I like most of what this unearthed arcana is doing but wish that they would put more effort into all of the classes, i feel like the wizard got shit on for getting nothing unique. They don't get that many spells added to their list but are losing exclusivity on a lot of their spells. They should add more spells or give them more interesting class features as well. Giving practically all of the casters the ability to change their spells seems to make the classes that prepare spells pointless.
This entire UA is basically a middle finger to wizards as a class.
Because it brings other classes in line with their power level? Yeah okay.
I keep reading all these comments saying that wizards are overpowered compared to sorcerers and bards. Having played all three classes, I can confidently say that this simply isn't true. I have never felt underpowered as a sorcerer or bard compared to a wizard. They all have strengths and weaknesses.
Bards have expertise in skills that give their characters very strong out of combat presence and success, and in addition, have access to every spell list in the game with magical secrets. They are extremely powerful as it stands.
Sorcerers likewise have access to subtle casting, which on its own makes you immune to counterspell and allows you to cast mind-altering spells to manipulate people and there is no way to counter it. A simple seemingly innocent verbal suggestion can let you straight-up mind control enemies without them ever knowing you did it. This is what people were so afraid of with professor X and other telepaths that could just read people's minds and control their thoughts without anyone ever knowing it happened. This combined with access to quickening spells and other powerful action economy metamagic makes the sorcerer a supremely powerful and unique class.
I feel the wizard's unique ability IS in versatility. By default, you get access to about two times the spells of other arcane full casters (although you still need to abide by how many can be prepared per day). (Any more than that will cost you every penny you make in adventuring and is completely GM dependent.) And you can ritually cast spells without expending a slot.
By giving other arcane casters the ability to swap out spells with no cost other than a simple rest (which in downtime situations will allow you to re-write your entire spell lineup), I feel like you kind of neuter the one thing that makes wizards unique. Sure you only have access to 7 spells right now...but what does that matter if you suddenly have access to the entire list every time you sleep? You're the same as the wizard now, who can only prepare a certain number of spells each morning anyway and you're playing that guessing game for what spell will be relevant to this session just like them. While playing a wizard I usually only swap 1-2 spells out in the morning anyway. The rest of them are your go-to spells. The only difference is that now your bard or sorcerer takes slightly longer to prepare different spells than the wizard only they have access to all of them (without cost) from spell lists with a lot of overlap.
Wizards are also limited by their spellbook, so if you have a DM who doesn’t give out scrolls for whatever reason a wizard will be significantly LESS versatile than a bard or sorcerer. Without this UA you could argue that class was balanced around not scribing any spells, but with it a wizard is absolutely dependant on DM generosity to keep up.
Wizard learn two new spells every level, as opposed to any other learned caster gaining only 1 per level. This already gives them a massive advantage is number of spells available. Plus their permanently available ritual casting
Complaining about how the Wizard gets no features outside of it's spell casting is like complaning that all the barbarian's abilities relate to hitting things and taking hits. mechanically your class is the most spell casting focused class in the game. It goes wizards, sorcererers, Bards/clerics/druids, warlocks, Artificers,half-casters, third caster subclasses, non-casters.
Wizard learn two new spells every level, as opposed to any other learned caster gaining only 1 per level. This already gives them a massive advantage is number of spells available. Plus their permanently available ritual casting
Complaining about how the Wizard gets no features outside of it's spell casting is like complaning that all the barbarian's abilities relate to hitting things and taking hits. mechanically your class is the most spell casting focused class in the game. It goes wizards, sorcererers, Bards/clerics/druids, warlocks, Artificers,half-casters, third caster subclasses, non-casters.
You're correct, but only if the UA doesn't go through. What I was trying to express is that if the UA goes through their versatility is 2nd rate next to sorcerers and bards. It doesn't matter if you have 15 vs 25 spells prepared if you have access to the entire list (over 100) vs 44 spells (which is the only guaranteed number a wizard gets) with no cost other than a nap.
And there is greater versatility that wizards can entirely change up their spell list (Except cantirps) on a long rest to prepare for the day, versus this rule for bards and sorcerers who can change 1 spell, for another spell of equal or less power.
Sorcerer needed the most help when it comes to full casters and its apparent as they got a ton of options in the UA. Also the new subclasses for sorcerer are just better than the old ones. The additional spells known alone makes them better.
Sorcerer suffers with the lack of getting much of anything between 6th and 14th level. If you give them the option to swap out spells on a short or long rest then they become a lot better overall.
And there is greater versatility that wizards can entirely change up their spell list (Except cantirps) on a long rest to prepare for the day, versus this rule for bards and sorcerers who can change 1 spell, for another spell of equal or less power.
While there is a point to that, often you don't need to change your entire spell list. Instead you know you are facing a certain foe, or have a certain plan in mind, and only need a certain spell you might not had. So in play, it's almost as much versatility as prepared casters.
Ironically this change turn Wizards from one of the most versatility casters to one of the least versatile casters. Since they are now the only class that can't get access to any spell on their class spell list with a long rest.
Let me give you an example, let's say the party decides they want to solve a problem they are having by using Clairvoyance to spy on a meeting. Great, this spell is on the Bard, Cleric, Sorcerer and Wizard spell list.
Well without spell versatility only the Cleric could provide guaranteed access to this spell. The wizard could if they've managed to research the spell or found it somewhere, thus had it in their spell book. The Bard and Sorcerer could only if they took it as one of their primary spell.
With spell versatility, after the long rest The Cleric, Bard and Sorcerer can now all have guaranteed access to this spell. The wizard who was only second to the Cleric and Druid is now the weakest in terms of access to spells and if the Wizard does want to approach the versatility of the other casters ability to learn new spells, they need to spend a crazy amount of money.
Sorcerer needed the most help when it comes to full casters and its apparent as they got a ton of options in the UA. Also the new subclasses for sorcerer are just better than the old ones. The additional spells known alone makes them better.
Sorcerer suffers with the lack of getting much of anything between 6th and 14th level. If you give them the option to swap out spells on a short or long rest then they become a lot better overall.
If I had to grit my teeth and bear it, I'd accept Sorcerers gaining Spell Versatility purely because they do need "something". They are one (a couple) trick ponies but their trick (metamagic) is very good...but them having anemic spells known compared to literally every other full caster is still too big of a hit. I would prefer they get curated lists of solid spells with their Origin though, or just a boost to their spells known per level, over this.
Bards and Warlocks, though? They really don't need the help, especially bards.
Agreed....Bards really didn't need much of anything and the options they got were just too good I think.
Warlocks I think a new Pact is fair enough. I like the idea of adding Pacts to shake things up. The new pact isnt amazing but the new invocations are cool.
These wizard whines are better than the ones about wizards not having a healing option.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Sorcerer needed the most help when it comes to full casters and its apparent as they got a ton of options in the UA. Also the new subclasses for sorcerer are just better than the old ones. The additional spells known alone makes them better.
Sorcerer suffers with the lack of getting much of anything between 6th and 14th level. If you give them the option to swap out spells on a short or long rest then they become a lot better overall.
If I had to grit my teeth and bear it, I'd accept Sorcerers gaining Spell Versatility purely because they do need "something". They are one (a couple) trick ponies but their trick (metamagic) is very good...but them having anemic spells known compared to literally every other full caster is still too big of a hit. I would prefer they get curated lists of solid spells with their Origin though, or just a boost to their spells known per level, over this.
Bards and Warlocks, though? They really don't need the help, especially bards.
It's less that Warlocks need help and more that it's just nice to have additional options. Warlock is a class with significant roleplay element to it and prides itself on being customizable, so having more options to flavour that isn't unwelcome.
Much agree. More Pacts make sense to me for that. Makes more combos with the old patrons too which is cool. Any feature that will make the older subclasses different or more interesting I am all in for.
I'm fairly new to using D&D Beyond. I have been attempting to find a reason why the 2019 Class Feature Variant UA isn't in the character creator, specifically the ranger class variant (almost entirely new class in some respects, at least low lvl), as one of my players (before pandemic interruption) was using a ranger based on those rules and planning to go Horizon Walker at lvl 3. The game was physical, so it wasn't an issue to write it in on a character sheet.
Was hoping I could transfer his character into D&D Beyond to make our lives easier, but...
Is it there and I'm missing it?
Or has it not been added yet?
I've found various bits attempting to add parts of it as feats, but when I started trying to make a subclass I quickly realized I would have to homebrew a new class (which is not an option) in order to get rid of the standard ranger features - Some of the feats I mention also note this, essentially saying you just need to ignore the standard ranger features and add the necessary UA ones.
Not been added yet. The old user interface (character sheet) couldn’t handle all of the nested options properly. They just redesigned the character sheet, so now they are working on implementing the things that couldn’t work properly on the old sheet, CFVs being one of them (Spells of the Mark too).
Sorcerer needed the most help when it comes to full casters and its apparent as they got a ton of options in the UA. Also the new subclasses for sorcerer are just better than the old ones. The additional spells known alone makes them better.
Sorcerer suffers with the lack of getting much of anything between 6th and 14th level. If you give them the option to swap out spells on a short or long rest then they become a lot better overall.
If I had to grit my teeth and bear it, I'd accept Sorcerers gaining Spell Versatility purely because they do need "something". They are one (a couple) trick ponies but their trick (metamagic) is very good...but them having anemic spells known compared to literally every other full caster is still too big of a hit. I would prefer they get curated lists of solid spells with their Origin though, or just a boost to their spells known per level, over this.
Bards and Warlocks, though? They really don't need the help, especially bards.
I would agree with this, with one exception. The current mechanics of the Sorcerer class allow for you to exchange a single spell you know for any spell on the list of a level you can cast, each time you level. It's a pretty important thing for the class in terms of power progression, because you can exchange Burning Hands for Fireball when you get your 3rd level spell slots for the first time, instead of being stuck with Burning Hands when you're probably never going to cast it again now that you can cast Fireball instead. But that also presents a problem. To keep the power progression going, you end up getting forced into a specific stepping stone pattern for how you use that 1 retrain per level to replace specific spells with other similar but more powerful ones. It leaves you with very little room to experiment with other things and try out other tactics. If it doesn't pan out, you have now lost steam in the power progression race, and you can't get it back.
Actually, I guess there are 2 exceptions. At higher levels, most of the damage spells deal Fire, Radiant, or Necrotic damage. More recently a few Psychic damage spells have also appeared. That's kind of it -- other damage types simply don't exist at this high of a level. This presents a problem for the tailor-made spell lists. For example, the Storm Sorcerer currently would max out at 6th level, where they learn Chain Lightning. There are only 4 higher level spells that deal either Lightning or Thunder damage: Prismatic Spray if you happen to get the correct color of ray, Illusory Dragon if you choose Lightning, Prismatic Wall when an enemy willingly makes contact with the Yellow layer, and Storm of Vengeance on the initial cast and the 3rd following round. A Draconic Bloodline Sorcerer who chooses a Black Dragon for their ancestor (Acid damage) is in equal or worse shape, because their highest level spell dealing Acid damage is Vitriolic Sphere at 4th level. The higher level spell catalog needs some fleshing out before this kind of solution (which I think would be a much better alternative) can be workable.
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Like someone recently said: “Welcome to 5e, where every caster is simultaneously underpowered and overpowered depending on who you ask.”
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This entire UA is basically a middle finger to wizards as a class.
Because it brings other classes in line with their power level? Yeah okay.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/subraces/137390-weretouched-beasthide
https://www.dndbeyond.com/subraces/137424-weretouched-longtooth
https://www.dndbeyond.com/subraces/137431-weretouched-razorclaw
https://www.dndbeyond.com/subraces/137461-weretouched-swiftstride
https://www.dndbeyond.com/subraces/137646-weretouched-wildhunt
I keep reading all these comments saying that wizards are overpowered compared to sorcerers and bards. Having played all three classes, I can confidently say that this simply isn't true. I have never felt underpowered as a sorcerer or bard compared to a wizard. They all have strengths and weaknesses.
Bards have expertise in skills that give their characters very strong out of combat presence and success, and in addition, have access to every spell list in the game with magical secrets. They are extremely powerful as it stands.
Sorcerers likewise have access to subtle casting, which on its own makes you immune to counterspell and allows you to cast mind-altering spells to manipulate people and there is no way to counter it. A simple seemingly innocent verbal suggestion can let you straight-up mind control enemies without them ever knowing you did it. This is what people were so afraid of with professor X and other telepaths that could just read people's minds and control their thoughts without anyone ever knowing it happened. This combined with access to quickening spells and other powerful action economy metamagic makes the sorcerer a supremely powerful and unique class.
I feel the wizard's unique ability IS in versatility. By default, you get access to about two times the spells of other arcane full casters (although you still need to abide by how many can be prepared per day). (Any more than that will cost you every penny you make in adventuring and is completely GM dependent.) And you can ritually cast spells without expending a slot.
By giving other arcane casters the ability to swap out spells with no cost other than a simple rest (which in downtime situations will allow you to re-write your entire spell lineup), I feel like you kind of neuter the one thing that makes wizards unique. Sure you only have access to 7 spells right now...but what does that matter if you suddenly have access to the entire list every time you sleep? You're the same as the wizard now, who can only prepare a certain number of spells each morning anyway and you're playing that guessing game for what spell will be relevant to this session just like them. While playing a wizard I usually only swap 1-2 spells out in the morning anyway. The rest of them are your go-to spells. The only difference is that now your bard or sorcerer takes slightly longer to prepare different spells than the wizard only they have access to all of them (without cost) from spell lists with a lot of overlap.
Wizards are also limited by their spellbook, so if you have a DM who doesn’t give out scrolls for whatever reason a wizard will be significantly LESS versatile than a bard or sorcerer. Without this UA you could argue that class was balanced around not scribing any spells, but with it a wizard is absolutely dependant on DM generosity to keep up.
Wizard learn two new spells every level, as opposed to any other learned caster gaining only 1 per level. This already gives them a massive advantage is number of spells available. Plus their permanently available ritual casting
Complaining about how the Wizard gets no features outside of it's spell casting is like complaning that all the barbarian's abilities relate to hitting things and taking hits. mechanically your class is the most spell casting focused class in the game. It goes wizards, sorcererers, Bards/clerics/druids, warlocks, Artificers,half-casters, third caster subclasses, non-casters.
You're correct, but only if the UA doesn't go through. What I was trying to express is that if the UA goes through their versatility is 2nd rate next to sorcerers and bards. It doesn't matter if you have 15 vs 25 spells prepared if you have access to the entire list (over 100) vs 44 spells (which is the only guaranteed number a wizard gets) with no cost other than a nap.
And there is greater versatility that wizards can entirely change up their spell list (Except cantirps) on a long rest to prepare for the day, versus this rule for bards and sorcerers who can change 1 spell, for another spell of equal or less power.
Sorcerer needed the most help when it comes to full casters and its apparent as they got a ton of options in the UA. Also the new subclasses for sorcerer are just better than the old ones. The additional spells known alone makes them better.
Sorcerer suffers with the lack of getting much of anything between 6th and 14th level. If you give them the option to swap out spells on a short or long rest then they become a lot better overall.
While there is a point to that, often you don't need to change your entire spell list. Instead you know you are facing a certain foe, or have a certain plan in mind, and only need a certain spell you might not had. So in play, it's almost as much versatility as prepared casters.
Ironically this change turn Wizards from one of the most versatility casters to one of the least versatile casters. Since they are now the only class that can't get access to any spell on their class spell list with a long rest.
Let me give you an example, let's say the party decides they want to solve a problem they are having by using Clairvoyance to spy on a meeting. Great, this spell is on the Bard, Cleric, Sorcerer and Wizard spell list.
Well without spell versatility only the Cleric could provide guaranteed access to this spell. The wizard could if they've managed to research the spell or found it somewhere, thus had it in their spell book. The Bard and Sorcerer could only if they took it as one of their primary spell.
With spell versatility, after the long rest The Cleric, Bard and Sorcerer can now all have guaranteed access to this spell. The wizard who was only second to the Cleric and Druid is now the weakest in terms of access to spells and if the Wizard does want to approach the versatility of the other casters ability to learn new spells, they need to spend a crazy amount of money.
If I had to grit my teeth and bear it, I'd accept Sorcerers gaining Spell Versatility purely because they do need "something". They are one (a couple) trick ponies but their trick (metamagic) is very good...but them having anemic spells known compared to literally every other full caster is still too big of a hit. I would prefer they get curated lists of solid spells with their Origin though, or just a boost to their spells known per level, over this.
Bards and Warlocks, though? They really don't need the help, especially bards.
Agreed....Bards really didn't need much of anything and the options they got were just too good I think.
Warlocks I think a new Pact is fair enough. I like the idea of adding Pacts to shake things up. The new pact isnt amazing but the new invocations are cool.
These wizard whines are better than the ones about wizards not having a healing option.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Much agree. More Pacts make sense to me for that. Makes more combos with the old patrons too which is cool. Any feature that will make the older subclasses different or more interesting I am all in for.
Warlocks NEED this, with hardly 12-15 spells know at max lvl, the ability to change ONE spell per LR, is an absolute necessity.
Don't compare Warlocks with Bards please, Bards as always been the real winners.
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I'm fairly new to using D&D Beyond.
I have been attempting to find a reason why the 2019 Class Feature Variant UA isn't in the character creator, specifically the ranger class variant (almost entirely new class in some respects, at least low lvl), as one of my players (before pandemic interruption) was using a ranger based on those rules and planning to go Horizon Walker at lvl 3.
The game was physical, so it wasn't an issue to write it in on a character sheet.
Was hoping I could transfer his character into D&D Beyond to make our lives easier, but...
Is it there and I'm missing it?
Or has it not been added yet?
I've found various bits attempting to add parts of it as feats, but when I started trying to make a subclass I quickly realized I would have to homebrew a new class (which is not an option) in order to get rid of the standard ranger features - Some of the feats I mention also note this, essentially saying you just need to ignore the standard ranger features and add the necessary UA ones.
Which seems quite clumsy.
Not been added yet. The old user interface (character sheet) couldn’t handle all of the nested options properly. They just redesigned the character sheet, so now they are working on implementing the things that couldn’t work properly on the old sheet, CFVs being one of them (Spells of the Mark too).
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Implementing it has required re-writing pretty much the entirety of how DDB handles character features, so no, it's not in yet. (It should be soon, though)
Apparently I am not that good at searching forums.
To be fair to you it has been quite a while at this point.
I would agree with this, with one exception. The current mechanics of the Sorcerer class allow for you to exchange a single spell you know for any spell on the list of a level you can cast, each time you level. It's a pretty important thing for the class in terms of power progression, because you can exchange Burning Hands for Fireball when you get your 3rd level spell slots for the first time, instead of being stuck with Burning Hands when you're probably never going to cast it again now that you can cast Fireball instead. But that also presents a problem. To keep the power progression going, you end up getting forced into a specific stepping stone pattern for how you use that 1 retrain per level to replace specific spells with other similar but more powerful ones. It leaves you with very little room to experiment with other things and try out other tactics. If it doesn't pan out, you have now lost steam in the power progression race, and you can't get it back.
Actually, I guess there are 2 exceptions. At higher levels, most of the damage spells deal Fire, Radiant, or Necrotic damage. More recently a few Psychic damage spells have also appeared. That's kind of it -- other damage types simply don't exist at this high of a level. This presents a problem for the tailor-made spell lists. For example, the Storm Sorcerer currently would max out at 6th level, where they learn Chain Lightning. There are only 4 higher level spells that deal either Lightning or Thunder damage: Prismatic Spray if you happen to get the correct color of ray, Illusory Dragon if you choose Lightning, Prismatic Wall when an enemy willingly makes contact with the Yellow layer, and Storm of Vengeance on the initial cast and the 3rd following round. A Draconic Bloodline Sorcerer who chooses a Black Dragon for their ancestor (Acid damage) is in equal or worse shape, because their highest level spell dealing Acid damage is Vitriolic Sphere at 4th level. The higher level spell catalog needs some fleshing out before this kind of solution (which I think would be a much better alternative) can be workable.