My War Cleric/Paladin loved a good fight but he would get to a point when he would offer to spare the lives of remaining enemies if they would either surrender or flee. Some of the others in the party weren't in favor of this because we might wind up fighting the same bad guys more than once but in the end, it worked out for the best. Toward the end of the third act, we were squaring off against a bunch of flunkies who were trying to buy time for their lord and master to escape. Many of them had faced us before and we'd allowed them to flee which went their fuzzy lord's narrative of us. We convinced about a quarter of them to bolt when the fight started.
As DMs, how often do you have your minions flee or surrender? Many enemies (any beast in its own lair, most Undead, etc.) simply won't flee and will fight to the death but what about the rest?
We consider it much more realistic for the enemy to break and run once the battle is lost. I just wondered how other DMs handled it?
I sometimes use the below system for managing morale for a few of my intelligent creature in encounters, it's a hidden D100 roll at the top of every round from the 3rd/4th round on.
If nothing major has happened in a round, a <=5% roll will result in the enemy panicking and either fleeing/surrendering.
For each combatant downed by the players in a round the percentage goes up by 10 until it maxes out at <=65%.
If the players fail to knock out/kill anyone in the round, the percentage drops by 5% per enemy combatant still standing.
If a player's character is downed, the morale resets at the top of the next round.
When the players have killed off most of the threats and only a single combatant is remaining, that combatant will be locked at a <=65% chance of giving up at the top of every round.
Some enemies I give a 'cowardly' trait, which means the base value of their morale roll is <=25% instead of <=5% and the upper value becomes <=75% instead of <=65%.
If it seems to me that the combat is mostly hopeless, then I usually have my NPCs surrender (depending on the nature of the combatants, of course.) I think its important to remember how fast combat actually is and if the players drop a large number of npcs in the first 18 seconds of a combat, then it seems unlikely that a rational being would continue that engagement. They'd either pull back to regroup and attack on better odds or accept that they are so supremely outclassed that continued resistence is suicide. It's partially to make NPCs seem more like real people, but honestly, it's more in line with wrapping up combat that has no more interesting tricks and turns to play. After the enemy's line breaks, combat is over and it's time to move on with the story. Surrender and Flight (not through the air, but from combat) is about pacing control.
There is a morale suggestion in 5e DMG that can be easily tweaked for encounters.
I've seen a campaign whose DM makes morale (and instinct/common behavior) judgements in most situations and, if the he's unsure whether an enemy is going to cut and run, he'll let the dice decide.
That stated, it's been up to the players if they wish to pursue the fleeing enemies. So far, they haven't chased any fleeing beasts (or beast-minded creatures) and they took prisoner those few people who surrendered or were incapacitated. The one time they did chase fleeing enemies was because the enemies had stolen their stuff, but the chase did not end up in further bloodshed when they caught up to the thieves (mostly because the party was extremely outnumbered and made a bargain instead).
It would make sense that enemies with nothing to lose (such as beings from other planes who'll simply return to their own planes) would never surrender, but a pack of wolves getting their tails handed to them would likely clear off as a pack (or what remained of the pack).
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Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider. My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong. I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲 “It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
I wrote up a whole system of rules for creatures where upon 0 hp they gained the "defeated" condition and based on the creature type and circumstances would either flee, surrender, or fight to the death. Then I threw it out because it was just way easier and less complicated to adjudicate things on the fly. But my group has a Redemption paladin and no one else is particularly bloodthirsty, so they rarely kill everything in an encounter unless it's something like demons or undead.
“Not suggesting that in a fantasy game it can't work like that, it is after a game of myth and legend but there is no actual real-world basis for the unbreakable morale (fight to death because logically we are going to die anyway) psychology, even most of the real world stories people know are largely made up. Once someone's morale is broken, logic is no longer part of the equation, its just pure survival and in a situation in which fight = death, flight or surrender are the only alternatives.”
while this is largely true there are enough legitimate stories of unbroken morale to the point of TPK perhaps the best known is the Alamo.
A wild animal hunting for food might flee after 1/4 HP loss. A wild animal defending its terrirotyr might fight on to 1/2 or 3/4 HP loss. A wild animal defending its young will never retreat.
A bandit who knows they face death by hanging if captured will never surrender. "Better to die with a dagger in my hand!"
A raiding warband seeking plunder might flee or sue for parley after 1/2 HP loss. A raiding warband seeking to kill enemies of their race/territory/religion/whatever might fight until 3/4 HP loss.
Fanatical servants of the BBG will never stop fighting. Hired mercenaries workjing for the BBG will probably stop at 1/2 to 3/4 HP loss. Scared minions and slaves will probably flee at the first sign of any blood.
I usually reminds players at the begining of my campaign that not all fights to death must be. That some encounters will be weaker, or stronger than they can handle and to not hesitate to flee or surrender in critical moments, so are enemies.
The D&D 5e combat system doesn't handle fleeing and chases well, and quite often 2 turns of dashing will see an enemy off even a fairly large VTT battlemap. I try to avoid having enemies flee where possible: it's anticlimactic for the players not to finish a fight off fully, and chasing and downing an enemy at long range usually feels weak.
This may not be 'realistic' but then this is a heroic game, not a realistic game. I have key NPCs flee, but usually that's something that I expect to happen in those cases. I also have the last one or two minions leg it after the main threat is downed, since mopping up the last couple of orcs is usually not very interesting. If we wanted to play 'realistically' everyone should flee immediately upon seeing a Fireball, since they have no idea how powerful the enemy wizard is.
It's also worth noting that in 'realism' terms most fights in D&D are over in about 18-36 seconds, and most creatures on the battlefield won't know how the fight is going all over. Usually by the time a creature, locked up in combat with steel clashing as it duels a plate clad warrior, even realises that anyone else has gone down, the fight is largely over.
I understand if other people want to have enemies flee a lot, but I'd save it for key NPCs or for groups of weak creatures that won't present an interesting fight anyway. Otherwise it's unsatisfying for the players.
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My War Cleric/Paladin loved a good fight but he would get to a point when he would offer to spare the lives of remaining enemies if they would either surrender or flee. Some of the others in the party weren't in favor of this because we might wind up fighting the same bad guys more than once but in the end, it worked out for the best. Toward the end of the third act, we were squaring off against a bunch of flunkies who were trying to buy time for their lord and master to escape. Many of them had faced us before and we'd allowed them to flee which went their fuzzy lord's narrative of us. We convinced about a quarter of them to bolt when the fight started.
As DMs, how often do you have your minions flee or surrender? Many enemies (any beast in its own lair, most Undead, etc.) simply won't flee and will fight to the death but what about the rest?
We consider it much more realistic for the enemy to break and run once the battle is lost. I just wondered how other DMs handled it?
I sometimes use the below system for managing morale for a few of my intelligent creature in encounters, it's a hidden D100 roll at the top of every round from the 3rd/4th round on.
Some enemies I give a 'cowardly' trait, which means the base value of their morale roll is <=25% instead of <=5% and the upper value becomes <=75% instead of <=65%.
If it seems to me that the combat is mostly hopeless, then I usually have my NPCs surrender (depending on the nature of the combatants, of course.) I think its important to remember how fast combat actually is and if the players drop a large number of npcs in the first 18 seconds of a combat, then it seems unlikely that a rational being would continue that engagement. They'd either pull back to regroup and attack on better odds or accept that they are so supremely outclassed that continued resistence is suicide. It's partially to make NPCs seem more like real people, but honestly, it's more in line with wrapping up combat that has no more interesting tricks and turns to play. After the enemy's line breaks, combat is over and it's time to move on with the story. Surrender and Flight (not through the air, but from combat) is about pacing control.
There is a morale suggestion in 5e DMG that can be easily tweaked for encounters.
I've seen a campaign whose DM makes morale (and instinct/common behavior) judgements in most situations and, if the he's unsure whether an enemy is going to cut and run, he'll let the dice decide.
That stated, it's been up to the players if they wish to pursue the fleeing enemies. So far, they haven't chased any fleeing beasts (or beast-minded creatures) and they took prisoner those few people who surrendered or were incapacitated. The one time they did chase fleeing enemies was because the enemies had stolen their stuff, but the chase did not end up in further bloodshed when they caught up to the thieves (mostly because the party was extremely outnumbered and made a bargain instead).
It would make sense that enemies with nothing to lose (such as beings from other planes who'll simply return to their own planes) would never surrender, but a pack of wolves getting their tails handed to them would likely clear off as a pack (or what remained of the pack).
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider.
My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong.
I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲
“It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
I wrote up a whole system of rules for creatures where upon 0 hp they gained the "defeated" condition and based on the creature type and circumstances would either flee, surrender, or fight to the death. Then I threw it out because it was just way easier and less complicated to adjudicate things on the fly. But my group has a Redemption paladin and no one else is particularly bloodthirsty, so they rarely kill everything in an encounter unless it's something like demons or undead.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
“Not suggesting that in a fantasy game it can't work like that, it is after a game of myth and legend but there is no actual real-world basis for the unbreakable morale (fight to death because logically we are going to die anyway) psychology, even most of the real world stories people know are largely made up. Once someone's morale is broken, logic is no longer part of the equation, its just pure survival and in a situation in which fight = death, flight or surrender are the only alternatives.”
while this is largely true there are enough legitimate stories of unbroken morale to the point of TPK perhaps the best known is the Alamo.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
It depends.
A wild animal hunting for food might flee after 1/4 HP loss.
A wild animal defending its terrirotyr might fight on to 1/2 or 3/4 HP loss.
A wild animal defending its young will never retreat.
A bandit who knows they face death by hanging if captured will never surrender. "Better to die with a dagger in my hand!"
A raiding warband seeking plunder might flee or sue for parley after 1/2 HP loss.
A raiding warband seeking to kill enemies of their race/territory/religion/whatever might fight until 3/4 HP loss.
Fanatical servants of the BBG will never stop fighting.
Hired mercenaries workjing for the BBG will probably stop at 1/2 to 3/4 HP loss.
Scared minions and slaves will probably flee at the first sign of any blood.
I usually reminds players at the begining of my campaign that not all fights to death must be. That some encounters will be weaker, or stronger than they can handle and to not hesitate to flee or surrender in critical moments, so are enemies.
The D&D 5e combat system doesn't handle fleeing and chases well, and quite often 2 turns of dashing will see an enemy off even a fairly large VTT battlemap. I try to avoid having enemies flee where possible: it's anticlimactic for the players not to finish a fight off fully, and chasing and downing an enemy at long range usually feels weak.
This may not be 'realistic' but then this is a heroic game, not a realistic game. I have key NPCs flee, but usually that's something that I expect to happen in those cases. I also have the last one or two minions leg it after the main threat is downed, since mopping up the last couple of orcs is usually not very interesting. If we wanted to play 'realistically' everyone should flee immediately upon seeing a Fireball, since they have no idea how powerful the enemy wizard is.
It's also worth noting that in 'realism' terms most fights in D&D are over in about 18-36 seconds, and most creatures on the battlefield won't know how the fight is going all over. Usually by the time a creature, locked up in combat with steel clashing as it duels a plate clad warrior, even realises that anyone else has gone down, the fight is largely over.
I understand if other people want to have enemies flee a lot, but I'd save it for key NPCs or for groups of weak creatures that won't present an interesting fight anyway. Otherwise it's unsatisfying for the players.