Alright IamSposta, I admit a lot of signs point to the negative. However I am still holding out hope at least until the next UA. If they are still making the Psion/Mystic as a separate class that still uses spell slots then it would use a lot of these "psionic" spells as well, just in a different way. And hell, if I'm wrong we'll know over the next couple of UAs that they release. If we don't see a form of Psion (especially the Shaper... just give us the Shaper) then we riot in the survey and tell them to give us what we want.
As I heard once before, "Humans are great at rationalizing, terrible at ration." Or something like that. My point being I've been able to rationalize just about every UA in some form or another. The Variant Spellcasting for example. For Bards, writing up a new tune they dreamt up and forgetting the setup for that killer joke, Warlock patrons renegotiating contracts, Sorcerers mutating and evolving. This most recent one I have done similar things, but have more problems with overall. The Fighter looks fun but lacking. The Rogue feels as though it would be better served overall as a Monk, freeing up the Rogue for a more thought-stealing and mental manipulation subclass. The Wizard studying psionics and writing them in their books. Some counters could be made, the Psychic Warrior is too close to Eldritch Knight, the Soul Knife to Arcane Trickster. Some people might view the Astral Self Monk to be its Psionic subclass. The Wizard IS the Psion for this edition.
If I had my way, we would be gaining the Psion as a class, to be named whatever I don't really care, and it would be like a ranged version of the Monk. As Moriluvatar claims, the Ki points system works well for psionics, and rather than come up with all new spells and spell lists, they have a few abilities based on those points, can replicate the 'psionic spells' but better with additional effects and or no components, and having something that would be akin to Martial Arts, but ranged. Intelligence or Wisdom would be acceptable, but Intelligence feels better. Then, we would get subclasses, ideally from the same source.
Artificer: I actually have a conspiracy theory about this one here, please check it out!
Bard: One could argue that the Colleges of Glamour and Whispers fill the role, but I feel as though an empath-oriented subclass might be better suited. If that wouldn't happen, however, I'd have to go with Whispers.
Fighter: I think the Psychic Warrior is distinct enough from the Eldritch Knight, just needs a bit of a boost, and more Jedi. The only feature it is given that has real utility outside of combat is Telekinetic Hand, so perhaps adding a mind trick or something.
Monk: Worst case scenario, Astral Self could be viewed as psionics, perhaps changing the radiant or necrotic damage to psychic or force. Better scenario, the Soul Knife is changed from Rogue to Monk.
Ranger: Classic fighting of fire with fire. Monster Slayer is a broad version of this, and Ranger may not need a subclass for this, but I feel as though there's something to be done with Gloom Stalker's Umbral Sight, but with psionics.
Rogue: Rather than the Soul Knife, something having to do with minds, memories, and thoughts.
Sorcerer: Aberrant Mind is beautiful, just needs final tweaks. Maybe more. I'm a rando with an imagination, not a designer.
Warlock: The Great Old One has been here since the PHB.
Wizard: Here's a biggy. Without the Psion base class, it is far less appealing. With it, however, I rationalize it easily. First, the evolution of magic. Druids came first, connecting with the only thing they can, nature. Then, divine, the gods sharing their power for worship. Then the arcane casters come along, being smart enough to create the 'math' of magic. And finally, psionics, reaching such a deep understanding of magic that they no longer need the crutches of components or spells, relying solely on their intellect or force of will. This is how I would rationalize it. The Psions come along, manipulating magic in ways never before seen, and they study it. First, they craft rough copies of the effects Psions create, but they lack some traits of the true effects, and require components. A reasonable explanation to the spells like Ego Whip and Id Insinuation, don't you think? The next step, naturally, is technique, and there's where the subclass presented in the UA comes in.
This is my quick and dirty wish list, but if, as I fear we won't, we don't get a Psion class, then I will try to create it. Feedback is welcome and appreciated!
Tl;dr: This is where I hope 5e goes with psionics, and will take it there myself if I have to.
Psionics, as released in UA, are completely OP and unbalancing UNLESS they choose to release them officially in a sandboxed setting (like Eberron). Take, for example, a Psychic Warrior (3rd level) gets a d10 damage reduction on all attacks (for themself OR any of their friends that they can see). So a level 3 opponent who attacks this Psychic Warrior may melee strike at d6+3 on average. That means the Psychic warrior has a good chance of simply ignoring attacks from an EQUAL LEVEL opponent OR having any of his/her friends simply ignore the attack as well....and its a CLASS FEATURE, NOT A ONCE-PER-SHORT REST feature. Why would a player EVER want to intentionally choose a non-psionic race/class anymore?
Sorry....Psionics was always a cool way to do a non-arcane POWER thing in older editions, but it quickly unbalances the game towards Psionics. If this gets released, I certainly hope it is BANNED from Eberon AND Forgotten Realms. Keep it in its own sandbox to maintain balance. And I can't imagine that it will ever be allowed in AL...unless the sandbox is in place.
Now, to be fair, let the min/maxers have their fun, but unless there are some MAJOR MECHANICAL DISADVANTAGES to balance the psionicist out, then I'll simply disallow in my games.
I feel that’s fair and acceptable, though even if I didn’t you’re still entitled to the opinion. Make it setting specific feels like an acceptable boundary.
Psionics, as released in UA, are completely OP and unbalancing UNLESS they choose to release them officially in a sandboxed setting (like Eberron). Take, for example, a Psychic Warrior (3rd level) gets a d10 damage reduction on all attacks (for themself OR any of their friends that they can see). So a level 3 opponent who attacks this Psychic Warrior may melee strike at d6+3 on average. That means the Psychic warrior has a good chance of simply ignoring attacks from an EQUAL LEVEL opponent OR having any of his/her friends simply ignore the attack as well....and its a CLASS FEATURE, NOT A ONCE-PER-SHORT REST feature. Why would a player EVER want to intentionally choose a non-psionic race/class anymore?
Sorry....Psionics was always a cool way to do a non-arcane POWER thing in older editions, but it quickly unbalances the game towards Psionics. If this gets released, I certainly hope it is BANNED from Eberon AND Forgotten Realms. Keep it in its own sandbox to maintain balance. And I can't imagine that it will ever be allowed in AL...unless the sandbox is in place.
Now, to be fair, let the min/maxers have their fun, but unless there are some MAJOR MECHANICAL DISADVANTAGES to balance the psionicist out, then I'll simply disallow in my games.
I think you are giving the Augmented Defences ability far too much credit. It is super flavorful and cool, yes, but it is absolutely not OP. You can only use it 1 time in a round since it is a reaction to do so and it is a roll vs a flat number reduction. As a DM, if you are throwing 1 enemy at a time at your players at level 3 then you are not correctly balancing your campaign because there should at least be 4 other goblins harassing your players by then.
In fact, none of the current UA subclasses are even remotely unbalanced, if not slightly undertuned (besides maybe the Onomancer, but even they are situational and get shut down if their main ability is saved against).
Now, general psionics in previous editions and UAs... now THOSE were overpowered and there is a reason why the concept has to change edition by edition. Which is why I am okay with it being another sorce of magic so that Arcane, Nature, and Divine sources are not overshadowed. Outright banning something that they release will never happen, which is why we have already gone through so many UAs for psionics. They want their products bought and used by everyone, not thrown by the wayside by certain DMs.
One thing that keeps being used is Psionics in 5e just being another school of magic. I don’t want to be seen as the jerk that corrects simple grammatical errors so I’m sorry if this comes off that way. There are 8 schools of magic: Abjuration, Conjuration, Divination, Enchantment, Evocation, Illusion, Necromancy, and Transmutation. All of these ‘Psionic spells’ belong to one of those schools of magic. If any of you mean introducing a ninth school, Psionics, my bad. If we’re talking about the subclasses then they’re different, the Wizard’s being an Arcane Tradition. The only reason I feel the distinction is important is the overall implementation, any Wizard can take a spell, only Conjurers can’t have their concentration broken. Again, nothing but good intentions with this, don’t wanna be a jerk.
Alright IamSposta, I admit a lot of signs point to the negative. However I am still holding out hope at least until the next UA. If they are still making the Psion/Mystic as a separate class that still uses spell slots then it would use a lot of these "psionic" spells as well, just in a different way. And hell, if I'm wrong we'll know over the next couple of UAs that they release. If we don't see a form of Psion (especially the Shaper... just give us the Shaper) then we riot in the survey and tell them to give us what we want.
1) If they give us the shaper, they give us the rest. Kind of like: “Save the cheerleader, save the world.” 2) Never gonna happen.
3) We can riot all you like, but guess what. Yup, you guess it, it’s never gonna happen.
4) They are so dedicated to the simplicity and ease of use that Spell Slots provide because they are convinced that they will make more money that way. We will never gat any alternative to what is left of the Vancian system.
One thing that keeps being used is Psionics in 5e just being another school of magic....
Back in the older editions there were no subclasses, and there were no “Arcane Traditions” you were either a “Mage” (non-specialized caster with access to all 8 schools), or you were a “Specialist Wizard” (one who specializes in one of the 8 schools, and had limited access to some other schools, and absolutely no access to one school.) I think some of us are still mentally thinking Traditions=Schools. Also, in the PHB, every Tradition Ais linked to a School, so some might not even be aware there is a distinction.
Yes, the Psychic Warrior can ignore 1d10 damage from a single attack 1ce/Round. That averages to -5.5 damage/Round. That means they can ignore 1 single bolt (1d10damage)of Eldritch Blast/Round. By the time that Psychic Warrior’s d10 becomes a d12, the bog standard PHB Warlock is sending 3 of those bolts per Round. That doesn’t include any Eldritch Invocations buffing those Eldritch Blast bolts either.
Reach for the pitchfork and torch if you feel it necessary, but I’m not concerned.
Totally fair, I made the error until about a week ago. That’s mainly where I’m coming from. Whenever I get something wrong then later learn the correction, I spread it as much as I can. But even so the distinction isn’t world ending, so as long as I’ve tried I couldn’t care less if people still call it a school! Knowledge about this stuff is important, but the fun far more so.
Just make a psion class. If these subclasses are going to be published in addition to that, then fine. If this means psions aren't going to be a thing in 5e that's a huge disappointment. There's no way I'm going to buy a "psionics" supplement that doesn't include actual psions.
Alright IamSposta, I admit a lot of signs point to the negative. However I am still holding out hope at least until the next UA. If they are still making the Psion/Mystic as a separate class that still uses spell slots then it would use a lot of these "psionic" spells as well, just in a different way. And hell, if I'm wrong we'll know over the next couple of UAs that they release. If we don't see a form of Psion (especially the Shaper... just give us the Shaper) then we riot in the survey and tell them to give us what we want.
1) If they give us the shaper, they give us the rest. Kind of like: “Save the cheerleader, save the world.” 2) Never gonna happen.
3) We can riot all you like, but guess what. Yup, you guess it, it’s never gonna happen.
4) They are so dedicated to the simplicity and ease of use that Spell Slots provide because they are convinced that they will make more money that way. We will never gat any alternative to what is left of the Vancian system.
They listened to complaints about a lot of the UAs. I think when it came to the Artificer it was the very first class they released in this new edition and was too far along in the pipeline for them to make any crazy changes. Also, having read it over and tested it in a couple scenarios it isn't as bad as I originally thought. Maybe a little bit bland in comparison to some of the homebrews that I've seen, but combined with the Volvo's item crafting rules it is actually pretty effective. I mean... we can make a high fantasy Mandalorian in DnD now and that is rather exciting
There is a big enough uproar about us getting a Psion/Mystic class that they would be insane not to listen (go look at the facebook post for this UA... last time I checked it was mostly people complaining about saying goodbye to the Mystic). However, this isn't really something we can debate... it's more of a wait and see kind of thing.
I'm still gonna bet we are just at the precipice of multiple Psionic UAs coming out over the next couple months. The question is... what will we be getting?
I appreciate that. Just this morning I wrote about a Psionic Specialist/School (can’t remember which) as a shorthand in an email I sent to someone else who played back in the day. I knew that telling him “the new version of the 5e Psionicist was now just another Specialist Wizard” would be more emotionally impactful and convey more information than I will in this entire post. And you are correct, specificity of language has been proven to prevent problems.
I also generally agree with what you wrote about some of the Subclasses, but not entirely. I think our opinions about both the Fighter and the Rogue are in line with each other’s. Now that you mention it, the Archivist potentially having been pulled to become their PsiSub makes sense. I agree that the Soul Knife makes more sense for the Monk, but Astral Self might just be it and that’s cool too. Maybe it’ll be something else entirely. For the Bard/Paladin/Ranger/Barbarian/Druid/Cleric I have neither ideas nor opinions on at the moment.
The Warlock got a new Sub in the same UA that included the Aberrant Mind and a copy of the Mind Sliver PsiSpell. If they incorporate these or any other Sorcerer or Warlock PsiSubs in the Dark Sun setting then they better write some damned good lore based reasons or I simply cannot accepted it on the basis that there would have been no reason for the planet to get nuked. Any other setting would be fine by me.
If this Wizard PsiSub is introduced in any setting besides Dark Sun I have no problem with it. But if Dark Sun does not include both Defiler and Preserver subs for the Wizard (I would also accept Preserver as a Druid) and it’s own dedicated Psionic non-Vancian caster without writing one hell of a good story to justify it WotC will simply never get my money for that product. I’ll also not play in their setting in that case, nor will I DM it without changing it to include those character options.
@rossfenwick,
I couldn’t agree more. Well, let me amend that. I will not buy a Dark Sun supplement that does not include both the Defiler and Preserver as non-Psi Wizard Subclasses (Preserver as a Druid Sub would be fine too), a dedicated Psion/Mystic Class with its own Subclasses, and a PC Thri-kreen Race.
Any other Campaign Setting I might still grab a copy.
@Davavor,
I don’t think the new Artificer is bad at all. In fact I have never played one in 5e, so I can have no actual opinions about the quality of the class other than from what I have heard. I don’t like it because it’s just another caster. The one thing I wanted most from both the Artificer and the Psion was magic or magic-like powers that were non-Vancian. It has become clear to me that that is exactly what I can expect to never get.
I have personally decided to boycott Facebook (and social media in general for that matter) so I have in fact not seen, nor can I see anything on Facebook. If you think complaining will help though I’m onboard to give it a shot. I just hope they’re reading this forum though because I’m not sure they will listen to a random guy writing them letters via email/snail mail will help much unless my survey feedback happens to stand out somehow.
Yes, I believe we will end up with UAs including entirely new PsiSubs for at least the PHB Classes before the year is out.
The quick summary, he had a chance to talk with Jeremy Crawford and asked him about new classes. He says that Crawford said that the only reason we got the Artificer at all was because of how tied to Eberron it is; Eberron without Artificers isn’t Eberron. Then said that the only way we’ll get new Classes is if we get a setting that requires it. Means if we want the Mystic, we need Dark Sun.
The quick summary, he had a chance to talk with Jeremy Crawford and asked him about new classes. He says that Crawford said that the only reason we got the Artificer at all was because of how tied to Eberron it is; Eberron without Artificers isn’t Eberron. Then said that the only way we’ll get new Classes is if we get a setting that requires it. Means if we want the Mystic, we need Dark Sun.
Dark Sun with a full complement of psionic subclasses AND a separate psionic class would be awesome. If they don't do a full psionic class though, it will feel like one of the biggest missteps they've made with what has otherwise been a really great edition of D&D. Like it or not, psionics have been their own thing in D&D for decades.
Mystic had great flavor. It just needed to be toned back in versatility and less front-loaded. The most common complaint I saw was about their versatility - you can do what X class does and also do everything else, and that's not fun for any of the players or the DM. Sure, and the solution is to make Mystics do less... not to delete them completely.
Streamlined disciplines. Make them more restrictive between the Orders, rebalance some abilities to make them competitive in the late game. I.e. an Immortal Order Mystic is restricted to certain disciplines by that choice. That would also help with the excessive flipping through rules that slows down gameplay with UA Mystic.
Rules explanation that says psionics are treated like magic wherever it would matter. "Psionics are as different from arcane magic as arcane magic is from the divine, but the underlying disruption in reality created by magic can still interfere with their effects." Something like that. Then you don't have a mystic effortlessly porting through a forcecage or a creature with non-magical damage immunity laughing off the effects of a psychic crush.
Time doesn't grow on trees and a business still needs to prioritize what they do, but they've had years to work on feedback.
I agree it seems a lot of people want some kind of Psion class. But unless we get a Dark Sun supplement, these subclasses are all we're gonna get. 86% sure.
As you say, not gonna happen without a Dark Sun supplement. With that said, they would have to be absolute FOOLS to not come out with a Dark Sun book at some point during 5e's lifetime...
As you say, not gonna happen without a Dark Sun supplement. With that said, they would have to be absolute FOOLS to not come out with a Dark Sun book at some point during 5e's lifetime...
I’m not holding my breath. If they do Dark Sun they have to do a Psion/Mystic/Psionicist Class. They don’t want to do a dedicated PsiClass. If that’s all it takes to make sure they don’t have to do what they don’t want to do....
Alright IamSposta, I admit a lot of signs point to the negative. However I am still holding out hope at least until the next UA. If they are still making the Psion/Mystic as a separate class that still uses spell slots then it would use a lot of these "psionic" spells as well, just in a different way. And hell, if I'm wrong we'll know over the next couple of UAs that they release. If we don't see a form of Psion (especially the Shaper... just give us the Shaper) then we riot in the survey and tell them to give us what we want.
As I heard once before, "Humans are great at rationalizing, terrible at ration." Or something like that. My point being I've been able to rationalize just about every UA in some form or another. The Variant Spellcasting for example. For Bards, writing up a new tune they dreamt up and forgetting the setup for that killer joke, Warlock patrons renegotiating contracts, Sorcerers mutating and evolving. This most recent one I have done similar things, but have more problems with overall. The Fighter looks fun but lacking. The Rogue feels as though it would be better served overall as a Monk, freeing up the Rogue for a more thought-stealing and mental manipulation subclass. The Wizard studying psionics and writing them in their books. Some counters could be made, the Psychic Warrior is too close to Eldritch Knight, the Soul Knife to Arcane Trickster. Some people might view the Astral Self Monk to be its Psionic subclass. The Wizard IS the Psion for this edition.
If I had my way, we would be gaining the Psion as a class, to be named whatever I don't really care, and it would be like a ranged version of the Monk. As Moriluvatar claims, the Ki points system works well for psionics, and rather than come up with all new spells and spell lists, they have a few abilities based on those points, can replicate the 'psionic spells' but better with additional effects and or no components, and having something that would be akin to Martial Arts, but ranged. Intelligence or Wisdom would be acceptable, but Intelligence feels better. Then, we would get subclasses, ideally from the same source.
Artificer: I actually have a conspiracy theory about this one here, please check it out!
Bard: One could argue that the Colleges of Glamour and Whispers fill the role, but I feel as though an empath-oriented subclass might be better suited. If that wouldn't happen, however, I'd have to go with Whispers.
Fighter: I think the Psychic Warrior is distinct enough from the Eldritch Knight, just needs a bit of a boost, and more Jedi. The only feature it is given that has real utility outside of combat is Telekinetic Hand, so perhaps adding a mind trick or something.
Monk: Worst case scenario, Astral Self could be viewed as psionics, perhaps changing the radiant or necrotic damage to psychic or force. Better scenario, the Soul Knife is changed from Rogue to Monk.
Ranger: Classic fighting of fire with fire. Monster Slayer is a broad version of this, and Ranger may not need a subclass for this, but I feel as though there's something to be done with Gloom Stalker's Umbral Sight, but with psionics.
Rogue: Rather than the Soul Knife, something having to do with minds, memories, and thoughts.
Sorcerer: Aberrant Mind is beautiful, just needs final tweaks. Maybe more. I'm a rando with an imagination, not a designer.
Warlock: The Great Old One has been here since the PHB.
Wizard: Here's a biggy. Without the Psion base class, it is far less appealing. With it, however, I rationalize it easily. First, the evolution of magic. Druids came first, connecting with the only thing they can, nature. Then, divine, the gods sharing their power for worship. Then the arcane casters come along, being smart enough to create the 'math' of magic. And finally, psionics, reaching such a deep understanding of magic that they no longer need the crutches of components or spells, relying solely on their intellect or force of will. This is how I would rationalize it. The Psions come along, manipulating magic in ways never before seen, and they study it. First, they craft rough copies of the effects Psions create, but they lack some traits of the true effects, and require components. A reasonable explanation to the spells like Ego Whip and Id Insinuation, don't you think? The next step, naturally, is technique, and there's where the subclass presented in the UA comes in.
This is my quick and dirty wish list, but if, as I fear we won't, we don't get a Psion class, then I will try to create it. Feedback is welcome and appreciated!
Tl;dr: This is where I hope 5e goes with psionics, and will take it there myself if I have to.
Psionics, as released in UA, are completely OP and unbalancing UNLESS they choose to release them officially in a sandboxed setting (like Eberron). Take, for example, a Psychic Warrior (3rd level) gets a d10 damage reduction on all attacks (for themself OR any of their friends that they can see). So a level 3 opponent who attacks this Psychic Warrior may melee strike at d6+3 on average. That means the Psychic warrior has a good chance of simply ignoring attacks from an EQUAL LEVEL opponent OR having any of his/her friends simply ignore the attack as well....and its a CLASS FEATURE, NOT A ONCE-PER-SHORT REST feature. Why would a player EVER want to intentionally choose a non-psionic race/class anymore?
Sorry....Psionics was always a cool way to do a non-arcane POWER thing in older editions, but it quickly unbalances the game towards Psionics. If this gets released, I certainly hope it is BANNED from Eberon AND Forgotten Realms. Keep it in its own sandbox to maintain balance. And I can't imagine that it will ever be allowed in AL...unless the sandbox is in place.
Now, to be fair, let the min/maxers have their fun, but unless there are some MAJOR MECHANICAL DISADVANTAGES to balance the psionicist out, then I'll simply disallow in my games.
I feel that’s fair and acceptable, though even if I didn’t you’re still entitled to the opinion. Make it setting specific feels like an acceptable boundary.
I think you are giving the Augmented Defences ability far too much credit. It is super flavorful and cool, yes, but it is absolutely not OP. You can only use it 1 time in a round since it is a reaction to do so and it is a roll vs a flat number reduction. As a DM, if you are throwing 1 enemy at a time at your players at level 3 then you are not correctly balancing your campaign because there should at least be 4 other goblins harassing your players by then.
In fact, none of the current UA subclasses are even remotely unbalanced, if not slightly undertuned (besides maybe the Onomancer, but even they are situational and get shut down if their main ability is saved against).
Now, general psionics in previous editions and UAs... now THOSE were overpowered and there is a reason why the concept has to change edition by edition. Which is why I am okay with it being another sorce of magic so that Arcane, Nature, and Divine sources are not overshadowed. Outright banning something that they release will never happen, which is why we have already gone through so many UAs for psionics. They want their products bought and used by everyone, not thrown by the wayside by certain DMs.
One thing that keeps being used is Psionics in 5e just being another school of magic. I don’t want to be seen as the jerk that corrects simple grammatical errors so I’m sorry if this comes off that way. There are 8 schools of magic: Abjuration, Conjuration, Divination, Enchantment, Evocation, Illusion, Necromancy, and Transmutation. All of these ‘Psionic spells’ belong to one of those schools of magic. If any of you mean introducing a ninth school, Psionics, my bad. If we’re talking about the subclasses then they’re different, the Wizard’s being an Arcane Tradition. The only reason I feel the distinction is important is the overall implementation, any Wizard can take a spell, only Conjurers can’t have their concentration broken. Again, nothing but good intentions with this, don’t wanna be a jerk.
If Dark Sun comes out and they say Sorcerers exist there I will be even more disappointed.
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1) If they give us the shaper, they give us the rest. Kind of like: “Save the cheerleader, save the world.”
2) Never gonna happen.
3) We can riot all you like, but guess what.
Yup, you guess it, it’s never gonna happen.
4) They are so dedicated to the simplicity and ease of use that Spell Slots provide because they are convinced that they will make more money that way. We will never gat any alternative to what is left of the Vancian system.
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Back in the older editions there were no subclasses, and there were no “Arcane Traditions” you were either a “Mage” (non-specialized caster with access to all 8 schools), or you were a “Specialist Wizard” (one who specializes in one of the 8 schools, and had limited access to some other schools, and absolutely no access to one school.) I think some of us are still mentally thinking Traditions=Schools. Also, in the PHB, every Tradition Ais linked to a School, so some might not even be aware there is a distinction.
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Adrian,
Yes, the Psychic Warrior can ignore 1d10 damage from a single attack 1ce/Round. That averages to -5.5 damage/Round. That means they can ignore 1 single bolt (1d10damage)of Eldritch Blast/Round. By the time that Psychic Warrior’s d10 becomes a d12, the bog standard PHB Warlock is sending 3 of those bolts per Round. That doesn’t include any Eldritch Invocations buffing those Eldritch Blast bolts either.
Reach for the pitchfork and torch if you feel it necessary, but I’m not concerned.
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Totally fair, I made the error until about a week ago. That’s mainly where I’m coming from. Whenever I get something wrong then later learn the correction, I spread it as much as I can. But even so the distinction isn’t world ending, so as long as I’ve tried I couldn’t care less if people still call it a school! Knowledge about this stuff is important, but the fun far more so.
Just make a psion class. If these subclasses are going to be published in addition to that, then fine. If this means psions aren't going to be a thing in 5e that's a huge disappointment. There's no way I'm going to buy a "psionics" supplement that doesn't include actual psions.
They listened to complaints about a lot of the UAs. I think when it came to the Artificer it was the very first class they released in this new edition and was too far along in the pipeline for them to make any crazy changes. Also, having read it over and tested it in a couple scenarios it isn't as bad as I originally thought. Maybe a little bit bland in comparison to some of the homebrews that I've seen, but combined with the Volvo's item crafting rules it is actually pretty effective. I mean... we can make a high fantasy Mandalorian in DnD now and that is rather exciting
There is a big enough uproar about us getting a Psion/Mystic class that they would be insane not to listen (go look at the facebook post for this UA... last time I checked it was mostly people complaining about saying goodbye to the Mystic). However, this isn't really something we can debate... it's more of a wait and see kind of thing.
I'm still gonna bet we are just at the precipice of multiple Psionic UAs coming out over the next couple months. The question is... what will we be getting?
@Jlwolf2,
I appreciate that. Just this morning I wrote about a Psionic Specialist/School (can’t remember which) as a shorthand in an email I sent to someone else who played back in the day. I knew that telling him “the new version of the 5e Psionicist was now just another Specialist Wizard” would be more emotionally impactful and convey more information than I will in this entire post. And you are correct, specificity of language has been proven to prevent problems.
I also generally agree with what you wrote about some of the Subclasses, but not entirely. I think our opinions about both the Fighter and the Rogue are in line with each other’s. Now that you mention it, the Archivist potentially having been pulled to become their PsiSub makes sense. I agree that the Soul Knife makes more sense for the Monk, but Astral Self might just be it and that’s cool too. Maybe it’ll be something else entirely. For the Bard/Paladin/Ranger/Barbarian/Druid/Cleric I have neither ideas nor opinions on at the moment.
The Warlock got a new Sub in the same UA that included the Aberrant Mind and a copy of the Mind Sliver PsiSpell. If they incorporate these or any other Sorcerer or Warlock PsiSubs in the Dark Sun setting then they better write some damned good lore based reasons or I simply cannot accepted it on the basis that there would have been no reason for the planet to get nuked. Any other setting would be fine by me.
If this Wizard PsiSub is introduced in any setting besides Dark Sun I have no problem with it. But if Dark Sun does not include both Defiler and Preserver subs for the Wizard (I would also accept Preserver as a Druid) and it’s own dedicated Psionic non-Vancian caster without writing one hell of a good story to justify it WotC will simply never get my money for that product. I’ll also not play in their setting in that case, nor will I DM it without changing it to include those character options.
@rossfenwick,
I couldn’t agree more. Well, let me amend that. I will not buy a Dark Sun supplement that does not include both the Defiler and Preserver as non-Psi Wizard Subclasses (Preserver as a Druid Sub would be fine too), a dedicated Psion/Mystic Class with its own Subclasses, and a PC Thri-kreen Race.
Any other Campaign Setting I might still grab a copy.
@Davavor,
I don’t think the new Artificer is bad at all. In fact I have never played one in 5e, so I can have no actual opinions about the quality of the class other than from what I have heard. I don’t like it because it’s just another caster. The one thing I wanted most from both the Artificer and the Psion was magic or magic-like powers that were non-Vancian. It has become clear to me that that is exactly what I can expect to never get.
I have personally decided to boycott Facebook (and social media in general for that matter) so I have in fact not seen, nor can I see anything on Facebook. If you think complaining will help though I’m onboard to give it a shot. I just hope they’re reading this forum though because I’m not sure they will listen to a random guy writing them letters via email/snail mail will help much unless my survey feedback happens to stand out somehow.
Yes, I believe we will end up with UAs including entirely new PsiSubs for at least the PHB Classes before the year is out.
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Just found this https://youtu.be/60G8tYTq7Kk
The quick summary, he had a chance to talk with Jeremy Crawford and asked him about new classes. He says that Crawford said that the only reason we got the Artificer at all was because of how tied to Eberron it is; Eberron without Artificers isn’t Eberron. Then said that the only way we’ll get new Classes is if we get a setting that requires it. Means if we want the Mystic, we need Dark Sun.
Makes sense
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Dark Sun with a full complement of psionic subclasses AND a separate psionic class would be awesome. If they don't do a full psionic class though, it will feel like one of the biggest missteps they've made with what has otherwise been a really great edition of D&D. Like it or not, psionics have been their own thing in D&D for decades.
Mystic had great flavor. It just needed to be toned back in versatility and less front-loaded. The most common complaint I saw was about their versatility - you can do what X class does and also do everything else, and that's not fun for any of the players or the DM. Sure, and the solution is to make Mystics do less... not to delete them completely.
Time doesn't grow on trees and a business still needs to prioritize what they do, but they've had years to work on feedback.
I agree it seems a lot of people want some kind of Psion class. But unless we get a Dark Sun supplement, these subclasses are all we're gonna get. 86% sure.
As you say, not gonna happen without a Dark Sun supplement. With that said, they would have to be absolute FOOLS to not come out with a Dark Sun book at some point during 5e's lifetime...
I’m not holding my breath. If they do Dark Sun they have to do a Psion/Mystic/Psionicist Class. They don’t want to do a dedicated PsiClass. If that’s all it takes to make sure they don’t have to do what they don’t want to do....
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