Too crowded. People would probably get irritated with all of those nearly identical subclasses. A ‘Mancer subclass with the option to pick an element/energy type (fire, poison, etc.) and each gets the same benefits to their respective element/energy type and a table with the different additional spells listed would probably be better received.
Or maybe not. People complain if they don’t do all the options as subclasses. People complain if all the subclasses are too similar. People complain that it’s “too complicated” to have one big subclass with all the little options nested within. They can’t win no matter what they do.
Check out the unearthed arcana page, where they finally added the Fighter, Rogue, Wizard psionic UA to the list of the UA, and have 2 surveys (took them already), and say they are coming out with the next UA soon!
What will it be?
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While it could be cool... how niche can one genuinely expect them to get?
I could just hear it now: half of the internet would be screaming “That’s stupid, why did you do that?!?” Half would be screaming “Why don’t I have a Steam Sorcerer now?!?” Half the inter net would be screaming for a Mud subclass for everything, half would be screaming it should have never been done with the Sorcerer. Half of the internet would be screaming that it underpowered and situational because “there’s no Mud in the dessert or on a ship” or some such other nonsense (half of that half would be screaming that they should have made it to work in the dessert so it’s not so situational, and the other half would be screaming that that’s a dumb idea), half the internet would be screaming how OP it is, and nobody would be listening.
Crap, I’m exhausted just thinking about it. Imagine how the design team at WotC must feel.... That’s their life...!
Check out the unearthed arcana page, where they finally added the Fighter, Rogue, Wizard psionic UA to the list of the UA, and have 2 surveys (took them already), and say they are coming out with the next UA soon!
Too crowded. People would probably get irritated with all of those nearly identical subclasses. A ‘Mancer subclass with the option to pick an element/energy type (fire, poison, etc.) and each gets the same benefits to their respective element/energy type and a table with the different additional spells listed would probably be better received.
Or maybe not. People complain if they don’t do all the options as subclasses. People complain if all the subclasses are too similar. People complain that it’s “too complicated” to have one big subclass with all the little options nested within. They can’t win no matter what they do.
Agreed. I see the official subclasses as being 'core design archetypes' that should then be used by a DM and player to tweak into their ideal character. More of a Guideline than a hard rule, having a ton of different subclasses that are just slight variations of each other feels a bit too much like a video game to me. That's why my first thought would be to reskin an existing subclass (Draconic Sorcerer for their elemental affinity) or Storm Sorcerer (for their unique approach to a single concept) or the Aberrant Mind for their unique approach to spell list and Sorcery Point spell casting.
Creating a new official subclass, to me, is more like trying to create something that has no near analog and is beyond the realm of reskinning. Something that brings a truly new thing to the table.
For elemental damage the Draconic sorcerer is good enough, but there is an interesting question there: Terramancer, Hydromancer. These don't have a set damage type. They are more about manipulating the battle field. What would their subclass look like, or what could you reskin
Check out the unearthed arcana page, where they finally added the Fighter, Rogue, Wizard psionic UA to the list of the UA, and have 2 surveys (took them already), and say they are coming out with the next UA soon!
Those are great questions! For starters, I think they would probably do magical bludgeoning damage instead of an energy type of course. Obviously abilities to reshape the world, but also ways for their allies to take advantage of it like water walking, water breathing, climb/burrow/swim speeds, etc. Heck, I think we just found a reason for LeviRocks’ Mudmancer!
For elemental damage the Draconic sorcerer is good enough, but there is an interesting question there: Terramancer, Hydromancer. These don't have a set damage type. They are more about manipulating the battle field. What would their subclass look like, or what could you reskin
They use Bludgeoning. I thought about it earlier when I was considering what a Terramancer damage type would be.
But you make an excellent point, that sort of focus, manipulating the terrain of the battlefield directly, does not really have any direct analogue and would seem to me a fairly strong candidate for a subclass. In fact the Pyromancer might be able to fall backward into the terramancer.
If the Terramancer was sprouting pillars of rock from the ground, the Pyromancer might be doing the same with pillars of flame. So Kudos to you for really bringing something new to the table.
I think a "Mud Mind Sorcerer" would possibly ignore difficult terrain, throw globs of sticky mud at people, and turn into mud to kind of become a melee mud monster creature, almost like wild shape. I think the pyromancer would be fine as the Phoenix sorcerer, but gaining additional spells.
Not really any serious suggestions, just spitballing.
I hope the next UA has Barbarian, Druid, and Sorcerer subclasses, or is an updated Class Feature Variants pdf.
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Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Too crowded. People would probably get irritated with all of those nearly identical subclasses. A ‘Mancer subclass with the option to pick an element/energy type (fire, poison, etc.) and each gets the same benefits to their respective element/energy type and a table with the different additional spells listed would probably be better received.
Or maybe not. People complain if they don’t do all the options as subclasses. People complain if all the subclasses are too similar. People complain that it’s “too complicated” to have one big subclass with all the little options nested within. They can’t win no matter what they do.
You cannot content everyone, that just how it is.
But giving people the options or tools to do it themselfs (the big UA Swapping Features for existing classes), is a good basis.
Honestly i think that they should focus on giving new or more options via Feature Swaps to the existing classes and subclasses, than adding another layer of obscure subclasses.
But thats my opinion
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"Normality is but an Illusion, Whats normal to the Spider, is only madness for the Fly"
Maybe the terrain altering sorcerer could be worked into one subclass, something with its essence tied to the earth/planet itself and not merely elemental earth. It could bend the plants and stone to its will to create great barriers and dense jungles... Something like "Fertile Soul" or "Biome-Born", maybe? It could even incorporate some aspects of druid, much like favored soul does with cleric. It could learn "Thorn Whip" and "Mold Earth" naturally, and could have a class feature that increases the duration/strength of spells like Earthbind and Spike Growth.. Or maybe it could just outright make spells that do bludgeoning/piercing/slashing damage ignore resistance?
I could see it being a nice compromise between a geomancer and a terrain sorcerer while also having unique flavor that isn't solely based on elemental attacks and manipulation.
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It's ok Ranger, you'll always be cool to me.. Unless druid gets another use for its wild shape charges.
Mud works. Sorcerer, Druid, whichever you prefer. (I prefer Sorcerer, but it’s your idea, do whatever you prefer.) You should write it up. Maybe give them Mold Earth and Shape Water as bonus cantrips. You could write a custom Investiture of Mud spell for them too. If you go Druid you could write a mud elemental for them to shift into. If you go Sorcerer you could give them a mud Mud Mephit as a unique familiar. Lots of battlefield control stuff too. That sounds like a lot of fun!
Maybe the terrain altering sorcerer could be worked into one subclass, something with its essence tied to the earth/planet itself and not merely elemental earth. It could bend the plants and stone to its will to create great barriers and dense jungles... Something like "Fertile Soul" or "Biome-Born", maybe? It could even incorporate some aspects of druid, much like favored soul does with cleric. It could learn "Thorn Whip" and "Mold Earth" naturally, and could have a class feature that increases the duration/strength of spells like Earthbind and Spike Growth.. Or maybe it could just outright make spells that do bludgeoning/piercing/slashing damage ignore resistance?
I could see it being a nice compromise between a geomancer and a terrain sorcerer while also having unique flavor that isn't solely based on elemental attacks and manipulation.
Wow, those are some great ideas! I hope someone over at WotC is paying attention to this thread.
Too crowded. People would probably get irritated with all of those nearly identical subclasses. A ‘Mancer subclass with the option to pick an element/energy type (fire, poison, etc.) and each gets the same benefits to their respective element/energy type and a table with the different additional spells listed would probably be better received.
Or maybe not. People complain if they don’t do all the options as subclasses. People complain if all the subclasses are too similar. People complain that it’s “too complicated” to have one big subclass with all the little options nested within. They can’t win no matter what they do.
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I agree, though I think a mud sorcerer would be cool, at most we'll be getting one sorcerer subclass per 4 elements.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Update, the new UA is coming out soon!
Check out the unearthed arcana page, where they finally added the Fighter, Rogue, Wizard psionic UA to the list of the UA, and have 2 surveys (took them already), and say they are coming out with the next UA soon!
What will it be?
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
While it could be cool... how niche can one genuinely expect them to get?
I could just hear it now: half of the internet would be screaming “That’s stupid, why did you do that?!?” Half would be screaming “Why don’t I have a Steam Sorcerer now?!?” Half the inter net would be screaming for a Mud subclass for everything, half would be screaming it should have never been done with the Sorcerer. Half of the internet would be screaming that it underpowered and situational because “there’s no Mud in the dessert or on a ship” or some such other nonsense (half of that half would be screaming that they should have made it to work in the dessert so it’s not so situational, and the other half would be screaming that that’s a dumb idea), half the internet would be screaming how OP it is, and nobody would be listening.
Crap, I’m exhausted just thinking about it. Imagine how the design team at WotC must feel.... That’s their life...!
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Two surveys? Link me!
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Agreed. I see the official subclasses as being 'core design archetypes' that should then be used by a DM and player to tweak into their ideal character. More of a Guideline than a hard rule, having a ton of different subclasses that are just slight variations of each other feels a bit too much like a video game to me. That's why my first thought would be to reskin an existing subclass (Draconic Sorcerer for their elemental affinity) or Storm Sorcerer (for their unique approach to a single concept) or the Aberrant Mind for their unique approach to spell list and Sorcery Point spell casting.
Creating a new official subclass, to me, is more like trying to create something that has no near analog and is beyond the realm of reskinning. Something that brings a truly new thing to the table.
EDIT: Here ya go
https://dnd.wizards.com/articles/unearthed-arcana/unearthed-arcana-fighter-rogue-and-wizard
For elemental damage the Draconic sorcerer is good enough, but there is an interesting question there: Terramancer, Hydromancer. These don't have a set damage type. They are more about manipulating the battle field. What would their subclass look like, or what could you reskin
Guytza,
I agree with you. And thank you for the links!
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https://dnd.wizards.com/articles/unearthed-arcana/unearthed-arcana-fighter-rogue-and-wizard
But only the one survey is actually live, the Class Variants one is closed.
Zoken,
Those are great questions! For starters, I think they would probably do magical bludgeoning damage instead of an energy type of course. Obviously abilities to reshape the world, but also ways for their allies to take advantage of it like water walking, water breathing, climb/burrow/swim speeds, etc. Heck, I think we just found a reason for LeviRocks’ Mudmancer!
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They use Bludgeoning. I thought about it earlier when I was considering what a Terramancer damage type would be.
But you make an excellent point, that sort of focus, manipulating the terrain of the battlefield directly, does not really have any direct analogue and would seem to me a fairly strong candidate for a subclass. In fact the Pyromancer might be able to fall backward into the terramancer.
If the Terramancer was sprouting pillars of rock from the ground, the Pyromancer might be doing the same with pillars of flame. So Kudos to you for really bringing something new to the table.
I think a "Mud Mind Sorcerer" would possibly ignore difficult terrain, throw globs of sticky mud at people, and turn into mud to kind of become a melee mud monster creature, almost like wild shape. I think the pyromancer would be fine as the Phoenix sorcerer, but gaining additional spells.
Not really any serious suggestions, just spitballing.
I hope the next UA has Barbarian, Druid, and Sorcerer subclasses, or is an updated Class Feature Variants pdf.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
I guess we’ll find out what’s going on soon enough.
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You cannot content everyone, that just how it is.
But giving people the options or tools to do it themselfs (the big UA Swapping Features for existing classes), is a good basis.
Honestly i think that they should focus on giving new or more options via Feature Swaps to the existing classes and subclasses, than adding another layer of obscure subclasses.
But thats my opinion
"Normality is but an Illusion, Whats normal to the Spider, is only madness for the Fly"
Kain de Frostberg- Dark Knight - (Vengeance Pal3/ Hexblade 9), Port Mourn
Kain de Draakberg-Dark Knight lvl8-Avergreen(DitA)
I dunno, that mudmancer is starting to seem more and more interesting.
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Maybe the terrain altering sorcerer could be worked into one subclass, something with its essence tied to the earth/planet itself and not merely elemental earth. It could bend the plants and stone to its will to create great barriers and dense jungles... Something like "Fertile Soul" or "Biome-Born", maybe? It could even incorporate some aspects of druid, much like favored soul does with cleric. It could learn "Thorn Whip" and "Mold Earth" naturally, and could have a class feature that increases the duration/strength of spells like Earthbind and Spike Growth.. Or maybe it could just outright make spells that do bludgeoning/piercing/slashing damage ignore resistance?
I could see it being a nice compromise between a geomancer and a terrain sorcerer while also having unique flavor that isn't solely based on elemental attacks and manipulation.
It's ok Ranger, you'll always be cool to me.. Unless druid gets another use for its wild shape charges.
It might be better as a druid subclass, now that I think of it. Circle of Mud/Ooze?
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Mud works. Sorcerer, Druid, whichever you prefer. (I prefer Sorcerer, but it’s your idea, do whatever you prefer.) You should write it up. Maybe give them Mold Earth and Shape Water as bonus cantrips. You could write a custom Investiture of Mud spell for them too. If you go Druid you could write a mud elemental for them to shift into. If you go Sorcerer you could give them a mud Mud Mephit as a unique familiar. Lots of battlefield control stuff too. That sounds like a lot of fun!
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I like that a lot, lmao. I would just do my most exaggerated "Good ol' boy" accent and scream yeehaw while throwing mud everywhere.
It's ok Ranger, you'll always be cool to me.. Unless druid gets another use for its wild shape charges.
Wow, those are some great ideas! I hope someone over at WotC is paying attention to this thread.
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