So my 4th level Glamour Bard is owed a favour or two from a bunch of dwarves, and they have given him the option of the "tickle stick", or some magical enhancement(s) to my studded leather armour
The tickle stick:
+1 rapier, every creature hit by the rapier suffers from Tasha’s Hideous Laughter, and the first saving throw is at disadvantage
(I've asked for clarifications, but for now I'm assuming for concentration purposes, it would be as if I had cast the spell, and the save will be against my spell save DC)
The armour enhancements however, the DM is looking for suggestions/wish list from me. I'm not very experienced with DND, and I'm having trouble gauging suggestions that would be roughly equivalent in power to the Tickle Stick
Currently thinking about the following options:
1) Straight bonus to AC (does +2 sound about right?)
2) +1 to AC and all saves
3) Resistance to a common damage type (say piercing)
4) Bonus to a skill check (say double-proficiency to Stealth)
5) Cast a 1st level spell each time I'm hit (Armor of Agathys maybe, or Hellish Rebuke. Shield seems too strong?)
Holy crap, that weapon is so strong I’d be wary of giving it to my 11th level party. I’m not here to tell your DM how to run their game, but items like that sound like the short road to boring-fights-ville. Heck, even a +1 sword is more powerful than a character below level 5 should normally get: I’d consider that a rich reward!
But seeing as balance is already out the window here, let’s analyze what we’ve got. Armor with +2 to AC or resistance to a damage type is I think a level 11+ item, in fact that particular damage type makes it even stronger. The Cloak of Protection equivalent or Stealth bonus seem more in line with 5+, though they’re still powerful for that. And the Hellish Rebuke armor I’m not sure, but I’d say 11+.
Regardless, as insanely OP as all these items are, the rapier still seems like the most OP of all. Your DM will probably break the game with more “cool” items later anyway, so just lean into the fun while it lasts. I’d take the “tickle stick.” (And then multiclass into Fighter.) :)
For a glamour Bard I would normally suggest something like a +1 bonus to your Spell Save DC for your Illusion spells. But if your DM is willing to give you a sword that brokenly OP….
That sword is overpowered, yes, but it's also actually a very cool idea for a Glamour bard that is otherwise absolutely terrible at martial combat. Like, as written there it's extremely powerful, but the base idea behind it is actually a very cool magic item - this sword that insults and beguiles people as it strikes them, weaving bardic magic into its attacks.
Personally, I would go for the sword. Tasha's Hideous Laughter is useful from levels 1 to 20, and imposing disadvantage on the save is exceptionally good. If you wanted armor though...hm. I don't know what the dwarves are capable of, but an idea occurs to me that could be super amusing...
Bardic Backup Band Studded Leather Armor (requires attunement by a bard) This armor has been imbued with the spirit of music itself, aiding its wearer in giving stirring performances.
When you grant a creature Bardic Inspiration, shadowy backup singers appear within your space and echo your song, creating a spectral harmony. You may give an Inspiration die to two additional creatures of your choice within range as part of the same bonus action, without expending any additional uses of Bardic Inspiration. Once you do so, you must complete a short rest before you can use this property of the armor again.
So my 3rd level Glamour Bard is owed a favour or two from a bunch of dwarves, and they have given him the option of the "tickle stick", or some magical enhancement(s) to my studded leather armour
The tickle stick:
+1 rapier, every creature hit by the rapier suffers from Tasha’s Hideous Laughter, and the first saving throw is at disadvantage
(I've asked for clarifications, but for now I'm assuming for concentration purposes, it would be as if I had cast the spell, and the save will be against my spell save DC)
The armour enhancements however, the DM is looking for suggestions/wish list from me. I'm not very experienced with DND, and I'm having trouble gauging suggestions that would be roughly equivalent in power to the Tickle Stick
Currently thinking about the following options:
1) Straight bonus to AC (does +2 sound about right?)
2) +1 to AC and all saves
3) Resistance to a common damage type (say piercing)
4) Bonus to a skill check (say double-proficiency to Stealth)
5) Cast a 1st level spell each time I'm hit (Armor of Agathys maybe, or Hellish Rebuke. Shield seems to strong?)
Any advice appreciated. Thanks in advance.
How about studded leather +1 that gives opponents a disadvantage against your Charisma based saving throws?
Thanks for the excellent advice and suggestions, folks.
I also thought it was OP, and suggested to the DM that he tone it down a bit, but he's quite comfortable with it as written. Absolutely agree that it's a very cool and flavourful item though, too.
I think the fact that Tasha's is a concentration spell stops it from being utterly ridiculous, as I won't be able to affect more than one opponent with it at any one time, plus I'm squishy and often fail concentration checks (but as inexperienced as I am, am happy to be argued against)
Also apologies for the typo, but I'm actually level 4 not 3. -I'll correct the original post.
So a follow-up question would be: How would you suggest the DM tone it down a bit? For context, the other members of my party are also getting new shinies from the dwarves. I don't want to talk them out of some cool stuff too, but I think the tickle stick is currently more powerful than these:
Fighter is getting:
+1 greatsword and for one turn, have as many reactions as you like if they attack, which strike before an enemy attacks you
Paladin is getting:
+1 Glaive and once per combat, strike all targets in range at -2 to hit – all creatures (friend or foe) within range would be hit unless prone
Wizard is getting a staff, but I don't know what it does
That greatsword is also one of the most ridiculously powerful items I've ever seen, regardless of level. If I had it, I'd still be swinging it at Level 20. So I think you're fine: this campaign is clearly more about the fun of playing with crazy OP stuff than any semblance of balance. At this point, just enjoy the ride!
(Edit: did not read the 'for one turn' part. Tickle stick is more powerful, and much more powerful than the glaive. Oh well, still pretty ridiculous, so my advice still applies.)
Honestly? Yeah. Far be it from me to try and convince a DM not to do cool personalized items the characters and players both will treasure until the end of the game as rewards for a job well done. Frankly I wish more DMs would do stuff like that instead of sticking religiously to random loot tables.
Honestly? Yeah. Far be it from me to try and convince a DM not to do cool personalized items the characters and players both will treasure until the end of the game as rewards for a job well done. Frankly I wish more DMs would do stuff like that instead of sticking religiously to random loot tables.
Some of these are a bit much in the sense that under the right kind of circumstances they can outright prevent entire enemy turns, or as good as (depending on some technical details that aren't entirely clear). Messing with the action economy can be hard to balance. In general though, yes, absolutely, bring on the powerful and flavorful loot. As long as the DM makes sure the enemies aren't hopelessly outclassed, this is great.
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The sword is an interesting Action Gamble sort of thing to me, because to use it the bard has to wander his perfectly-coiffured ass up into melee range and hit an enemy with it. The Hideous Laughter is powerful as hell, yeah, but a bard can also just cast Hideous Laughter. The sword lets him do it for free and gives a critter disadvantage on the save, but if he misses his one attack roll, or if the critter hits its save anyways? Monsieur Glamour Bard is all up there in the critter's face, with his d8 hit die and likely-low Constitution and unenchanted armor, ripe for revenge-biting. If the bard has to maintain concentration on Laughter, that turns off any of his other spells. The more I think about it, the more I think the sword is actually okay. Very good, and certainly the sort of thing I'd be using until endgame if I was ever in a position to bard, and perhaps it would be a bit much on a Swords or Valor bard that is good* in martial combat anyways. But this is a Glamour bard. They suck in melee. Having to put himself in melee to try and use his powerful sword - with all that entails - may be closer to a fair trade than I originally surmised.
... Monsieur Glamour Bard is all up there in the critter's face, with his d8 hit die and likely-low Constitution and unenchanted armor, ripe for revenge-biting. ... The more I think about it, the more I think the sword is actually okay. Very good, and certainly the sort of thing I'd be using until endgame if I was ever in a position to bard, and perhaps it would be a bit much on a Swords or Valor bard that is good* in martial combat anyways. But this is a Glamour bard. They suck in melee. ...
Both true... for now. Maybe that bard multiclasses into Hexblade right after the party finds some badass magical chain mail, and where are we then? Not saying this is likely, but it's not implausible. More generally, a level three character's charsheet isn't always a good indicator of what the character will be like another few levels down the line.
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I've had the chance to look deeply into the rules for Concentration, and they pretty much prevent melee attacks. You have to spend your primary Action on the spell. In that case you don't qualify for a Bonus Action. You can get a Reaction, if triggered by your opponent. An Attack Of Opportunity. So how is that going to happen if they are lying on the floor laughing? They can't move.
So if *you* are not keeping up Concentration, it must be the sword doing it. Set aside the problem of the sword needing to be intelligent to use that, and wonder about this. How many people can it render helpless, and for how long? There's no mention of a limit. You could have a whole pile of people helplessly laughing on the floor, scattered all around you, out to 30 feet away. The range/area of the spell is 30 feet. Does that mean you get a 60 foot in diameter sphere?
The duration of the spell is one minute. The sword is keeping up Concentration so you can fight normally. What happens to someone when the spell wears off? They get a Wisdom save every turn and once they make their save the spell ends. Can you walk right over and whack them again? Doing damage would make it easier for them to save, but you could opt to not do any actual damage, and just try to knock them out. You need a second weapon to pull it off, but you could attack three times if they try to get away. Twice with the Tickle Stick and once with the offhand weapon. You do no damage and you force them to save three different times to avoid going back to the floor and laughing again.
You could keep an awful lot of people down for quite a long while if you felt like it. I wouldn't let anyone have a weapon like that. I can't imagine a suit of armor with the same level of power. As usual, I hope you and everyone else has fun.
I've had the chance to look deeply into the rules for Concentration, and they pretty much prevent melee attacks. You have to spend your primary Action on the spell.
It's a homebrew weapon that, judging by everything mentioned in the opening post, triggers the casting of a spell on a hit. Look as deeply as you want into the rules, but this item already goes outside the normal rules so what's the point?
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Heh. And wouldn't that be an interesting character arc? The flashy vaudevillian performer receiving a powerful blade and becoming obsessed with its power, striking contracts with dark powers to learn how to more effectively wield this gift he'd never imagined possessing. Seeking out armor, leaving behind his beginnings as a musical magician to become a magical swordsman all due to a random happenstance of fate. Never imagining what he might have done had he remained true to his one-time path instead, or what even more enticing treasures might have been his had he not fastened onto this fel blade.
... Monsieur Glamour Bard is all up there in the critter's face, with his d8 hit die and likely-low Constitution and unenchanted armor, ripe for revenge-biting. ... The more I think about it, the more I think the sword is actually okay. Very good, and certainly the sort of thing I'd be using until endgame if I was ever in a position to bard, and perhaps it would be a bit much on a Swords or Valor bard that is good* in martial combat anyways. But this is a Glamour bard. They suck in melee. ...
Both true... for now. Maybe that bard multiclasses into Hexblade right after the party finds some badass magical chain mail, and where are we then? Not saying this is likely, but it's not implausible. More generally, a level three character's charsheet isn't always a good indicator of what the character will be like another few levels down the line.
Hexblade multi classes are obnoxious imo, but I’d go straight for Fighter. Balance is already out the window (and I doubt the DM who designed this tries to balance fights anyway) so I’d milk that sword for all it’s worth.
... Monsieur Glamour Bard is all up there in the critter's face, with his d8 hit die and likely-low Constitution and unenchanted armor, ripe for revenge-biting. ... The more I think about it, the more I think the sword is actually okay. Very good, and certainly the sort of thing I'd be using until endgame if I was ever in a position to bard, and perhaps it would be a bit much on a Swords or Valor bard that is good* in martial combat anyways. But this is a Glamour bard. They suck in melee. ...
Both true... for now. Maybe that bard multiclasses into Hexblade right after the party finds some badass magical chain mail, and where are we then? Not saying this is likely, but it's not implausible. More generally, a level three character's charsheet isn't always a good indicator of what the character will be like another few levels down the line.
Hexblade multi classes are obnoxious imo, but I’d go straight for Fighter. Balance is already out the window (and I doubt the DM who designed this tries to balance fights anyway) so I’d milk that sword for all it’s worth.
Could have said fighter, could have said paladin, could have said rogue even. Hexblade's just more obvious given multiclass ability requirements, though Dex is presumably not an issue. Regardless, there's lots of options.
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So a follow-up question would be: How would you suggest the DM tone it down a bit?
Limit the uses: once per combat or once per short rest
Don't impose disadvantage on the save
While the target is affected, you must stay adjacent to the target and use your actions to maintain the effect. I think this would be more compelling than requiring concentration and it backs up the image of you physically tickling them.
I agree that tickling everything in combat is OP. I believe scatterbrained's solution makes it more balanced, and it's more in line with the actual focus the actual act of tickling requires, so you have to stay in melee range.
As an armor option I'd say "armor of affirmation" which grants you resistance to psychic damage, and a +1 AC, the armor has a bracer mounted mirror to assert the PC is "good enough, smart enough, and gosh darn it, people like them." That's just an off the cuff suggestion and I'll let folks debate its balance if they want.
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So my 4th level Glamour Bard is owed a favour or two from a bunch of dwarves, and they have given him the option of the "tickle stick", or some magical enhancement(s) to my studded leather armour
The tickle stick:
+1 rapier, every creature hit by the rapier suffers from Tasha’s Hideous Laughter, and the first saving throw is at disadvantage
(I've asked for clarifications, but for now I'm assuming for concentration purposes, it would be as if I had cast the spell, and the save will be against my spell save DC)
The armour enhancements however, the DM is looking for suggestions/wish list from me. I'm not very experienced with DND, and I'm having trouble gauging suggestions that would be roughly equivalent in power to the Tickle Stick
Currently thinking about the following options:
1) Straight bonus to AC (does +2 sound about right?)
2) +1 to AC and all saves
3) Resistance to a common damage type (say piercing)
4) Bonus to a skill check (say double-proficiency to Stealth)
5) Cast a 1st level spell each time I'm hit (Armor of Agathys maybe, or Hellish Rebuke. Shield seems too strong?)
Any advice appreciated. Thanks in advance.
That's a pretty darn powerful pig sticker. Does it require attunement?
Regardless, for a Glamour bard I might suggest something like Glamoured Studded Leather. That seems very roughly comparable.
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Holy crap, that weapon is so strong I’d be wary of giving it to my 11th level party. I’m not here to tell your DM how to run their game, but items like that sound like the short road to boring-fights-ville. Heck, even a +1 sword is more powerful than a character below level 5 should normally get: I’d consider that a rich reward!
But seeing as balance is already out the window here, let’s analyze what we’ve got. Armor with +2 to AC or resistance to a damage type is I think a level 11+ item, in fact that particular damage type makes it even stronger. The Cloak of Protection equivalent or Stealth bonus seem more in line with 5+, though they’re still powerful for that. And the Hellish Rebuke armor I’m not sure, but I’d say 11+.
Regardless, as insanely OP as all these items are, the rapier still seems like the most OP of all. Your DM will probably break the game with more “cool” items later anyway, so just lean into the fun while it lasts. I’d take the “tickle stick.” (And then multiclass into Fighter.) :)
Wizard (Gandalf) of the Tolkien Club
For a glamour Bard I would normally suggest something like a +1 bonus to your Spell Save DC for your Illusion spells. But if your DM is willing to give you a sword that brokenly OP….
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That sword is overpowered, yes, but it's also actually a very cool idea for a Glamour bard that is otherwise absolutely terrible at martial combat. Like, as written there it's extremely powerful, but the base idea behind it is actually a very cool magic item - this sword that insults and beguiles people as it strikes them, weaving bardic magic into its attacks.
Personally, I would go for the sword. Tasha's Hideous Laughter is useful from levels 1 to 20, and imposing disadvantage on the save is exceptionally good. If you wanted armor though...hm. I don't know what the dwarves are capable of, but an idea occurs to me that could be super amusing...
Bardic Backup Band Studded Leather Armor (requires attunement by a bard)
This armor has been imbued with the spirit of music itself, aiding its wearer in giving stirring performances.
When you grant a creature Bardic Inspiration, shadowy backup singers appear within your space and echo your song, creating a spectral harmony. You may give an Inspiration die to two additional creatures of your choice within range as part of the same bonus action, without expending any additional uses of Bardic Inspiration. Once you do so, you must complete a short rest before you can use this property of the armor again.
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How about studded leather +1 that gives opponents a disadvantage against your Charisma based saving throws?
Thanks for the excellent advice and suggestions, folks.
I also thought it was OP, and suggested to the DM that he tone it down a bit, but he's quite comfortable with it as written. Absolutely agree that it's a very cool and flavourful item though, too.
I think the fact that Tasha's is a concentration spell stops it from being utterly ridiculous, as I won't be able to affect more than one opponent with it at any one time, plus I'm squishy and often fail concentration checks (but as inexperienced as I am, am happy to be argued against)
Also apologies for the typo, but I'm actually level 4 not 3. -I'll correct the original post.
So a follow-up question would be: How would you suggest the DM tone it down a bit? For context, the other members of my party are also getting new shinies from the dwarves. I don't want to talk them out of some cool stuff too, but I think the tickle stick is currently more powerful than these:
Fighter is getting:
+1 greatsword and for one turn, have as many reactions as you like if they attack, which strike before an enemy attacks you
Paladin is getting:
+1 Glaive and once per combat, strike all targets in range at -2 to hit – all creatures (friend or foe) within range would be hit unless prone
Wizard is getting a staff, but I don't know what it does
That greatsword is also one of the most ridiculously powerful items I've ever seen, regardless of level. If I had it, I'd still be swinging it at Level 20. So I think you're fine: this campaign is clearly more about the fun of playing with crazy OP stuff than any semblance of balance. At this point, just enjoy the ride!
(Edit: did not read the 'for one turn' part. Tickle stick is more powerful, and much more powerful than the glaive. Oh well, still pretty ridiculous, so my advice still applies.)
Wizard (Gandalf) of the Tolkien Club
Honestly? Yeah. Far be it from me to try and convince a DM not to do cool personalized items the characters and players both will treasure until the end of the game as rewards for a job well done. Frankly I wish more DMs would do stuff like that instead of sticking religiously to random loot tables.
Please do not contact or message me.
Some of these are a bit much in the sense that under the right kind of circumstances they can outright prevent entire enemy turns, or as good as (depending on some technical details that aren't entirely clear). Messing with the action economy can be hard to balance. In general though, yes, absolutely, bring on the powerful and flavorful loot. As long as the DM makes sure the enemies aren't hopelessly outclassed, this is great.
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The sword is an interesting Action Gamble sort of thing to me, because to use it the bard has to wander his perfectly-coiffured ass up into melee range and hit an enemy with it. The Hideous Laughter is powerful as hell, yeah, but a bard can also just cast Hideous Laughter. The sword lets him do it for free and gives a critter disadvantage on the save, but if he misses his one attack roll, or if the critter hits its save anyways? Monsieur Glamour Bard is all up there in the critter's face, with his d8 hit die and likely-low Constitution and unenchanted armor, ripe for revenge-biting. If the bard has to maintain concentration on Laughter, that turns off any of his other spells. The more I think about it, the more I think the sword is actually okay. Very good, and certainly the sort of thing I'd be using until endgame if I was ever in a position to bard, and perhaps it would be a bit much on a Swords or Valor bard that is good* in martial combat anyways. But this is a Glamour bard. They suck in melee. Having to put himself in melee to try and use his powerful sword - with all that entails - may be closer to a fair trade than I originally surmised.
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Both true... for now. Maybe that bard multiclasses into Hexblade right after the party finds some badass magical chain mail, and where are we then? Not saying this is likely, but it's not implausible. More generally, a level three character's charsheet isn't always a good indicator of what the character will be like another few levels down the line.
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I've had the chance to look deeply into the rules for Concentration, and they pretty much prevent melee attacks. You have to spend your primary Action on the spell. In that case you don't qualify for a Bonus Action. You can get a Reaction, if triggered by your opponent. An Attack Of Opportunity. So how is that going to happen if they are lying on the floor laughing? They can't move.
So if *you* are not keeping up Concentration, it must be the sword doing it. Set aside the problem of the sword needing to be intelligent to use that, and wonder about this. How many people can it render helpless, and for how long? There's no mention of a limit. You could have a whole pile of people helplessly laughing on the floor, scattered all around you, out to 30 feet away. The range/area of the spell is 30 feet. Does that mean you get a 60 foot in diameter sphere?
The duration of the spell is one minute. The sword is keeping up Concentration so you can fight normally. What happens to someone when the spell wears off? They get a Wisdom save every turn and once they make their save the spell ends. Can you walk right over and whack them again? Doing damage would make it easier for them to save, but you could opt to not do any actual damage, and just try to knock them out. You need a second weapon to pull it off, but you could attack three times if they try to get away. Twice with the Tickle Stick and once with the offhand weapon. You do no damage and you force them to save three different times to avoid going back to the floor and laughing again.
You could keep an awful lot of people down for quite a long while if you felt like it. I wouldn't let anyone have a weapon like that. I can't imagine a suit of armor with the same level of power. As usual, I hope you and everyone else has fun.
<Insert clever signature here>
It's a homebrew weapon that, judging by everything mentioned in the opening post, triggers the casting of a spell on a hit. Look as deeply as you want into the rules, but this item already goes outside the normal rules so what's the point?
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Heh. And wouldn't that be an interesting character arc? The flashy vaudevillian performer receiving a powerful blade and becoming obsessed with its power, striking contracts with dark powers to learn how to more effectively wield this gift he'd never imagined possessing. Seeking out armor, leaving behind his beginnings as a musical magician to become a magical swordsman all due to a random happenstance of fate. Never imagining what he might have done had he remained true to his one-time path instead, or what even more enticing treasures might have been his had he not fastened onto this fel blade.
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Easy, give it charges and a fixed Spell Save DC like regular magic items that can cast spells.
However, I just had a wickedly marvelous (or perhaps marvelously wicked) idea. First get the Fighter player on board and together convince the DM to leave the Tickle Stick enchantment just as is, but put it on the Greatsword, and instead give your Bard the ability to pul a ridiculous Reaction shenanigan turn. The Fighter could cast Hideous Laughter with every attack potentially knocking several creatures prone every turn, and just maintain Concentration on the last one. Even when they get hit, if they loose Concentration it’s no biggie because they can just cast it again several times next turn. And as a Bard, you’re going to have access to these:
https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells?filter-class=0&filter-search=&filter-casting-time=3&filter-verbal=&filter-somatic=&filter-material=&filter-concentration=&filter-ritual=&filter-sub-class=
😉
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Hexblade multi classes are obnoxious imo, but I’d go straight for Fighter. Balance is already out the window (and I doubt the DM who designed this tries to balance fights anyway) so I’d milk that sword for all it’s worth.
Wizard (Gandalf) of the Tolkien Club
Could have said fighter, could have said paladin, could have said rogue even. Hexblade's just more obvious given multiclass ability requirements, though Dex is presumably not an issue. Regardless, there's lots of options.
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My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
I agree that tickling everything in combat is OP. I believe scatterbrained's solution makes it more balanced, and it's more in line with the actual focus the actual act of tickling requires, so you have to stay in melee range.
As an armor option I'd say "armor of affirmation" which grants you resistance to psychic damage, and a +1 AC, the armor has a bracer mounted mirror to assert the PC is "good enough, smart enough, and gosh darn it, people like them." That's just an off the cuff suggestion and I'll let folks debate its balance if they want.
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