But to be fair to the Champion sub-class, you would also have to show calculations where both have advantage. So adding the average of an extra 5% is wrong when calculating average damage output for situations with advantage. It should be 19% - 9.75%? At the very least this would show how a Champion performs played by a player that isn't min-maxing and doesn't know enough about feats and such to take advantage of the class that much.
You mean you would need to show the numbers for parameters that include advantage, as well as not having advantage? Cool. I've done that. And I've also included numbers with feats.
Feats can definitely improve the numbers with Improved Critical, but they still don't amount to great numbers. And a subclass ability should not have rely on very specific builds to be effective.
I'm sorry if you did. I want to see those posts of yours, but there are so many pages and I wasn't able to keep up with the thread over the weekend. I just skimmed this morning. Please link the post so I can see this math of yours.
I'll just do one right now. Parameters: Level 5 Fighter, 18 STR (+4 damage, +7 to hit) Greatsword, Enemy 16 AC, With Advantage
Greatword average damage: 7
Percent Chance to hit: 84
ASI Damage: +4
Normal Chance to Crit: 9.75%
Champion Chance to Crit; 19% (a 9.25 percent increase)
Average Damage Per Hit: (7 + 4) = 11
Average Crit Damage: 7
11 x 0.84 = 9.24 Average Damage Per Attack (without crit damage)
Now add Crit Damage
Normal: 9.24 + (7 x .0925) = 7.6475
Champion: 9.24 + (7 x .19) = 8.33
With advantage (a much more ideal circumstance) in these parameters: Chamption adds 8.9% more damage per attack. It's the mathematical equivalence of changing 10 damage to 10.89 damage.
TWF Champion (4 attacks + bonus action offhand), with 18-20 Crit threat range, all 1d6 weapons, with Elven Accuracy:
VS a 2d6 weapon with 4 attacks, with a 20 crit threat range:
Seems pretty telling to me.
Yeah....Champ is not very powerful overall. Its fine as it doesn't lag super hard but its main sthick is suppose to be pure damage as it offers vastly less versaility than the other subclasses. The sad reality is that in the most average of settings it will be underperforming Battlemaster for damage while battlemaster has several options for increased versatility OR it can go full on damage mode.
This is why Brute was actually a better option for a "simple" fighter. It had straight up damage boost and had some other unique features that made it hard to kill which at least put it in a different light than the other fighters.
TWF Champion (4 attacks + bonus action offhand), with 18-20 Crit threat range, all 1d6 weapons, with Elven Accuracy:
VS a 2d6 weapon with 4 attacks, with a 20 crit threat range:
Seems pretty telling to me.
EDIT: Note, I don't know where on that sheet to add mod damage to the bonus off hand attack that you get for picking the 2 weapon fighting style. So I think the Champion damage should increase slightly.
Did you choose this because a Level 15 Camption Fighter (which uses Superior Critical, not Improved Critical) Elf (or Half elf) with Elven Accuracy (which doesn't apply to Strength Attacks) is a common parameter players will experience?
Is your argument, "Improved Critical is good because IF you choose to make Elf Dex Build - AND you pick up the Elven Accuracy Feat AND you get all the way up to Level 15 so you can replace Improved Critical with Superior Critical AND you happen to be attacking with advantage..... "?
Also, what was behind your conscious choice to give the Champion Elvin Accuracy, but NOT the non-Chamption?
What? The champion is the top graph. The plain fighter (no feats, just swinging a greatsword) is the bottom graph.
The plain fighter does more damage to low AC opponents. The Champion does more damage to high AC opponents. By a lot.
Note: I goofed and didn't switch the offhand to be 1d6. Those graphs show damage from a 1d8 offhand. But, the offhand has no way to add the MOD bonus for Two Weapon fighting style.
What? The champion is the top graph. The plain fighter (no feats, just swinging a greatsword) is the bottom graph.
The plain fighter does more damage to low AC opponents. The Champion does more damage to high AC opponents. By a lot.
What attack bonus did you put into the calculator? It looks like you're assuming a +5 attack bonus for a 20th level fighter, not a more typical +14 (20 str/dex, +6 proficiency, +3 weapon). But yes, a Champion does more damage than an unsubclassed fighter.
But to be fair to the Champion sub-class, you would also have to show calculations where both have advantage. So adding the average of an extra 5% is wrong when calculating average damage output for situations with advantage. It should be 19% - 9.75%? At the very least this would show how a Champion performs played by a player that isn't min-maxing and doesn't know enough about feats and such to take advantage of the class that much.
You mean you would need to show the numbers for parameters that include advantage, as well as not having advantage? Cool. I've done that. And I've also included numbers with feats.
Feats can definitely improve the numbers with Improved Critical, but they still don't amount to great numbers. And a subclass ability should not have rely on very specific builds to be effective.
I'm sorry if you did. I want to see those posts of yours, but there are so many pages and I wasn't able to keep up with the thread over the weekend. I just skimmed this morning. Please link the post so I can see this math of yours.
I'll just do one right now. Parameters: Level 5 Fighter, 18 STR (+4 damage, +7 to hit) Greatsword, Enemy 16 AC, With Advantage
Greatword average damage: 7
Percent Chance to hit: 84
ASI Damage: +4
Normal Chance to Crit: 9.75%
Champion Chance to Crit; 19% (a 9.25 percent increase)
Average Damage Per Hit: (7 + 4) = 11
Average Crit Damage: 7
11 x 0.84 = 9.24 Average Damage Per Attack (without crit damage)
Now add Crit Damage
Normal: 9.24 + (7 x .0925) = 7.6475
Champion: 9.24 + (7 x .19) = 8.33
With advantage (a much more ideal circumstance) in these parameters: Chamption adds 8.9% more damage per attack. It's the mathematical equivalence of changing 10 damage to 10.89 damage.
Simplify your parameters and get rid of anything that should be equal between the two sub-classes you are comparing. Instead of assuming a 50% hit rate, assume a 100% hit rate. This simplifies the math, and you still compare equivalent damage output between the two subclasses. IE: get rid of To-Hit bonus, damage mod and enemy AC.
What? The champion is the top graph. The plain fighter (no feats, just swinging a greatsword) is the bottom graph.
The plain fighter does more damage to low AC opponents. The Champion does more damage to high AC opponents. By a lot.
Note: I goofed and didn't switch the offhand to be 1d6. Those graphs show damage from a 1d8 offhand. But, the offhand has no way to add the MOD bonus for Two Weapon fighting style.
Are you reading the graph right?
For normal swings at AC 20 for the Champ is 13.125 and 14.6 for generic fighter. Are you assuming you have ADV literally all the time? How are you generating this with Champ? Battlemaster has a better time generating ADV with Trip Attack vs. Champ who would have to give up an attack to trip which lowers their DPR as they are forgoing an attack.
Also funny how you are allowing a feat for the champ but forgoing for the battlemaster and the numbers still favor a Battlemaster lol.
Also you should compare to the REAL damage option: Sharpshooter + CBE Battlemaster using precision die:
What? The champion is the top graph. The plain fighter (no feats, just swinging a greatsword) is the bottom graph.
The plain fighter does more damage to low AC opponents. The Champion does more damage to high AC opponents. By a lot.
Note: I goofed and didn't switch the offhand to be 1d6. Those graphs show damage from a 1d8 offhand. But, the offhand has no way to add the MOD bonus for Two Weapon fighting style.
A few things here.
1. In your opinion is giving the Chamption double advantage with Elvin Accuracy, but not the regular Fighter fair or unfair?
2. In your opinion, does a Level 15 Elvin Champion Dex build with Elven Accuracy Feat represent a common parameter most players will experience, or is it an extreme anomaly?
3. How does *replacing* Improved Critical with Superior Critical make the case that Improved Critical is worthwhile?
But to be fair to the Champion sub-class, you would also have to show calculations where both have advantage. So adding the average of an extra 5% is wrong when calculating average damage output for situations with advantage. It should be 19% - 9.75%? At the very least this would show how a Champion performs played by a player that isn't min-maxing and doesn't know enough about feats and such to take advantage of the class that much.
You mean you would need to show the numbers for parameters that include advantage, as well as not having advantage? Cool. I've done that. And I've also included numbers with feats.
Feats can definitely improve the numbers with Improved Critical, but they still don't amount to great numbers. And a subclass ability should not have rely on very specific builds to be effective.
I'm sorry if you did. I want to see those posts of yours, but there are so many pages and I wasn't able to keep up with the thread over the weekend. I just skimmed this morning. Please link the post so I can see this math of yours.
I'll just do one right now. Parameters: Level 5 Fighter, 18 STR (+4 damage, +7 to hit) Greatsword, Enemy 16 AC, With Advantage
Greatword average damage: 7
Percent Chance to hit: 84
ASI Damage: +4
Normal Chance to Crit: 9.75%
Champion Chance to Crit; 19% (a 9.25 percent increase)
Average Damage Per Hit: (7 + 4) = 11
Average Crit Damage: 7
11 x 0.84 = 9.24 Average Damage Per Attack (without crit damage)
Now add Crit Damage
Normal: 9.24 + (7 x .0925) = 7.6475
Champion: 9.24 + (7 x .19) = 8.33
With advantage (a much more ideal circumstance) in these parameters: Chamption adds 8.9% more damage per attack. It's the mathematical equivalence of changing 10 damage to 10.89 damage.
Simplify your parameters and get rid of anything that should be equal between the two sub-classes you are comparing. Instead of assuming a 50% hit rate, assume a 100% hit rate. This simplifies the math, and you still compare equivalent damage output between the two subclasses. IE: get rid of To-Hit bonus, damage mod and enemy AC.
?? The hit rate changes the damage increase percentage for Improved Critical, and nobody EVER has a 100% hit rate. Making it 100% will work against the Champion, and I won't do it. Because I'm interested in the numbers being accurate and representative of what people will experience. I'm not interested in making the math easier.
The static numeric increase is very easy to calculate; for example; 0.35 extra damage for a normal Greatsword. But for the percentage increase all we can do is spot check common parameters players will experience (NOT mining for uncommon, unrealistic best-case scenarios for our position).
First, for the calculator, I didn't touch anything other than setting the crit range, # of attacks, setting the damage die to a d6 (and somehow it didn't take for the bonus action) turning on the bonus attack (for TWF) and Elven Accuracy. I'll try again with the suggested changes, in a bit.
In your opinion is giving the Chamption double advantage with Elvin Accuracy, but not the regular Fighter fair or unfair?
About as unfair as not allowing the Champion to build around the strength of Improved Critical. If you want your fighter to have Elven Accuracy, go ahead. That means you have to change to DEX instead of STR and pick another weapon than your beloved broadsword.
In your opinion, does a Level 15 Elvin Champion Dex build with Elven Accuracy Feat represent a common parameter most players will experience, or is it an extreme anomaly?
It's the example I'm using to ILLUSTRATE how an increased threat range for criticals require a build that rolls more dice to take advantage of. If you want to compare your battlemaster to a poorly played Champion, then forget using your Superiority Dice to increase damage. There are many maneuvers that don't add damage that a non-damage optimized build could or would choose.
How does *replacing* Improved Critical with Superior Critical make the case that Improved Critical is worthwhile?
Hey, look. You're the one that came here to say the Champion sub-class is total garbage. Why are you making that decision based on only a part of it's features?
First, for the calculator, I didn't touch anything other than setting the crit range, # of attacks, setting the damage die to a d6 (and somehow it didn't take for the bonus action) turning on the bonus attack (for TWF) and Elven Accuracy. I'll try again with the suggested changes, in a bit.
In your opinion is giving the Chamption double advantage with Elvin Accuracy, but not the regular Fighter fair or unfair?
About as unfair as not allowing the Champion to build around the strength of Improved Critical. If you want your fighter to have Elven Accuracy, go ahead. That means you have to change to DEX instead of STR and pick another weapon than your beloved broadsword.
In your opinion, does a Level 15 Elvin Champion Dex build with Elven Accuracy Feat represent a common parameter most players will experience, or is it an extreme anomaly?
It's the example I'm using to ILLUSTRATE how an increased threat range for criticals require a build that rolls more dice to take advantage of. If you want to compare your battlemaster to a poorly played Champion, then forget using your Superiority Dice to increase damage. There are many maneuvers that don't add damage that a non-damage optimized build could or would choose.
How does *replacing* Improved Critical with Superior Critical make the case that Improved Critical is worthwhile?
Hey, look. You're the one that came here to say the Champion sub-class is total garbage. Why are you making that decision based on only a part of it's features?
Overall you just need to compare apples to apples....by introducing feats into one and not the other you are providing unequal comparisons.
At 15th level you are giving all the benefit to the champion (feats, BA attack, etc...) But not including the other fighters doing the same.
Linked here is a fighter with 4 attacks and a BA attack (Crossbow expert) and using its subclass features (Precision Die) which is a more direct comparison to your champion using TWF and a feat (Elven accuracy).
To be honest I could use Elven accuracy to make the posted battlemaster even more potent but its not really needed....they are averaging FAR more damage than the champion of the same level.
Overall the champion is not mechanically advantageous to Battlemaster in most situations. The battlemaster will out damage and have far more versatility options via maneuvers than a champion. The only benefit champion has is if you use a feat-less game with a very large number of fights between rests. This is a style of game that exists though so that would be the time to say the champion is advantageous.
First, for the calculator, I didn't touch anything other than setting the crit range, # of attacks, setting the damage die to a d6 (and somehow it didn't take for the bonus action) turning on the bonus attack (for TWF) and Elven Accuracy. I'll try again with the suggested changes, in a bit.
In your opinion is giving the Chamption double advantage with Elvin Accuracy, but not the regular Fighter fair or unfair?
About as unfair as not allowing the Champion to build around the strength of Improved Critical. If you want your fighter to have Elven Accuracy, go ahead. That means you have to change to DEX instead of STR and pick another weapon than your beloved broadsword.
In your opinion, does a Level 15 Elvin Champion Dex build with Elven Accuracy Feat represent a common parameter most players will experience, or is it an extreme anomaly?
It's the example I'm using to ILLUSTRATE how an increased threat range for criticals require a build that rolls more dice to take advantage of. If you want to compare your battlemaster to a poorly played Champion, then forget using your Superiority Dice to increase damage. There are many maneuvers that don't add damage that a non-damage optimized build could or would choose.
How does *replacing* Improved Critical with Superior Critical make the case that Improved Critical is worthwhile?
Hey, look. You're the one that came here to say the Champion sub-class is total garbage. Why are you making that decision based on only a part of it's features?
Who said you're not allowed to build to improve Improved Critical's strengths? I certainly didn't. But answering a question with a question is not answering the question at all. Well, you sort of did. You said, "About as unfair as..." So you admit you made a disingenuous comparison.
I'm approaching this by addressing common builds, Fighter levels, and AC levels that most players will experience. I've included advantage and I've included feats. You're approaching this by trying to find the absolutely best case scenarios, no matter how rare or unrealistic, and ridiculously high AC levels is does not represent the mean of the CR levels, and slipping in Improved Critical - a feature that *replaces* Improved Critical altogether.
I'm honestly trying to approach this fairly and objectively. I'm starting to think my initial assessment is correct that you are not.
I think we can all agree that a Champion built to optimize its features will perform better than a Fighter with no optimization and subclass features at all.
So with that shared understanding, where do we go from here?
TWF fighter has Elven Accuracy (because taking advantage of the increased threat range is entirely my point)
Champion:
Non-Champion:
I know this is not a FAIR comparison. The Non-Champion has no feats, no features, etc... But the damage output, if that is all that matters, is not horrible for the Champion...
I think we can all agree that a Champion built to optimize its features will perform better than a Fighter with no optimization and subclass features at all.
So with that shared understanding, where do we go from here?
From here I say that only choose champion if you are joining a feat-less game or you want to fully focus on the RP side of things with as little mechanical complexity as you can.
I think its perfect for people who want to just RP a fighter and have a campaign with a mostly RP focus.
If you really want to play for that sweet critical range I suggest you go for a crit-fishing build and only go to Champion 3 the rest barbarian and be a half-orc.
That is a fun build because of all the big die you get to roll on a crit!
This is the REAL DPR king and its not even close...
Battlemaster with Sharpshooter and CBE with precision die.
You are simply blowing champion out of the water and its not even close.
Lol, OK. I never said the Champion was going to be a DPR king.
Out of curiosity, how many other classes put out that much DPR?
Zealot Barbarian can produce a close amount due to GWM and a very easy way to get ADV consistently (Reckless).
Sorlock with Quickening EB at this level could maintain a pretty close approximation with pretty easy access to ADV (Greater Invis, Shadow of Moil, Darkness/Devilsight, etc..)
Ranger/Druid with Conjure Animals (8 Wolves tear stuff up....literally)
So quite a few....
The ones that will struggle are Rogue, Monk, Artificer, and Rangers who forgo Conjure Animals. Clerics can but they use a TON of resources (3rd level spell- Spirit Guardians and Upcasted Spiritual weapon) but thats less viable due to the resource burn.
Overall I am of the opinion that fighter should be the DPR King and the best DPR king for fighter is battlemaster bar none. Even Samurai can NOVA something to oblivion but can only do it a few times per day.
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I'll just do one right now. Parameters: Level 5 Fighter, 18 STR (+4 damage, +7 to hit) Greatsword, Enemy 16 AC, With Advantage
Greatword average damage: 7
Percent Chance to hit: 84
ASI Damage: +4
Normal Chance to Crit: 9.75%
Champion Chance to Crit; 19% (a 9.25 percent increase)
Average Damage Per Hit: (7 + 4) = 11
Average Crit Damage: 7
11 x 0.84 = 9.24 Average Damage Per Attack (without crit damage)
Now add Crit Damage
Normal: 9.24 + (7 x .0925) = 7.6475
Champion: 9.24 + (7 x .19) = 8.33
With advantage (a much more ideal circumstance) in these parameters: Chamption adds 8.9% more damage per attack. It's the mathematical equivalence of changing 10 damage to 10.89 damage.
Yeah....Champ is not very powerful overall. Its fine as it doesn't lag super hard but its main sthick is suppose to be pure damage as it offers vastly less versaility than the other subclasses. The sad reality is that in the most average of settings it will be underperforming Battlemaster for damage while battlemaster has several options for increased versatility OR it can go full on damage mode.
This is why Brute was actually a better option for a "simple" fighter. It had straight up damage boost and had some other unique features that made it hard to kill which at least put it in a different light than the other fighters.
Did you choose this because a Level 15 Camption Fighter (which uses Superior Critical, not Improved Critical) Elf (or Half elf) with Elven Accuracy (which doesn't apply to Strength Attacks) is a common parameter players will experience?
Is your argument, "Improved Critical is good because IF you choose to make Elf Dex Build - AND you pick up the Elven Accuracy Feat AND you get all the way up to Level 15 so you can replace Improved Critical with Superior Critical AND you happen to be attacking with advantage..... "?
Also, what was behind your conscious choice to give the Champion Elvin Accuracy, but NOT the non-Chamption?
What? The champion is the top graph. The plain fighter (no feats, just swinging a greatsword) is the bottom graph.
The plain fighter does more damage to low AC opponents. The Champion does more damage to high AC opponents. By a lot.
Note: I goofed and didn't switch the offhand to be 1d6. Those graphs show damage from a 1d8 offhand. But, the offhand has no way to add the MOD bonus for Two Weapon fighting style.
What attack bonus did you put into the calculator? It looks like you're assuming a +5 attack bonus for a 20th level fighter, not a more typical +14 (20 str/dex, +6 proficiency, +3 weapon). But yes, a Champion does more damage than an unsubclassed fighter.
Simplify your parameters and get rid of anything that should be equal between the two sub-classes you are comparing. Instead of assuming a 50% hit rate, assume a 100% hit rate. This simplifies the math, and you still compare equivalent damage output between the two subclasses. IE: get rid of To-Hit bonus, damage mod and enemy AC.
Are you reading the graph right?
For normal swings at AC 20 for the Champ is 13.125 and 14.6 for generic fighter. Are you assuming you have ADV literally all the time? How are you generating this with Champ? Battlemaster has a better time generating ADV with Trip Attack vs. Champ who would have to give up an attack to trip which lowers their DPR as they are forgoing an attack.
Also funny how you are allowing a feat for the champ but forgoing for the battlemaster and the numbers still favor a Battlemaster lol.
Also you should compare to the REAL damage option: Sharpshooter + CBE Battlemaster using precision die:
A few things here.
1. In your opinion is giving the Chamption double advantage with Elvin Accuracy, but not the regular Fighter fair or unfair?
2. In your opinion, does a Level 15 Elvin Champion Dex build with Elven Accuracy Feat represent a common parameter most players will experience, or is it an extreme anomaly?
3. How does *replacing* Improved Critical with Superior Critical make the case that Improved Critical is worthwhile?
https://imgur.com/a/vA9528C
This is the REAL DPR king and its not even close...
Battlemaster with Sharpshooter and CBE with precision die.
You are simply blowing champion out of the water and its not even close.
?? The hit rate changes the damage increase percentage for Improved Critical, and nobody EVER has a 100% hit rate. Making it 100% will work against the Champion, and I won't do it. Because I'm interested in the numbers being accurate and representative of what people will experience. I'm not interested in making the math easier.
The static numeric increase is very easy to calculate; for example; 0.35 extra damage for a normal Greatsword. But for the percentage increase all we can do is spot check common parameters players will experience (NOT mining for uncommon, unrealistic best-case scenarios for our position).
First, for the calculator, I didn't touch anything other than setting the crit range, # of attacks, setting the damage die to a d6 (and somehow it didn't take for the bonus action) turning on the bonus attack (for TWF) and Elven Accuracy. I'll try again with the suggested changes, in a bit.
This is very believable. Turning a miss into a (+10 damage SS) hit is huge. It turns a 0 into the entire damage pool (bonuses and dice damage).
Overall you just need to compare apples to apples....by introducing feats into one and not the other you are providing unequal comparisons.
At 15th level you are giving all the benefit to the champion (feats, BA attack, etc...) But not including the other fighters doing the same.
https://imgur.com/a/vA9528C
Linked here is a fighter with 4 attacks and a BA attack (Crossbow expert) and using its subclass features (Precision Die) which is a more direct comparison to your champion using TWF and a feat (Elven accuracy).
To be honest I could use Elven accuracy to make the posted battlemaster even more potent but its not really needed....they are averaging FAR more damage than the champion of the same level.
Overall the champion is not mechanically advantageous to Battlemaster in most situations. The battlemaster will out damage and have far more versatility options via maneuvers than a champion. The only benefit champion has is if you use a feat-less game with a very large number of fights between rests. This is a style of game that exists though so that would be the time to say the champion is advantageous.
Who said you're not allowed to build to improve Improved Critical's strengths? I certainly didn't. But answering a question with a question is not answering the question at all. Well, you sort of did. You said, "About as unfair as..." So you admit you made a disingenuous comparison.
I'm approaching this by addressing common builds, Fighter levels, and AC levels that most players will experience. I've included advantage and I've included feats. You're approaching this by trying to find the absolutely best case scenarios, no matter how rare or unrealistic, and ridiculously high AC levels is does not represent the mean of the CR levels, and slipping in Improved Critical - a feature that *replaces* Improved Critical altogether.
I'm honestly trying to approach this fairly and objectively. I'm starting to think my initial assessment is correct that you are not.
I think we can all agree that a Champion built to optimize its features will perform better than a Fighter with no optimization and subclass features at all.
So with that shared understanding, where do we go from here?
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
To be fair, here are the graphs with the following parameters:
Champion:
Non-Champion:
I know this is not a FAIR comparison. The Non-Champion has no feats, no features, etc... But the damage output, if that is all that matters, is not horrible for the Champion...
Yeah, just on that note,
Archery Fighting Style + Sharpshooter Feat + Precision Attack: Sounds like a really nasty combination.
From here I say that only choose champion if you are joining a feat-less game or you want to fully focus on the RP side of things with as little mechanical complexity as you can.
I think its perfect for people who want to just RP a fighter and have a campaign with a mostly RP focus.
If you really want to play for that sweet critical range I suggest you go for a crit-fishing build and only go to Champion 3 the rest barbarian and be a half-orc.
That is a fun build because of all the big die you get to roll on a crit!
Lol, OK. I never said the Champion was going to be a DPR king.
Out of curiosity, how many other classes put out that much DPR?
Edit: Sorry if I'm not replying to all the other posts. Too many.
Zealot Barbarian can produce a close amount due to GWM and a very easy way to get ADV consistently (Reckless).
Sorlock with Quickening EB at this level could maintain a pretty close approximation with pretty easy access to ADV (Greater Invis, Shadow of Moil, Darkness/Devilsight, etc..)
Wizard/Bard with Animate Objects (https://thinkdm.org/2020/07/11/animate-objects/)
Ranger/Druid with Conjure Animals (8 Wolves tear stuff up....literally)
So quite a few....
The ones that will struggle are Rogue, Monk, Artificer, and Rangers who forgo Conjure Animals. Clerics can but they use a TON of resources (3rd level spell- Spirit Guardians and Upcasted Spiritual weapon) but thats less viable due to the resource burn.
Overall I am of the opinion that fighter should be the DPR King and the best DPR king for fighter is battlemaster bar none. Even Samurai can NOVA something to oblivion but can only do it a few times per day.