I know that Shape Water does not allow me to deal damage with moving water. But my question is if I used the movement to enter someones body with Shape Water and move it to where the brain would be and freeze it. How would that work?
While Shape Water allows you to either move water 5 feet, or freeze it, or manipulate its shape, you can only do two at a time. So you could fashion it into a dart shape to fit up a creatures nose... or in the ear... or something... you wouldn't be able to freeze it.
You've already touched on the fact that you can’t deal damage with it by force, but you also can’t freeze it if there are any creatures present within it. The spell only affects water you can see, too. In the event you were able to move the water inside a creature, you’d not be able to see it in order to freeze it - although if anatomy worked in a way where you could move water direct to the brain, freezing it is the least of their worries.
If you tried this, I imagine you'd simply end up splashing a creature in the face with some water.
Other question: can one "dig" in to body of water?
I imagine this as shaping water in to a walls and animate this walls to move to sides of the 5 feet cube they are in and fix there. Doing this as part of second option you should be able to create, move and fix the water walls in same round. As water can't go through water (or through your water walls) this might make the space between walls to be filled with air. Then you pick next 5 feet cube of water (including the far wall of previous cube) and repeat. As spell effect persists for 1 hour, you will have an air filled tube inside the body of water for the next hour minus time you spent to create it (like 1 round per 5 feet). Water walls definitely can't support your weight, as they are ... you know, just water, but If you position this tunnel near the bottom of the pound, you can actually walk bottom across the pound without need of water breathing and the like.
You can only have two instances active at once, so at most you could make a 10 ft tunnel. Perhaps if you were undisturbed you could tunnel continuously for a while by collapsing behind as you went, but that small space would only fit one or two people, and would run out of air eventually.
While Shape Water allows you to either move water 5 feet, or freeze it, or manipulate its shape, you can only do two at a time. So you could fashion it into a dart shape to fit up a creatures nose... or in the ear... or something... you wouldn't be able to freeze it.
You've already touched on the fact that you can’t deal damage with it by force, but you also can’t freeze it if there are any creatures present within it. The spell only affects water you can see, too. In the event you were able to move the water inside a creature, you’d not be able to see it in order to freeze it - although if anatomy worked in a way where you could move water direct to the brain, freezing it is the least of their worries.
If you tried this, I imagine you'd simply end up splashing a creature in the face with some water.
I admire the creativity though!
That's not quite right. You can have two of the non-instantaneous uses active at once (shape, color, freeze), but you can also use rounds to do the instantaneous five foot movement using other rounds. Round 1 shape, round 2 freeze in that shape, round 3+ move that shaped ice is an allowable use of the cantrip.
That being said, it is not a damaging spell, and you cannot do damage with it no matter what "realistic" chain of events you try to recreate with it. Don't think of it as a simulation of what moving and freezing water would "really" do, be content with the fact that it is a game ability that is written to have the limitation that it cannot cause damage in combat.
While Shape Water allows you to either move water 5 feet, or freeze it, or manipulate its shape, you can only do two at a time. So you could fashion it into a dart shape to fit up a creatures nose... or in the ear... or something... you wouldn't be able to freeze it.
You've already touched on the fact that you can’t deal damage with it by force, but you also can’t freeze it if there are any creatures present within it. The spell only affects water you can see, too. In the event you were able to move the water inside a creature, you’d not be able to see it in order to freeze it - although if anatomy worked in a way where you could move water direct to the brain, freezing it is the least of their worries.
If you tried this, I imagine you'd simply end up splashing a creature in the face with some water.
I admire the creativity though!
That's not quite right. You can have two of the non-instantaneous uses active at once (shape, color, freeze), but you can also use rounds to do the instantaneous five foot movement using other rounds. Round 1 shape, round 2 freeze in that shape, round 3+ move that shaped ice is an allowable use of the cantrip.
That being said, it is not a damaging spell, and you cannot do damage with it no matter what "realistic" chain of events you try to recreate with it. Don't think of it as a simulation of what moving and freezing water would "really" do, be content with the fact that it is a game ability that is written to have the limitation that it cannot cause damage in combat.
What about using Shape Water to bind a creature? For example, using the water to circle around the creature's body or hands and then freezing the water. The creature isn't technically in the water, so theoretically it should be able to work, right?
Insofar as you can use Shape Water to shape water into simple shapes, and then the following round freeze it to hold that rigid shape for its duration... yes, manacles or a wad of ice around both hands is probably simple enough to shape, and then can be frozen in place. You aren't using the spell to impose the Restrained condition (which isn't allowed any more than it's allowed to deal damage), but you are using the spell to create an object which then might be used like any other object of its type (which is allowed). That's not an exploit of a loophole, that's specifically what the spell is supposed to let you do.
My DM allowed me to use wall of water to block a door and then use shape water to freeze it so the door is blocked...i am questioning the legality of that move (outside of combat) even though i used it myself and felt good that it worked
Insofar as you can use Shape Water to shape water into simple shapes, and then the following round freeze it to hold that rigid shape for its duration... yes, manacles or a wad of ice around both hands is probably simple enough to shape, and then can be frozen in place. You aren't using the spell to impose the Restrained condition (which isn't allowed any more than it's allowed to deal damage), but you are using the spell to create an object which then might be used like any other object of its type (which is allowed). That's not an exploit of a loophole, that's specifically what the spell is supposed to let you do.
I wouldn't allow this, as the freeze mechanic clearly states that the amount of water you freeze cannot have a creature in it. I count part of a creature as a creature per the easiest common english understanding of that rule, as you wouldn't be able to freeze someone swimming or wading either, and that is also technically part of a creature in the water. It's the same reason why I wouldn't allow you to force water into a person and then freeze it, per the OP's question
My DM allowed me to use wall of water to block a door and then use shape water to freeze it so the door is blocked...i am questioning the legality of that move (outside of combat) even though i used it myself and felt good that it worked
I see absolutely no reason why this wouldn't have worked, it seems a perfectly RAW use of the spell, unless you were wanting to 1) damage the door or 2) freeze a creature standing in front of the door.
Shape water says that, "You choose an area of water that you can see within range and that fits within a 5-foot cube. "
A 5 ft cube of water weighs around 7800 pounds. The spell then says "You manipulate it in one of the following ways: You instantaneously move or otherwise change the flow of the water as you direct, up to 5 feet in any direction. This movement doesn’t have enough force to cause damage." No worries, if holding its position you could just keep moving the water upwards in 5 foot increments. You get it to whatever desired height and positioning within range and: "You freeze the water, provided that there are no creatures in it. The water unfreezes in 1 hour."
Gravity might then do the rest. a large falling block of ice might break into any number of pieces but this might be by way of a significant impact.
Shape water says that, "You choose an area of water that you can see within range and that fits within a 5-foot cube. "
A 5 ft cube of water weighs around 7800 pounds. The spell then says "You manipulate it in one of the following ways: You instantaneously move or otherwise change the flow of the water as you direct, up to 5 feet in any direction. This movement doesn’t have enough force to cause damage." No worries, if holding its position you could just keep moving the water upwards in 5 foot increments. You get it to whatever desired height and positioning within range and: "You freeze the water, provided that there are no creatures in it. The water unfreezes in 1 hour."
Gravity might then do the rest. a large falling block of ice might break into any number of pieces but this might be by way of a significant impact.
Should work fine, just remember it's got a 30ft range.
Shape water says that, "You choose an area of water that you can see within range and that fits within a 5-foot cube. "
A 5 ft cube of water weighs around 7800 pounds. The spell then says "You manipulate it in one of the following ways: You instantaneously move or otherwise change the flow of the water as you direct, up to 5 feet in any direction. This movement doesn’t have enough force to cause damage." No worries, if holding its position you could just keep moving the water upwards in 5 foot increments. You get it to whatever desired height and positioning within range and: "You freeze the water, provided that there are no creatures in it. The water unfreezes in 1 hour."
Gravity might then do the rest. a large falling block of ice might break into any number of pieces but this might be by way of a significant impact.
Should work fine, just remember it's got a 30ft range.
Also, to achieve this would take about 5-6 rounds of time (1 round per 5' moved + 1 round to freeze), making a combat usage of this combo limited.
Shape water says that, "You choose an area of water that you can see within range and that fits within a 5-foot cube. "
A 5 ft cube of water weighs around 7800 pounds. The spell then says "You manipulate it in one of the following ways: You instantaneously move or otherwise change the flow of the water as you direct, up to 5 feet in any direction. This movement doesn’t have enough force to cause damage." No worries,if holding its position you could just keep moving the water upwards in 5 foot increments. You get it to whatever desired height and positioning within range and: "You freeze the water, provided that there are no creatures in it. The water unfreezes in 1 hour."
Gravity might then do the rest. a large falling block of ice might break into any number of pieces but this might be by way of a significant impact.
I don't see any evidence that this spell holds the position of the water beyond its stated duration. Instantaneous means you do the thing and then the spell is over. When the spell is over the water flows to the lowest point it can reach. If this was maintained movement, it would be a concentration spell or the bullet would be given a special duration like all the others.
The real question is, where it states “You choose an area of water that you can see within range and that fits within a 5-foot cube,” which of the following two interpretations do they mean?
”Choose an area no larger than a 5-foot cube containing visible water.”
”Choose an area you can see no larger than a 5-foot cube that contains water.”
Must one be able to see the water actual itself, or just the he area in which the water exists? For example, is a caster could see a visibly full waterskin (or other container known to contain water), but not the actual water contained within that skin, could a caster use this spell to affect that water?
The real question is, where it states “You choose an area of water that you can see within range and that fits within a 5-foot cube,” which of the following two interpretations do they mean?
”Choose an area no larger than a 5-foot cube containing visible water.”
”Choose an area you can see no larger than a 5-foot cube that contains water.”
Must one be able to see the water actual itself, or just the he area in which the water exists? For example, is a caster could see a visibly full waterskin (or other container known to contain water), but not the actual water contained within that skin, could a caster use this spell to affect that water?
As it talks of "an area of water ... within a 5-foot cube" I think a logical interpretation is that it's talking (badly) about a volume subset within the cube that is water. The problem is that d&d english is used using the word area so the phrase becomes ambiguous. It's open to interpretation. Personally, I'd allow a central volume of water within a skin or water within a lock to be frozen or water within clothing to be extracted even though it would be the 'area' not necessarily the water/all the water that is seen.
The real question is, where it states “You choose an area of water that you can see within range and that fits within a 5-foot cube,” which of the following two interpretations do they mean?
”Choose an area no larger than a 5-foot cube containing visible water.”
”Choose an area you can see no larger than a 5-foot cube that contains water.”
Must one be able to see the water actual itself, or just the he area in which the water exists? For example, is a caster could see a visibly full waterskin (or other container known to contain water), but not the actual water contained within that skin, could a caster use this spell to affect that water?
As it talks of "an area of water ... within a 5-foot cube" I think a logical interpretation is that it's talking (badly) about a volume subset within the cube that is water. The problem is that d&d english is used using the word area so the phrase becomes ambiguous. It's open to interpretation. Personally, I'd allow a central volume of water within a skin or water within a lock to be frozen or water within clothing to be extracted even though it would be the 'area' not necessarily the water/all the water that is seen.
Alright. In that case, I would like to request a favor if I may. Please follow out the logic of what I’m about to propose and and poke a hole in it for me. I honestly haven’t been able to logically come up with a single reason better than “it isn’t sposta work that way.” RAI is nice, but RAW is indisputable. I would prefer to be able to point to the word or phrase that proves it wrong. (Heck, I’ll even settle for a significantly located comma.) So, here goes:
Suppose there is a visible rain catcher or barrel within shape water’s, 30 ft range. However LoS prevents the caster from seeing the actual water within the container. If that caster targets the square in which they can see that container, would it work? (Aside from the wording we both agree is not explicitly clear, I can’t see any logical reasons to say “no.”
Same scenario, but that barrel is lidded? I mean, it’s not as if the lid makes the contents any less visible than it already was. Right? So… I mean…. Why not?
Again, same question, but now we’re up to that waterskin step I opened with. And again, same answer. I can’t really point to any reason to say “no” except to interpret the wording to require that the liquid itself be visible, but I also already put that down with that open barrel two “why nots” ago. So….
However, a waterskin is essentially just a sack or “bag” designed to be impermeable when closed. There are about a dozen slight variations on the definition of a “bag,” but distilled down to the most universally common elements you get “a flexible container.” I honestly cannot think of a single person alive who knows what a waterskin is that would argue that a waterskin is not “a flexible container designed to be impermeable when closed.” (Not even my wife, and if I say “white,” the next word outta her mouth will be “black.”)
So, if a caster can shape water within a “closed, flexible container of water,” then it really shouldn’t matter if it is an actual waterskin, as long as it still counts as “an area* of water that you can see within range and that fits within a 5-foot cube.*” Right? *(Wanna talk about “unclear” wording? “Area” defines a space on a 2d plain, but a cube is a 3d shape. It should state “a volume of…” or better yet “an amount of….” 🙄)
Okay, we’ll then…. Now we get to the part I need someone to blow a hole in; (ready?):
Technically, most Humanoids, Beasts, Plants (and likely many other creatures) could technically be defined as “a flexible container designed to be impermeable when closed,” the contents of which are about 60% water. Yes, a person could theoretically be defined as “a bag of water.” Ergo, if one could cast shape water targeting a 5-foot cube, and any containers of water wholly within that space would be affected. RAW, most Medium or smaller creatures technicality fit within a 5-foot cube. Now, I can point to RAW and say “no freezing allowed.” However (here’s where it gets good)….
I happen to have not only learned some stuff about anatomy, I actually remember some of it. I remember stuff like:
“Brains are important, without them people die.”
”Water is important for brains to be healthy.”
”Brains and their stems are suspended in liquid as a means of shock absorption and pressure regulation.”
”If there is either too much cerebrospinal fluid around the brain, or not enough of it, it adversely affects brain health.”
Suppose one were to cast shape water on a 5-foot cube of space in which exists a humanoid, and shape all of the water inside those containers wholly within that space those containers go “up.” The average human apparently weighs approximately 62kg, and has an approximate volume of 62,000cc. I happen to know that if one were to suddenly fI’ll a person’s skill with around 40,000cc (almost 90lbs) of water, there is likely to be one of three outcomes: either the skull would burst like a balloon, the brain would be crushed to jelly under the pressure, or both of those things would happen. And I also happen to know any of those three things would result in instant death to the person using the skull and brain.
So, someone, anyone, please tell me that there is an actual RAW reason this Cantrip cannot instantly kill almost any Medium or smaller creature from 30 feet away without either an attack roll or saving throw required.
I personally agree that a caster should be able to cast shape water on water that can't actually be seen in situations that an object that is clearly a container is seen. Perhaps a DC check might be required but, as I'd personally allow some amount of retries, for me that would be potentially moot.
I see two issues regarding an attempt to use this spell to cause freezing within a creature. First, the spell specifies the possibility with a condition that "You freeze the water, provided that there are no creatures in it." Second, fluids within a creature will not typically be defined as water. Types of bodily fluids begin with blood but many other significant types of biological fluid can also be found. I'd argue that the fact that people can be described as "bags of mostly water" (per Douglas Adams) is irrelevant. In specific cases the fluids involved tend to be described differently.
Parallel questions might be posed as to when, say, muddy water becomes sludge but, basically, shape water can work in cases when a DM considers that a targetted fluid fits the description water.
I absolutely 100% agree that freezing the water within a creature is specifically prohibited because if the water is within a creature, then by default a creature is in the area. But that same restriction is notably absent from the other bullet points of the spell, and is not part of the main description so it doesn’t apply to those applications.
As a DM, I would be inclined to rule that casting shape water on a 5-foot cube of mud with the intention of using that very first bullet point could theoretically move the water content of that mud up to 5 feet, leaving most of the dirt behind. It couldn’t separate things entirely, surely not enough to purify the water to the point of making it potable. But if it could move the water within mud, then why not the water within blood? I mean, at least enough to move it within the same space it already occupies. It could pick a puddle up 5 feet strait up into the air. So just moving the water within a container to elsewhere within that same container should work. Right?
Another way to look at it, mold earth couldn’t remove the dirt from the mud because it specifies “an area of loose dirt.” But shape water contains no such restrictions on density.
I know that Shape Water does not allow me to deal damage with moving water. But my question is if I used the movement to enter someones body with Shape Water and move it to where the brain would be and freeze it. How would that work?
Short answer? It wouldn’t, I'm afraid.
While Shape Water allows you to either move water 5 feet, or freeze it, or manipulate its shape, you can only do two at a time. So you could fashion it into a dart shape to fit up a creatures nose... or in the ear... or something... you wouldn't be able to freeze it.
You've already touched on the fact that you can’t deal damage with it by force, but you also can’t freeze it if there are any creatures present within it. The spell only affects water you can see, too. In the event you were able to move the water inside a creature, you’d not be able to see it in order to freeze it - although if anatomy worked in a way where you could move water direct to the brain, freezing it is the least of their worries.
If you tried this, I imagine you'd simply end up splashing a creature in the face with some water.
I admire the creativity though!
Other question: can one "dig" in to body of water?
I imagine this as shaping water in to a walls and animate this walls to move to sides of the 5 feet cube they are in and fix there. Doing this as part of second option you should be able to create, move and fix the water walls in same round. As water can't go through water (or through your water walls) this might make the space between walls to be filled with air. Then you pick next 5 feet cube of water (including the far wall of previous cube) and repeat. As spell effect persists for 1 hour, you will have an air filled tube inside the body of water for the next hour minus time you spent to create it (like 1 round per 5 feet). Water walls definitely can't support your weight, as they are ... you know, just water, but If you position this tunnel near the bottom of the pound, you can actually walk bottom across the pound without need of water breathing and the like.
You can only have two instances active at once, so at most you could make a 10 ft tunnel. Perhaps if you were undisturbed you could tunnel continuously for a while by collapsing behind as you went, but that small space would only fit one or two people, and would run out of air eventually.
That's not quite right. You can have two of the non-instantaneous uses active at once (shape, color, freeze), but you can also use rounds to do the instantaneous five foot movement using other rounds. Round 1 shape, round 2 freeze in that shape, round 3+ move that shaped ice is an allowable use of the cantrip.
That being said, it is not a damaging spell, and you cannot do damage with it no matter what "realistic" chain of events you try to recreate with it. Don't think of it as a simulation of what moving and freezing water would "really" do, be content with the fact that it is a game ability that is written to have the limitation that it cannot cause damage in combat.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Ah yes, my mistake - good catch.
Crap, my bad. ))) Was so alluring to use it this way.
What about using Shape Water to bind a creature? For example, using the water to circle around the creature's body or hands and then freezing the water. The creature isn't technically in the water, so theoretically it should be able to work, right?
Insofar as you can use Shape Water to shape water into simple shapes, and then the following round freeze it to hold that rigid shape for its duration... yes, manacles or a wad of ice around both hands is probably simple enough to shape, and then can be frozen in place. You aren't using the spell to impose the Restrained condition (which isn't allowed any more than it's allowed to deal damage), but you are using the spell to create an object which then might be used like any other object of its type (which is allowed). That's not an exploit of a loophole, that's specifically what the spell is supposed to let you do.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
My DM allowed me to use wall of water to block a door and then use shape water to freeze it so the door is blocked...i am questioning the legality of that move (outside of combat) even though i used it myself and felt good that it worked
I wouldn't allow this, as the freeze mechanic clearly states that the amount of water you freeze cannot have a creature in it. I count part of a creature as a creature per the easiest common english understanding of that rule, as you wouldn't be able to freeze someone swimming or wading either, and that is also technically part of a creature in the water. It's the same reason why I wouldn't allow you to force water into a person and then freeze it, per the OP's question
I see absolutely no reason why this wouldn't have worked, it seems a perfectly RAW use of the spell, unless you were wanting to 1) damage the door or 2) freeze a creature standing in front of the door.
Shape water says that, "You choose an area of water that you can see within range and that fits within a 5-foot cube. "
A 5 ft cube of water weighs around 7800 pounds.
The spell then says "You manipulate it in one of the following ways:
You instantaneously move or otherwise change the flow of the water as you direct, up to 5 feet in any direction. This movement doesn’t have enough force to cause damage."
No worries, if holding its position you could just keep moving the water upwards in 5 foot increments. You get it to whatever desired height and positioning within range and:
"You freeze the water, provided that there are no creatures in it. The water unfreezes in 1 hour."
Gravity might then do the rest. a large falling block of ice might break into any number of pieces but this might be by way of a significant impact.
Should work fine, just remember it's got a 30ft range.
Also, to achieve this would take about 5-6 rounds of time (1 round per 5' moved + 1 round to freeze), making a combat usage of this combo limited.
I don't see any evidence that this spell holds the position of the water beyond its stated duration. Instantaneous means you do the thing and then the spell is over. When the spell is over the water flows to the lowest point it can reach. If this was maintained movement, it would be a concentration spell or the bullet would be given a special duration like all the others.
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The real question is, where it states “You choose an area of water that you can see within range and that fits within a 5-foot cube,” which of the following two interpretations do they mean?
Must one be able to see the water actual itself, or just the he area in which the water exists? For example, is a caster could see a visibly full waterskin (or other container known to contain water), but not the actual water contained within that skin, could a caster use this spell to affect that water?
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As it talks of "an area of water ... within a 5-foot cube" I think a logical interpretation is that it's talking (badly) about a volume subset within the cube that is water. The problem is that d&d english is used using the word area so the phrase becomes ambiguous.
It's open to interpretation.
Personally, I'd allow a central volume of water within a skin or water within a lock to be frozen or water within clothing to be extracted even though it would be the 'area' not necessarily the water/all the water that is seen.
Alright. In that case, I would like to request a favor if I may. Please follow out the logic of what I’m about to propose and and poke a hole in it for me. I honestly haven’t been able to logically come up with a single reason better than “it isn’t sposta work that way.” RAI is nice, but RAW is indisputable. I would prefer to be able to point to the word or phrase that proves it wrong. (Heck, I’ll even settle for a significantly located comma.) So, here goes:
Suppose there is a visible rain catcher or barrel within shape water’s, 30 ft range. However LoS prevents the caster from seeing the actual water within the container. If that caster targets the square in which they can see that container, would it work? (Aside from the wording we both agree is not explicitly clear, I can’t see any logical reasons to say “no.”
Same scenario, but that barrel is lidded? I mean, it’s not as if the lid makes the contents any less visible than it already was. Right? So… I mean…. Why not?
Again, same question, but now we’re up to that waterskin step I opened with. And again, same answer. I can’t really point to any reason to say “no” except to interpret the wording to require that the liquid itself be visible, but I also already put that down with that open barrel two “why nots” ago. So….
However, a waterskin is essentially just a sack or “bag” designed to be impermeable when closed. There are about a dozen slight variations on the definition of a “bag,” but distilled down to the most universally common elements you get “a flexible container.” I honestly cannot think of a single person alive who knows what a waterskin is that would argue that a waterskin is not “a flexible container designed to be impermeable when closed.” (Not even my wife, and if I say “white,” the next word outta her mouth will be “black.”)
So, if a caster can shape water within a “closed, flexible container of water,” then it really shouldn’t matter if it is an actual waterskin, as long as it still counts as “an area* of water that you can see within range and that fits within a 5-foot cube.*” Right?
*(Wanna talk about “unclear” wording? “Area” defines a space on a 2d plain, but a cube is a 3d shape. It should state “a volume of…” or better yet “an amount of….” 🙄)
Okay, we’ll then…. Now we get to the part I need someone to blow a hole in; (ready?):
Technically, most Humanoids, Beasts, Plants (and likely many other creatures) could technically be defined as “a flexible container designed to be impermeable when closed,” the contents of which are about 60% water. Yes, a person could theoretically be defined as “a bag of water.” Ergo, if one could cast shape water targeting a 5-foot cube, and any containers of water wholly within that space would be affected. RAW, most Medium or smaller creatures technicality fit within a 5-foot cube. Now, I can point to RAW and say “no freezing allowed.” However (here’s where it gets good)….
I happen to have not only learned some stuff about anatomy, I actually remember some of it. I remember stuff like:
Suppose one were to cast shape water on a 5-foot cube of space in which exists a humanoid, and shape all of the water inside those containers wholly within that space those containers go “up.” The average human apparently weighs approximately 62kg, and has an approximate volume of 62,000cc. I happen to know that if one were to suddenly fI’ll a person’s skill with around 40,000cc (almost 90lbs) of water, there is likely to be one of three outcomes: either the skull would burst like a balloon, the brain would be crushed to jelly under the pressure, or both of those things would happen. And I also happen to know any of those three things would result in instant death to the person using the skull and brain.
So, someone, anyone, please tell me that there is an actual RAW reason this Cantrip cannot instantly kill almost any Medium or smaller creature from 30 feet away without either an attack roll or saving throw required.
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I personally agree that a caster should be able to cast shape water on water that can't actually be seen in situations that an object that is clearly a container is seen. Perhaps a DC check might be required but, as I'd personally allow some amount of retries, for me that would be potentially moot.
I see two issues regarding an attempt to use this spell to cause freezing within a creature.
First, the spell specifies the possibility with a condition that "You freeze the water, provided that there are no creatures in it."
Second, fluids within a creature will not typically be defined as water. Types of bodily fluids begin with blood but many other significant types of biological fluid can also be found.
I'd argue that the fact that people can be described as "bags of mostly water" (per Douglas Adams) is irrelevant. In specific cases the fluids involved tend to be described differently.
Parallel questions might be posed as to when, say, muddy water becomes sludge but, basically, shape water can work in cases when a DM considers that a targetted fluid fits the description water.
I absolutely 100% agree that freezing the water within a creature is specifically prohibited because if the water is within a creature, then by default a creature is in the area. But that same restriction is notably absent from the other bullet points of the spell, and is not part of the main description so it doesn’t apply to those applications.
As a DM, I would be inclined to rule that casting shape water on a 5-foot cube of mud with the intention of using that very first bullet point could theoretically move the water content of that mud up to 5 feet, leaving most of the dirt behind. It couldn’t separate things entirely, surely not enough to purify the water to the point of making it potable. But if it could move the water within mud, then why not the water within blood? I mean, at least enough to move it within the same space it already occupies. It could pick a puddle up 5 feet strait up into the air. So just moving the water within a container to elsewhere within that same container should work. Right?
Another way to look at it, mold earth couldn’t remove the dirt from the mud because it specifies “an area of loose dirt.” But shape water contains no such restrictions on density.
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