This deserves its thread for a more concise discussion. Let us dissect this.
New Lore hints that Clerics are no longer tied to a God, and the power is a gift that connects them to the divine plane, not to a specific God. It is freer to choose where his powers come from and don't need to represent a particular God.
1 Channel Divinity (Divine Spark, Turn Undead), Spellcasting (Prepared spell per spell Slot) (Spells change on long rest (include cantrips))
2 Holy Order (Protector, Scholar, Thaumaturge)
3 Cleric Subclass (Disciple of Life)
4 Feat
5 Smite Undead
6 Subclass Feature (Preserve Life)
7 Blessed Strikes
8 Feat
9 Holy Order (Protector, Scholar, Thaumaturge)
10 Subclass Feature (Blessed Healer)
11 Divine Intervention
12 Feat
13
14 Subclass Feature (Supreme Healer)
15
16 Feat
17
18 Greater Divine Intervention
19 Feat
20 Epic Boon
Class Feature
Channel Divinity: PB,
Divine Spark (Con Save) it's a pseudo–Divine Smite or Burst Healing,
Turn Undead got better wording
Spellcasting: (Prepared spell per spell Slot) 22 Prepared spells vs. LVL + Wis = 25, but now u can change cantrips on long rest (not many choices, though)
Holy Order (Protector, Scholar, Thaumaturge): Versatility of playstyle outside of Subclass. Free to choose heavy armor and martial weapon at any given time, plus others
Subclass features: moved around. Life Domain it's pretty much the same, with better wording.
Smite undead: is dmg added to turn undead effect and easier to follow instead of CR.
Blessed Strike: needed to be a base class feature
Divine Intervention: same with a chance to be reused earlier
Greater Divine Intervention: same as above
Epic Boon: Everyone gets one if dedicated
Cleric Level Prepared Spells (LIFEDOMAINSPELLS) no LVL 1 Prepared spell
5 Beacon of Hope – Removed, Mass Healing Word - Added, Revivify,
7 Aura of Life - Added, Death Ward, Guardian of Faith - Removed
9 Greater Restoration - Added, Mass Cure Wounds, Raise Dead - Removed
New feats that Feel right
Heavy Armor Master (Expert UA) Nice to mitigate damage to focus on others Half Feat
Inspiring Leader (Expert UA) Temp hit points in tandem with Prayer of Healing? (The Prayers is inspiring?) Half Feat
War Caster (Expert UA) well, duh, even more being Half feat
Healer (Character Origin UA) Reroll 1s on healing dice
Spells
The divine spell list is excellent now. It's not dependent on Subclasses to get some more offensive Spells. Guidance and Resistance as reactions feel suitable with the Theme of a Cleric to guide and help when needed; I can cast Find Steed always liked this spell; I can ride while others walk, an emergency, Cleric version Find Familiar?
Divine Spell List Vs. 2014 PHB Cleric Spell List Comparative Added - 23 Removed – 16
I actually feel divine intervention is a little weak. At level 11 you have an 11% chance of it succeeding and have to wait a long rest to try again. I know this is currently how it works, but that seems a little lack luster. You could go another 7 levels and never have it actually work until you get the capstone. Which definitely feels good when you get there, but by then it is basically just an extra 9th level casting once every 2d4 days. Which is still good. if it was 2x level than the highest it would get before level 18 would be 34% and I believe this would feel better.
I know people say casters don't need buffs, so this would probably be too much, I just like having features work, and the chance seems to low to me.
I don't know what is more powerful - Channel Divinity: Divine Spark basically healing 9D8 at lvl 5 or Scholar Holy Order being the second best Face character at +10/+11 Persuasion at lvl 5. Haven't done a true deep dive into the higher level stuff, but at lvl 20 your Cleric can heal 6D8 six times without using a spellslot AND have +16 Persuasion.
So if we grab Expertise in Persuation through multiclassing and have +5 CHA and WIS we can have +22 Persuasion at 20th lvl.
I actually feel divine intervention is a little weak. At level 11 you have an 11% chance of it succeeding and have to wait a long rest to try again. I know this is currently how it works, but that seems a little lack luster. You could go another 7 levels and never have it actually work until you get the capstone. Which definitely feels good when you get there, but by then it is basically just an extra 9th level casting once every 2d4 days. Which is still good. if it was 2x level than the highest it would get before level 18 would be 34% and I believe this would feel better.
I know people say casters don't need buffs, so this would probably be too much, I just like having features work, and the chance seems to low to me.
The thing to bear in mind too is that it's the DM who chooses what the intervention does, not the player. So that's another point that may or may not work against it.
Which also goes against their design philosophy of "mother may I" abilities. This is almost literally "mother may I save my friends" and then the diety heals your friends with mass healing word instead of removing the thing they are fighting so you all can run away, or something that you actually wanted.
I don't know what is more powerful - Channel Divinity: Divine Spark basically healing 9D8 at lvl 5 or Scholar Holy Order being the second best Face character at +10/+11 Persuasion at lvl 5. Haven't done a true deep dive into the higher level stuff, but at lvl 20 your Cleric can heal 6D8 six times without using a spellslot AND have +16 Persuasion.
So if we grab Expertise in Persuation through multiclassing and have +5 CHA and WIS we can have +22 Persuasion at 20th lvl.
The Thaumaturgist only seems like it'd work if they add in the spells from Xanathar's (which, to be fair, if this is supposed to be truly backwards compatible, there's no reason why you couldn't).
The Thaumaturgist only seems like it'd work if they add in the spells from Xanathar's (which, to be fair, if this is supposed to be truly backwards compatible, there's no reason why you couldn't).
Except that I imagine the real draw of it is to get back one use of your Channel Divinity on a short rest, which can be big depending on the Level 6 options for the different subclasses.
Which is why, personally, I think the level 6 option for a new channel divinity needs to be pushed up. As is, it is probably almost always better to pick thaumaturgy as your level 9 option if you have a good subclass channel divinity rather than your level 2 option. Though by then you have 4 uses per long rest so do you even need it still?
Love the new Channel Divinity, both Divine Spark and new Turn Undead are great. Holy Order feature in combination with Blessed Strikes offers great versatility. My only gripe is that the second time it kind of undermines the idea of making a choice. You end up choosing not what you are, but rather what you are not when you get 2 options out of 3. I'd rather have an upgrade to Holy Order choice at level 9. Protector could get Extra Attack or fighting Style: Protection/Defense, scholar could get the more skills and maybe languages, while the thaumaturge could get additional cantrips or ability to restore spell slots on short rest.
Love the new Channel Divinity, both Divine Spark and new Turn Undead are great. Holy Order feature in combination with Blessed Strikes offers great versatility. My only gripe is that the second time it kind of undermines the idea of making a choice. You end up choosing not what you are, but rather what you are not when you get 2 options out of 3. I'd rather have an upgrade to Holy Order choice at level 9. Protector could get Extra Attack or fighting Style: Protection/Defense, scholar could get the more skills and maybe languages, while the thaumaturge could get additional cantrips or ability to restore spell slots on short rest.
I'd definitely agree with you on this and like your suggestions, especially for protector and thaumaturge. It might be nice for the 9th level upgrade of the latter to open up cantrips outside of the divine list. I'd think scholar (which seems to be a bit more niche from the get-go) would need something more creative and powerful than just extra skills/languages.
Divine Spark is like a single target AoE, as weird as that sounds, it auto hits but has a save to half damage. The damage and healing is a little on the weak side for a feature but it scales well given you get more uses and more die with proficiency bonus, if you think an enemy is near death it's guaranteed nature could ensure a certain kill.
Holy Order looks good. Protector and Thaumaturge are both good from a combat sense while Scholar is more RP heavy. While I like RP choices, I think it should have had an additional bonus past that, my thoughts would be Guidance and Resistance giving d6s instead of d4s.
Smite Undead, would like an extra note that the undead creature still needs to make the save if it is immune to the condition of turn undead, just so if some undead creatures turn out to be immune to being turned/dazed, they can still take this damage.
Blessed Strikes, well unless some subclass gets extra attack or somebody multiclasses cleric, the once per round limit isn't going to be experienced. It's effectively a Paladin's Improved Divine Smite but can also apply to cantrips. I don't think anybody is going to say no to an extra damage ~4.5 on hit. So it's good.
Like Kamchatmonk said, I'd rather see an upgrade to Holy Order choice at 9 rather than a 2nd Holy Order. I think Extra Attack is too much for a full caster in full plate, perhaps instead the level 9 options could have been a Channel Divinity option, for Protector that Channel Divinity could be the ability to Extra Attack which also increases Blessed Strikes damage to a number of D8s equal to your PB. Thaumaturge could get a Channel Divinity option to cast any Primal Transmutation or Evocation spell who's level is equal to or less than their PB, the spell can be freely upcast to their PB. Scholar could then get the ability to learn/prepare any spell from a spell scroll which is neither necromancy or evocation, the scholar keeps the spell prepared until until the end of their next long rest without consuming the spell scroll, as a channel divinity option, the level of the spell learnt can not exceed the Scholar's PB.
not much more to say past that, Divine Intervention and Life Cleric really haven't changed all that much.
Overall, I really like the revisions to the cleric. Splitting out the Holy Order and Blessed Strikes style effects from the subclass makes sense and allows a little more flexibility. Having an alternate use for Channel Divinity that's independent from subclass is also nice. The changes to levels 1 and 2 make up for having to wait for level 3 to get your domain.
That said, I dislike that Domains have apparently lost 1st level bonus spells. Life Domain didn't add anything new to the divine list, but it was still good flavor and mechanics to always have bless and cure wounds prepared, and some domains really help reinforce their subclass identity with those first level additions. I'd also really like to see the Divine cantrip selection expanded a little. I know that the main draw of the Thaumaturge is the short rest usage of Channel Divinity, but the additional cantrip still feels a bit vestigial, especially for clerics who pick it up at level 9. Right at level 2 it allows you to pick up an additional good cantrip, but by level 4 the additional option is probably already looking marginal.
I've never liked the design of Divine Intervention as a class feature, and this new version doesn't change my mind.
I'm with kamchatmonk that enhancing the initial holy order at level 9 instead of gaining a new one would be more interesting. Protector and Thaumaturge both have obvious ideas for how they might continue down the same path. As someone who currently plays a Knowledge Domain Cleric, I'd love to see a revised version, but somehow I doubt it will make the cut if they're cutting down on the number of Domains in the PHB, in which case an upgraded Scholar Order might be able to poach one of its other features.
Thank you so much for doing this, The_Travelling_Cleric! It's a great summary. I never would have noticed these spell changes if you hadn't pointed them out. Some of the spells we lost make me a little sad honestly.
What did Mending ever do to hurt anyone? It's one of my favorite underdog cantrips. Divine casters need more cantrips. And this one was thematically appropriate for a lot of Clerics too. It's like healing, but for things. A lot of religious devotees spend time learning to craft and repair things as part of their training. What a shame.
I understand getting rid of some of the spells that felt more elemental. But some of the removed spells are straight out of real myths and religious stories. They were originally created for the game based on these stories. And others were good for the Cleric's theme of buffing the party. I just can't understand why we lost these:
Looking over the list of removed spells, I use many of them. Mending, Bestow Curse, Water Walk, Control Water. :sad face: Oh well. Kind of odd Contagion remained. Mending seems to me like an RP kind of spell, I think if I were going to argue about keeping any of these it would be Mending. Though I wonder what's an evil cleric to do without insect plagues? lol
I'm super curious what the Paladin will look like compared to the Cleric.
I could see some of them being pulled into specific Domain spell lists. But others seem pretty universal. At least leave us Mending, Continual Flame, and Sending.
Thank you so much for doing this, The_Travelling_Cleric! It's a great summary. I never would have noticed these spell changes if you hadn't pointed them out. Some of the spells we lost make me a little sad honestly.
What did Mending ever do to hurt anyone? It's one of my favorite underdog cantrips. Divine casters need more cantrips. And this one was thematically appropriate for a lot of Clerics too. It's like healing, but for things. A lot of religious devotees spend time learning to craft and repair things as part of their training. What a shame.
I understand getting rid of some of the spells that felt more elemental. But some of the removed spells are straight out of real myths and religious stories. They were originally created for the game based on these stories. And others were good for the Cleric's theme of buffing the party. I just can't understand why we lost these:
Continual Flame
Enhance Ability
Bestow Curse
Protection from Energy
Sending
Water Walk
Insect Plague
Fire Storm
Control Weather
Earthquake
I guess they're aiming to establish more of an identity for the class that's distinct from other spellcasting classes, but I do agree that those spells really should have just stayed as they're thematically appropriate.
I think they are trying to separate it from wrath of god/myth type effects and instead say these are a D&D clerics abilities. They were moving this way since 3e giving clerics a more defined theme but they had holdover spells that didn't really fit the theme. I guess they are finally having the core cleric only have spells that stick to the theme and let the subclasses branch out the spells. So earthquake will still probably show up but only for gods of war/destruction or earth.
Edit to add, the added spells are for the most part paladin spells so it makes me wonder if paladins will have any spells that make them feel unique or is in only going to be in class abilities.
Love the new Channel Divinity, both Divine Spark and new Turn Undead are great. Holy Order feature in combination with Blessed Strikes offers great versatility. My only gripe is that the second time it kind of undermines the idea of making a choice. You end up choosing not what you are, but rather what you are not when you get 2 options out of 3. I'd rather have an upgrade to Holy Order choice at level 9. Protector could get Extra Attack or fighting Style: Protection/Defense, scholar could get the more skills and maybe languages, while the thaumaturge could get additional cantrips or ability to restore spell slots on short rest.
Another idea for a Scholar upgrade would be to modify their spellcasting slightly and allow them to cast ritual spells from the Divine spell list even if they do not have them prepared (similar to how a 5e wizard can cast ritual spells from their spellbook even if they are unprepared). At level 9 this would give the scholar much more freedom in what spells they prepare each day while also holding strong to the utility flavor of divining information that scholar evokes.
Alternatively, it could be a fitting upgrade for the Thaumaturge as well.
Love the new Channel Divinity, both Divine Spark and new Turn Undead are great. Holy Order feature in combination with Blessed Strikes offers great versatility. My only gripe is that the second time it kind of undermines the idea of making a choice. You end up choosing not what you are, but rather what you are not when you get 2 options out of 3. I'd rather have an upgrade to Holy Order choice at level 9. Protector could get Extra Attack or fighting Style: Protection/Defense, scholar could get the more skills and maybe languages, while the thaumaturge could get additional cantrips or ability to restore spell slots on short rest.
Another idea for a Scholar upgrade would be to modify their spellcasting slightly and allow them to cast ritual spells from the Divine spell list even if they do not have them prepared (similar to how a 5e wizard can cast ritual spells from their spellbook even if they are unprepared). At level 9 this would give the scholar much more freedom in what spells they prepare each day while also holding strong to the utility flavor of divining information that scholar evokes.
Alternatively, it could be a fitting upgrade for the Thaumaturge as well.
I think ritual casting as you have described would work, it would be a huge boost to their overall utility.
They could give Thaumaturge a feature like Magical Secrets from the Bard or give them a slight boost to the power of their Channel Divinity since their first ability focuses on that.
Protector getting an Extra Attack and qualifying for Fighting Styles might be cool.
Thank you so much for doing this, The_Travelling_Cleric! It's a great summary. I never would have noticed these spell changes if you hadn't pointed them out. Some of the spells we lost make me a little sad honestly.
What did Mending ever do to hurt anyone? It's one of my favorite underdog cantrips. Divine casters need more cantrips. And this one was thematically appropriate for a lot of Clerics too. It's like healing, but for things. A lot of religious devotees spend time learning to craft and repair things as part of their training. What a shame.
I understand getting rid of some of the spells that felt more elemental. But some of the removed spells are straight out of real myths and religious stories. They were originally created for the game based on these stories. And others were good for the Cleric's theme of buffing the party. I just can't understand why we lost these:
Continual Flame
Enhance Ability
Bestow Curse
Protection from Energy
Sending
Water Walk
Insect Plague
Fire Storm
Control Weather
Earthquake
I guess they're intending to make a clear divide between divine and primal spell lists, and these spells clearly fit with primal, controlling elemental forces.
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This deserves its thread for a more concise discussion. Let us dissect this.
New Lore hints that Clerics are no longer tied to a God, and the power is a gift that connects them to the divine plane, not to a specific God. It is freer to choose where his powers come from and don't need to represent a particular God.
Class Feature
Cleric Level Prepared Spells (LIFEDOMAINSPELLS) no LVL 1 Prepared spell
New feats that Feel right
Spells
The divine spell list is excellent now. It's not dependent on Subclasses to get some more offensive Spells. Guidance and Resistance as reactions feel suitable with the Theme of a Cleric to guide and help when needed; I can cast Find Steed always liked this spell; I can ride while others walk, an emergency, Cleric version Find Familiar?
Divine Spell List Vs. 2014 PHB Cleric Spell List Comparative Added - 23 Removed – 16
Cantrip Added - 0 Removed – 1
1st Added - 6 Removed - 0
2nd Added - 3 Removed – 2
3rd Added - 3 Removed - 6
4th Added - 3 Removed - 2
5th Added - 3 Removed - 1
6th Added - 1 Removed – 1
7th Added - 0 Removed - 1
8th Added - 2 Removed - 2
9 Added - 2 Removed - 0
I will add the missing links at a later time.
I actually feel divine intervention is a little weak. At level 11 you have an 11% chance of it succeeding and have to wait a long rest to try again. I know this is currently how it works, but that seems a little lack luster. You could go another 7 levels and never have it actually work until you get the capstone. Which definitely feels good when you get there, but by then it is basically just an extra 9th level casting once every 2d4 days. Which is still good. if it was 2x level than the highest it would get before level 18 would be 34% and I believe this would feel better.
I know people say casters don't need buffs, so this would probably be too much, I just like having features work, and the chance seems to low to me.
I don't know what is more powerful - Channel Divinity: Divine Spark basically healing 9D8 at lvl 5 or Scholar Holy Order being the second best Face character at +10/+11 Persuasion at lvl 5. Haven't done a true deep dive into the higher level stuff, but at lvl 20 your Cleric can heal 6D8 six times without using a spellslot AND have +16 Persuasion.
So if we grab Expertise in Persuation through multiclassing and have +5 CHA and WIS we can have +22 Persuasion at 20th lvl.
Seems balanced!
#OpenDnD
Which also goes against their design philosophy of "mother may I" abilities. This is almost literally "mother may I save my friends" and then the diety heals your friends with mass healing word instead of removing the thing they are fighting so you all can run away, or something that you actually wanted.
A cleric gotta Preach!!
The wording of Blessed Strikes makes it work with ranged weapons and spells you get from multiclassing, your species, feats and magic items.
REALLY strong.
#OpenDnD
The Thaumaturgist only seems like it'd work if they add in the spells from Xanathar's (which, to be fair, if this is supposed to be truly backwards compatible, there's no reason why you couldn't).
Which is why, personally, I think the level 6 option for a new channel divinity needs to be pushed up. As is, it is probably almost always better to pick thaumaturgy as your level 9 option if you have a good subclass channel divinity rather than your level 2 option. Though by then you have 4 uses per long rest so do you even need it still?
Love the new Channel Divinity, both Divine Spark and new Turn Undead are great. Holy Order feature in combination with Blessed Strikes offers great versatility. My only gripe is that the second time it kind of undermines the idea of making a choice. You end up choosing not what you are, but rather what you are not when you get 2 options out of 3. I'd rather have an upgrade to Holy Order choice at level 9. Protector could get Extra Attack or fighting Style: Protection/Defense, scholar could get the more skills and maybe languages, while the thaumaturge could get additional cantrips or ability to restore spell slots on short rest.
I'd definitely agree with you on this and like your suggestions, especially for protector and thaumaturge. It might be nice for the 9th level upgrade of the latter to open up cantrips outside of the divine list. I'd think scholar (which seems to be a bit more niche from the get-go) would need something more creative and powerful than just extra skills/languages.
Divine Spark is like a single target AoE, as weird as that sounds, it auto hits but has a save to half damage. The damage and healing is a little on the weak side for a feature but it scales well given you get more uses and more die with proficiency bonus, if you think an enemy is near death it's guaranteed nature could ensure a certain kill.
Holy Order looks good. Protector and Thaumaturge are both good from a combat sense while Scholar is more RP heavy. While I like RP choices, I think it should have had an additional bonus past that, my thoughts would be Guidance and Resistance giving d6s instead of d4s.
Smite Undead, would like an extra note that the undead creature still needs to make the save if it is immune to the condition of turn undead, just so if some undead creatures turn out to be immune to being turned/dazed, they can still take this damage.
Blessed Strikes, well unless some subclass gets extra attack or somebody multiclasses cleric, the once per round limit isn't going to be experienced. It's effectively a Paladin's Improved Divine Smite but can also apply to cantrips. I don't think anybody is going to say no to an extra damage ~4.5 on hit. So it's good.
Like Kamchatmonk said, I'd rather see an upgrade to Holy Order choice at 9 rather than a 2nd Holy Order. I think Extra Attack is too much for a full caster in full plate, perhaps instead the level 9 options could have been a Channel Divinity option, for Protector that Channel Divinity could be the ability to Extra Attack which also increases Blessed Strikes damage to a number of D8s equal to your PB. Thaumaturge could get a Channel Divinity option to cast any Primal Transmutation or Evocation spell who's level is equal to or less than their PB, the spell can be freely upcast to their PB. Scholar could then get the ability to learn/prepare any spell from a spell scroll which is neither necromancy or evocation, the scholar keeps the spell prepared until until the end of their next long rest without consuming the spell scroll, as a channel divinity option, the level of the spell learnt can not exceed the Scholar's PB.
not much more to say past that, Divine Intervention and Life Cleric really haven't changed all that much.
Overall, I really like the revisions to the cleric. Splitting out the Holy Order and Blessed Strikes style effects from the subclass makes sense and allows a little more flexibility. Having an alternate use for Channel Divinity that's independent from subclass is also nice. The changes to levels 1 and 2 make up for having to wait for level 3 to get your domain.
That said, I dislike that Domains have apparently lost 1st level bonus spells. Life Domain didn't add anything new to the divine list, but it was still good flavor and mechanics to always have bless and cure wounds prepared, and some domains really help reinforce their subclass identity with those first level additions. I'd also really like to see the Divine cantrip selection expanded a little. I know that the main draw of the Thaumaturge is the short rest usage of Channel Divinity, but the additional cantrip still feels a bit vestigial, especially for clerics who pick it up at level 9. Right at level 2 it allows you to pick up an additional good cantrip, but by level 4 the additional option is probably already looking marginal.
I've never liked the design of Divine Intervention as a class feature, and this new version doesn't change my mind.
I'm with kamchatmonk that enhancing the initial holy order at level 9 instead of gaining a new one would be more interesting. Protector and Thaumaturge both have obvious ideas for how they might continue down the same path. As someone who currently plays a Knowledge Domain Cleric, I'd love to see a revised version, but somehow I doubt it will make the cut if they're cutting down on the number of Domains in the PHB, in which case an upgraded Scholar Order might be able to poach one of its other features.
Thank you so much for doing this, The_Travelling_Cleric! It's a great summary. I never would have noticed these spell changes if you hadn't pointed them out. Some of the spells we lost make me a little sad honestly.
What did Mending ever do to hurt anyone? It's one of my favorite underdog cantrips. Divine casters need more cantrips. And this one was thematically appropriate for a lot of Clerics too. It's like healing, but for things. A lot of religious devotees spend time learning to craft and repair things as part of their training. What a shame.
I understand getting rid of some of the spells that felt more elemental. But some of the removed spells are straight out of real myths and religious stories. They were originally created for the game based on these stories. And others were good for the Cleric's theme of buffing the party. I just can't understand why we lost these:
Continual Flame
Enhance Ability
Bestow Curse
Protection from Energy
Sending
Water Walk
Insect Plague
Fire Storm
Control Weather
Earthquake
Looking over the list of removed spells, I use many of them. Mending, Bestow Curse, Water Walk, Control Water. :sad face: Oh well. Kind of odd Contagion remained. Mending seems to me like an RP kind of spell, I think if I were going to argue about keeping any of these it would be Mending. Though I wonder what's an evil cleric to do without insect plagues? lol
I'm super curious what the Paladin will look like compared to the Cleric.
I could see some of them being pulled into specific Domain spell lists. But others seem pretty universal. At least leave us Mending, Continual Flame, and Sending.
I think they are trying to separate it from wrath of god/myth type effects and instead say these are a D&D clerics abilities. They were moving this way since 3e giving clerics a more defined theme but they had holdover spells that didn't really fit the theme. I guess they are finally having the core cleric only have spells that stick to the theme and let the subclasses branch out the spells. So earthquake will still probably show up but only for gods of war/destruction or earth.
Edit to add, the added spells are for the most part paladin spells so it makes me wonder if paladins will have any spells that make them feel unique or is in only going to be in class abilities.
The Cleric feels like a Crusader somehow, the Magical side of Divine, while I guess that Paladin will be the Martial side of it.
Another idea for a Scholar upgrade would be to modify their spellcasting slightly and allow them to cast ritual spells from the Divine spell list even if they do not have them prepared (similar to how a 5e wizard can cast ritual spells from their spellbook even if they are unprepared). At level 9 this would give the scholar much more freedom in what spells they prepare each day while also holding strong to the utility flavor of divining information that scholar evokes.
Alternatively, it could be a fitting upgrade for the Thaumaturge as well.
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I think ritual casting as you have described would work, it would be a huge boost to their overall utility.
They could give Thaumaturge a feature like Magical Secrets from the Bard or give them a slight boost to the power of their Channel Divinity since their first ability focuses on that.
Protector getting an Extra Attack and qualifying for Fighting Styles might be cool.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
I guess they're intending to make a clear divide between divine and primal spell lists, and these spells clearly fit with primal, controlling elemental forces.