Paladin replace Fighter. Devotion, with shillalegh staff warcaster full charisma.
Life Cleric got a boost i was amazed at my table with healer feat... !!! Light still great on lower levels but think life is overall better now
Divination Wizard, But sorcerer got a real boost in 2024 !!! I really love draconic for DPS and survavibility +++
Bard replace Rogue. (Rogue are actually lowest tier with tier 3-4 Ranger, especially after the mega nerf to stealth) (Think i l go Valor with great weapon master if you cannot dip level 1 fighter for dual weapons)
All humans, 2 feats.... Tough and/or Alert or Lucky.
Forget stealth except on Bard... and maybe wizard, use familiiar for reconnaissance.
If you add a fifth character take a Maul/sentinal ''Wolf'' Barbarian :) All the team now get advantage most of the time
AND...
Have fun, take the character you like the most all can do very good with any ''synergic'' team building.
For example. If you go pure vintage Fighter, Wizard, Cleric, Rogue, just take ''DUAL weapon'' weapon master Fighter with commander strike manoeuver and suddenly your tier C Rogue become tier S with 2 sneak attacks each turn using he s reactions...
Meat shield looking for something to keep it mad, Dual health support with adaptive tactical abilities, and an arcane well tap that can ether clutch or kill, it’s different from the conventional four, thats for sure.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
" Darkvision doesn’t work in Magical darkness, and if something is magical, Never Trust it acts the same way as a non-magical version of that same thing!”- Discotech Mage over a cup of joe.
Twilight Cleric Swashbuckler Rogue (Dual Wield or crossbow expert) Battlemaster Fighter (Dual Wield) Sorcerer (your choice of which one)
Twilight Cleric hands out Temp HP to everyone every round, Rogue sneak attacks with weapon mastery (melee or ranged), Battlemaster uses maneuvers and weapon mastery (melee or ranged), and the Sorcerer provides the AoE.
Outside of combat, they cover a wide range of skills and support / utility spells as well
I don't think the classes the group makes matters that much. If it's based on what I have fun with then...
Bard, Rogue, Fighter, and normally Artificer but since that's not allowed Warlock. The bard and the warlock might need to figure out which is covering for a cleric and which is covering for a wizard, or figure out if they are both covering a bit of each, and make the appropriate build choices.
If a person wants to take it a step further then replacing the fighter and rogue with a paladin and ranger increases the magic and healing in the party to help cover what's lost going with a bard and warlock over a cleric and wizard. Could be an all gishy team.
1. Tiefling Vengeance Paladin, Tiefling can hellish rebuke and the ability to toss down darkness in the case that the party actually ever needs retreat makes such a paladin able to play the controlling role just a bit better. This character skills up to be a party face
2. Half-Elf Lore Bard, can take on any healing the Paladin does not fulfil while still able to buff the party and play a strong supporting role. With skills, this character skills up to be a stealthier character, fulfilling the rogue duties. Half-elf gives
3. Variant Human Bladesinger Wizard, useful more for ritual casting but having the ability to toss out spells or melee attacks, the variant human gets an additional feat too, helping the build along.
4. Aarakocra Moon Druid (have actually played this before), Circle of the Moon gives a lot of powerful wildshape options, you still get full spellcaster progression and with flight in base form, you don't need to worry about losing wildshape mid air. You become an excellent scout from the air and have numerous tricks to get away.
2024,
1. Goliath (Fire) Wildheart Barbarian, the ability to inflict more damage (giving advantage to allies) or take resistances is good. Goliath then adds even more damage and the ability to become a large form, controlling even more of the battlefield. Starting with a Greataxe and migrating to a Halberd later on.
2. Infernal Tiefling Archfey Warlock, another gish build but with the ability to teleport into and out of combat, devil's sight with the darkness spell can give an additional area for safely teleporting in/out of while in combat. Overall party face.
3. Wood Elf War Cleric, cleric is good in any additional but mixed with Wood Elf, gives pass without trace and maintain the ability to use spirit guardians and spiritual weapon together.
4. Halfing Arcane Trickster Rogue, Rogue is now trickier then ever, picking up two hand crossbows means more likely to sneak attack, no longer having a speed penalty, being lucky and more manoeuvrable on the battlefield are all benefits.
I am not saying either of these are the best or optimal, just if I had to make a part of 4 for either editions, this is what I would most likely choose at this point in time.
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
But I'm disinclined to choose a subclass. That is an issue on my part.
Once I read other responses, that might be tweaked a bit, but by my immediate thought is this. Each of them sits between other potentials, three are basically gishes that give a broader range of skills, and collectively, they can range from relatively weak to extremely powerful; this gives them a good spread of abilities across the whole of the typical campaign that I would run.
It also means that they have to think more, be more creative in using what they have, and their general ethos as classes provides a very rich possible set of character arcs.
I fear that in dong so, it reveals some quirks about how I think in terms of the larger game, however. Thankfully, my general dislike of one of the classes chosen (non-rational, and derived from being an older, longer term player) will obscure some stuff, lol.
Edit:
Now that I read the other responses, I can say that the list applies to both 2014 and 2024 (they aren't that different a game).
Also, i find it interesting that Bard is so common. Rogue is to be expected (always has been), and the absence of Sorcerer is almost certainly because folks don't see them as a potent class. Warlocks get the love, and Wizards are totally better at it, so I definitely can understand.
Oddly enough, among the several reasons for my choices are that they are the closest to the core "average". Spending two days creating a spread sheet for AC, HP, Damage per Attack, Number of Attacks, Proficiency Bonus, and Saving Throws, then assigning a rough value to different Features and Feats to arrive at an average adjustment for them has given me a different viewpoint, perhaps.
Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities .-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-. An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more. Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
Being a ranger and sorceror fan I’ll go ranger, ranger, ranger sorceror just to be fairly different. As for sub classes: 1) gloomstalker ranger ( rogue replacement), 2) hunter ( fighter/barbarian replacement) , 3) either fey wanderer or horizon walker both get misty step and good spells and could cover the healer role as well. For sorceror probably the 2024 draconic (I assume the FR UA spellfire sorceror is unavailable) with the right skill and feat selections it would actually be a fairly powerful team that covers all the bases.
With a party of 4 PCs and no multi-classing (also no Artificer) what kind of party would you make?
The standard Fighter, Wizard, Cleric, Rogue?
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
BARD.
B - Bard
A -
ArtificerwizArdR - Rogue
D - Fighter (lol no one picks Druid)
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Check out my life-changing
Paladin replace Fighter. Devotion, with shillalegh staff warcaster full charisma.
Life Cleric got a boost i was amazed at my table with healer feat... !!! Light still great on lower levels but think life is overall better now
Divination Wizard, But sorcerer got a real boost in 2024 !!! I really love draconic for DPS and survavibility +++
Bard replace Rogue. (Rogue are actually lowest tier with tier 3-4 Ranger, especially after the mega nerf to stealth) (Think i l go Valor with great weapon master if you cannot dip level 1 fighter for dual weapons)
All humans, 2 feats.... Tough and/or Alert or Lucky.
Forget stealth except on Bard... and maybe wizard, use familiiar for reconnaissance.
If you add a fifth character take a Maul/sentinal ''Wolf'' Barbarian :) All the team now get advantage most of the time
AND...
Have fun, take the character you like the most all can do very good with any ''synergic'' team building.
For example. If you go pure vintage Fighter, Wizard, Cleric, Rogue, just take ''DUAL weapon'' weapon master Fighter with commander strike manoeuver and suddenly your tier C Rogue become tier S with 2 sneak attacks each turn using he s reactions...
Using 2014 or 2024 rules?
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
2014: Barbarian , Ranger, Paladin, Sorcerer.
Meat shield looking for something to keep it mad, Dual health support with adaptive tactical abilities, and an arcane well tap that can ether clutch or kill, it’s different from the conventional four, thats for sure.
" Darkvision doesn’t work in Magical darkness, and if something is magical, Never Trust it acts the same way as a non-magical version of that same thing!”- Discotech Mage over a cup of joe.
Lets go with 2014
and separate list for 2024 if it changes things.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
In that case, I'd go Paladin, Bard, Druid, and Wizard.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Cleric, Ranger, Bard, Rogue.
or....
Cleric, Cleric, Cleric. Cleric!
Anzio Faro. Protector Aasimar light cleric. Lvl 18.
Viktor Gavriil. White dragonborn grave cleric. Lvl 20.
Ikram Sahir ibn-Malik al-Sayyid Ra'ad. Brass dragonborn draconic sorcerer Lvl 9. Fire elemental devil.
Wrangler of cats.
Twilight Cleric
Swashbuckler Rogue (Dual Wield or crossbow expert)
Battlemaster Fighter (Dual Wield)
Sorcerer (your choice of which one)
Twilight Cleric hands out Temp HP to everyone every round, Rogue sneak attacks with weapon mastery (melee or ranged), Battlemaster uses maneuvers and weapon mastery (melee or ranged), and the Sorcerer provides the AoE.
Outside of combat, they cover a wide range of skills and support / utility spells as well
Playing D&D since 1982
Have played every version of the game since Basic (Red Box Set), except that abomination sometimes called 4e.
I don't think the classes the group makes matters that much. If it's based on what I have fun with then...
Bard, Rogue, Fighter, and normally Artificer but since that's not allowed Warlock. The bard and the warlock might need to figure out which is covering for a cleric and which is covering for a wizard, or figure out if they are both covering a bit of each, and make the appropriate build choices.
If a person wants to take it a step further then replacing the fighter and rogue with a paladin and ranger increases the magic and healing in the party to help cover what's lost going with a bard and warlock over a cleric and wizard. Could be an all gishy team.
2014,
1. Tiefling Vengeance Paladin, Tiefling can hellish rebuke and the ability to toss down darkness in the case that the party actually ever needs retreat makes such a paladin able to play the controlling role just a bit better. This character skills up to be a party face
2. Half-Elf Lore Bard, can take on any healing the Paladin does not fulfil while still able to buff the party and play a strong supporting role. With skills, this character skills up to be a stealthier character, fulfilling the rogue duties. Half-elf gives
3. Variant Human Bladesinger Wizard, useful more for ritual casting but having the ability to toss out spells or melee attacks, the variant human gets an additional feat too, helping the build along.
4. Aarakocra Moon Druid (have actually played this before), Circle of the Moon gives a lot of powerful wildshape options, you still get full spellcaster progression and with flight in base form, you don't need to worry about losing wildshape mid air. You become an excellent scout from the air and have numerous tricks to get away.
2024,
1. Goliath (Fire) Wildheart Barbarian, the ability to inflict more damage (giving advantage to allies) or take resistances is good. Goliath then adds even more damage and the ability to become a large form, controlling even more of the battlefield. Starting with a Greataxe and migrating to a Halberd later on.
2. Infernal Tiefling Archfey Warlock, another gish build but with the ability to teleport into and out of combat, devil's sight with the darkness spell can give an additional area for safely teleporting in/out of while in combat. Overall party face.
3. Wood Elf War Cleric, cleric is good in any additional but mixed with Wood Elf, gives pass without trace and maintain the ability to use spirit guardians and spiritual weapon together.
4. Halfing Arcane Trickster Rogue, Rogue is now trickier then ever, picking up two hand crossbows means more likely to sneak attack, no longer having a speed penalty, being lucky and more manoeuvrable on the battlefield are all benefits.
I am not saying either of these are the best or optimal, just if I had to make a part of 4 for either editions, this is what I would most likely choose at this point in time.
That's BARF
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
4 tortles, all rogues... ;)
Barbarian
Bard
Ranger
Sorcerer
Hmmm. Good one.
For general class, I'm inclined to turn to
But I'm disinclined to choose a subclass. That is an issue on my part.
Once I read other responses, that might be tweaked a bit, but by my immediate thought is this. Each of them sits between other potentials, three are basically gishes that give a broader range of skills, and collectively, they can range from relatively weak to extremely powerful; this gives them a good spread of abilities across the whole of the typical campaign that I would run.
It also means that they have to think more, be more creative in using what they have, and their general ethos as classes provides a very rich possible set of character arcs.
I fear that in dong so, it reveals some quirks about how I think in terms of the larger game, however. Thankfully, my general dislike of one of the classes chosen (non-rational, and derived from being an older, longer term player) will obscure some stuff, lol.
Edit:
Now that I read the other responses, I can say that the list applies to both 2014 and 2024 (they aren't that different a game).
Also, i find it interesting that Bard is so common. Rogue is to be expected (always has been), and the absence of Sorcerer is almost certainly because folks don't see them as a potent class. Warlocks get the love, and Wizards are totally better at it, so I definitely can understand.
Oddly enough, among the several reasons for my choices are that they are the closest to the core "average". Spending two days creating a spread sheet for AC, HP, Damage per Attack, Number of Attacks, Proficiency Bonus, and Saving Throws, then assigning a rough value to different Features and Feats to arrive at an average adjustment for them has given me a different viewpoint, perhaps.
Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities
.-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-.
An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more.
Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
Being a ranger and sorceror fan I’ll go ranger, ranger, ranger sorceror just to be fairly different. As for sub classes: 1) gloomstalker ranger ( rogue replacement), 2) hunter ( fighter/barbarian replacement) , 3) either fey wanderer or horizon walker both get misty step and good spells and could cover the healer role as well. For sorceror probably the 2024 draconic (I assume the FR UA spellfire sorceror is unavailable) with the right skill and feat selections it would actually be a fairly powerful team that covers all the bases.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Whatever people want to play and fits the story the DM and the players want to tell.
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Whatever the players want will likely be fine.
Looking at their campaigns, the constellation of overlapping groups I'm in would be playing:
Not Monks?
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
I just created 4 characters with the random character generator. That gave me a sorcerer, barbarian, bard, and ranger. Seems good enough.