I'm DMing a campaigning for three level 2's: a druid, a barbarian, and a monk.
The monk and barbarian usually engage the enemy in close range combat well the druid stands far behind the line.
The monk, (with 15 hit points,) keeps getting knocked unconscious. The PC's are winning their fights, but well too often they have to expend healing resources on the monk (healing word, potions). Am I missing something, or are monks supposed to be ranged combatants, if not, then are monks known for being flimsy, and is there anything I can do to avoid devastating the monk?
Monks excel at battlefield disruption - they have a lot of abilities to allow them to move around the battlefield, gaining advantage for their side.
By that I mean, consider a battle formation with an enemy wizard, having several warriors infront of them - whilst a barbarian or fighter will move in and engage the warriors, the party monk might use Step of the Wind, leaping over the heads of the warriors, to attack the wizard, striking them to break a concentration spell.
If a monk is played in such a way that they just move forward into battle in the way a barbarian, fighter, or paladin might - they will feel weaker, yes.
Additionally, monks are often stealthy, as well as highly mobile, allowing them to also be competent at infiltration.
They're also fast, and can "kite" melee opponents at times, without having to worry about being caught and cornered.
Once they've gained a few levels, monks also gain features like Deflect Missiles, and Evasion, that allow them to completely avoid certain types of damage in a fight.
I personally love playing monks, but playing an effective monk requires a good knowledge of all of their features.
It might be more effective if the Druid Wild Shapes to something scary and charges into the fray with the Barbarian while the Monk strikes at the back field opponents. With Flurry of Blows, chances are they will most likely disrupt concentration spells, and with Stunning Strike the Monk can stun a key opponent and then safely leave that creature’s reach to take cover between turns.
The monk being a combatant with few hit points must find a way to use his movement to attack and move away from the melee, like a normal rogue does. The problem is that the monk lacks a practical way to disengage from melee without having to use ki or suffer opportunity attacks. So I recommend taking the "Mobile" feat or if human variant the "Crusher" feat.
There are other systems, such as "Step of the Wind", or the "open hand techniques", or the "Astral self" reach combat, etc. Unfortunately, these cost ki points.
There are races like the Goblin that disengage as a bonus action, but this would cause you to lose one if not two unarmed attacks every turn.
For beginning monks I strongly recommend the variant human race with the Crusher talent. The only disadvantage you might have is darkvision.
A second level monk can be a challenge as they have yet to access many of their key features and their Ki pool is so limited. One thing you can be doing as a DM is considering how many short rests are available, as Ki replenishes on a short rest. More short rests allows the Monk more opportunity to use Step of the Wind, Patient Defense and Flurry of Blows. The Monk should also be encouraged to use a weapon if they are not already; both Quarterstaff and Spear do 1d8 plus attribute modifier when wielded two hands, and still allow an Unarmed Blow or a Flurry of Blows as a Bonus Action. Finally, the low level Monk in my party finds Patient Defense very useful, especially when being targeted by multiple opponents and disengaging is difficult. Since it allows Dodge as a Bonus Action, the Monk can still make a melee attack with their weapon as their action and move their base movement while still making themselves very difficult to hit. Against opponents with poor base chances to hit, it can work out better than Step of the Wind (Disengage) as the opponents use their reactions in a fruitless attempt to land attacks of opportunity on the Monk.
As Nicandor said, level 2 can be rough. Short rests and Patient Defense or Step of the Wind should be priority over Flurry of Blows or their Bonus Action attack. Maybe not round one if they are at full HP and can take a hit. But once they are in the fight and can be taken down in one round then it’s time to start disengaging or dodging with the Bonus Action.
Monks at low levels are weak melee combatants not enough ki points to be effective. I recommend player use hit and run tactics and focus on spell caster. Once stunning strike is available then focus battle control
My Monk is level 13 now and I am a fearsome, solid front line fighter, standing alongside our Fighter and Barbarian easily and holding my own. This started to work well around level 8-9 without burning through too much Ki. He's Open Hand, so always had a free walk away after using FoB (about the most efficient use of my Ki, I find) as Open Hand lets FoB remove the target's reaction. Around level 8-9, I had come across enough items and gained enough ASI's that my Unarmored Defense was high enough to make getting hit a lot less common. If the enemies were pretty big hitters and we wanted to spread the hurt, I would usually take my 2 attacks, then stay in range and Step for a Dodge stance. Disadvantage and my high AC meant a lot more misses than hits. Mind, I still have lower HP than a "proper" frontliner, so when the hits do start landing, it's time to step away and change tactic.
Tell your player the early levels of Monk are tough, as we do have low AC and low HP, but our strengths do run to being up there in the face of the foe. You didn't mention which path he/she took, which might help folks offer some tips or suggestions. The subclasses are different enough that there are several different ways to play, depending on subclass.
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The poll really needs an option for neither; as Stormknight says Monks are not straight up frontline fighters.
They are fast, flexible combatants who fight in the frontline in bursts (depending upon Ki), but you really want to use them to strike at key targets like a Rogue wherever possible. They also have elements of control in Stunning Strike and various sub-class features.
I put melee in the poll because most Monks don't excel at range; the main exception is the Kensei, who can fight very effectively with a longbow but is still solid in melee if they need to be. But again, your aim is not to get stuck trading blows in melee, you want to strike where it matters and then move on as much as possible.
Once you have more Ki you can do this easily, but at the lower levels it's trickier; I don't think they're bad at a low level by any means, and in some ways it's good that you're forced to ration your Ki early as it trains you to still do it later on even once you have loads more, because spending Ki on the right thing at the right time is often much more effective than burning it all on Flurry of Blows (though some sub-classes benefit a lot from doing so, like Open Hand or Way of Mercy).
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Basically barbarians, fighters and paladins are front line tanks, monks, rogues and rangers are high mobility skirmishers that try to avoid tanking while maneuvering for the foe’s squishies in the back.
Basically barbarians, fighters and paladins are front line tanks, monks, rogues and rangers are high mobility skirmishers that try to avoid tanking while maneuvering for the foe’s squishies in the back.
This is almost word for word what I came here to say.
I've got a Shadow Monk in my current campaign who started out trying to be a front line fighter, always going toe-to-toe with the bad guys like he was a Barbarian or something. He got rather frustrated with combat because he ended up at zero hit points a lot. That type of combat simply doesn't work for Monks. We're at 17th level now and he's the ultimate skirmisher, attacking from out of nowhere, then fading back into the shadows. He also walks on walls, dives off cliffs, deflects ballista bolts, and stuns giant monsters.
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Monks are meant to be melee fighters, Monks are not meant to be tanks. In the party you describe the Druid will be a better tank than the Monk.
Monks can be good ranged fighters too. Ranged or melee you can be good up until 10th level or so. After that you probably want to multiclass.
The key with a Monk is do NOT use flurry of blows (like ever) and when fighting a very powerful melee enemy do not stay engaged unless you stun the enemy. Either use step of the wind or shadow step away if you are a shadow Monk. If you have to stay engaged use patient defense. If you are out of Ki or use your bonus for something else take the AOO and move away (hopefully with a blocker) as most enemies have multiattack, better to take 1 attack as an AOO then 2+ on his turn.
When it comes to subclass Shadow Monk is by far the best subclass for a melee Monk. In levels 4-6 when a shadow Monk can cast more spells than an equal level Warlock and about as many as a Wizard (more than a Wizard with several short rests a day). Darkness is also great for a Monk because it eleminates AOOs. Go in and attack (normal no disadvantage because the enemy cant see you (advantage) plus you cants see the enemy (disadvantage)). The only other two I would consider are Kensie or Mercy but neither of these are as good on a melee Monk IMO.
Regardless of which subclass you play though, Monk loses steam fast after level 10. That is the time to multiclass. For a melee oriented character Fighter, or Ranger are good options, wizard or warlock are good too if you have the stats.
Monks are meant to be melee fighters, Monks are not meant to be tanks. In the party you describe the Druid will be a better tank than the Monk.
Monks can be good ranged fighters too. Ranged or melee you can be good up until 10th level or so. After that you probably want to multiclass.
The key with a Monk is do NOT use flurry of blows (like ever) and when fighting a very powerful melee enemy do not stay engaged unless you stun the enemy. Either use step of the wind or shadow step away if you are a shadow Monk. If you have to stay engaged use patient defense. If you are out of Ki or use your bonus for something else take the AOO and move away (hopefully with a blocker) as most enemies have multiattack, better to take 1 attack as an AOO then 2+ on his turn.
When it comes to subclass Shadow Monk is by far the best subclass for a melee Monk. In levels 4-6 when a shadow Monk can cast more spells than an equal level Warlock and about as many as a Wizard (more than a Wizard with several short rests a day). Darkness is also great for a Monk because it eleminates AOOs. Go in and attack (normal no disadvantage because the enemy cant see you (advantage) plus you cants see the enemy (disadvantage)). The only other two I would consider are Kensie or Mercy but neither of these are as good on a melee Monk IMO.
Regardless of which subclass you play though, Monk loses steam fast after level 10. That is the time to multiclass. For a melee oriented character Fighter, or Ranger are good options, wizard or warlock are good too if you have the stats.
Just to extend on what you wrote, Open Hand is a great choice for melee as well since you can push the enemy away as part of your FoBs so you can move away without opportunity attacks. Or if they are too likely to succeed their STR check you can just knock them prone so they have disadvantage on them or if they are ALSO too likely to succeed their DEX check you can just take their reactions away until your next turn without any check required.
As for multiclassing, Cleric is also always a great choice due to sharing WIS as important stat.
Great points. I have no experience with way of open hand but your arguments are very compelling.
Cleric (and Druid) are easy stats wise but I don't find their abilities to be very complimentary to Monk. I might just not have played the right one. Maybe a tempest Cleric and a 4-elements Monk?
Oddly enough monks are I think meant to be skirmishers but are actually not that great at it....
They have good movement but not a way to disengage once you get there without spending ki.
They have a lot of attacks but if you use them you can't disengage and attack on the same turn.
Their damage is only average if you use Flurry of blows.... Which you can't use and disengage in the same turn.
They lack a reach weapon option unless you go kensei or have a racial Prof/multi class dip to use whips for dedicated weapon.
Match this with average AC they are not really good to run in and attack and leave.
Overall I think monks suffer more from their design intent than other classes and ultimately become stun machines after level 5 if you want to skirmish.
Rogues are actually much much better skirmishers as they get all their damage and can disengage in the same turn.
They have good movement but not a way to disengage once you get there without spending ki.
If you are playing a shadow monk you do. They have the best disengage in the game as long as you are not in bright light. And if you are in bright light, you can cast darkness and change that.
More to the point though, lack of diesengage is not nearly as big a deal as people it out to be. An AOO is only 1 attack, they only get it if they have not used their reaction and if they miss it does no damage anyway. So unless you are fighting a Dragon or purple worm just move and take the AOO, usually damage is not enough to be overly concerned with.
Even if you have the Ki and the bonus action and are going to cause an AOO, in many cases patient defense is often a better use of ki than step of the wind. Take patient defense and cause disadvantage against all attacks that come your way instead of canceling only attacks on your turn.
Teamwork helps with this a good bit too, especially if you have a super-high AC tank in the party. I am playing a game right now as a bladesinger and we have a monk in the party. I will purposely trigger AOOs just to open opportunities and lanes for her.
Rogues are actually much much better skirmishers as they get all their damage and can disengage in the same turn.
The problem with Rogues in this regard is they have a ton of things to use their bonus for. Bonus action disengage with a Rogue does not cost ki, but it does cost a bonus action and on a Rogue that is a high price to pay, especially if you are an arcane trickster or a thief. You are giving up battlefield control to disengage. And Rogues also generally have a worse AC than a Monk, so they get hit more by AOOs if they do not disengage.
I find few people play Arcane Tricksters or Theives in an optimized fashion in combat. In combat those classes should be like the kid in home alone fighting the robbers. Dropping caltrops, laying down a trap you created on your short rest, picking pockets, dumping oil, etc in the middle of combat (in addition to attacking once a turn). If you are doing that it is quite costly to use a bonus action for disengage.
They have good movement but not a way to disengage once you get there without spending ki.
If you are playing a shadow monk you do. They have the best disengage in the game as long as you are not in bright light. And if you are in bright light, you can cast darkness and change that.
More to the point though, lack of diesengage is not nearly as big a deal as people it out to be. An AOO is only 1 attack, they only get it if they have not used their reaction and if they miss it does no damage anyway. So unless you are fighting a Dragon or purple worm just move and take the AOO, usually damage is not enough to be overly concerned with.
Even if you have the Ki and the bonus action and are going to cause an AOO, in many cases patient defense is often a better use of ki than step of the wind. Take patient defense and cause disadvantage against all attacks that come your way instead of canceling only attacks on your turn.
Teamwork helps with this a good bit too, especially if you have a super-high AC tank in the party. I am playing a game right now as a bladesinger and we have a monk in the party. I will purposely trigger AOOs just to open opportunities and lanes for her.
Rogues are actually much much better skirmishers as they get all their damage and can disengage in the same turn.
The problem with Rogues in this regard is they have a ton of things to use their bonus for. Bonus action disengage with a Rogue does not cost ki, but it does cost a bonus action and on a Rogue that is a high price to pay, especially if you are an arcane trickster or a thief. You are giving up battlefield control to disengage. And Rogues also generally have a worse AC than a Monk, so they get hit more by AOOs if they do not disengage.
I find few people play Arcane Tricksters or Theives in an optimized fashion in combat. In combat those classes should be like the kid in home alone fighting the robbers. Dropping caltrops, laying down a trap you created on your short rest, picking pockets, dumping oil, etc in the middle of combat (in addition to attacking once a turn). If you are doing that it is quite costly to use a bonus action for disengage.
Rogues also get to halve damage as a reaction making the lower AC much much less impactful.
Also rogues get 100% of their damage from range from thrown weapons or a short bow and can still hide or dash which makes dodge less appealing because you can simply avoid all attacks vs still getting attacked at DIS.
Ultimately monks just need too much ki to do the skirmish thing well and pay for it with vastly lowered damage output where as the rouge gets 100% in every scenario
I'm DMing a campaigning for three level 2's: a druid, a barbarian, and a monk.
The monk and barbarian usually engage the enemy in close range combat well the druid stands far behind the line.
The monk, (with 15 hit points,) keeps getting knocked unconscious. The PC's are winning their fights, but well too often they have to expend healing resources on the monk (healing word, potions). Am I missing something, or are monks supposed to be ranged combatants, if not, then are monks known for being flimsy, and is there anything I can do to avoid devastating the monk?
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D&D Beyond FoundersMonks excel at battlefield disruption - they have a lot of abilities to allow them to move around the battlefield, gaining advantage for their side.
By that I mean, consider a battle formation with an enemy wizard, having several warriors infront of them - whilst a barbarian or fighter will move in and engage the warriors, the party monk might use Step of the Wind, leaping over the heads of the warriors, to attack the wizard, striking them to break a concentration spell.
If a monk is played in such a way that they just move forward into battle in the way a barbarian, fighter, or paladin might - they will feel weaker, yes.
Additionally, monks are often stealthy, as well as highly mobile, allowing them to also be competent at infiltration.
They're also fast, and can "kite" melee opponents at times, without having to worry about being caught and cornered.
Once they've gained a few levels, monks also gain features like Deflect Missiles, and Evasion, that allow them to completely avoid certain types of damage in a fight.
I personally love playing monks, but playing an effective monk requires a good knowledge of all of their features.
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HERE.It might be more effective if the Druid Wild Shapes to something scary and charges into the fray with the Barbarian while the Monk strikes at the back field opponents. With Flurry of Blows, chances are they will most likely disrupt concentration spells, and with Stunning Strike the Monk can stun a key opponent and then safely leave that creature’s reach to take cover between turns.
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The monk being a combatant with few hit points must find a way to use his movement to attack and move away from the melee, like a normal rogue does. The problem is that the monk lacks a practical way to disengage from melee without having to use ki or suffer opportunity attacks. So I recommend taking the "Mobile" feat or if human variant the "Crusher" feat.
There are other systems, such as "Step of the Wind", or the "open hand techniques", or the "Astral self" reach combat, etc. Unfortunately, these cost ki points.
There are races like the Goblin that disengage as a bonus action, but this would cause you to lose one if not two unarmed attacks every turn.
For beginning monks I strongly recommend the variant human race with the Crusher talent. The only disadvantage you might have is darkvision.
It may also be good to create scenarios where the monk can shine, such as the example offered by Stormknight.
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A second level monk can be a challenge as they have yet to access many of their key features and their Ki pool is so limited. One thing you can be doing as a DM is considering how many short rests are available, as Ki replenishes on a short rest. More short rests allows the Monk more opportunity to use Step of the Wind, Patient Defense and Flurry of Blows. The Monk should also be encouraged to use a weapon if they are not already; both Quarterstaff and Spear do 1d8 plus attribute modifier when wielded two hands, and still allow an Unarmed Blow or a Flurry of Blows as a Bonus Action. Finally, the low level Monk in my party finds Patient Defense very useful, especially when being targeted by multiple opponents and disengaging is difficult. Since it allows Dodge as a Bonus Action, the Monk can still make a melee attack with their weapon as their action and move their base movement while still making themselves very difficult to hit. Against opponents with poor base chances to hit, it can work out better than Step of the Wind (Disengage) as the opponents use their reactions in a fruitless attempt to land attacks of opportunity on the Monk.
As Nicandor said, level 2 can be rough. Short rests and Patient Defense or Step of the Wind should be priority over Flurry of Blows or their Bonus Action attack. Maybe not round one if they are at full HP and can take a hit. But once they are in the fight and can be taken down in one round then it’s time to start disengaging or dodging with the Bonus Action.
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Monks at low levels are weak melee combatants not enough ki points to be effective. I recommend player use hit and run tactics and focus on spell caster. Once stunning strike is available then focus battle control
My Monk is level 13 now and I am a fearsome, solid front line fighter, standing alongside our Fighter and Barbarian easily and holding my own. This started to work well around level 8-9 without burning through too much Ki. He's Open Hand, so always had a free walk away after using FoB (about the most efficient use of my Ki, I find) as Open Hand lets FoB remove the target's reaction. Around level 8-9, I had come across enough items and gained enough ASI's that my Unarmored Defense was high enough to make getting hit a lot less common. If the enemies were pretty big hitters and we wanted to spread the hurt, I would usually take my 2 attacks, then stay in range and Step for a Dodge stance. Disadvantage and my high AC meant a lot more misses than hits. Mind, I still have lower HP than a "proper" frontliner, so when the hits do start landing, it's time to step away and change tactic.
Tell your player the early levels of Monk are tough, as we do have low AC and low HP, but our strengths do run to being up there in the face of the foe. You didn't mention which path he/she took, which might help folks offer some tips or suggestions. The subclasses are different enough that there are several different ways to play, depending on subclass.
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The poll really needs an option for neither; as Stormknight says Monks are not straight up frontline fighters.
They are fast, flexible combatants who fight in the frontline in bursts (depending upon Ki), but you really want to use them to strike at key targets like a Rogue wherever possible. They also have elements of control in Stunning Strike and various sub-class features.
I put melee in the poll because most Monks don't excel at range; the main exception is the Kensei, who can fight very effectively with a longbow but is still solid in melee if they need to be. But again, your aim is not to get stuck trading blows in melee, you want to strike where it matters and then move on as much as possible.
Once you have more Ki you can do this easily, but at the lower levels it's trickier; I don't think they're bad at a low level by any means, and in some ways it's good that you're forced to ration your Ki early as it trains you to still do it later on even once you have loads more, because spending Ki on the right thing at the right time is often much more effective than burning it all on Flurry of Blows (though some sub-classes benefit a lot from doing so, like Open Hand or Way of Mercy).
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Basically barbarians, fighters and paladins are front line tanks, monks, rogues and rangers are high mobility skirmishers that try to avoid tanking while maneuvering for the foe’s squishies in the back.
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This is almost word for word what I came here to say.
I've got a Shadow Monk in my current campaign who started out trying to be a front line fighter, always going toe-to-toe with the bad guys like he was a Barbarian or something. He got rather frustrated with combat because he ended up at zero hit points a lot. That type of combat simply doesn't work for Monks. We're at 17th level now and he's the ultimate skirmisher, attacking from out of nowhere, then fading back into the shadows. He also walks on walls, dives off cliffs, deflects ballista bolts, and stuns giant monsters.
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Monks are meant to be melee fighters, Monks are not meant to be tanks. In the party you describe the Druid will be a better tank than the Monk.
Monks can be good ranged fighters too. Ranged or melee you can be good up until 10th level or so. After that you probably want to multiclass.
The key with a Monk is do NOT use flurry of blows (like ever) and when fighting a very powerful melee enemy do not stay engaged unless you stun the enemy. Either use step of the wind or shadow step away if you are a shadow Monk. If you have to stay engaged use patient defense. If you are out of Ki or use your bonus for something else take the AOO and move away (hopefully with a blocker) as most enemies have multiattack, better to take 1 attack as an AOO then 2+ on his turn.
When it comes to subclass Shadow Monk is by far the best subclass for a melee Monk. In levels 4-6 when a shadow Monk can cast more spells than an equal level Warlock and about as many as a Wizard (more than a Wizard with several short rests a day). Darkness is also great for a Monk because it eleminates AOOs. Go in and attack (normal no disadvantage because the enemy cant see you (advantage) plus you cants see the enemy (disadvantage)). The only other two I would consider are Kensie or Mercy but neither of these are as good on a melee Monk IMO.
Regardless of which subclass you play though, Monk loses steam fast after level 10. That is the time to multiclass. For a melee oriented character Fighter, or Ranger are good options, wizard or warlock are good too if you have the stats.
Great points. I have no experience with way of open hand but your arguments are very compelling.
Cleric (and Druid) are easy stats wise but I don't find their abilities to be very complimentary to Monk. I might just not have played the right one. Maybe a tempest Cleric and a 4-elements Monk?
Oddly enough monks are I think meant to be skirmishers but are actually not that great at it....
They have good movement but not a way to disengage once you get there without spending ki.
They have a lot of attacks but if you use them you can't disengage and attack on the same turn.
Their damage is only average if you use Flurry of blows.... Which you can't use and disengage in the same turn.
They lack a reach weapon option unless you go kensei or have a racial Prof/multi class dip to use whips for dedicated weapon.
Match this with average AC they are not really good to run in and attack and leave.
Overall I think monks suffer more from their design intent than other classes and ultimately become stun machines after level 5 if you want to skirmish.
Rogues are actually much much better skirmishers as they get all their damage and can disengage in the same turn.
If you are playing a shadow monk you do. They have the best disengage in the game as long as you are not in bright light. And if you are in bright light, you can cast darkness and change that.
More to the point though, lack of diesengage is not nearly as big a deal as people it out to be. An AOO is only 1 attack, they only get it if they have not used their reaction and if they miss it does no damage anyway. So unless you are fighting a Dragon or purple worm just move and take the AOO, usually damage is not enough to be overly concerned with.
Even if you have the Ki and the bonus action and are going to cause an AOO, in many cases patient defense is often a better use of ki than step of the wind. Take patient defense and cause disadvantage against all attacks that come your way instead of canceling only attacks on your turn.
Teamwork helps with this a good bit too, especially if you have a super-high AC tank in the party. I am playing a game right now as a bladesinger and we have a monk in the party. I will purposely trigger AOOs just to open opportunities and lanes for her.
The problem with Rogues in this regard is they have a ton of things to use their bonus for. Bonus action disengage with a Rogue does not cost ki, but it does cost a bonus action and on a Rogue that is a high price to pay, especially if you are an arcane trickster or a thief. You are giving up battlefield control to disengage. And Rogues also generally have a worse AC than a Monk, so they get hit more by AOOs if they do not disengage.
I find few people play Arcane Tricksters or Theives in an optimized fashion in combat. In combat those classes should be like the kid in home alone fighting the robbers. Dropping caltrops, laying down a trap you created on your short rest, picking pockets, dumping oil, etc in the middle of combat (in addition to attacking once a turn). If you are doing that it is quite costly to use a bonus action for disengage.
Rogues also get to halve damage as a reaction making the lower AC much much less impactful.
Also rogues get 100% of their damage from range from thrown weapons or a short bow and can still hide or dash which makes dodge less appealing because you can simply avoid all attacks vs still getting attacked at DIS.
Ultimately monks just need too much ki to do the skirmish thing well and pay for it with vastly lowered damage output where as the rouge gets 100% in every scenario