Im trying to understand a few things regarding a monk character I am preparing and learning.
I think I understand correctly that as a monk I can use many weapons, but I might not be proficient with them.
If I have proficiency (simple weapons, short sword from monk and add hand crossbow, longswords and rapiers for rogue) it doesn’t mean it’s a monk weapon.
the monk weapons are only short sword and simple light and single handed melee weapons only. If I’m also interested in limiting my character to finesse weapons this reduces it even more.
does this mean that as my monk levels to L5 and monk dmg is 1d6, would his wielding daggers also be 1d6 instead of 1d4? what would happen if he threw that dagger? Monk martial arts damage still or only base 1d4 dmg modifiers?
im sure I will have more questions but this is a basic one I need to understand
If it’s on the list of Monk weapons it does Martial Arts Damage. If you really want to cross with Rogue might I suggest Kensei for your Monk Subclass. I think it will mesh well for you.
However, personally I am partial to Variant Ranger as a 2 level dip for my Monks, but that’s just my opinion.
I thought monk weapons also increase with “unarmed” monk dmg.
You are correct:
You can roll a d4 in place of the normal damage of your unarmed strike or monk weapon. This die changes as you gain monk levels, as shown in the Martial Arts column of the Monk table.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Throwing a dagger as a level 5 monk would also be a D6.
As for multiclassing, Monks tend to do rather well with Rogues, especially since you really don't lose much if you don't get the the 20th level of monk (provided you go that far). A level or two of Rogue can be really useful for most monks since it will boost your weapon damage and help you save on Ki points since you can Disengage and Move as a bonus action. Shadow Monks multiclassed with Assassins can be really deadly since you get Advantage on the first attack after you use Shadow Step.
My DM is trying to understand my shadow monk assassin, I’m still only Assassin 3/Shadow Monk 3. I can see that my shadow step gives advantage which is great for sneak attack. But I don’t see where this will help with assassinate, as what causes surprise mid battle.
As mentioned before, the Assassinate is tied to the concept of surprise, and surprise can only happen at the start of combat.
Assassin in general is really only good if your DM specifically works with you to allow you to surprise things often. In a lot of games, surprise rounds are a pretty rare thing.
This is a very strong feature that they attempted to balance by giving it a difficult restriction. How difficult it will be to consistently surprise your enemies is entirely up to the DM, so it's also entirely up to the DM to determine is Assassin is worthwhile or next to useless as a subclass.
Whatever the normal range of situations is in which you might expect to ambush your enemy and get a Surprise Round against them, its hard to imagine that your DM wouldn't entertain the idea that hiding 60' away but suddenly materializing out of someone's shadow right behind them before they even know you're there isn't a strong contender. Way of the Shadow 6 (and 11) are basically a tool in the player's hand to say "I know you're not much for handing out Surprise Rounds, Mr. DM, but frankly I insist."
My DM is trying to understand my shadow monk assassin, I’m still only Assassin 3/Shadow Monk 3. I can see that my shadow step gives advantage which is great for sneak attack. But I don’t see where this will help with assassinate, as what causes surprise mid battle.
You can't assassinate mid battle, you can /only/ do it situationally on the first round of combat. that's the biggest reason why I think assassin is kind of a trap option; it's built around a mechanic that's entirely too rare (imo)
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
My DM is trying to understand my shadow monk assassin, I’m still only Assassin 3/Shadow Monk 3. I can see that my shadow step gives advantage which is great for sneak attack. But I don’t see where this will help with assassinate, as what causes surprise mid battle.
You can't assassinate mid battle, you can /only/ do it situationally on the first round of combat. that's the biggest reason why I think assassin is kind of a trap option; it's built around a mechanic that's entirely too rare (imo)
Well, it's built around assassination, ie, making sure your target is actually surprised when you suddenly stab them from out of nowhere. With the right preparations, it shouldn't be too difficult to arrange a surprised victim. But yeah, it can still only happen the first round of battle.
Ok. Sneak attack says any time I have advantage or enemy has another enemy (my Allie) within 5 ft. So sneak attacks are much easier to attain each round? Given these conditions
Yes, Sneak Attacks are something you can (and should try very hard to) pull off every single round in combat, by either gaining Advantage against your opponent, or by attacking an enemy that one of your allies is within 5 feet of.
The Assassin's Assassinate ability has two effects, both of which only happen in the first round of combat, and which only work on enemies with a lower initiative count in that round than yourself:
You have advantage against enemies that haven't taken their first turn in combat yet (in other words, enemies with a lower initiative than yourself, otherwise they'll have taken their turn)
When you hit an enemy that is Surprised, that hit becomes a critical. (the effects of Surprise only last until the end of the Surprised creature's turn in the first round of combat, so again, this only really works against enemies that roll a lower initiative than yourself).
Assassinate is subject to a lot of qualifiers that make it harder to pull off than it seems, its certainly my least favorite rogue subclass.
Ok. Sneak attack says any time I have advantage or enemy has another enemy (my Allie) within 5 ft. So sneak attacks are much easier to attain each round? Given these conditions
Sneak attacks are pretty easy to get. Assassinate is not so easy.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
My problem with assassin is that they are clearly designed as solo players. Their tool suite implies that they're pulling an Enzo. Dress as a palace guard, get close to the target, strike quickly and decisively, and jump out a window. That's all well and good, but if you've got three other teammates with you, what on earth are they doing during all this?
That said, when you CAN get the drop on your target, insta-crit is pretty sweet. And a shadow monk certainly has enough abilities to surprise their enemies more often than not.
My problem with assassin is that they are clearly designed as solo players. Their tool suite implies that they're pulling an Enzo. Dress as a palace guard, get close to the target, strike quickly and decisively, and jump out a window. That's all well and good, but if you've got three other teammates with you, what on earth are they doing during all this?
Except for the obvious that you don't always have your teammates with you (or you use them to create a distraction hopefully allowing you to get a surprised target), since assassinate is pretty much an first strike-solution, use it as such. Use it to open combats, have your teammates hide out of sight, get the drop on the most important target (say a healer or mage) and then leg it while screaming at the top of your lungs for your team to attack. Hopefully you will be able to get away, hide out of sight for a turn or two and then come around to help your friends.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Hello,
Im trying to understand a few things regarding a monk character I am preparing and learning.
I think I understand correctly that as a monk I can use many weapons, but I might not be proficient with them.
If I have proficiency (simple weapons, short sword from monk and add hand crossbow, longswords and rapiers for rogue) it doesn’t mean it’s a monk weapon.
the monk weapons are only short sword and simple light and single handed melee weapons only. If I’m also interested in limiting my character to finesse weapons this reduces it even more.
does this mean that as my monk levels to L5 and monk dmg is 1d6, would his wielding daggers also be 1d6 instead of 1d4?
what would happen if he threw that dagger? Monk martial arts damage still or only base 1d4 dmg modifiers?
im sure I will have more questions but this is a basic one I need to understand
If it’s on the list of Monk weapons it does Martial Arts Damage. If you really want to cross with Rogue might I suggest Kensei for your Monk Subclass. I think it will mesh well for you.
However, personally I am partial to Variant Ranger as a 2 level dip for my Monks, but that’s just my opinion.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
There are 4 types of weapons for a monk:
I thought monk weapons also increase with “unarmed” monk dmg.
You are correct:
You can roll a d4 in place of the normal damage of your unarmed strike or monk weapon. This die changes as you gain monk levels, as shown in the Martial Arts column of the Monk table.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Throwing a dagger as a level 5 monk would also be a D6.
As for multiclassing, Monks tend to do rather well with Rogues, especially since you really don't lose much if you don't get the the 20th level of monk (provided you go that far). A level or two of Rogue can be really useful for most monks since it will boost your weapon damage and help you save on Ki points since you can Disengage and Move as a bonus action. Shadow Monks multiclassed with Assassins can be really deadly since you get Advantage on the first attack after you use Shadow Step.
just note, you cannot sneak attack on all monk weapons, or with your unarmed strikes. they have to have the finesse property
“I will take responsibility for what I have done. [...] If must fall, I will rise each time a better man.” ― Brandon Sanderson, Oathbringer.
My DM is trying to understand my shadow monk assassin, I’m still only Assassin 3/Shadow Monk 3. I can see that my shadow step gives advantage which is great for sneak attack. But I don’t see where this will help with assassinate, as what causes surprise mid battle.
surprise is granted when you sneak up on someone unexpectedly, it doesn't really come up in combat other than at the beginning
“I will take responsibility for what I have done. [...] If must fall, I will rise each time a better man.” ― Brandon Sanderson, Oathbringer.
Would a stunned, opponent count as an assassinate target?
As mentioned before, the Assassinate is tied to the concept of surprise, and surprise can only happen at the start of combat.
Assassin in general is really only good if your DM specifically works with you to allow you to surprise things often. In a lot of games, surprise rounds are a pretty rare thing.
This is a very strong feature that they attempted to balance by giving it a difficult restriction. How difficult it will be to consistently surprise your enemies is entirely up to the DM, so it's also entirely up to the DM to determine is Assassin is worthwhile or next to useless as a subclass.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
Whatever the normal range of situations is in which you might expect to ambush your enemy and get a Surprise Round against them, its hard to imagine that your DM wouldn't entertain the idea that hiding 60' away but suddenly materializing out of someone's shadow right behind them before they even know you're there isn't a strong contender. Way of the Shadow 6 (and 11) are basically a tool in the player's hand to say "I know you're not much for handing out Surprise Rounds, Mr. DM, but frankly I insist."
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
You can't assassinate mid battle, you can /only/ do it situationally on the first round of combat. that's the biggest reason why I think assassin is kind of a trap option; it's built around a mechanic that's entirely too rare (imo)
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Well, it's built around assassination, ie, making sure your target is actually surprised when you suddenly stab them from out of nowhere. With the right preparations, it shouldn't be too difficult to arrange a surprised victim. But yeah, it can still only happen the first round of battle.
Ok. Sneak attack says any time I have advantage or enemy has another enemy (my Allie) within 5 ft. So sneak attacks are much easier to attain each round? Given these conditions
Yes, Sneak Attacks are something you can (and should try very hard to) pull off every single round in combat, by either gaining Advantage against your opponent, or by attacking an enemy that one of your allies is within 5 feet of.
The Assassin's Assassinate ability has two effects, both of which only happen in the first round of combat, and which only work on enemies with a lower initiative count in that round than yourself:
Assassinate is subject to a lot of qualifiers that make it harder to pull off than it seems, its certainly my least favorite rogue subclass.
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Sneak attacks are pretty easy to get. Assassinate is not so easy.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
My problem with assassin is that they are clearly designed as solo players. Their tool suite implies that they're pulling an Enzo. Dress as a palace guard, get close to the target, strike quickly and decisively, and jump out a window. That's all well and good, but if you've got three other teammates with you, what on earth are they doing during all this?
That said, when you CAN get the drop on your target, insta-crit is pretty sweet. And a shadow monk certainly has enough abilities to surprise their enemies more often than not.
Except for the obvious that you don't always have your teammates with you (or you use them to create a distraction hopefully allowing you to get a surprised target), since assassinate is pretty much an first strike-solution, use it as such. Use it to open combats, have your teammates hide out of sight, get the drop on the most important target (say a healer or mage) and then leg it while screaming at the top of your lungs for your team to attack. Hopefully you will be able to get away, hide out of sight for a turn or two and then come around to help your friends.