Hey guys! First time actually typing out for help, appreciate the help in anyway!
Okay, so starting out as a Level 1 Satyr Bard (Eventually going to the College of Eloquence) that eventually will want to go into being a Sorcerer of the Aberrant Mind, this the first time I am playing not only a Charisma based character, but one that isn't always in the front lines. This Table I was invited to is usually about 60/40 when it comes to how much Roleplaying vs. how much Fighting you do, and I want my character to all be about the the Mind (Either messing with peoples heads or soothing them)
Main Question - What spells should I get? And what build should I be going for when it comes to how many levels in each Class?
Sorcerer is one of those classes where, if you're multiclassing into it, you're going to want to go mostly Sorcerer. The reason for this is because your Sorcery points are tied directly to your sorcerer level, and Sorcery points are the most valuable resource you have. Metamagic means customizing your spells in ways that completely change the game for you, and sorcery points can also be converted into Spell Slots in emergencies.
That said... Eloquence Bard is one of the best Bard Subclasses in the game, and gives you some really great features, especially in a game that leans more to roleplay than combat. Normally I'd recommend only a 3 level dip into another subclass when playing as a Sorcerer, but in this case I think it's worth it to go to 6th level bard to get Unfailing Inspiration, which is such a huge boon to your Bardic Inspiration.
So here's how I would take level progression... Start as a Sorcerer right at level 1. Mostly this is because you gain proficiency in CON saving throws by starting as a Sorcerer, but also because you get your subclass abilities right at level 1 as a Sorcerer, so you'll start with telepathic speech to nail home your mental-powered feel for your character. Then I would take 3 levels of bard to get to your Eloquence powers as soon as possible... when negotiation is happening, you'll be practically unstoppable, and your inspiration can be used to reduce someone else's save, making it easier to land mind control spells or whatever it is you attempt to cast.
After that I would put 2 more levels into Sorcerer to get to level 3 and finally get full access to Metamagic. I would take Extended Spell and Subtle Spell... Extended Spell makes any charm or misdirection spell you cast even more potent, because you can double the time it lasts. Now you can cast Charm Person and have it last a full two hours, drastically increasing your ability for espionage or trickery. Subtle Spell gives you the opportunity to cast these potent mental spells in social situations without drawing attention to yourself, and you can combine this with Unsettling Words from Eloquence bard to drastically increase your odds of success.
At this point I would just go 50/50 back and forth between the two until you hit 6th level in both classes. You'll hit two ASI's one right after the other as you hit 4th level in both classes. I'd spend the first ASI to increase your CHA, assuming its not max already, then spend the next ASI on the "Metamagic Adept" feat. This gives you two additional Metamagic Options, as well as two Sorcery points... this will help to compensate for missing out on 6 Sorcery points from your Bard multiclass. I won't recommend specific Metamagic for this feat... I think you'll have to base your decision on what would help in your specific campaign.
Finally, you're level 6 Eloquence Bard and Level 6 Aberrant Mind Sorcerer... after this, just go full Sorcerer for the rest of the game.
Anyway, spells are a little harder to nail down, but I'd say focus on anything that deals psychic damage or anything that charms or just, y'know... feels thematically appropriate.
The alternative to going mostly Sorcerer is to go either Sorcerer 1 and stop, or Sorcerer 2 w/ Metamagic Adept feat. At that point you’re doing it for the cantrips, the one subclass feature, and the RP. Sooner or later most Bards I build dip a level into Sorcerer to instantly double their cantrip count and gain access to better combat cantrips like Mind Sliver and Chill Touch, and a feature like favored by the gods is a nice piece of emergency glass to have just in case.
Note, IMO every caster class (including Paladin, Ranger, and Sorcerer) should get 1-2 additional known cantrips than they do. Warlocks got hosed for example because they only (eventually) get 4 and one of them is almost always Eldritch Blast so they really only get 3 since that should have been a class feature instead of a cantrip. I personally feel that Paladins & Rangers should get 2 cantrips, Warlocks should get 5, Wizards 6, and Sorcerers 8 cantrips known over their carriers. (So my opinion is admittedly biased in that regard.)
What are you trying to accomplish with the multi-class? You’re going to fall behind in spell progression, which is a big deal. There’s a huge difference in the power level spells, so you need a compelling reason to do so.
If it’s something you insist on doing, I would pick spells that scale well since your spell slot progression won’t be affected.
You could also get Twin Spell to double the effect of hold person/hold monster (eventually), charm person, etc. As has been suggested, I would say do a 3- or 6-level dip in sorcerer, but keep it mostly bard.
For spells, here are good low-level options. (Note that since you're multiclassing, you won't gain access to higher-level spells as quickly or at all, depending on your split.)
What are you trying to accomplish with the multi-class? You’re going to fall behind in spell progression, which is a big deal. There’s a huge difference in the power level spells, so you need a compelling reason to do so.
If it’s something you insist on doing, I would pick spells that scale well since your spell slot progression won’t be affected.
I'll second this. Why Aberrant Mind? A lot of people get hung up on the idea that they have to MC to reflect roleplay decisions, but unless you are angling for a particular mechanic you can RP having weird mental powers all you want without the MC (especially as a bard). There may also be feats that can give you a bit of a mechanical hook into your story progression without altering your class progression (Telepathic, Magic Initiate, Fey Touched).
Bard and sorcerer both give up a lot deferring their levels. Sorc needs all the metamagic it can get since the entire class hinges on those points. Your bard will get a serious boost to inspiration at levels 5 and 6. Third level spells are a huge boost to both classes that upcasting just can't compete with. You don't hear about this combo often because it just doesn't provide any synergy to make up for what you're losing.
Mainly I want to be Bard Out of Combat, and Sorcerer In Combat is what I thought about, I do realize I would be losing a lot, but I want to try and see what happens kind of Build, and Both Eloquence Bard & AM Sorcerer sounded interesting where I wanted to try different builds
Mainly I want to be Bard Out of Combat, and Sorcerer In Combat is what I thought about, I do realize I would be losing a lot, but I want to try and see what happens kind of Build, and Both Eloquence Bard & AM Sorcerer sounded interesting where I wanted to try different builds
A full Eloquence Bard will be way stronger in combat. They're actually really powerful unless you're only going for damage. Bards have a lot of "save or suck" spells like Blindness/Deafness and Hold Person. Being able to add a big debuff to enemy saves is huge for a spell caster. And when I say big, your enemies will average minus 3.5 to their saving throws at levels 1-4, minus 4.5 at level 5. It keeps going up.
Mixing classes will put you too far behind in spell progression.
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Hey guys! First time actually typing out for help, appreciate the help in anyway!
Okay, so starting out as a Level 1 Satyr Bard (Eventually going to the College of Eloquence) that eventually will want to go into being a Sorcerer of the Aberrant Mind, this the first time I am playing not only a Charisma based character, but one that isn't always in the front lines. This Table I was invited to is usually about 60/40 when it comes to how much Roleplaying vs. how much Fighting you do, and I want my character to all be about the the Mind (Either messing with peoples heads or soothing them)
Main Question - What spells should I get? And what build should I be going for when it comes to how many levels in each Class?
Sorcerer is one of those classes where, if you're multiclassing into it, you're going to want to go mostly Sorcerer. The reason for this is because your Sorcery points are tied directly to your sorcerer level, and Sorcery points are the most valuable resource you have. Metamagic means customizing your spells in ways that completely change the game for you, and sorcery points can also be converted into Spell Slots in emergencies.
That said... Eloquence Bard is one of the best Bard Subclasses in the game, and gives you some really great features, especially in a game that leans more to roleplay than combat. Normally I'd recommend only a 3 level dip into another subclass when playing as a Sorcerer, but in this case I think it's worth it to go to 6th level bard to get Unfailing Inspiration, which is such a huge boon to your Bardic Inspiration.
So here's how I would take level progression... Start as a Sorcerer right at level 1. Mostly this is because you gain proficiency in CON saving throws by starting as a Sorcerer, but also because you get your subclass abilities right at level 1 as a Sorcerer, so you'll start with telepathic speech to nail home your mental-powered feel for your character. Then I would take 3 levels of bard to get to your Eloquence powers as soon as possible... when negotiation is happening, you'll be practically unstoppable, and your inspiration can be used to reduce someone else's save, making it easier to land mind control spells or whatever it is you attempt to cast.
After that I would put 2 more levels into Sorcerer to get to level 3 and finally get full access to Metamagic. I would take Extended Spell and Subtle Spell... Extended Spell makes any charm or misdirection spell you cast even more potent, because you can double the time it lasts. Now you can cast Charm Person and have it last a full two hours, drastically increasing your ability for espionage or trickery. Subtle Spell gives you the opportunity to cast these potent mental spells in social situations without drawing attention to yourself, and you can combine this with Unsettling Words from Eloquence bard to drastically increase your odds of success.
At this point I would just go 50/50 back and forth between the two until you hit 6th level in both classes. You'll hit two ASI's one right after the other as you hit 4th level in both classes. I'd spend the first ASI to increase your CHA, assuming its not max already, then spend the next ASI on the "Metamagic Adept" feat. This gives you two additional Metamagic Options, as well as two Sorcery points... this will help to compensate for missing out on 6 Sorcery points from your Bard multiclass. I won't recommend specific Metamagic for this feat... I think you'll have to base your decision on what would help in your specific campaign.
Finally, you're level 6 Eloquence Bard and Level 6 Aberrant Mind Sorcerer... after this, just go full Sorcerer for the rest of the game.
Anyway, spells are a little harder to nail down, but I'd say focus on anything that deals psychic damage or anything that charms or just, y'know... feels thematically appropriate.
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The alternative to going mostly Sorcerer is to go either Sorcerer 1 and stop, or Sorcerer 2 w/ Metamagic Adept feat. At that point you’re doing it for the cantrips, the one subclass feature, and the RP. Sooner or later most Bards I build dip a level into Sorcerer to instantly double their cantrip count and gain access to better combat cantrips like Mind Sliver and Chill Touch, and a feature like favored by the gods is a nice piece of emergency glass to have just in case.
Note, IMO every caster class (including Paladin, Ranger, and Sorcerer) should get 1-2 additional known cantrips than they do. Warlocks got hosed for example because they only (eventually) get 4 and one of them is almost always Eldritch Blast so they really only get 3 since that should have been a class feature instead of a cantrip. I personally feel that Paladins & Rangers should get 2 cantrips, Warlocks should get 5, Wizards 6, and Sorcerers 8 cantrips known over their carriers. (So my opinion is admittedly biased in that regard.)
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What are you trying to accomplish with the multi-class? You’re going to fall behind in spell progression, which is a big deal. There’s a huge difference in the power level spells, so you need a compelling reason to do so.
If it’s something you insist on doing, I would pick spells that scale well since your spell slot progression won’t be affected.
You could also get Twin Spell to double the effect of hold person/hold monster (eventually), charm person, etc. As has been suggested, I would say do a 3- or 6-level dip in sorcerer, but keep it mostly bard.
For spells, here are good low-level options. (Note that since you're multiclassing, you won't gain access to higher-level spells as quickly or at all, depending on your split.)
Paladin main who spends most of his D&D time worldbuilding or DMing, not Paladin-ing.
I'll second this. Why Aberrant Mind? A lot of people get hung up on the idea that they have to MC to reflect roleplay decisions, but unless you are angling for a particular mechanic you can RP having weird mental powers all you want without the MC (especially as a bard). There may also be feats that can give you a bit of a mechanical hook into your story progression without altering your class progression (Telepathic, Magic Initiate, Fey Touched).
Bard and sorcerer both give up a lot deferring their levels. Sorc needs all the metamagic it can get since the entire class hinges on those points. Your bard will get a serious boost to inspiration at levels 5 and 6. Third level spells are a huge boost to both classes that upcasting just can't compete with. You don't hear about this combo often because it just doesn't provide any synergy to make up for what you're losing.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
Mainly I want to be Bard Out of Combat, and Sorcerer In Combat is what I thought about, I do realize I would be losing a lot, but I want to try and see what happens kind of Build, and Both Eloquence Bard & AM Sorcerer sounded interesting where I wanted to try different builds
A full Eloquence Bard will be way stronger in combat. They're actually really powerful unless you're only going for damage. Bards have a lot of "save or suck" spells like Blindness/Deafness and Hold Person. Being able to add a big debuff to enemy saves is huge for a spell caster. And when I say big, your enemies will average minus 3.5 to their saving throws at levels 1-4, minus 4.5 at level 5. It keeps going up.
Mixing classes will put you too far behind in spell progression.