I have a paladin and we are currently at level 11. I expect this campaign to go high level.
I have a chance to craft a Holy Avenger.
I currently have a crazy powerful weapon that I assume the DM homebrewed. Stats below. I did a detect evil on it and it didn't ping as evil. However, I don't think the sword's going to allow himself to be removed peacefully. I've spoken with the sword and it doesn't want me to craft the Holy Avenger.
The Holy Avenger is its own type of crazy powerful at higher levels.
What do you guys think? Which ends up mechanically better in the long run?
There is 11 levels of backstory (and this is a narrative campaign) that I'm not going into that might lead to a sub-optimal choice but I wanted to at least have the mechanical information in the back of my head to wrestle with.
Intelligent +3 to Attack & Damage +3d12 Necrotic as the blade tries to rip soul from their body 17-20 Crit - On a Critical strike a body part (d6 to determine) is disabled unless restored by greater restoration. If a creature is killed by Tālab, their eyes flash with a blue energy, burning the inside of their body as the soul is ripped from them. A creature killed in this way cannot be revived. Sets AC to 25 (DM ruled I can still used Defensive Fighting and a Shield for 28 AC) 5 Charges (regains 1 daily at dawn) - each charge grants +5 movement. As long as 1 charge, you may jump as far as your base movement speed without a running start, and you are immune to soulshear effects and effects that would remove parts of your body, such as those of a sword of sharpness or vorpal sword. With 0 charges, maximum speed is halved and any movement or action required a successful DC25 Strength (Athletics) check. Each hit from a shardblade expends 1 charge Each Crit from a shardblade expends 2 charges Each Crit from a regular weapon expends 1 charge
Need some explanation for the charges, is it saying that whenever you get hit with a weapon you lose 1 charge (2 on a crit with a shardblade)? If that's the case, the value of the weapon drops considerably. If you can avoid the penalty for 0 charges relatively easily, the homebrew one is considerably stronger, at least for your personal damage. Though if that penalty is easy to avoid, it's probably better to craft the avenger and trade the shield AC for advantage on saves versus magic.
Need some explanation for the charges, is it saying that whenever you get hit with a weapon you lose 1 charge (2 on a crit with a shardblade)? If that's the case, the value of the weapon drops considerably. If you can avoid the penalty for 0 charges relatively easily, the homebrew one is considerably stronger, at least for your personal damage. Though if that penalty is easy to avoid, it's probably better to craft the avenger and trade the shield AC for advantage on saves versus magic.
A hit from regular weapons does not expend a charge.
How many charges does it have? Cause that's crazy.
There are no charges for the things I can do. There are no charges for the 3d12 necrotic or the AC. The 5 charges are for if I get hit by crits or other special weapons.
Ok, with that clarification I'd suggest "using" both weapons most of the time, (wielding both, but only attacking with Tālab) then switching to avenger + shield whenever you're low on charges or fighting someone with a shardblade. Of course, that presumes that you're able to use both and can easily stop using Tālab, if you can't, I'd just get rid of it and accept the minor loss of damage in exchange for peace of mind.
That homebrew weapon is iffy, I'd go Holy Avenger just because of how overpowered the homebrew is. I wouldn't want to explain to all my frustrated friends why my character was suddenly way more powerful then theirs!
I did a detect evil on it and it didn't ping as evil.
...is it though? It's forcibly ripping souls from bodies and preventing those souls from ever returning. Do you know where those souls go? I get the impression it's not pleasant. Is your Paladin really ok with this? Should he be?
You say this is a narrative campaign. These two swords represent massively different narrative arcs - destruction versus protection. I will admit I often construct characters by looking at mechanics first and then building the RP around those choices, but I don't think I could justify using a sword like that as a Paladin unless I was Evil or Neutral and desperate.
I mean the evil sword is obviously the better mechanical choice. But it's also obviously evil. I feel like that should matter in a narrative campaign.
To be fair, the item in question is built around the Stormlight Archive book series, it does not use standard 5e d&d concepts or lore. Evil, as defined by d&d, does not hold true in every setting. Without context to the character or campaign, it is unwise to force your own sensibilities on the decisions of others in a game that is as subjective as d&d.
Detect Good & Evil in 5E just tells you if an object is consecrated or desecrated. It doesn't actually tell you the alignment of an intelligent item.
Frankly, I'm generally leery of intelligent items unless I really trust the GM, and this one sounds like Blackrazor crossed with a Shardblade and a big wheel of evil cheese.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Depending on what kind of Paladin you are (oath, alignment, et cetera) I'd ditch the homebrew (preferebly in a volcano) and go fo rthe Holy Avenger. Even if I kept it I would most likely only use it when I really, REALLY wanted to curbstomp some really nasty opponent. Ripping someone's soul out is a pretty gruesome thing to do (especially in a world with actual afterlife) and should probably only be done to the worst kind of people. It's also kind of weird that it doesn't want to help you forge the Holy Avenger. :P
That said, the homebrew is extremely powerful, especially at lvl 11. It's better than the Champion's level 15th class ability, does more damage than pretty much everything. Add to that the insane AC bonus and I'm having a hard time to see how the drawback with charges can even be called a drawback. If you want pure power, go with this one.
Detect Good & Evil in 5E just tells you if an object is consecrated or desecrated. It doesn't actually tell you the alignment of an intelligent item.
Frankly, I'm generally leery of intelligent items unless I really trust the GM, and this one sounds like Blackrazor crossed with a Shardblade and a big wheel of evil cheese.
I trust my DM completely and it makes for amazing games. I read the horror stories on Reddit and I am very lucky.
Depending on what kind of Paladin you are (oath, alignment, et cetera) I'd ditch the homebrew (preferebly in a volcano) and go fo rthe Holy Avenger. Even if I kept it I would most likely only use it when I really, REALLY wanted to curbstomp some really nasty opponent. Ripping someone's soul out is a pretty gruesome thing to do (especially in a world with actual afterlife) and should probably only be done to the worst kind of people. It's also kind of weird that it doesn't want to help you forge the Holy Avenger. :P
That said, the homebrew is extremely powerful, especially at lvl 11. It's better than the Champion's level 15th class ability, does more damage than pretty much everything. Add to that the insane AC bonus and I'm having a hard time to see how the drawback with charges can even be called a drawback. If you want pure power, go with this one.
To be fair, the item in question is built around the Stormlight Archive book series, it does not use standard 5e d&d concepts or lore. Evil, as defined by d&d, does not hold true in every setting. Without context to the character or campaign, it is unwise to force your own sensibilities on the decisions of others in a game that is as subjective as d&d.
I mean that's why I didn't mention aspects like the necrotic damage, which is typically but not always associated with evil. "The soul is ripped from them" carries some pretty heavy context on it's own though. It's not "removed," it's not "extracted," it's not "absorbed" - there are any number of verbs that could have been used here to indicate neutrality or avoid negative connotation. Such strong language shouldn't really be ignored.
At any rate, I maintain that regardless it still poses a very different narrative path from a Holy Avenger and I think that should factor in to the decision.
Depending on what kind of Paladin you are (oath, alignment, et cetera) I'd ditch the homebrew (preferebly in a volcano) and go fo rthe Holy Avenger. Even if I kept it I would most likely only use it when I really, REALLY wanted to curbstomp some really nasty opponent. Ripping someone's soul out is a pretty gruesome thing to do (especially in a world with actual afterlife) and should probably only be done to the worst kind of people. It's also kind of weird that it doesn't want to help you forge the Holy Avenger. :P
That said, the homebrew is extremely powerful, especially at lvl 11. It's better than the Champion's level 15th class ability, does more damage than pretty much everything. Add to that the insane AC bonus and I'm having a hard time to see how the drawback with charges can even be called a drawback. If you want pure power, go with this one.
Vengeance Paladin.
If you are of Neutral or Evil alignment, I'd say go for it. Otherwise I would struggle very hard to find justification for using such a terrible weapon against even the most vicious enemy.
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I have a paladin and we are currently at level 11. I expect this campaign to go high level.
I have a chance to craft a Holy Avenger.
I currently have a crazy powerful weapon that I assume the DM homebrewed. Stats below. I did a detect evil on it and it didn't ping as evil. However, I don't think the sword's going to allow himself to be removed peacefully. I've spoken with the sword and it doesn't want me to craft the Holy Avenger.
The Holy Avenger is its own type of crazy powerful at higher levels.
What do you guys think? Which ends up mechanically better in the long run?
There is 11 levels of backstory (and this is a narrative campaign) that I'm not going into that might lead to a sub-optimal choice but I wanted to at least have the mechanical information in the back of my head to wrestle with.
Intelligent
+3 to Attack & Damage
+3d12 Necrotic as the blade tries to rip soul from their body
17-20 Crit - On a Critical strike a body part (d6 to determine) is disabled unless
restored by greater restoration.
If a creature is killed by Tālab, their eyes flash with a blue energy, burning the
inside of their body as the soul is ripped from them. A creature killed in this
way cannot be revived.
Sets AC to 25 (DM ruled I can still used Defensive Fighting and a Shield for 28 AC)
5 Charges (regains 1 daily at dawn) - each charge grants +5 movement.
As long as 1 charge, you may jump as far as your base movement speed
without a running start, and you are immune to soulshear effects and effects
that would remove parts of your body, such as those of a sword of sharpness
or vorpal sword.
With 0 charges, maximum speed is halved and any movement or action required
a successful DC25 Strength (Athletics) check.
Each hit from a shardblade expends 1 charge
Each Crit from a shardblade expends 2 charges
Each Crit from a regular weapon expends 1 charge
Need some explanation for the charges, is it saying that whenever you get hit with a weapon you lose 1 charge (2 on a crit with a shardblade)? If that's the case, the value of the weapon drops considerably. If you can avoid the penalty for 0 charges relatively easily, the homebrew one is considerably stronger, at least for your personal damage. Though if that penalty is easy to avoid, it's probably better to craft the avenger and trade the shield AC for advantage on saves versus magic.
How many charges does it have? Cause that's crazy.
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A hit from regular weapons does not expend a charge.
There are no charges for the things I can do. There are no charges for the 3d12 necrotic or the AC. The 5 charges are for if I get hit by crits or other special weapons.
Ok, with that clarification I'd suggest "using" both weapons most of the time, (wielding both, but only attacking with Tālab) then switching to avenger + shield whenever you're low on charges or fighting someone with a shardblade. Of course, that presumes that you're able to use both and can easily stop using Tālab, if you can't, I'd just get rid of it and accept the minor loss of damage in exchange for peace of mind.
Are you talking about Stormlight Archive-inspired shardblades?
A fool pulls the leaves. A brute chops the trunk. A sage digs the roots.
My Improved Lineage System
Sounds like it.
I exist, and I guess so does this
Also, that custom sword does a heck of a lot more than a holy avenger. Keep the custom sword
I exist, and I guess so does this
That homebrew item is exceedingly powerful, it far outshines a holy avenger.
That homebrew weapon is iffy, I'd go Holy Avenger just because of how overpowered the homebrew is. I wouldn't want to explain to all my frustrated friends why my character was suddenly way more powerful then theirs!
Wizard (Gandalf) of the Tolkien Club
...is it though? It's forcibly ripping souls from bodies and preventing those souls from ever returning. Do you know where those souls go? I get the impression it's not pleasant. Is your Paladin really ok with this? Should he be?
You say this is a narrative campaign. These two swords represent massively different narrative arcs - destruction versus protection. I will admit I often construct characters by looking at mechanics first and then building the RP around those choices, but I don't think I could justify using a sword like that as a Paladin unless I was Evil or Neutral and desperate.
I mean the evil sword is obviously the better mechanical choice. But it's also obviously evil. I feel like that should matter in a narrative campaign.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
To be fair, the item in question is built around the Stormlight Archive book series, it does not use standard 5e d&d concepts or lore. Evil, as defined by d&d, does not hold true in every setting. Without context to the character or campaign, it is unwise to force your own sensibilities on the decisions of others in a game that is as subjective as d&d.
Detect Good & Evil in 5E just tells you if an object is consecrated or desecrated. It doesn't actually tell you the alignment of an intelligent item.
Frankly, I'm generally leery of intelligent items unless I really trust the GM, and this one sounds like Blackrazor crossed with a Shardblade and a big wheel of evil cheese.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
If this campaign is really based around the Stormlight Archive, than this sounds similar to Nightblood. (Who also shows up in Warbreaker.)
A fool pulls the leaves. A brute chops the trunk. A sage digs the roots.
My Improved Lineage System
Depending on what kind of Paladin you are (oath, alignment, et cetera) I'd ditch the homebrew (preferebly in a volcano) and go fo rthe Holy Avenger. Even if I kept it I would most likely only use it when I really, REALLY wanted to curbstomp some really nasty opponent. Ripping someone's soul out is a pretty gruesome thing to do (especially in a world with actual afterlife) and should probably only be done to the worst kind of people. It's also kind of weird that it doesn't want to help you forge the Holy Avenger. :P
That said, the homebrew is extremely powerful, especially at lvl 11. It's better than the Champion's level 15th class ability, does more damage than pretty much everything. Add to that the insane AC bonus and I'm having a hard time to see how the drawback with charges can even be called a drawback. If you want pure power, go with this one.
I trust my DM completely and it makes for amazing games. I read the horror stories on Reddit and I am very lucky.
The DM uses a lot of sources to homebrew stuff. He tends to throw powerful gear at us and equally deadly fights.
Vengeance Paladin.
I mean that's why I didn't mention aspects like the necrotic damage, which is typically but not always associated with evil. "The soul is ripped from them" carries some pretty heavy context on it's own though. It's not "removed," it's not "extracted," it's not "absorbed" - there are any number of verbs that could have been used here to indicate neutrality or avoid negative connotation. Such strong language shouldn't really be ignored.
At any rate, I maintain that regardless it still poses a very different narrative path from a Holy Avenger and I think that should factor in to the decision.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
If you are of Neutral or Evil alignment, I'd say go for it. Otherwise I would struggle very hard to find justification for using such a terrible weapon against even the most vicious enemy.