I think the problem they are trying to solve is casters always having a spell to fix the problem. Often you will find that casters have a better solution than rolling a d20 test. It’s crazy how they can break the d20 system with the correct spell. Low level combat- magic missile is one of the best spells until about 3rd or 4th level. Can’t see- light, darkvision, produce flame, dancing lights. Torn map- mending. Locked door- knock (does have some negatives). Terrain issue- spider climb, jump, fly, passwall, water walk, water breath, tree stride, misty step. And there is more.
It’s impossible to bring non casters up to the power of casters. Honestly though I don’t think it’s a huge problem. I don’t like the restrictions the new way of prepping spells applies. I think all casters should get bonus preps based on there spell casting mod. The bonus preps can be of any level you have slots. Well Wizards might not need this. They are probably going to prepare somewhat different. If they prepare like everyone else, they will probably get a feature called spellbook or something that will act like cleric domain spells, but the player gets to pick what’s in the book instead of being set. Speaking of Domain spells I hope they give them back their 1st level domain spells. I put it on the survey, but they will only see that if enough people put it on the survey.
The funny part is that in earlier editions, there was already a balance for casters, but when they buffed cantrips, they took that away. Before that, casters had to balance damage and utility. Now, they can do both and they can actually focus more on utility.
I like casters having utility to be honest. But they don't have a corresponding limitation like they used to. Maybe stop having cantrips scale so they're useful at low levels, and you can always do something, but you're not as effective once your spells are used up. Of course, I started in the days of d4 HD and wizards having to rely on throwing darts. ;)
Full casters already try to force parties to long rest when they are out of spell slots, if cantrips didn’t scale they would be trying to force that long rest soon as there top 3 spell slots were gone. Like, “Hey guys that was my last 3rd level spell we should long rest” “Wait you are out of spell slots. We only had one quick encounter.” “I’m not out of spell slots, but nothing I have left deals any comparable damage.”
Ive always felt like Cantrip scaling often makes first level spells pointless for damage dealing which they shouldn’t, but if you get rid of the scaling I fear it would cause more problems.
It’s impossible to bring non casters up to the power of casters.
Untrue. The hard part is doing it in a way that isn't obviously supernatural.
It's only hard because we're imposing the needless restriction that martials can't be supernatural. The world of D&D is full of non-spellcasting monsters that are nonetheless infused with magic. 4e had martial powers like Hurricane of Steel and it was frickin awesome.
Certain abilities like Evasion can already be pretty hard to justify as mundane when the thief dodges the fireball that fills the room. So just let them blink out of existence for a moment. Let them do cool stuff that a youtuber can't recreate in their backyard. Why not? Go play Call of Duty or something if you want your character to be a regular mortal.
TBH, I've always felt that preparing spells has been a constant thorn in my side as a caster. More specifically, the issue is that I can have only so many spells prepared at one time so combat spells end up taking up the majority of possible slots. A utility spell like purify food/drink might be invaluable in certain, highly-specific, situations (like when you suspect an assassin is trying to kill someone via a poisoned wine goblet), but the remaining 99% of the time it's going to just sit there in your spellbook taking up space. Preparing it is completely pointless because you're just not going to be in a situation where it can even be used. It also kind of renders the 'ritual' tag pointless since you need to prep the spell anyways and if it's worth casting odds are it's worth casting NOW as opposed to waiting 10 minutes to cast.
Personally, I'd rework it so that there is a specific 'utility' tag. Spells with it can be cast even if they are not prepared either by expending a spell slot 1 level higher than it's level for it's normal cast time, or without expending a spell slot but with a 5 minute cast time. If a spell, for whatever reason, needs a longer cast or can't be cast even then, it can mention it in the spell description. I might even suggest this expend to combat spells where you can either cast them without prep by either expending two rounds instead of 1 or by expending 1 spell slot higher than normal to cast it.
In fact, I kind of like this suggestion in general as it means a caster isn't screwed over if they need a specific spell that they didn't prep, but at the same time spell slots and prep is invaluable still because, otherwise, the spell takes so long to cast or is so costly that it can't be sustained for long.
The spell restrictions for clerics don't seem bad so far. Subclass spells fill out options and preparing a lot of high level spells was always restricted by number of slots already.
I still think its a poor decision to give casters less choice with their spell selection when certain spells are meant to be used sparingly vs others more often but because you can only pick a limited number of 5th, 6th, 7th etc spells you're only going to choose reliable and more used spells making it feel less fun and giving them less resources to solve issues with.
Seems better to just say pick any amount of spells equal to spells slots known, so if you have 4x1st lvl, 3x 2nd lvl and 2x 3rd level spell slots you can pick any 9 spells no matter their level up to 3rd of course. Still easy for a new player to know how many spells they can use, simple math, and still gives room to change it up.
Also, Bard's don't have access to Wish spell, its Conjuration.
The spell restrictions for clerics don't seem bad so far. Subclass spells fill out options and preparing a lot of high level spells was always restricted by number of slots already.
This really shows me how much we are missing out on the 1st level domain spells. Levels 2-5 look fine but the most common spells look shortchanged. I hope they bring them back in some way. Either-
Just give them at level 3 when you pick your domain.
Give some that fit thematically with you Holy Order
Or let every character pick 2 of their choice at level 1 and they are locked in for the rest of the time.
I like the last one best personally. It feels like a nice way to customize your character. And it might help compromise for the people who feel their god isn't well represented without the domain. You could pick two that match your god's theme as you imagine it.
I still think its a poor decision to give casters less choice with their spell selection when certain spells are meant to be used sparingly vs others more often but because you can only pick a limited number of 5th, 6th, 7th etc spells you're only going to choose reliable and more used spells making it feel less fun and giving them less resources to solve issues with.
Seems better to just say pick any amount of spells equal to spells slots known, so if you have 4x1st lvl, 3x 2nd lvl and 2x 3rd level spell slots you can pick any 9 spells no matter their level up to 3rd of course. Still easy for a new player to know how many spells they can use, simple math, and still gives room to change it up.
Also, Bard's don't have access to Wish spell, its Conjuration.
I added acid splash and wish through arcane secrets, and dispel magic and symbol through divine secrets in that list. Magical secrets still opens up a lot. ;-)
The spell restrictions for clerics don't seem bad so far. Subclass spells fill out options and preparing a lot of high level spells was always restricted by number of slots already.
This really shows me how much we are missing out on the 1st level domain spells. Levels 2-5 look fine but the most common spells look shortchanged. I hope they bring them back in some way. Either-
Just give them at level 3 when you pick your domain.
Give some that fit thematically with you Holy Order
Or let every character pick 2 of their choice at level 1 and they are locked in for the rest of the time.
I like the last one best personally. It feels like a nice way to customize your character. And it might help compromise for the people who feel their god isn't well represented without the domain. You could pick two that match your god's theme as you imagine it.
Clerics are only down a few spells prepared. Bards have increased the total number of spells prepped over known but with fewer in earlier levels.
It's not so much the total number of spells prepared that looks sad. It's only having four level 1 spells, but 6 at each level after through 5. Level 1 spells are really useful and help establish a character. I wish we could get them back. They were only lost because domains moved to level 3 and I guess they thought it looked weird to pick up both 1st and 2nd level domain spells at once?
It's not so much the total number of spells prepared that looks sad. It's only having four level 1 spells, but 6 at each level after through 5. Level 1 spells are really useful and help establish a character. I wish we could get them back. They were only lost because domains moved to level 3 and I guess they thought it looked weird to pick up both 1st and 2nd level domain spells at once?
That definitely looks weird, I agree. I don't see the issue with giving 1st and 2nd-level spells together, however. Giving both cure wounds and healing word with the life domain at 3rd level wouldn't hurt the class and would allow for more variety in spell selection. Streamlined and simple, and matches the domain theme.
It’s impossible to bring non casters up to the power of casters.
Untrue. The hard part is doing it in a way that isn't obviously supernatural.
It's only hard because we're imposing the needless restriction that martials can't be supernatural. The world of D&D is full of non-spellcasting monsters that are nonetheless infused with magic. 4e had martial powers like Hurricane of Steel and it was frickin awesome.
Certain abilities like Evasion can already be pretty hard to justify as mundane when the thief dodges the fireball that fills the room. So just let them blink out of existence for a moment. Let them do cool stuff that a youtuber can't recreate in their backyard. Why not? Go play Call of Duty or something if you want your character to be a regular mortal.
I think the problem is how do you give warriors equal power that is limited like spells and make it make sense. I like superiority dice, but often see complaints about how it doesn’t make since consider the character clearly knows how to repost, or trip attack, so why did he run out of uses. Another major flaw extends that to the next level. The best way to make martials comparable to spell casters was done in 4e. I suppose you wouldn’t have to go as far as 4e did with every martial power defined, but you would have to create a system of limited use abilities for martials that scale like spells My fear is that you slowly end up back at the complexity of 4e since every ability needs its own description and cost. In general the fantasy people are looking for isn’t one we’re envision blinks you out of existence. It’s one where you see the fireball coming and dive to the ground or spin around rapidly avoiding the damage. It’s not magical it’s just super human.
Easy fix is basically you steal the encounter, utility and daily powers from 4e, but leave behind the at wills. Then alter them so they have a point cost instead of a once per encounter or once per day. You also don’t need them all. Some of them seem redundant. The biggest flaw to this is the complexity since every warrior class would need its own list of abilities, and most likely people would eventually want a similar system on Paladin, Ranger, and rogue. Which would send us back to 4e.
I still think its a poor decision to give casters less choice with their spell selection when certain spells are meant to be used sparingly vs others more often but because you can only pick a limited number of 5th, 6th, 7th etc spells you're only going to choose reliable and more used spells making it feel less fun and giving them less resources to solve issues with.
Seems better to just say pick any amount of spells equal to spells slots known, so if you have 4x1st lvl, 3x 2nd lvl and 2x 3rd level spell slots you can pick any 9 spells no matter their level up to 3rd of course. Still easy for a new player to know how many spells they can use, simple math, and still gives room to change it up.
Also, Bard's don't have access to Wish spell, its Conjuration.
I added acid splash and wish through arcane secrets, and dispel magic and symbol through divine secrets in that list. Magical secrets still opens up a lot. ;-)
I hate how limiting the new approach is for player versatility and flexibility. This new system won't make people look at often underused or underappreciated spells, it will simply remove niche/situational spells from everyone's spell choices. I do understand the design goal of wanting to limit spellcasting and force players to think more carefully about what they choose.
However, imagine I'm at a level where I can only prepare 2 spells of a certain level, how can I ever justify picking something that only makes sense in very rare circumstances that aren't going to come up 95% of the time; that forces me to rely on whatever other spell I pick as essentially my only level X spell. I will never even consider preparing Knock or Detect Poison or Feather Fall or Daylight or any of the multiple other spells I might think about having as a "just in case".
Personally, if the design team want to move in this kind of direction, I see one of 3 ways to make this much more palatable while keeping it simple/approachable for new players:
--- Number of prepared spells = Total number of spell slots (but no limitations/restrictions in terms of how many of each level)
This is my less preferred option cause it is still so limiting at early levels. The upside is there is some flexibility while still keeping the total number of spells relatively low.
--- Number of prepared spells = Spell slots (restricted to same number as each level) + Spellcasting Modifier
This basically keeps the current new system but adds some flexibility by adding around 3 to 5 free picks of additional spells. I do realise how much of a boost this gives at early levels; more than doubling how many spells you can prepare at level 1 if you have a +3 in the relevant ability score.
--- Number of prepared spells = Spell slots (restricted to same number as each level) + Half of Class level (rounded up)
This works similar to the previous idea but gives a smaller bump at early levels (which may then result in too big a boost at later levels). I have fears that this would get too complicated and bothersome when multiclassing comes into play, especially for newer players, to try and figure out how many spells exactly you have prepared for each of your classes. It would be nice to find some middle-ground of scaling that gives fewer extra spells early on without giving 8/9/10 at higher levels...maybe proficiency bonus.
It’s impossible to bring non casters up to the power of casters.
Untrue. The hard part is doing it in a way that isn't obviously supernatural.
It's only hard because we're imposing the needless restriction that martials can't be supernatural. The world of D&D is full of non-spellcasting monsters that are nonetheless infused with magic. 4e had martial powers like Hurricane of Steel and it was frickin awesome.
Certain abilities like Evasion can already be pretty hard to justify as mundane when the thief dodges the fireball that fills the room. So just let them blink out of existence for a moment. Let them do cool stuff that a youtuber can't recreate in their backyard. Why not? Go play Call of Duty or something if you want your character to be a regular mortal.
I think the problem is how do you give warriors equal power that is limited like spells and make it make sense. I like superiority dice, but often see complaints about how it doesn’t make since consider the character clearly knows how to repost, or trip attack, so why did he run out of uses. Another major flaw extends that to the next level. The best way to make martials comparable to spell casters was done in 4e. I suppose you wouldn’t have to go as far as 4e did with every martial power defined, but you would have to create a system of limited use abilities for martials that scale like spells My fear is that you slowly end up back at the complexity of 4e since every ability needs its own description and cost. In general the fantasy people are looking for isn’t one we’re envision blinks you out of existence. It’s one where you see the fireball coming and dive to the ground or spin around rapidly avoiding the damage. It’s not magical it’s just super human.
Easy fix is basically you steal the encounter, utility and daily powers from 4e, but leave behind the at wills. Then alter them so they have a point cost instead of a once per encounter or once per day. You also don’t need them all. Some of them seem redundant. The biggest flaw to this is the complexity since every warrior class would need its own list of abilities, and most likely people would eventually want a similar system on Paladin, Ranger, and rogue. Which would send us back to 4e.
Honestly, what's the point? Why invent a whole new system that works the same way as spells and spellslots for martials? Just make a suite of Gish subclasses so people who want to play as a martial with spells can just play a full spellcaster that is also a martial. It's simple to reflavour many spells as things martials do to make the gish feel like a martial. e.g. here's my bladesinger flavoured entirely as a non-magical character:
Rythan picks up her suit of enchanted armour and dons it spending extra effort to arrange each plate just so to reflect the maximum damage - cast Mage Armour. As the sword arcs towards her head Rythan enters a defensive stance her rapier flickers faster than the eye can see, deflecting the blow - cast Shield With a flick of her wrist a multi-paneled shield springs out of its sheath on her arm and she thrust it between herself and the explosion of fire blocking her chest and face from the searing heat - cast Absorb Elements. Rythan quickly draws a net and hurls it towards the enemies - cast Web Rythan throws down a small glass orb that shatters with a burst of smoke, obscuring all vision of her for a moment, when it clears she is gone, now hiding behind a wall 30 ft away - cast Misty Step Rythan crouches into a runners stance then in a blur leaps into motion, running faster and faster until with a boom she breaks the speed of sound and a sonic boom ripples through the crowd of enemies - cast Shatter. Rythan takes a moment to focus, the tempo of her song increasing and becoming erratic as she begins a complex dance of constant yet unpredictable motion - cast Blur etc....etc...
It’s impossible to bring non casters up to the power of casters.
Untrue. The hard part is doing it in a way that isn't obviously supernatural.
It's only hard because we're imposing the needless restriction that martials can't be supernatural. The world of D&D is full of non-spellcasting monsters that are nonetheless infused with magic. 4e had martial powers like Hurricane of Steel and it was frickin awesome.
Certain abilities like Evasion can already be pretty hard to justify as mundane when the thief dodges the fireball that fills the room. So just let them blink out of existence for a moment. Let them do cool stuff that a youtuber can't recreate in their backyard. Why not? Go play Call of Duty or something if you want your character to be a regular mortal.
I think the problem is how do you give warriors equal power that is limited like spells and make it make sense. I like superiority dice, but often see complaints about how it doesn’t make since consider the character clearly knows how to repost, or trip attack, so why did he run out of uses. Another major flaw extends that to the next level. The best way to make martials comparable to spell casters was done in 4e. I suppose you wouldn’t have to go as far as 4e did with every martial power defined, but you would have to create a system of limited use abilities for martials that scale like spells My fear is that you slowly end up back at the complexity of 4e since every ability needs its own description and cost. In general the fantasy people are looking for isn’t one we’re envision blinks you out of existence. It’s one where you see the fireball coming and dive to the ground or spin around rapidly avoiding the damage. It’s not magical it’s just super human.
Easy fix is basically you steal the encounter, utility and daily powers from 4e, but leave behind the at wills. Then alter them so they have a point cost instead of a once per encounter or once per day. You also don’t need them all. Some of them seem redundant. The biggest flaw to this is the complexity since every warrior class would need its own list of abilities, and most likely people would eventually want a similar system on Paladin, Ranger, and rogue. Which would send us back to 4e.
Honestly, what's the point? Why invent a whole new system that works the same way as spells and spellslots for martials? Just make a suite of Gish subclasses so people who want to play as a martial with spells can just play a full spellcaster that is also a martial. It's simple to reflavour many spells as things martials do to make the gish feel like a martial. e.g. here's my bladesinger flavoured entirely as a non-magical character:
Rythan picks up her suit of enchanted armour and dons it spending extra effort to arrange each plate just so to reflect the maximum damage - cast Mage Armour. As the sword arcs towards her head Rythan enters a defensive stance her rapier flickers faster than the eye can see, deflecting the blow - cast Shield With a flick of her wrist a multi-paneled shield springs out of its sheath on her arm and she thrust it between herself and the explosion of fire blocking her chest and face from the searing heat - cast Absorb Elements. Rythan quickly draws a net and hurls it towards the enemies - cast Web Rythan throws down a small glass orb that shatters with a burst of smoke, obscuring all vision of her for a moment, when it clears she is gone, now hiding behind a wall 30 ft away - cast Misty Step Rythan crouches into a runners stance then in a blur leaps into motion, running faster and faster until with a boom she breaks the speed of sound and a sonic boom ripples through the crowd of enemies - cast Shatter. Rythan takes a moment to focus, the tempo of her song increasing and becoming erratic as she begins a complex dance of constant yet unpredictable motion - cast Blur etc....etc...
You missed what is being asked. They don’t want magic, they want the Champion fighter to feel as powerful as a Wizard. In 4e all classes were perfectly balanced. I didn’t create a new system I stole from 4e.
It’s impossible to bring non casters up to the power of casters.
Untrue. The hard part is doing it in a way that isn't obviously supernatural.
It's only hard because we're imposing the needless restriction that martials can't be supernatural. The world of D&D is full of non-spellcasting monsters that are nonetheless infused with magic. 4e had martial powers like Hurricane of Steel and it was frickin awesome.
Certain abilities like Evasion can already be pretty hard to justify as mundane when the thief dodges the fireball that fills the room. So just let them blink out of existence for a moment. Let them do cool stuff that a youtuber can't recreate in their backyard. Why not? Go play Call of Duty or something if you want your character to be a regular mortal.
I think the problem is how do you give warriors equal power that is limited like spells and make it make sense. I like superiority dice, but often see complaints about how it doesn’t make since consider the character clearly knows how to repost, or trip attack, so why did he run out of uses. Another major flaw extends that to the next level. The best way to make martials comparable to spell casters was done in 4e. I suppose you wouldn’t have to go as far as 4e did with every martial power defined, but you would have to create a system of limited use abilities for martials that scale like spells My fear is that you slowly end up back at the complexity of 4e since every ability needs its own description and cost. In general the fantasy people are looking for isn’t one we’re envision blinks you out of existence. It’s one where you see the fireball coming and dive to the ground or spin around rapidly avoiding the damage. It’s not magical it’s just super human.
Easy fix is basically you steal the encounter, utility and daily powers from 4e, but leave behind the at wills. Then alter them so they have a point cost instead of a once per encounter or once per day. You also don’t need them all. Some of them seem redundant. The biggest flaw to this is the complexity since every warrior class would need its own list of abilities, and most likely people would eventually want a similar system on Paladin, Ranger, and rogue. Which would send us back to 4e.
Honestly, what's the point? Why invent a whole new system that works the same way as spells and spellslots for martials? Just make a suite of Gish subclasses so people who want to play as a martial with spells can just play a full spellcaster that is also a martial. It's simple to reflavour many spells as things martials do to make the gish feel like a martial. e.g. here's my bladesinger flavoured entirely as a non-magical character:
Rythan picks up her suit of enchanted armour and dons it spending extra effort to arrange each plate just so to reflect the maximum damage - cast Mage Armour. As the sword arcs towards her head Rythan enters a defensive stance her rapier flickers faster than the eye can see, deflecting the blow - cast Shield With a flick of her wrist a multi-paneled shield springs out of its sheath on her arm and she thrust it between herself and the explosion of fire blocking her chest and face from the searing heat - cast Absorb Elements. Rythan quickly draws a net and hurls it towards the enemies - cast Web Rythan throws down a small glass orb that shatters with a burst of smoke, obscuring all vision of her for a moment, when it clears she is gone, now hiding behind a wall 30 ft away - cast Misty Step Rythan crouches into a runners stance then in a blur leaps into motion, running faster and faster until with a boom she breaks the speed of sound and a sonic boom ripples through the crowd of enemies - cast Shatter. Rythan takes a moment to focus, the tempo of her song increasing and becoming erratic as she begins a complex dance of constant yet unpredictable motion - cast Blur etc....etc...
You missed what is being asked. They don’t want magic, they want the Champion fighter to feel as powerful as a Wizard. In 4e all classes were perfectly balanced. I didn’t create a new system I stole from 4e.
You're still introducing an entirely new system to 5e that is mostly redundant with spellcasting. Any system that is added to make a Champion "like a Wizard" is effectively duplicating the spellcasting system for martials under a different name, that's essentially what 4e was : everyone got powers with different names but mostly did the same things and were limited use. 4e was excessively complicated and classes did not feel particularly distinct from each other which is why people stuck to Pathfinder & 3.5e instead.
I like it (because it nerfs casters in an intuitive and easy to play way, they can't frontload a bunch of their highest-level nukes anymore) with one caveat - you should be able to prepare more lower level spells in place of higher level ones. That would maintain the spirit of the nerf, while also giving you more options in cases where you get more mileage out of lower spell levels than higher ones.
For example - a 13th level wizard can't run around with Forcecage, Teleport, Simulacrum and Crown of Stars all prepped just in case anymore, they need to choose one. And that will likely mean coordinating with another 13th level caster in the party to try and cover what they can't. It means you are more likely to want a wizard and a sorcerer in the same party for instance. I see that as a design win.
I hate it. I don't really think it's that much of a nerf, but what it does do is remove a benefit of increasing your spellcasting ability, which makes ability scores more boring.
You already have plenty of incentive to do that anyway between DCs and spell attacks. And now, casters who need neither thanks to careful spell selection don't have their layout crippled.
Untrue. The hard part is doing it in a way that isn't obviously supernatural.
Or, conversely, to make magic feel mundane.
Full casters already try to force parties to long rest when they are out of spell slots, if cantrips didn’t scale they would be trying to force that long rest soon as there top 3 spell slots were gone. Like, “Hey guys that was my last 3rd level spell we should long rest” “Wait you are out of spell slots. We only had one quick encounter.” “I’m not out of spell slots, but nothing I have left deals any comparable damage.”
Ive always felt like Cantrip scaling often makes first level spells pointless for damage dealing which they shouldn’t, but if you get rid of the scaling I fear it would cause more problems.
It's only hard because we're imposing the needless restriction that martials can't be supernatural. The world of D&D is full of non-spellcasting monsters that are nonetheless infused with magic. 4e had martial powers like Hurricane of Steel and it was frickin awesome.
Certain abilities like Evasion can already be pretty hard to justify as mundane when the thief dodges the fireball that fills the room. So just let them blink out of existence for a moment. Let them do cool stuff that a youtuber can't recreate in their backyard. Why not? Go play Call of Duty or something if you want your character to be a regular mortal.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
TBH, I've always felt that preparing spells has been a constant thorn in my side as a caster. More specifically, the issue is that I can have only so many spells prepared at one time so combat spells end up taking up the majority of possible slots. A utility spell like purify food/drink might be invaluable in certain, highly-specific, situations (like when you suspect an assassin is trying to kill someone via a poisoned wine goblet), but the remaining 99% of the time it's going to just sit there in your spellbook taking up space. Preparing it is completely pointless because you're just not going to be in a situation where it can even be used. It also kind of renders the 'ritual' tag pointless since you need to prep the spell anyways and if it's worth casting odds are it's worth casting NOW as opposed to waiting 10 minutes to cast.
Personally, I'd rework it so that there is a specific 'utility' tag. Spells with it can be cast even if they are not prepared either by expending a spell slot 1 level higher than it's level for it's normal cast time, or without expending a spell slot but with a 5 minute cast time. If a spell, for whatever reason, needs a longer cast or can't be cast even then, it can mention it in the spell description. I might even suggest this expend to combat spells where you can either cast them without prep by either expending two rounds instead of 1 or by expending 1 spell slot higher than normal to cast it.
In fact, I kind of like this suggestion in general as it means a caster isn't screwed over if they need a specific spell that they didn't prep, but at the same time spell slots and prep is invaluable still because, otherwise, the spell takes so long to cast or is so costly that it can't be sustained for long.
I don't play CoD, but as far as I know, you can recover from a bullet wound by just not being hit for 5 seconds or so in that game...
The spell restrictions for clerics don't seem bad so far. Subclass spells fill out options and preparing a lot of high level spells was always restricted by number of slots already.
Life Cleric (22+8 domain):
Lore Bard (22+5 songs of restoration; arcane and divine secrets):
The selection seems sufficient.
I still think its a poor decision to give casters less choice with their spell selection when certain spells are meant to be used sparingly vs others more often but because you can only pick a limited number of 5th, 6th, 7th etc spells you're only going to choose reliable and more used spells making it feel less fun and giving them less resources to solve issues with.
Seems better to just say pick any amount of spells equal to spells slots known, so if you have 4x1st lvl, 3x 2nd lvl and 2x 3rd level spell slots you can pick any 9 spells no matter their level up to 3rd of course. Still easy for a new player to know how many spells they can use, simple math, and still gives room to change it up.
Also, Bard's don't have access to Wish spell, its Conjuration.
This really shows me how much we are missing out on the 1st level domain spells. Levels 2-5 look fine but the most common spells look shortchanged. I hope they bring them back in some way. Either-
Just give them at level 3 when you pick your domain.
Give some that fit thematically with you Holy Order
Or let every character pick 2 of their choice at level 1 and they are locked in for the rest of the time.
I like the last one best personally. It feels like a nice way to customize your character. And it might help compromise for the people who feel their god isn't well represented without the domain. You could pick two that match your god's theme as you imagine it.
I added acid splash and wish through arcane secrets, and dispel magic and symbol through divine secrets in that list. Magical secrets still opens up a lot. ;-)
Clerics are only down a few spells prepared. Bards have increased the total number of spells prepped over known but with fewer in earlier levels.
It's not so much the total number of spells prepared that looks sad. It's only having four level 1 spells, but 6 at each level after through 5. Level 1 spells are really useful and help establish a character. I wish we could get them back. They were only lost because domains moved to level 3 and I guess they thought it looked weird to pick up both 1st and 2nd level domain spells at once?
That definitely looks weird, I agree. I don't see the issue with giving 1st and 2nd-level spells together, however. Giving both cure wounds and healing word with the life domain at 3rd level wouldn't hurt the class and would allow for more variety in spell selection. Streamlined and simple, and matches the domain theme.
I think the problem is how do you give warriors equal power that is limited like spells and make it make sense. I like superiority dice, but often see complaints about how it doesn’t make since consider the character clearly knows how to repost, or trip attack, so why did he run out of uses. Another major flaw extends that to the next level. The best way to make martials comparable to spell casters was done in 4e. I suppose you wouldn’t have to go as far as 4e did with every martial power defined, but you would have to create a system of limited use abilities for martials that scale like spells My fear is that you slowly end up back at the complexity of 4e since every ability needs its own description and cost. In general the fantasy people are looking for isn’t one we’re envision blinks you out of existence. It’s one where you see the fireball coming and dive to the ground or spin around rapidly avoiding the damage. It’s not magical it’s just super human.
Easy fix is basically you steal the encounter, utility and daily powers from 4e, but leave behind the at wills. Then alter them so they have a point cost instead of a once per encounter or once per day. You also don’t need them all. Some of them seem redundant. The biggest flaw to this is the complexity since every warrior class would need its own list of abilities, and most likely people would eventually want a similar system on Paladin, Ranger, and rogue. Which would send us back to 4e.
Ahh I gotcha, makes sense.
I hate how limiting the new approach is for player versatility and flexibility. This new system won't make people look at often underused or underappreciated spells, it will simply remove niche/situational spells from everyone's spell choices. I do understand the design goal of wanting to limit spellcasting and force players to think more carefully about what they choose.
However, imagine I'm at a level where I can only prepare 2 spells of a certain level, how can I ever justify picking something that only makes sense in very rare circumstances that aren't going to come up 95% of the time; that forces me to rely on whatever other spell I pick as essentially my only level X spell. I will never even consider preparing Knock or Detect Poison or Feather Fall or Daylight or any of the multiple other spells I might think about having as a "just in case".
Personally, if the design team want to move in this kind of direction, I see one of 3 ways to make this much more palatable while keeping it simple/approachable for new players:
--- Number of prepared spells = Total number of spell slots (but no limitations/restrictions in terms of how many of each level)
This is my less preferred option cause it is still so limiting at early levels. The upside is there is some flexibility while still keeping the total number of spells relatively low.
--- Number of prepared spells = Spell slots (restricted to same number as each level) + Spellcasting Modifier
This basically keeps the current new system but adds some flexibility by adding around 3 to 5 free picks of additional spells. I do realise how much of a boost this gives at early levels; more than doubling how many spells you can prepare at level 1 if you have a +3 in the relevant ability score.
--- Number of prepared spells = Spell slots (restricted to same number as each level) + Half of Class level (rounded up)
This works similar to the previous idea but gives a smaller bump at early levels (which may then result in too big a boost at later levels). I have fears that this would get too complicated and bothersome when multiclassing comes into play, especially for newer players, to try and figure out how many spells exactly you have prepared for each of your classes. It would be nice to find some middle-ground of scaling that gives fewer extra spells early on without giving 8/9/10 at higher levels...maybe proficiency bonus.
Honestly, what's the point? Why invent a whole new system that works the same way as spells and spellslots for martials? Just make a suite of Gish subclasses so people who want to play as a martial with spells can just play a full spellcaster that is also a martial. It's simple to reflavour many spells as things martials do to make the gish feel like a martial. e.g. here's my bladesinger flavoured entirely as a non-magical character:
Rythan picks up her suit of enchanted armour and dons it spending extra effort to arrange each plate just so to reflect the maximum damage - cast Mage Armour.
As the sword arcs towards her head Rythan enters a defensive stance her rapier flickers faster than the eye can see, deflecting the blow - cast Shield
With a flick of her wrist a multi-paneled shield springs out of its sheath on her arm and she thrust it between herself and the explosion of fire blocking her chest and face from the searing heat - cast Absorb Elements.
Rythan quickly draws a net and hurls it towards the enemies - cast Web
Rythan throws down a small glass orb that shatters with a burst of smoke, obscuring all vision of her for a moment, when it clears she is gone, now hiding behind a wall 30 ft away - cast Misty Step
Rythan crouches into a runners stance then in a blur leaps into motion, running faster and faster until with a boom she breaks the speed of sound and a sonic boom ripples through the crowd of enemies - cast Shatter.
Rythan takes a moment to focus, the tempo of her song increasing and becoming erratic as she begins a complex dance of constant yet unpredictable motion - cast Blur
etc....etc...
You missed what is being asked. They don’t want magic, they want the Champion fighter to feel as powerful as a Wizard. In 4e all classes were perfectly balanced. I didn’t create a new system I stole from 4e.
You're still introducing an entirely new system to 5e that is mostly redundant with spellcasting. Any system that is added to make a Champion "like a Wizard" is effectively duplicating the spellcasting system for martials under a different name, that's essentially what 4e was : everyone got powers with different names but mostly did the same things and were limited use. 4e was excessively complicated and classes did not feel particularly distinct from each other which is why people stuck to Pathfinder & 3.5e instead.
I like it (because it nerfs casters in an intuitive and easy to play way, they can't frontload a bunch of their highest-level nukes anymore) with one caveat - you should be able to prepare more lower level spells in place of higher level ones. That would maintain the spirit of the nerf, while also giving you more options in cases where you get more mileage out of lower spell levels than higher ones.
For example - a 13th level wizard can't run around with Forcecage, Teleport, Simulacrum and Crown of Stars all prepped just in case anymore, they need to choose one. And that will likely mean coordinating with another 13th level caster in the party to try and cover what they can't. It means you are more likely to want a wizard and a sorcerer in the same party for instance. I see that as a design win.
You already have plenty of incentive to do that anyway between DCs and spell attacks. And now, casters who need neither thanks to careful spell selection don't have their layout crippled.