) point in its favor.
I do hope the Battlerager gets reprinted at some point (like the Bladesinger) with a few improvements made to its kit. I do think it could still work well as part of a grappler build. Im gonna try and run some numbers here really quick, and compare two possible builds, each with one feat with the non-paladin class at level 12
Option A: Not a battlerager, uses Tavern Brawler feat
On a turn you want to grapple, you would presumably take the attack action and then make a grapple as a bonus action. The only issue is you have to make an unarmed strike (or use an improvised weapon) to perform this bonus action. Assuming two attacks per attack action, it would be: Weapon Attack + Unarmed Strike + Bonus Action grapple. Assuming you use a one-handed weapon to leave one hand open for grappling, we are looking at 1d8+Str+1d4+Str damage, followed by a grapple (with a 20 Str I think that averages out to 17 damage)
The ideal case would be your Rune Knight with the Unarmed Fighting fighting style. At level 12, you have three attacks so it would become: (1d8 + Str) x 3 followed by a grapple which deals 1d4 damage from the fighting style. If I did my math correctly that is 31 damage. Pretty good!
Option B: Battlerager, uses Fighting Initiate feat for Unarmed Fighting
For this one, it would be Weapon Attack + Grapple + Bonus Action Spike Attack. Using the same weapon as for the fighter, that is 1d8+Str+1d4+Str along with 1d4+3 damage dealt by the spiked grapple with unarmed fighting. So that averages out to around 22.5 damage. If you are raging, then you also get your rage bonus. So if we are using a level 12 Battlerager, that would be an additional 6 damage (for the weapon attack and spike attack), bringing the total to 28.5 damage.
Overall, I think you are right that the Rune Knight is the top choice for this build, especially since it gets that extra attack at level 11 (so this is probably true for most Fighters, but others dont get the advantage on Athletics). While I am not sure the Battlerager is the best Barb subclass for it, I do think it would beat out other multiclass options besides fighter.
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Your expertise goes into Athletics. Stat Priority is Wis>Dex>Con. Activating your Astral arms is a bonus action and requires a Ki point, and activating your glowing star dragon form is also a bonus action, but since both last 10 minutes and you don't always need both, this clunkiness isn't the end of the world.
While you do have both active, however... you're a glowing star constellation spirit-like thing. And, mechanically... you now use Wisdom for grapple checks, and any wisdom check d20 is a minimum 10 plus your modifier, and you have expertise in wisdom-athletics checks, and can continue attacking (at reach 10ft) even while grappling several targets.
Is it super powerful? Eh, not especially. But it does add some decent battlefield control options, and has some great versatility, since you could always opt to using other star forms and you still have normal wildshapes too. Plus spells, of course. Neat options would be Elven Accuracy if you like shoving grappled targets prone, since you could triple advantage them after that. Fighting Style - Unarmed Fighting isn't half bad because you'd be grappling often and your martial arts die is slowed from the multiclassing. But just boosting wisdom (then dex) is great too.
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I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
I'm running a Wildhunt Shifter now whose level 20 endgame is 12 hunter ranger / 2 stars druid / 6 echo knight fighter. Currently is at 8/2/1. With high stats except 2 that were dropped on purpose for characterization and flavor reasons (in exchange for a feat), he's got Mobile, Sentinel, Great Weapon Master, uses a glaive and/or longbow, archery fighting style from ranger and GWM fighting style from fighter. Currently sitting at 45ft movement per turn non-hasted non-action-dash (30ft base, mobile +10, vind rune armor +5), (also has +5 ft in current part of the storyline due to a feywild effect, and has a custom homebrew item that gave him +10ft that I just unattuned to in order to attune to an OP homebrew weapon I was given; he was at 60ft base movement...). Using both some UA options and some Optional Features options gives him a climb and swim speed as well as extra languages and one expertise (should have been perception but did animal handling for the luls).
Purpose of stars druid is mostly flavor but also for a couple cantrips and spells.
Yeah, this DM gives us some OP stuff at our level, but it's super duper fun.
I do hope the Battlerager gets reprinted at some point (like the Bladesinger) with a few improvements made to its kit.
My quick fix is that a grapple made with spiked armor does 1d4+STR damage, and when you rage you can grapple with your bonus action. Same damage, way more grapple-y.
Then add something to help against huge+ creatures at high levels - I prefer to use a variation on the "climb onto a larger creature" rule for a battlerager's grapple to get that cinematic image of a dwarf hanging on to a dragon's foot as it flies around.
But I wouldn't hold my breath for WotC to make any changes that major.
Indeed, you are correct. Mark of Warding Dwarf Abjurer is a cornerstone and any Warlock would work.
The main thing for Hexblade is armor proficiency and Hexblade Curse. Wizards are largely known for not perform well against single targets, Hexblade Curse paired with Magic Missile, Scorching Ray and Melf’s Minute Meteor covers this gap.
I one cool combo I do is Ranger (doesn't matter what type) and the Haunted One background works great! Even better if you are multi classing as a paladin!
So basically Vex from Critical Role. Liam, is that you? :P
I one cool combo I do is Ranger (doesn't matter what type) and the Haunted One background works great! Even better if you are multi classing as a paladin!
So basically Vex from Critical Role. Liam, is that you? :P
I'm pretty sure her background was Outlander, not Haunted One. (Vex is Laura's character). She was the Ranger (Beast Master) and eventually MC'd to Rogue (Assassin).
And Vax, who was played by Liam, had the Criminal background (be briefly worked for the Clasp, mostly to save his sister). He was a Rogue (Assassin) who eventually MC'd to Paladin (Oath of Vengeance) and to Druid (no subclass). The whole 'sad boi' stuff came later in game around the time Vex died and be became champion to Raven Queen. He was sad a lot as he was working through grief, using the game for therapy - Liam's mother was sick and passed away at that time.
So, no, nothing like Vex or Vax.
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Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond. Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ thisFAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
I one cool combo I do is Ranger (doesn't matter what type) and the Haunted One background works great! Even better if you are multi classing as a paladin!
So basically Vex from Critical Role. Liam, is that you? :P
I'm pretty sure her background was Outlander, not Haunted One. (Vex is Laura's character). She was the Ranger (Beast Master) and eventually MC'd to Rogue (Assassin).
And Vax, who was played by Liam, had the Criminal background (be briefly worked for the Clasp, mostly to save his sister). He was a Rogue (Assassin) who eventually MC'd to Paladin (Oath of Vengeance) and to Druid (no subclass). The whole 'sad boi' stuff came later in game around the time Vex died and be became champion to Raven Queen. He was sad a lot as he was working through grief, using the game for therapy - Liam's mother was sick and passed away at that time.
I one cool combo I do is Ranger (doesn't matter what type) and the Haunted One background works great! Even better if you are multi classing as a paladin!
So basically Vex from Critical Role. Liam, is that you? :P
I'm pretty sure her background was Outlander, not Haunted One. (Vex is Laura's character). She was the Ranger (Beast Master) and eventually MC'd to Rogue (Assassin).
And Vax, who was played by Liam, had the Criminal background (be briefly worked for the Clasp, mostly to save his sister). He was a Rogue (Assassin) who eventually MC'd to Paladin (Oath of Vengeance) and to Druid (no subclass). The whole 'sad boi' stuff came later in game around the time Vex died and be became champion to Raven Queen. He was sad a lot as he was working through grief, using the game for therapy - Liam's mother was sick and passed away at that time.
So, no, nothing like Vex or Vax.
Way to miss the point... XD
Maybe if your point made sense it wouldn't be so easy to miss.
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Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond. Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ thisFAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
Mark of Sentinel Human, Inquisitive Rouge 4+/Arcane Archer Fighter 5. Dex-Wis-Con-Int-Cha-Str Assuming 18 Dex and 16 Wis, with expertise in insight, You average 23 Insight (10+11+2) and do 14 at minimum (1+11+2). This means that with 2 attacks, if both hit you do 1d8+2d6+2d6+4 on attack 1, then 1d8+2d6+4 for attack 2. Add 2 Ranger for Hunter’s Mark or the Fey Touched feat to do an extra 1d6. We’re looking at 24 and 18 on average, for a total of 42. You win as you do damage equal to the life, universe, and everything. But actually, at 20 with Fighter (Arcane Archer) 11/ Rouge (Inquisitive) 9 or Fighter (Arcane Archer) 11/ Rouge (Inquisitive) 6/ Ranger (Hunter) 3. So we’re looking (with 20 dex) 1d8+5d6+2d6+5 and 1d8+2d6+5 and 1d8+5, so 35 and 19 and 9 with combo 1. With combo 2, 1d8+3d6+2d6+1d6+5, then 1d8+2d6+1d6+1d8+5, then 1d8+1d6+1d8+5. This is 30 then 24, then 17. These are assuming all hit, and not factoring sharpshooter. Combo 1 does 63, and Combo 2 does 71. +30 from sharpshooter on each if you do sharpshooter. With +3 bow and +3 arrows, you can add +18 to each. Finnally, Bracers of archery add +6 to each. Total for this is 117 for combo 1 and 125 on combo 2. On average. This also makes a build that your DM won’t ban for overpowering, as you only get the extra 2d6 from arcane archer twice, it makes thematic sense (kinda) and can give you interesting ideas for your backstory. Maybe you were a mercenary (See Kallas [Season 4 and 6 of The Tabletop Champions] for a similar build) that was a sniper, and you were good enough your companions suggested you become and adventurer, especially because of your rare gift of magic.
Helper of Create a World thread/Sedge is Chaotic Neutral/ Mega Yahtzee High: 34, Low: 14/I speak English, je me parle le Francais, agus Labhraim beagan Gaeilge
I do hope the Battlerager gets reprinted at some point (like the Bladesinger) with a few improvements made to its kit. I do think it could still work well as part of a grappler build. Im gonna try and run some numbers here really quick, and compare two possible builds, each with one feat with the non-paladin class at level 12
Option A: Not a battlerager, uses Tavern Brawler feat
On a turn you want to grapple, you would presumably take the attack action and then make a grapple as a bonus action. The only issue is you have to make an unarmed strike (or use an improvised weapon) to perform this bonus action. Assuming two attacks per attack action, it would be: Weapon Attack + Unarmed Strike + Bonus Action grapple. Assuming you use a one-handed weapon to leave one hand open for grappling, we are looking at 1d8+Str+1d4+Str damage, followed by a grapple (with a 20 Str I think that averages out to 17 damage)
The ideal case would be your Rune Knight with the Unarmed Fighting fighting style. At level 12, you have three attacks so it would become: (1d8 + Str) x 3 followed by a grapple which deals 1d4 damage from the fighting style. If I did my math correctly that is 31 damage. Pretty good!
Option B: Battlerager, uses Fighting Initiate feat for Unarmed Fighting
For this one, it would be Weapon Attack + Grapple + Bonus Action Spike Attack. Using the same weapon as for the fighter, that is 1d8+Str+1d4+Str along with 1d4+3 damage dealt by the spiked grapple with unarmed fighting. So that averages out to around 22.5 damage. If you are raging, then you also get your rage bonus. So if we are using a level 12 Battlerager, that would be an additional 6 damage (for the weapon attack and spike attack), bringing the total to 28.5 damage.
Overall, I think you are right that the Rune Knight is the top choice for this build, especially since it gets that extra attack at level 11 (so this is probably true for most Fighters, but others dont get the advantage on Athletics). While I am not sure the Battlerager is the best Barb subclass for it, I do think it would beat out other multiclass options besides fighter.
Four-time Judge of the Competition of the Finest Brews! Come join us in making fun, unique homebrew and voting for your favorite entries!
The Dragon Spirit
Aereni Wood Elf Astral Monk 3+/Stars Druid 2+
Your expertise goes into Athletics. Stat Priority is Wis>Dex>Con. Activating your Astral arms is a bonus action and requires a Ki point, and activating your glowing star dragon form is also a bonus action, but since both last 10 minutes and you don't always need both, this clunkiness isn't the end of the world.
While you do have both active, however... you're a glowing star constellation spirit-like thing. And, mechanically... you now use Wisdom for grapple checks, and any wisdom check d20 is a minimum 10 plus your modifier, and you have expertise in wisdom-athletics checks, and can continue attacking (at reach 10ft) even while grappling several targets.
Is it super powerful? Eh, not especially. But it does add some decent battlefield control options, and has some great versatility, since you could always opt to using other star forms and you still have normal wildshapes too. Plus spells, of course. Neat options would be Elven Accuracy if you like shoving grappled targets prone, since you could triple advantage them after that. Fighting Style - Unarmed Fighting isn't half bad because you'd be grappling often and your martial arts die is slowed from the multiclassing. But just boosting wisdom (then dex) is great too.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
I'm running a Wildhunt Shifter now whose level 20 endgame is 12 hunter ranger / 2 stars druid / 6 echo knight fighter. Currently is at 8/2/1. With high stats except 2 that were dropped on purpose for characterization and flavor reasons (in exchange for a feat), he's got Mobile, Sentinel, Great Weapon Master, uses a glaive and/or longbow, archery fighting style from ranger and GWM fighting style from fighter. Currently sitting at 45ft movement per turn non-hasted non-action-dash (30ft base, mobile +10, vind rune armor +5), (also has +5 ft in current part of the storyline due to a feywild effect, and has a custom homebrew item that gave him +10ft that I just unattuned to in order to attune to an OP homebrew weapon I was given; he was at 60ft base movement...). Using both some UA options and some Optional Features options gives him a climb and swim speed as well as extra languages and one expertise (should have been perception but did animal handling for the luls).
Purpose of stars druid is mostly flavor but also for a couple cantrips and spells.
Yeah, this DM gives us some OP stuff at our level, but it's super duper fun.
My quick fix is that a grapple made with spiked armor does 1d4+STR damage, and when you rage you can grapple with your bonus action. Same damage, way more grapple-y.
Then add something to help against huge+ creatures at high levels - I prefer to use a variation on the "climb onto a larger creature" rule for a battlerager's grapple to get that cinematic image of a dwarf hanging on to a dragon's foot as it flies around.
But I wouldn't hold my breath for WotC to make any changes that major.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
Indeed, you are correct. Mark of Warding Dwarf Abjurer is a cornerstone and any Warlock would work.
The main thing for Hexblade is armor proficiency and Hexblade Curse. Wizards are largely known for not perform well against single targets, Hexblade Curse paired with Magic Missile, Scorching Ray and Melf’s Minute Meteor covers this gap.
So basically Vex from Critical Role. Liam, is that you? :P
I'm pretty sure her background was Outlander, not Haunted One. (Vex is Laura's character). She was the Ranger (Beast Master) and eventually MC'd to Rogue (Assassin).
And Vax, who was played by Liam, had the Criminal background (be briefly worked for the Clasp, mostly to save his sister). He was a Rogue (Assassin) who eventually MC'd to Paladin (Oath of Vengeance) and to Druid (no subclass). The whole 'sad boi' stuff came later in game around the time Vex died and be became champion to Raven Queen. He was sad a lot as he was working through grief, using the game for therapy - Liam's mother was sick and passed away at that time.
So, no, nothing like Vex or Vax.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
Way to miss the point... XD
Maybe if your point made sense it wouldn't be so easy to miss.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
Mark of Sentinel Human, Inquisitive Rouge 4+/Arcane Archer Fighter 5. Dex-Wis-Con-Int-Cha-Str Assuming 18 Dex and 16 Wis, with expertise in insight, You average 23 Insight (10+11+2) and do 14 at minimum (1+11+2). This means that with 2 attacks, if both hit you do 1d8+2d6+2d6+4 on attack 1, then 1d8+2d6+4 for attack 2. Add 2 Ranger for Hunter’s Mark or the Fey Touched feat to do an extra 1d6. We’re looking at 24 and 18 on average, for a total of 42. You win as you do damage equal to the life, universe, and everything. But actually, at 20 with Fighter (Arcane Archer) 11/ Rouge (Inquisitive) 9 or Fighter (Arcane Archer) 11/ Rouge (Inquisitive) 6/ Ranger (Hunter) 3. So we’re looking (with 20 dex) 1d8+5d6+2d6+5 and 1d8+2d6+5 and 1d8+5, so 35 and 19 and 9 with combo 1. With combo 2, 1d8+3d6+2d6+1d6+5, then 1d8+2d6+1d6+1d8+5, then 1d8+1d6+1d8+5. This is 30 then 24, then 17. These are assuming all hit, and not factoring sharpshooter. Combo 1 does 63, and Combo 2 does 71. +30 from sharpshooter on each if you do sharpshooter. With +3 bow and +3 arrows, you can add +18 to each. Finnally, Bracers of archery add +6 to each. Total for this is 117 for combo 1 and 125 on combo 2. On average. This also makes a build that your DM won’t ban for overpowering, as you only get the extra 2d6 from arcane archer twice, it makes thematic sense (kinda) and can give you interesting ideas for your backstory. Maybe you were a mercenary (See Kallas [Season 4 and 6 of The Tabletop Champions] for a similar build) that was a sniper, and you were good enough your companions suggested you become and adventurer, especially because of your rare gift of magic.
Helper of Create a World thread/Sedge is Chaotic Neutral/ Mega Yahtzee High: 34, Low: 14/I speak English, je me parle le Francais, agus Labhraim beagan Gaeilge
Dream of Days Lore Bard 9/Wizard 4 Baulder's Gate: Descent to Avernus (In Person/Over Zoom)
Saleadon Morgul Battle Smith Artificer 11 Tyranny of Dragons (In Person/Over Zoom)
Hurtharn Serpti Ghostslayer Blood Hunter 7 Spelljammer (Over Zoom)
Ex Sig