I'm pro PHB ranger, pro PHB beast master, and like that Tasha’s will bring a lot of playability and happiness to many people.
Several regulars on these ranger threads were kind enough to share their thoughts with me regarding the ranger class. Thank you, by the way, to those of you whom I’m speaking about! And that has led me to starting the conversation of...
I’m sure some, many, most, perhaps all of us, can agree that when they are in their “element”, meaning ample access to their favored terrain(s), ample access and/or interaction with their favored enemy(ies), and playing in a game and with a DM that makes use of the wilderness exploration rules, the overland travel rules, the knowledge checks rules, the difficult terrain rules, and language barriers (meaning not everything just speaks common), rangers are a great class, effective, and fun to play. But what about when one, some, or all of the situations, rules, or styles of play listed above aren’t there? What has your experience been, as a player playing a ranger or as a DM with a ranger in the party?
The only place that I've truely found a Ranger to be out of it's Element is in a City. Rangers are one of the only classes with No natural ability for social skills. They have to pick them up pretty much entirely through backgrounds or feats or extra training options, or being a Fey Wanderer.
Cities have a wildness and a flow and a form of nature all to themselves but there is literally nothing for this kind of nature represented in any real form of the Ranger. Tracking somebody through such a place is different. And not all tracking of a person is actually done through social skills yet Rangers, who are in many ways the ultimate trackers, have no special representation in this regard.
And while some Have made the choice that any urban environment is just the natural environment it surrounds itself in. There are so many differences inside those walls from outside those walls is actually a Jarring switch if you really pay attention to it. it's a switch that we as modern humans tend to be innured to because we either spend all our time in the urban environments or we live in areas where even when you get out into nature and rural areas there is just so many city oriented features and things going on there is no real change anymore. Some cities and such actually almost defy the normal terrain that they are built within. (For Example, Phoenix Arizona. Desert within the city is more like a very hot plains area and has completely different hazards for the most part from Desert outside the city... Once you can get far enough out to actually be in Desert.)
Otherwise at least when I've played. I've rarely found the ranger entirely out of his element. With his skill set and proficiencies and abilities he does very well outside of the urban and social areas. He may excel even better when he's outside of them and in area's that he prefers to focus on. But usually for me. There is some kind of overlap even with just Favored Enemy and Natural explorer. If I'm in my preferred area. I can do a lot of the things that Favored Enemy allows me to do anyway through Natural Explorer. My Tracking is enhanced. I have increased knowledge about the normal things we run across in the area. I have various passive benefits to bring aid to myself or to the party. When I am out of my Area. Favored Enemies can be a lot of places and aren't necessarily native to your chosen Terrain. Though there is sometimes advice (even fairly official advice) for beginners they be linked. But your Favored Enemy could just as easily be something from outside of your favorite Terrain that is encroaching Aggressively on your favored Terrain and your protecting your favored habitat. So you might be out of your Favored Terrain but you can still know more about a variety of different kinds of monsters still simply because they are roughly related in some capacity and how to deal with them. you still have an enhanced tracking but in a different way. And your Still likely the one most skilled at handling the environment and it's hazards even if you aren't entirely familiar with them because that's what your skill set leans towards anyway quite naturally where most other classes have to seek out that kind of general familiarity so you still have all the benefits of things like your nature and Survival skills even if they aren't of the massively enhanced variety to fall back on.
In my experience, smart (albeit somewhat boring) selection of Favored Enemies and Favored Terrains limits the potential of a Ranger finding themselves wholly out of their element. Ever since I've started taking Favored Enemies/Terrains that are likely to come up more often, I've found that both those features more than justify their presence on my characters. For Favored Enemies, I tend to pick humans and elves at level 1. This pretty much has me covered in most cityscapes, since 99% of cities in DnD have a larger than average population of plot-relevant humans/elves. As for Favored Terrains, I've narrowed it down to Forests, Grasslands, and Mountains being by far the most common to run into. This is assuming the DM doesn't include 'urban' as an option or tie urban settlements into whatever terrain surrounds them. It's gotten to the point where my Rangers are getting the benefits of Favored Enemy and/or Natural Explorer so often that it baffles the mind how most people assume these features do nothing most of the time.
At any rate, if for whatever reason I'm out of my Favored Enemy/Terrain, I've never found myself dragging the party down. Rangers are still a half-caster with fighting styles and extra attack, so I've always managed to pull my own weight in combat. Admittedly in those situations, I do feel like I could be doing more if I were a Fighter with the Outlander feat...but then I take a look at my subclass benefits and the feeling passes. Also, as stated, I find myself in my element far more than not, so even if I'm out of my element every now and again, I know I'll be back in it soon enough that it doesn't bother me too much. In the meantime, I have the Primal Companion to assist me. Or the Horizon Walker teleport shenanigans. Or the Monster Slayer's ability to discern information about enemy creatures. Or the Hunter's crowd control. Or the Gloom Stalker's invisibility. Or the Fey Wanderer's sheer charisma.
Viable alternatives to Favored Enemy and Favored Terrain have removed this metagame stress element from my Rangers, and I'm happier for it. I'd agree with Fateless that my Ranger's element is anywhere except in a city. Although I think a Fey Wanderer could have a lot of fun interacting with people in a city.
Viable alternatives to Favored Enemy and Favored Terrain have removed this metagame stress element from my Rangers, and I'm happier for it. I'd agree with Fateless that my Ranger's element is anywhere except in a city. Although I think a Fey Wanderer could have a lot of fun interacting with people in a city.
I haven't gotten to do the Fey Wanderer yet to really get intimately familiar with it's intricacies. And it may be a while. That's why I marked it as a possible exception myself.
PHB Beast masters should always start with beasts But then not take any beast spells except possibly beast sense. I also say Pay close attention to skill/ability/spell overlaps. You don't need the outlander back ground feature if your survival is high. Even non-beast masters might find starting beasts the most useful. Mounts, poison harvesting, checking "meat supplies" are all really useful.
Speaking of poison harvesting. Always collect resources that can be used outside of the terrain while present. Harvesting herbs and plants for healing potions or other ointments is a really good idea for a ranger. Most players forget about tools but rangers should live for downtime.
I think the most useful terrain is forests or underdark depending on the campaign. Remember to look for shops that sell herbs and stuff from those terrains.
Most of all remember if your out of your element your still a capable character just pay attention and watch for opportunities to use the right skill at the right time.
Viable alternatives to Favored Enemy and Favored Terrain have removed this metagame stress element from my Rangers, and I'm happier for it. I'd agree with Fateless that my Ranger's element is anywhere except in a city. Although I think a Fey Wanderer could have a lot of fun interacting with people in a city.
I think 3.5e had some interesting urban ranger options, and the climbing speed granted by the one of the new ranger options almost works for the idea of an urban ranger. In my pre-TCoE games, I added urban areas as a favored terrain option.
If you want an "Urban Ranger" feel, take the Urchin background, which gives you some of the feel of "Favoured Terrain: City" (especially viable for a Dragon Heist campaign). Backgrounds in general can shore up the non-wildnerness aspects of a Ranger.
My main problem with Ranger is actually the holes in their wilderness exploration. I'm playing an Favoured Terrain: Arctic Ranger in an Icewind Dale campaign and I'm forever on disadvantage to ability checks from cold exhaustion thanks to the Ranger's crappy CON save. Even if you're in your favoured terrain, it's no guarantee of "feeling" like a badass-explorer Ranger.
I play one (lv 15 after 3 years) and took humans and elves as favoured enemies, and due to background and rogue multiclassing have proficiency in persuasion and deception. I have no problem in a city, but I hardly ever get to use my favoured terrain (woods) and favoured enemy is just really really lackluster. For a long time we played with some of the alternate ranger abilities but found that some were just too good (advantage on initiative + advantage on hit on surprise). After Tasha, I got rid of favoured terrain and got expertise which is great! It is easier to implement for both player and GM, while it feels balanced and makes the ranger more roguey. The Tasha alternative to favoured enemies is too weak though, so I still have my favoured enemies although they almost never get used.
Are you using the Revised version of favored enemy with bonuses to damage or the original with just bonuses to tracking and intelligence skills related to your favored enemy.
I briefly played using the Revised rules and found the initiative/advantage on hit on surprise overpowered as well. I did find the bonus to damage on favored enemy a very needed addition over the original Ranger.
My biggest critique of Tasha's fixes is that they mixed up the powers. Very clearly the design is that all options are taken because the bonus languages from favored enemy are now found in Deft Explorer. The way it is now you can keep the old favored enemy and take deft explorer to gain 3 languages at first level. Similarly with that same selection if you expertise Survival with Deft Explorer you now have advantage on tracking your favored enemy on a skill with expertise. I don't think that splitting the choices was the intent, but it does make for an interesting bit of min/maxing on the exploration side if you want to.
If you want an "Urban Ranger" feel, take the Urchin background, which gives you some of the feel of "Favoured Terrain: City" (especially viable for a Dragon Heist campaign). Backgrounds in general can shore up the non-wildnerness aspects of a Ranger.
My main problem with Ranger is actually the holes in their wilderness exploration. I'm playing an Favoured Terrain: Arctic Ranger in an Icewind Dale campaign and I'm forever on disadvantage to ability checks from cold exhaustion thanks to the Ranger's crappy CON save. Even if you're in your favoured terrain, it's no guarantee of "feeling" like a badass-explorer Ranger.
You're supposed to start with a set of Cold Weather Clothing. So long as it stays dry, you automatically succeed on checks against Extreme Cold.
So, I have to ask, did your DM screw you out of this or did something happen?
If you want an "Urban Ranger" feel, take the Urchin background, which gives you some of the feel of "Favoured Terrain: City" (especially viable for a Dragon Heist campaign). Backgrounds in general can shore up the non-wildnerness aspects of a Ranger.
My main problem with Ranger is actually the holes in their wilderness exploration. I'm playing an Favoured Terrain: Arctic Ranger in an Icewind Dale campaign and I'm forever on disadvantage to ability checks from cold exhaustion thanks to the Ranger's crappy CON save. Even if you're in your favoured terrain, it's no guarantee of "feeling" like a badass-explorer Ranger.
You're supposed to start with a set of Cold Weather Clothing. So long as it stays dry, you automatically succeed on checks against Extreme Cold.
So, I have to ask, did your DM screw you out of this or did something happen?
That's the real problem. DM's or players get tunnel vison and forget to think outside the box but if you do in a reasonable manner, most of the ranger issues suddenly disappear. The problem is a growing number of people who disagree on "reasonable" and "related". But the ranger is a full adventurer and should never be out of their element even if their not in their favored terrain.
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Hello everyone!
I'm pro PHB ranger, pro PHB beast master, and like that Tasha’s will bring a lot of playability and happiness to many people.
Several regulars on these ranger threads were kind enough to share their thoughts with me regarding the ranger class. Thank you, by the way, to those of you whom I’m speaking about! And that has led me to starting the conversation of...
I’m sure some, many, most, perhaps all of us, can agree that when they are in their “element”, meaning ample access to their favored terrain(s), ample access and/or interaction with their favored enemy(ies), and playing in a game and with a DM that makes use of the wilderness exploration rules, the overland travel rules, the knowledge checks rules, the difficult terrain rules, and language barriers (meaning not everything just speaks common), rangers are a great class, effective, and fun to play. But what about when one, some, or all of the situations, rules, or styles of play listed above aren’t there? What has your experience been, as a player playing a ranger or as a DM with a ranger in the party?
The only place that I've truely found a Ranger to be out of it's Element is in a City. Rangers are one of the only classes with No natural ability for social skills. They have to pick them up pretty much entirely through backgrounds or feats or extra training options, or being a Fey Wanderer.
Cities have a wildness and a flow and a form of nature all to themselves but there is literally nothing for this kind of nature represented in any real form of the Ranger. Tracking somebody through such a place is different. And not all tracking of a person is actually done through social skills yet Rangers, who are in many ways the ultimate trackers, have no special representation in this regard.
And while some Have made the choice that any urban environment is just the natural environment it surrounds itself in. There are so many differences inside those walls from outside those walls is actually a Jarring switch if you really pay attention to it. it's a switch that we as modern humans tend to be innured to because we either spend all our time in the urban environments or we live in areas where even when you get out into nature and rural areas there is just so many city oriented features and things going on there is no real change anymore. Some cities and such actually almost defy the normal terrain that they are built within. (For Example, Phoenix Arizona. Desert within the city is more like a very hot plains area and has completely different hazards for the most part from Desert outside the city... Once you can get far enough out to actually be in Desert.)
Otherwise at least when I've played. I've rarely found the ranger entirely out of his element. With his skill set and proficiencies and abilities he does very well outside of the urban and social areas. He may excel even better when he's outside of them and in area's that he prefers to focus on. But usually for me. There is some kind of overlap even with just Favored Enemy and Natural explorer. If I'm in my preferred area. I can do a lot of the things that Favored Enemy allows me to do anyway through Natural Explorer. My Tracking is enhanced. I have increased knowledge about the normal things we run across in the area. I have various passive benefits to bring aid to myself or to the party. When I am out of my Area. Favored Enemies can be a lot of places and aren't necessarily native to your chosen Terrain. Though there is sometimes advice (even fairly official advice) for beginners they be linked. But your Favored Enemy could just as easily be something from outside of your favorite Terrain that is encroaching Aggressively on your favored Terrain and your protecting your favored habitat. So you might be out of your Favored Terrain but you can still know more about a variety of different kinds of monsters still simply because they are roughly related in some capacity and how to deal with them. you still have an enhanced tracking but in a different way. And your Still likely the one most skilled at handling the environment and it's hazards even if you aren't entirely familiar with them because that's what your skill set leans towards anyway quite naturally where most other classes have to seek out that kind of general familiarity so you still have all the benefits of things like your nature and Survival skills even if they aren't of the massively enhanced variety to fall back on.
In my experience, smart (albeit somewhat boring) selection of Favored Enemies and Favored Terrains limits the potential of a Ranger finding themselves wholly out of their element. Ever since I've started taking Favored Enemies/Terrains that are likely to come up more often, I've found that both those features more than justify their presence on my characters. For Favored Enemies, I tend to pick humans and elves at level 1. This pretty much has me covered in most cityscapes, since 99% of cities in DnD have a larger than average population of plot-relevant humans/elves. As for Favored Terrains, I've narrowed it down to Forests, Grasslands, and Mountains being by far the most common to run into. This is assuming the DM doesn't include 'urban' as an option or tie urban settlements into whatever terrain surrounds them. It's gotten to the point where my Rangers are getting the benefits of Favored Enemy and/or Natural Explorer so often that it baffles the mind how most people assume these features do nothing most of the time.
At any rate, if for whatever reason I'm out of my Favored Enemy/Terrain, I've never found myself dragging the party down. Rangers are still a half-caster with fighting styles and extra attack, so I've always managed to pull my own weight in combat. Admittedly in those situations, I do feel like I could be doing more if I were a Fighter with the Outlander feat...but then I take a look at my subclass benefits and the feeling passes. Also, as stated, I find myself in my element far more than not, so even if I'm out of my element every now and again, I know I'll be back in it soon enough that it doesn't bother me too much. In the meantime, I have the Primal Companion to assist me. Or the Horizon Walker teleport shenanigans. Or the Monster Slayer's ability to discern information about enemy creatures. Or the Hunter's crowd control. Or the Gloom Stalker's invisibility. Or the Fey Wanderer's sheer charisma.
Viable alternatives to Favored Enemy and Favored Terrain have removed this metagame stress element from my Rangers, and I'm happier for it. I'd agree with Fateless that my Ranger's element is anywhere except in a city. Although I think a Fey Wanderer could have a lot of fun interacting with people in a city.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
I haven't gotten to do the Fey Wanderer yet to really get intimately familiar with it's intricacies. And it may be a while. That's why I marked it as a possible exception myself.
PHB Beast masters should always start with beasts But then not take any beast spells except possibly beast sense. I also say Pay close attention to skill/ability/spell overlaps. You don't need the outlander back ground feature if your survival is high. Even non-beast masters might find starting beasts the most useful. Mounts, poison harvesting, checking "meat supplies" are all really useful.
Speaking of poison harvesting. Always collect resources that can be used outside of the terrain while present. Harvesting herbs and plants for healing potions or other ointments is a really good idea for a ranger. Most players forget about tools but rangers should live for downtime.
I think the most useful terrain is forests or underdark depending on the campaign. Remember to look for shops that sell herbs and stuff from those terrains.
Most of all remember if your out of your element your still a capable character just pay attention and watch for opportunities to use the right skill at the right time.
I think 3.5e had some interesting urban ranger options, and the climbing speed granted by the one of the new ranger options almost works for the idea of an urban ranger. In my pre-TCoE games, I added urban areas as a favored terrain option.
I have a weird sense of humor.
I also make maps.(That's a link)
If you want an "Urban Ranger" feel, take the Urchin background, which gives you some of the feel of "Favoured Terrain: City" (especially viable for a Dragon Heist campaign). Backgrounds in general can shore up the non-wildnerness aspects of a Ranger.
My main problem with Ranger is actually the holes in their wilderness exploration. I'm playing an Favoured Terrain: Arctic Ranger in an Icewind Dale campaign and I'm forever on disadvantage to ability checks from cold exhaustion thanks to the Ranger's crappy CON save. Even if you're in your favoured terrain, it's no guarantee of "feeling" like a badass-explorer Ranger.
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile.
I play one (lv 15 after 3 years) and took humans and elves as favoured enemies, and due to background and rogue multiclassing have proficiency in persuasion and deception. I have no problem in a city, but I hardly ever get to use my favoured terrain (woods) and favoured enemy is just really really lackluster. For a long time we played with some of the alternate ranger abilities but found that some were just too good (advantage on initiative + advantage on hit on surprise). After Tasha, I got rid of favoured terrain and got expertise which is great! It is easier to implement for both player and GM, while it feels balanced and makes the ranger more roguey. The Tasha alternative to favoured enemies is too weak though, so I still have my favoured enemies although they almost never get used.
Are you using the Revised version of favored enemy with bonuses to damage or the original with just bonuses to tracking and intelligence skills related to your favored enemy.
I briefly played using the Revised rules and found the initiative/advantage on hit on surprise overpowered as well. I did find the bonus to damage on favored enemy a very needed addition over the original Ranger.
My biggest critique of Tasha's fixes is that they mixed up the powers. Very clearly the design is that all options are taken because the bonus languages from favored enemy are now found in Deft Explorer. The way it is now you can keep the old favored enemy and take deft explorer to gain 3 languages at first level. Similarly with that same selection if you expertise Survival with Deft Explorer you now have advantage on tracking your favored enemy on a skill with expertise. I don't think that splitting the choices was the intent, but it does make for an interesting bit of min/maxing on the exploration side if you want to.
You're supposed to start with a set of Cold Weather Clothing. So long as it stays dry, you automatically succeed on checks against Extreme Cold.
So, I have to ask, did your DM screw you out of this or did something happen?
thats ther
That's the real problem. DM's or players get tunnel vison and forget to think outside the box but if you do in a reasonable manner, most of the ranger issues suddenly disappear. The problem is a growing number of people who disagree on "reasonable" and "related". But the ranger is a full adventurer and should never be out of their element even if their not in their favored terrain.