Two PC’s roll successful divine interventions simultaneously. PC 1 makes request but player 2 makes request to interfere with whatever PC 1 has requested.
That's a complicated and epic situation. The first thing I would do is probably have the table take a break, so that I'd have time to think about the consequences.
(1) Let them both be rewarded in some way.
(2) Let the outcome highlight their respective deities.
If both players have the same deity, then the easy answer is to let the deity decide which path aligns best with their interests.
If the request from the former ends up cancelled, there can still be secondary effects that feel divinely dramatic.
Neither should be made to feel that their god is inferior.
What is the specific situation, and who are the gods in play?
That's a complicated and epic situation. The first thing I would do is probably have the table take a break, so that I'd have time to think about the consequences.
(1) Let them both be rewarded in some way.
(2) Let the outcome highlight their respective deities.
If both players have the same deity, then the easy answer is to let the deity decide which path aligns best with their interests.
If the request from the former ends up cancelled, there can still be secondary effects that feel divinely dramatic.
Neither should be made to feel that their god is inferior.
What is the specific situation, and who are the gods in play?
So in 5e, the fact is that some Gods ARE inferior to others. You have greater deities, lesser deities, etc.
That being said, I wouldn't outright cancel it. Divine Intervention is a 10% chance, 19% if you're 19 and a 100% at level 20, which 99% of players never see. It's a once a day ability that isn't even going to work in the majority of instances, and when it does work you can't use it for a 7 day period. That's insane. Deities typically aren't going to directly interfere with what their mortals are doing but 10th level clerics aren't mere mortals, they are people who can affect change on the planet with their own whims and fancies. A second deity surely isn't going to interfere in another deity who is ALREADY stepping outside of scope for this person, and if they are it's going to mean some dire consequences.
The way I'd do it is:
First one just works. They asked first, got the roll, and it works. It's already happened, turn resolved, next up.
Second asks to intervene, I'd say that's impossible because the action has already occurred. You got the roll off, you can still ask for help, but you can't just flat out negate what the first God did. You can ask for something else that happens AFTER that, but what's done is done.
That's a complicated and epic situation. The first thing I would do is probably have the table take a break, so that I'd have time to think about the consequences.
(1) Let them both be rewarded in some way.
(2) Let the outcome highlight their respective deities.
If both players have the same deity, then the easy answer is to let the deity decide which path aligns best with their interests.
If the request from the former ends up cancelled, there can still be secondary effects that feel divinely dramatic.
Neither should be made to feel that their god is inferior.
What is the specific situation, and who are the gods in play?
So in 5e, the fact is that some Gods ARE inferior to others. You have greater deities, lesser deities, etc.
Which is why I said "feel".
Divine rank shouldn't impact character creation mechanics.
This is definitely a heavily roleplay-dependent decision. Divine Intervention in general is very DM-dependent... it's not a free Wish for the characters if they can beat the odds threshhold. What the deity does in relation to the player's request depends on what the DM decides. If the DM decides that the second deity is powerful enough to undo the first deities intervention and would be willing to do so, then it gets undone. But if the second deity wouldn't want to just undo the first deities intervention, even if they had the power to do so, they might just appear in front of the second PC and say, "No, dude, don't be a dick. Ask for something else".
I think the best course of action would be for the second characte's deity to take an action to counteract whatever the first character asked for, without directly cancelling it out. The way I see it, you want to mechanically treat the deities as equals, so that cannot overrule eachother, but they can give a benefit equally great that is directly intended to fight the effect of the other... It could be something like a tool, or a thematically opposite effect.
Let's say character 1 asks for their deity to burn down a forest, and character 2 asks their deity to prevent that.. It'd be both underwhelming and lame if character 2's deity basically did a divine counterspell and stopped the fire from taking place.. Instead deity 2 could summon a mighty storm to fight the inferno, and you'd have this epic scene of the two forces clashing.. if you really wanna spice it up, perhaps water and fire elementals are summoned and start fighting.
Depending on the gods, #2 interfering with what #1 did could easily start some sort of a war between the deities, especially if they are ordinarily at odds.
For example, in my world Apollo and Dispater are major enemies. If the cleric of Apollo tried to get his god to do something and a cleric of Dispater got Dispater to interfere and stop it, this could easily touch off a major war between the two, since they already pretty well detest each other. And given that, again in my world, Diana and Minerva have also had serious run-ins with Dispater in the past, this could pull them in, which then might pull in Asmodeus, Orcus, etc. You could have a major god war on your hands.
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That's a complicated and epic situation. The first thing I would do is probably have the table take a break, so that I'd have time to think about the consequences.
(1) Let them both be rewarded in some way.
(2) Let the outcome highlight their respective deities.
If both players have the same deity, then the easy answer is to let the deity decide which path aligns best with their interests.
If the request from the former ends up cancelled, there can still be secondary effects that feel divinely dramatic.
Neither should be made to feel that their god is inferior.
What is the specific situation, and who are the gods in play?
So in 5e, the fact is that some Gods ARE inferior to others. You have greater deities, lesser deities, etc.
Which is why I said "feel".
Divine rank shouldn't impact character creation mechanics.
It's something I'd bring up in session zero if I wanted to make it pertinent, but I'd amend that to divine rank usually shouldn't impact character creation. Deities can get involved in conflicts, and being a follower of one a little lower in the pecking order can be an interesting choice to make. I don't think it's necessarily all that different from choosing to be a law-abiding citizen and making connections with legit authority figures vs choosing to consort with criminal elements - depending on what you need and how you try to get it one might be more helpful than the other, even if you prefer playing the other for reasons of your own.
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It's something I'd bring up in session zero if I wanted to make it pertinent, but I'd amend that to divine rank usually shouldn't impact character creation. Deities can get involved in conflicts, and being a follower of one a little lower in the pecking order can be an interesting choice to make.
That is something interesting to think about. Session 0 before the PCs get to the point they can use divine intervention? Or session X when divine intervention comes to the table. How do the players know which gods are more powerful than others if they are from different pantheons or areas of influence?
Until this point I hadn't thought about PC trying to cancel PC divine action. I can't imagine them doing that to each other.
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Until this point I hadn't thought about PC trying to cancel PC divine action. I can't imagine them doing that to each other.
It shouldn't happen in a normal game, but I can easily imagine a player taking on the role of "secret BBEG". A competing Divine Intervention event would make for an incredible, albeit extremely improbable, reveal. At that point there are lots of other issues that should hopefully already be sorted.
Depending on the gods, #2 interfering with what #1 did could easily start some sort of a war between the deities, especially if they are ordinarily at odds.
For example, in my world Apollo and Dispater are major enemies. If the cleric of Apollo tried to get his god to do something and a cleric of Dispater got Dispater to interfere and stop it, this could easily touch off a major war between the two, since they already pretty well detest each other. And given that, again in my world, Diana and Minerva have also had serious run-ins with Dispater in the past, this could pull them in, which then might pull in Asmodeus, Orcus, etc. You could have a major god war on your hands.
I'd say that, if the deities aren't opposed to each other, #2 doesn't intervene to prevent hostility.
It's something I'd bring up in session zero if I wanted to make it pertinent, but I'd amend that to divine rank usually shouldn't impact character creation. Deities can get involved in conflicts, and being a follower of one a little lower in the pecking order can be an interesting choice to make.
That is something interesting to think about. Session 0 before the PCs get to the point they can use divine intervention? Or session X when divine intervention comes to the table. How do the players know which gods are more powerful than others if they are from different pantheons or areas of influence?
Until this point I hadn't thought about PC trying to cancel PC divine action. I can't imagine them doing that to each other.
Session zero, when the characters are being created and players might choose a patron deity (since that way it gets to be part of the backstory), or session X if it's more of a character/campaign arc reaching a point where it becomes relevant. It'd be part of setting lore. Multiple deities could be trying to 'recruit' the PCs to their side of an existing conflict, a god could need (or at least want) their help for some plan they have on the material plane, it could be the party as a whole they want or just one chosen PC, a character could beg for a deity's help in their hour of greatest need and pledge a lifetime of service in return, and so on. And all of that could be pre-campaign backstory or mid-campaign events.
I don't think it's probable at all for a 'regular' party to devolve into that kind of disagreement and betrayal, but there are always outliers. Evil parties exist, and even in good-aligned parties characters could eventually find themselves at odds to that point.
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Without specifics it cannot be answered fully. For example, same god/goddess, or not. If not, what’s the packing order? What are their domains? What are the reasons for the requests? Drawing from an example we’re all familiar with, if Cleric A calls on Zeus because it’s in Zeus’s best interests, and Cleric B calls on Hermes because it suits them, then I’ma put my Royals on Zeus gettin’ his way and Hermès wishing him a fair thee well, and asking if he could get Zeus anything on his way out.
I would have both gods admonish their clerics for trying to use them in such a petty way. If a cleric has a problem with another cleric, they should duke it out themselves, not shout "I choose you!" and throw their gods into battle as if they were Pokemon.
If Apollo wants to throw down with Dispater, he's going to do it for his own reasons. Not because some mortal asked him to. At least that's how I run gods.
If a cleric has a problem with another cleric, they should duke it out themselves, not shout "I choose you!" and throw their gods into battle as if they were Pokemon.
I won't lie, the image of that made me laugh.
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First one just works. They asked first, got the roll, and it works. It's already happened, turn resolved, next up.
Second asks to intervene, I'd say that's impossible because the action has already occurred. You got the roll off, you can still ask for help, but you can't just flat out negate what the first God did. You can ask for something else that happens AFTER that, but what's done is done.
This is the way I'd probably go about it. If by some random circumstance both players simultaneously said 'My God does this!', I would make them roll Initiative to see who acts first.
If the requests are in direct conflict with the other, you could either go with one God saying they will 'not fight a Divine Ally', or make both players roll a Religion check to see who can channel the most Divine Power. This would probably be a last resort; if an amicable solution cannot be reached, in this way, only the dice can be blamed.
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As a DM have you ever, or how might you guide:
Two PC’s roll successful divine interventions simultaneously. PC 1 makes request but player 2 makes request to interfere with whatever PC 1 has requested.
That's a complicated and epic situation. The first thing I would do is probably have the table take a break, so that I'd have time to think about the consequences.
(1) Let them both be rewarded in some way.
(2) Let the outcome highlight their respective deities.
If both players have the same deity, then the easy answer is to let the deity decide which path aligns best with their interests.
If the request from the former ends up cancelled, there can still be secondary effects that feel divinely dramatic.
Neither should be made to feel that their god is inferior.
What is the specific situation, and who are the gods in play?
No specifics. Just a general curiosity. Your answer it’s very informative. Thank you
So in 5e, the fact is that some Gods ARE inferior to others. You have greater deities, lesser deities, etc.
That being said, I wouldn't outright cancel it. Divine Intervention is a 10% chance, 19% if you're 19 and a 100% at level 20, which 99% of players never see. It's a once a day ability that isn't even going to work in the majority of instances, and when it does work you can't use it for a 7 day period. That's insane. Deities typically aren't going to directly interfere with what their mortals are doing but 10th level clerics aren't mere mortals, they are people who can affect change on the planet with their own whims and fancies. A second deity surely isn't going to interfere in another deity who is ALREADY stepping outside of scope for this person, and if they are it's going to mean some dire consequences.
The way I'd do it is:
First one just works. They asked first, got the roll, and it works. It's already happened, turn resolved, next up.
Second asks to intervene, I'd say that's impossible because the action has already occurred. You got the roll off, you can still ask for help, but you can't just flat out negate what the first God did. You can ask for something else that happens AFTER that, but what's done is done.
Which is why I said "feel".
Divine rank shouldn't impact character creation mechanics.
This is definitely a heavily roleplay-dependent decision. Divine Intervention in general is very DM-dependent... it's not a free Wish for the characters if they can beat the odds threshhold. What the deity does in relation to the player's request depends on what the DM decides. If the DM decides that the second deity is powerful enough to undo the first deities intervention and would be willing to do so, then it gets undone. But if the second deity wouldn't want to just undo the first deities intervention, even if they had the power to do so, they might just appear in front of the second PC and say, "No, dude, don't be a dick. Ask for something else".
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I think the best course of action would be for the second characte's deity to take an action to counteract whatever the first character asked for, without directly cancelling it out. The way I see it, you want to mechanically treat the deities as equals, so that cannot overrule eachother, but they can give a benefit equally great that is directly intended to fight the effect of the other... It could be something like a tool, or a thematically opposite effect.
Let's say character 1 asks for their deity to burn down a forest, and character 2 asks their deity to prevent that.. It'd be both underwhelming and lame if character 2's deity basically did a divine counterspell and stopped the fire from taking place.. Instead deity 2 could summon a mighty storm to fight the inferno, and you'd have this epic scene of the two forces clashing.. if you really wanna spice it up, perhaps water and fire elementals are summoned and start fighting.
Depending on the gods, #2 interfering with what #1 did could easily start some sort of a war between the deities, especially if they are ordinarily at odds.
For example, in my world Apollo and Dispater are major enemies. If the cleric of Apollo tried to get his god to do something and a cleric of Dispater got Dispater to interfere and stop it, this could easily touch off a major war between the two, since they already pretty well detest each other. And given that, again in my world, Diana and Minerva have also had serious run-ins with Dispater in the past, this could pull them in, which then might pull in Asmodeus, Orcus, etc. You could have a major god war on your hands.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
It's something I'd bring up in session zero if I wanted to make it pertinent, but I'd amend that to divine rank usually shouldn't impact character creation. Deities can get involved in conflicts, and being a follower of one a little lower in the pecking order can be an interesting choice to make. I don't think it's necessarily all that different from choosing to be a law-abiding citizen and making connections with legit authority figures vs choosing to consort with criminal elements - depending on what you need and how you try to get it one might be more helpful than the other, even if you prefer playing the other for reasons of your own.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
That is something interesting to think about. Session 0 before the PCs get to the point they can use divine intervention? Or session X when divine intervention comes to the table. How do the players know which gods are more powerful than others if they are from different pantheons or areas of influence?
Until this point I hadn't thought about PC trying to cancel PC divine action. I can't imagine them doing that to each other.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
It shouldn't happen in a normal game, but I can easily imagine a player taking on the role of "secret BBEG". A competing Divine Intervention event would make for an incredible, albeit extremely improbable, reveal. At that point there are lots of other issues that should hopefully already be sorted.
I'd say that, if the deities aren't opposed to each other, #2 doesn't intervene to prevent hostility.
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Session zero, when the characters are being created and players might choose a patron deity (since that way it gets to be part of the backstory), or session X if it's more of a character/campaign arc reaching a point where it becomes relevant. It'd be part of setting lore. Multiple deities could be trying to 'recruit' the PCs to their side of an existing conflict, a god could need (or at least want) their help for some plan they have on the material plane, it could be the party as a whole they want or just one chosen PC, a character could beg for a deity's help in their hour of greatest need and pledge a lifetime of service in return, and so on. And all of that could be pre-campaign backstory or mid-campaign events.
I don't think it's probable at all for a 'regular' party to devolve into that kind of disagreement and betrayal, but there are always outliers. Evil parties exist, and even in good-aligned parties characters could eventually find themselves at odds to that point.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
Without specifics it cannot be answered fully. For example, same god/goddess, or not. If not, what’s the packing order? What are their domains? What are the reasons for the requests? Drawing from an example we’re all familiar with, if Cleric A calls on Zeus because it’s in Zeus’s best interests, and Cleric B calls on Hermes because it suits them, then I’ma put my Royals on Zeus gettin’ his way and Hermès wishing him a fair thee well, and asking if he could get Zeus anything on his way out.
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I would have both gods admonish their clerics for trying to use them in such a petty way. If a cleric has a problem with another cleric, they should duke it out themselves, not shout "I choose you!" and throw their gods into battle as if they were Pokemon.
If Apollo wants to throw down with Dispater, he's going to do it for his own reasons. Not because some mortal asked him to. At least that's how I run gods.
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I won't lie, the image of that made me laugh.
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This is the way I'd probably go about it. If by some random circumstance both players simultaneously said 'My God does this!', I would make them roll Initiative to see who acts first.
If the requests are in direct conflict with the other, you could either go with one God saying they will 'not fight a Divine Ally', or make both players roll a Religion check to see who can channel the most Divine Power. This would probably be a last resort; if an amicable solution cannot be reached, in this way, only the dice can be blamed.
#Open D&D
Have the Physical Books? Confused as to why you're not allowed to redeem them for free on D&D Beyond? Questions answered here at the Hardcover Books, D&D Beyond and You FAQ
Looking to add mouse-over triggered tooltips to such things like magic items, monsters or combat actions? Then dash over to the How to Add Tooltips thread.