My group has just gotten to level 16 and we are beginning to feel the difference in power between the characters. Not necessarily with how much damage is being done between martial and spell casting classes, but between Active and Passive helpfulness in combat. My Redemption Paladin(13)/Storm Herald Barbarian(3) was talking about feeling like she is very useful passively but not very useful actively, especially when paired against our Draconic Bloodline Sorcerer and our Evocation Wizard. They were saying they don’t feel like there is much for them to actively do aside from hit bad-guy and use smite assuming they don’t miss. They give a lot of benefit to just being around (via their auras and reactions) and I've told them that depending on where they are determines a lot of things for me to try and think about when they go up against enemies that have a certain level on intelligence, but simply positioning themselves isn’t the sort of active engagement they enjoy. Until now I’d never really thought about the difference between active and passive helpfulness. Here is her character sheet so you can take a look if you want. I will update this later if we find a solution. https://ddb.ac/characters/19150065/RK1DDT My question to you is in 2 parts;
Have you ever experienced or seen this delineation between passive and active helpfulness?
Can you think of anything that we can do - short of a total character rework - that can give this player more active usefulness in combat.
Hitting things with their sword is kind of what paladins do. Perhaps it would help to contrast what the others have that's more "active?" Is it just that they have a variety of spells? If so, welcome to the martial vs caster debate.
One way to give them more options for their action is to give them magic items that can do stuff. You can also have in-combat situations that require ability checks in combat-maybe the paladin needs to hold up a portcullis long enough for the others to get through, stuff like that.
They've multiclassed a melee brawler and a support character - so naturally melee and support are the two things they excel the most at. If that class fantasy isn't one they're interested in, maybe the total character rework is the way to go after all. It would be a lot easier than trying to fundamentally change what the paladin and barbarian classes try to accomplish. I mean, shit, they're giving the party +4 to all saves and advantage against all spells, they're a melee character with Counterspell so are generally better positioned to use it than the casters, and they must be taking an incredible amount of aggro and damage since they're the only tank. If they're not enjoying that, then they probably will never enjoy playing support.
That said, maybe boost their HP with something like an Amulet of Health, so they can soak up more damage and be more evidently useful. You could find a way to boost their save DC so they're more likely to want to use their spells. Looks like they could use some help with their spell choices too, as they have Resilient Sphere prepared twice.
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My group has just gotten to level 16 and we are beginning to feel the difference in power between the characters. Not necessarily with how much damage is being done between martial and spell casting classes, but between Active and Passive helpfulness in combat.
My Redemption Paladin(13)/Storm Herald Barbarian(3) was talking about feeling like she is very useful passively but not very useful actively, especially when paired against our Draconic Bloodline Sorcerer and our Evocation Wizard. They were saying they don’t feel like there is much for them to actively do aside from hit bad-guy and use smite assuming they don’t miss. They give a lot of benefit to just being around (via their auras and reactions) and I've told them that depending on where they are determines a lot of things for me to try and think about when they go up against enemies that have a certain level on intelligence, but simply positioning themselves isn’t the sort of active engagement they enjoy.
Until now I’d never really thought about the difference between active and passive helpfulness.
Here is her character sheet so you can take a look if you want. I will update this later if we find a solution. https://ddb.ac/characters/19150065/RK1DDT
My question to you is in 2 parts;
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"Play the game however you want to play the game. After all, your fun doesn't threaten my fun."
Hitting things with their sword is kind of what paladins do. Perhaps it would help to contrast what the others have that's more "active?" Is it just that they have a variety of spells? If so, welcome to the martial vs caster debate.
One way to give them more options for their action is to give them magic items that can do stuff. You can also have in-combat situations that require ability checks in combat-maybe the paladin needs to hold up a portcullis long enough for the others to get through, stuff like that.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
They've multiclassed a melee brawler and a support character - so naturally melee and support are the two things they excel the most at. If that class fantasy isn't one they're interested in, maybe the total character rework is the way to go after all. It would be a lot easier than trying to fundamentally change what the paladin and barbarian classes try to accomplish. I mean, shit, they're giving the party +4 to all saves and advantage against all spells, they're a melee character with Counterspell so are generally better positioned to use it than the casters, and they must be taking an incredible amount of aggro and damage since they're the only tank. If they're not enjoying that, then they probably will never enjoy playing support.
That said, maybe boost their HP with something like an Amulet of Health, so they can soak up more damage and be more evidently useful. You could find a way to boost their save DC so they're more likely to want to use their spells. Looks like they could use some help with their spell choices too, as they have Resilient Sphere prepared twice.