True enough, Ireland, Scotland, and England used the term Fairy as a catchall for supernatural beings, it's very noticeable with Ireland due to the fact their standing lore withstood outside attempts to purge it the most.
They're based off of the trolls from Poul Anderson's Three Hearts and Three Lions.
Personally, I prefer my Trolls more like D. & L. Eddings’ from The Tamuli. (Follow up series to The Elenium.) I lifted drew heavy creative inspiration from their pantheon and everything.
So in my ”semiho Mystara,” after a Troll worship Ghworg (god of Kill), but before they worship Ghnomb (god of eat), they always share some of their meat with Khwaj (god of Fire) because they believe it pleases him. Their other two gods are Schlee and Zoka, (their gods of Ice and Mating respectively.
They are also highly moral and absolutely disgusted by certain behaviors they observe in Humanoid races, notably kidnapping, ****, and murder (defined as “unwarranted killing.”) Killing is totally cool if they had it coming... or there’s a war on… or you’re worshiping Ghworg… or if you’re hungry…. But they would never eat a Hunan! (That’s forbidden.) Eating other humanoids is fine though, and dog is a particular delicacy. They have a “genderless” society in which all are equal and the only recognized distinction between males and females is purely reproductive, and therefor part of their worship to Zoka.
They are also fairly cosmopolitan. Trolls of both sexes wear makeup. Trolls make clothing and manufacture tools and weapons (though not of metal as they lack that technology.) And Troll-made jewelry is actually rather sought after in some circles.
In older editions of D&D, the Norse trolls that were intelligent and had magical powers were known as Fensir. They've generally been native to the Outer Plane of Ysgard and are therefore quite rare in the prime.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I want sea/oceanic classes myself, sorcerer and cleric, druid too.
Tempest is NOT oceanic themed, its storm themed and mostly air based with lightning powers tossed in. Saying Tempest/Storm is ocean themed is like saying we have earth themed classes because fireball exists.
I want sea/oceanic classes myself, sorcerer and cleric, druid too.
Tempest is NOT oceanic themed, its storm themed and mostly air based with lightning powers tossed in. Saying Tempest/Storm is ocean themed is like saying we have earth themed classes because fireball exists.
It turns out that very few people play nautical campaigns because of a number of reasons. Notably, there’s nothing to do on the ship until something happens to the ship. Otherwise its either several sessions of the DM talking about nothing happening, or else the journey is over in the 10 minutes of travel montage the DM does and then they’re back on land again where there are things to investigate, clues to find. NPCa to socialize with, and an increased likelihood of reasonable combat opportunities. (Ship to ship combat is not something 5e does exactly well.
If you enable “Critical Roll content” you will find two newly added subclasses, one of with is a specifically “seafaring” Paladin “Oath of the Open Sea” you might like. And before they were forced to take it down DDB also used to host a 3rd party product titled Runtara, and that had an”Path of the Deep” Barbarian subclass. You can no longer access that content on DDB, but it is free to download elsewhere. So you won’t be able to use it on DDB unless you either recreate it as private Homebrew or find someone who can slip you a copy of a character on the DL. But it was cool and absolutely nautical in nature.
As to your desire for nautically themed Cleric Druid, and Sorcerer subclasses: whenever I discover that something I really want to play doesn’t exist yet, I Homebrew. You could too..
Really ANY cleric domain can be ocean- themed. Life Domain? The oceans are the primordial cradles from which life first emerged, and are churning with biodiversity and life. Grave domain? Pick your favorite seafaring ghost story about a ghost ship or skeleton pirates or drowned city that your cleric has an affinity for-- the ocean is the largest mass-grave in the world, always swallowing up the un-careful or just unlucky. Knowledge domain? Who knows how many secrets lie at the bottom of the ocean, and what was meant to see the light of day again? Maybe your God has given you insight into some of these secrets for your faith and service, but the knowledge is changed from its long millenia beneath the waves and is now Of the Sea, and so is your power. War Domain? How many battles have been fought on the sea? Too many to count.
The reason there's not specifically a sea cleric is because actually making one would limit your choices, not broaden them. Saying "this is a Sea Cleric" is, in subtext, saying "all of *these* are not Sea Clerics." Instead, if you want an ocean- themed cleric, the subclass is not what's gonna get you there. Look at spell choice, backgrounds, feats, ideals, bonds, flaws, etc. Talk to your DM about re-skinning or re-flavoring spells and abilities if you need to. That's how you customize your cleric to be an X Domain of the Sea.
The cleric isn't like the Warlock who gets their power based off a specific type of patron, or a sorcerer who gets power from a unique bloodline. Cleric Domains are based off concepts, ideas, the same stuff that gods are often based off of. It depends more on what the culture of worship associates with the sea, more than any intrinsic oceanic properties.
I can see that point. But still, there are still Cleric archetypes to fall best within an elemental theme (Fire and Air/Wind) but there are yet to be Clerics that fall into the Water or Earth elemental archetype without feeling too awkward. Earth-Based spells in D&D also seem to be a very small pool. An Earth-Based Cleric archetype could be interesting to see, and could bring a dynamic to the Cleric class that hasn't really been seen before.
Looking at real-world culture and history, Clerics make just as much sense as Druids when it comes to Geomancy, sometimes moreso. I would say the Grave Cleric is a decent pick for emulating a Chinese Geomancer if it were not for the fact that Clerics have only one earth-based spell (Earthquake) on their official spell list and that doesn't quite fit for that sort of archetype.
I can see that point. But still, there are still Cleric archetypes to fall best within an elemental theme (Fire and Air/Wind) but there are yet to be Clerics that fall into the Water or Earth elemental archetype without feeling too awkward. Earth-Based spells in D&D also seem to be a very small pool. An Earth-Based Cleric archetype could be interesting to see, and could bring a dynamic to the Cleric class that hasn't really been seen before.
Looking at real-world culture and history, Clerics make just as much sense as Druids when it comes to Geomancy, sometimes moreso. I would say the Grave Cleric is a decent pick for emulating a Chinese Geomancer if it were not for the fact that Clerics have only one earth-based spell (Earthquake) on their official spell list and that doesn't quite fit for that sort of archetype.
Clerics only have two Fire-based spells (Sacred Flame and Continual Flame are not Fire spells). Clerics also have Meld Into Stone. Air/Wind spells are absent altogether. Elemental themes are simply more suited to arcane classes than divine ones, exceptions notwithstanding.
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I want sea/oceanic classes myself, sorcerer and cleric, druid too.
Tempest is NOT oceanic themed, its storm themed and mostly air based with lightning powers tossed in. Saying Tempest/Storm is ocean themed is like saying we have earth themed classes because fireball exists.
It turns out that very few people play nautical campaigns because of a number of reasons. Notably, there’s nothing to do on the ship until something happens to the ship. Otherwise its either several sessions of the DM talking about nothing happening, or else the journey is over in the 10 minutes of travel montage the DM does and then they’re back on land again where there are things to investigate, clues to find. NPCa to socialize with, and an increased likelihood of reasonable combat opportunities. (Ship to ship combat is not something 5e does exactly well.
If you enable “Critical Roll content” you will find two newly added subclasses, one of with is a specifically “seafaring” Paladin “Oath of the Open Sea” you might like. And before they were forced to take it down DDB also used to host a 3rd party product titled Runtara, and that had an”Path of the Deep” Barbarian subclass. You can no longer access that content on DDB, but it is free to download elsewhere. So you won’t be able to use it on DDB unless you either recreate it as private Homebrew or find someone who can slip you a copy of a character on the DL. But it was cool and absolutely nautical in nature.
As to your desire for nautically themed Cleric Druid, and Sorcerer subclasses: whenever I discover that something I really want to play doesn’t exist yet, I Homebrew. You could too..
Thats part of the problem, to be oceanic in theme people assume you need to be playing in an ocean or on a ship to play one., but thats just false. Look at the druid of the land: coast. It has thematic flavor, it has thematic spells, nothing says "nope you can only play this on the coast". Or another decent example is the fathomless warlock to an extent with a lot of watery themes. It might require wizards to design some new water based spells and would probably be the biggest hold up in making one. BUT it doesn't need to be straight nautical campaign to play one. Your kinda saying in a way "well we don't have much in the way of fire spell caster support because people don't like to play campaigns in volcanos or on the elemental plane of fire"
Infact that was my biggest grip about the UA sea sorcerer, it had to much nautical feel with the curse of the sea and lightning damage riders.. That's STORMS not the sea (the other abilities where nice n aquatic tho)
Sure you can homebrew it, there was a good third party underwater campaign setting with a lot of watery spells that was good. Just dont see why Wizards can't get creative for once and produce something that isn't just fire. Tidal Wave was a nice peek at them branching out some in Elemental Evil but that's about where it died out.
Thats part of the problem, to be oceanic in theme people assume you need to be playing in an ocean or on a ship to play one., but thats just false. Look at the druid of the land: coast. It has thematic flavor, it has thematic spells, nothing says "nope you can only play this on the coast". Or another decent example is the fathomless warlock to an extent with a lot of watery themes. It might require wizards to design some new water based spells and would probably be the biggest hold up in making one. BUT it doesn't need to be straight nautical campaign to play one. Your kinda saying in a way "well we don't have much in the way of fire spell caster support because people don't like to play campaigns in volcanos or on the elemental plane of fire"
Infact that was my biggest grip about the UA sea sorcerer, it had to much nautical feel with the curse of the sea and lightning damage riders.. That's STORMS not the sea (the other abilities where nice n aquatic tho)
Sure you can homebrew it, there was a good third party underwater campaign setting with a lot of watery spells that was good. Just dont see why Wizards can't get creative for once and produce something that isn't just fire. Tidal Wave was a nice peek at them branching out some in Elemental Evil but that's about where it died out.
Okay, taking this from the bottom up:
I won’t comment on the spells other than to say that it’s easier to make fire based spells because fire damage is a thing. If they use cold damage people will complain “that’s cold, not ‘ocean.’” I suppose they would just have to keep using bludgeoning damage. 🤷♂️
As to that Sea Sorcerer from that UA from forever ago, I got nothing. Almost every oceanic tale ever told has in some way shape or form included a storm. I think one of the most iconic parts of pretty much any nautical narrative: Old Man and the Sea, 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea, Moby Dick, The Odyssey…. I didn’t really have a problem with a little lightning. 🤷♂️ You felt that overall it was fine, but that one single part of one single feature killed it for you though. I suppose Ican appreciate that. But counter argument: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_eel
And, prey tells, why “fire” would have to be exclusively associated with “volcanoes.” Because they’re both hot…? One of my best friends can start a campfire with damp wood using nothing but friction. (I’ve seen it.) Fire and volcanoes are in no way intrinsically linked, so associating fire exclusively with volcanoes is a poor argument. (As opposed to associating oceanic things with oceans.) So I reject your entire premise of that argument.
Regarding the Fathomless Warlock, that was originally supposed to be an attempt by WotC to address the concept of Psionics in 5e....
Full Version:
Their first two attempts to bring Psionics into this edition culminated in what was to be the third installment of the doomed Mystic class. After that iteration, WotC finally decided to no longer fall victim to the Sunk Cost Fallacy. So they decided to go back to the drawing board and attempt to handle Psionics in a wholly different way in WotC’s fourth attempt to bring Psionics to 5e, including a subclass dubbed “The Lurker in the Deep.” It drew heavily from the Cthulhu mythos and its association with Leviathin.^ Of course, Lovecraft drew heavily upon a the creature by that name from the Judeo-Christian mythos.^^ So it was really all to do with Lovecraftian-style psychic monsters from the far realms that happened to be associated with the oceans.
But when the communities general backlash surrounding Psionics in 5e hit WotC yet again about that UA, both of those subclasses got canned and replaced with their fifth attempt at Psionics. That also caught backlash, some parts were canned, others redesigned, and we got WotC’s sixth attempt at Psionics this edition… you guessed it. Finally, we got their “that’s it, take it or leave it” versions of Psionic in Tasha’s Cauldron which, also happened to include a revised version of that Lurker in the Deep subclass from way the heck back. Turns out people didn’t like the name, and hated it as an attempt at Psionics specifically, but liked the rest of it. So, WotC changed the name, backpedaled from the Psi aspect and leaned into the “gifted power by a ‘sea monster’ Warlock.”
None of the other Warlocks can only use their powers in their Patrons’ domains either. So it is perfectly congruent to disassociate an Sealock from the physical seas & oceans and from Elemental Plane of Water. Less so for an “Ocean Domain Cleric.”
Abridged Version:
WotC’s fourth attempt to bring Psionics to 5e, including a subclass dubbed “The Lurker in the Deep.” It drew heavily from the Cthulhu mythos and its association with Leviathin.^ Of course, Lovecraft drew heavily upon a the creature by that name from the Judeo-Christian mythos.^^ So it was really all to do with Lovecraftian-style psychic monsters from the far realms that happened to be associated with the oceans. But when the communities general backlash surrounding Psionics in 5e hit WotC yet again about that UA, both of those subclasses got canned and replaced.
After two more attempts, we finally got their “that’s it, take it or leave it” versions of Psionic in Tasha’s Cauldron which,• also happened to include a revised version of that Lurker in the Deep subclass from way the heck back. Turns out people didn’t like the name, and hated it as an attempt at Psionics specifically, but liked the rest of it. So, WotC changed the name, backpedaled from the Psi aspect and leaned into the “gifted power by a ‘sea monster’ Warlock.” None of the other Warlocks can only use their powers in their Patrons’ domains either. So it is perfectly congruent to disassociate an Sealock from the physical seas & oceans and from Elemental Plane of Water. Less so for an “Ocean Domain Cleric.”
•Containing combined elements of the fourth and sixth attempts.
That’s specifically why it is the Circle of the Land (Coast) and not (“Ocean”). That was an intentional choice because the coast includes both land and sea.* It is a bridgepoint betwixt as it were. Additionally, “coast” could also refer to the shores of large lakes and other sizable enough bodies of water. A CotL(Coast) Druid could theoretically associate with an environment as much like the shores of Lake Superior as much as the Jersey Shore. (Especially when one considers the local propensity for spray tanning oneself to the approximate shade of a Dorito. 😖)
*(Even for M:tG, blue mana is associated with “Islands” and not the oceans/seas itself, even though it is mostly all about the water. That was again a way to incorporate both the water and the land into the concept.)
So you will have to forgive people for associating a subclass that would be named the “Ocean Domain Cleric” with, ya know... the ocean.... Remember that a ”Domain” is about a specific aspect of a god’s or goddess’s portfolio of Domains. So if they make an “Ocean Domain” subclass, then yeah it kinda does in fact have to be all about oceans and nautical stuff on account of that specific domain being all about (pause for effect) the ocean…. Having looked through the full list of currently available Cleric domains I can reasonably consider that “Sea Deity^^^” could include any of the following in their portfolio: Arcana, Death, Life, Nature, Tempest, Trickery, Twilight, and War. If there were an Ocean or Water domain then obviously they would apply as well. And i could see an “Ocean Domain” being in the portfolios of deities of Water, Oceans/Seas, thalassic occupations like Fisherfolks, Sailors, etc. and some select other demographics like Travelers, Merchants, etc.
I’m not saying that an ocean domain doesn’t make sense in an intellectual way. I’m not saying that an ocean domain would have to be the only domain associated with an oceanic deity. Nor am I saying that only ocean deities could possibly have an ocean domain in their portfolios. What I am saying is that the class features for an “Ocean Domain” subclass would have to be all about ocean type stuff. Okay, not the 8th-level feature, that one’s a gimme. And without those new watery spells you want isn’t worth talking domain spells.
But all the rest... there’s really only so much they can do with an ocean themed subclass. Ribbons like water breathing, and a swimming speed can only carry it so far…. I mean, they couldn’t do more tentacles. For one thing it’s been done. For another they make sense for a Warlock who made a pact with a sea monster. But tentacles would but it would be as big a stretch for an Ocean Domain Cleric as you claim lightning to be. I mean, their Chanel Divinity power would have to be explicitly and specifically oceanic.
So I tell you what: If you can write up an Ocean Domain’s class features in a way that is both specifically “oceanic” and could still use its abilities anywhere and I’ll concede the point to you. You’re off the hook for the domain spells and you’ve already got the 1st-level ribbon to go with, so you’re off the hook there too. And 8th-level should be easy for you, it’s a binary choice. But you gotta give me the other 1st-level ability, a Channel Divinity for 2nd-level, and two more appropriate abilities for 6th and 17th levels. Fair deal?
Thats part of the problem, to be oceanic in theme people assume you need to be playing in an ocean or on a ship to play one., but thats just false. Look at the druid of the land: coast. It has thematic flavor, it has thematic spells, nothing says "nope you can only play this on the coast". Or another decent example is the fathomless warlock to an extent with a lot of watery themes. It might require wizards to design some new water based spells and would probably be the biggest hold up in making one. BUT it doesn't need to be straight nautical campaign to play one. Your kinda saying in a way "well we don't have much in the way of fire spell caster support because people don't like to play campaigns in volcanos or on the elemental plane of fire"
Infact that was my biggest grip about the UA sea sorcerer, it had to much nautical feel with the curse of the sea and lightning damage riders.. That's STORMS not the sea (the other abilities where nice n aquatic tho)
Sure you can homebrew it, there was a good third party underwater campaign setting with a lot of watery spells that was good. Just dont see why Wizards can't get creative for once and produce something that isn't just fire. Tidal Wave was a nice peek at them branching out some in Elemental Evil but that's about where it died out.
Okay, taking this from the bottom up:
I won’t comment on the spells other than to say that it’s easier to make fire based spells because fire damage is a thing. If they use cold damage people will complain “that’s cold, not ‘ocean.’” I suppose they would just have to keep using bludgeoning damage. 🤷♂️
As to that Sea Sorcerer from that UA from forever ago, I got nothing. Almost every oceanic tale ever told has in some way shape or form included a storm. I think one of the most iconic parts of pretty much any nautical narrative: Old Man and the Sea, 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea, Moby Dick, The Odyssey…. I didn’t really have a problem with a little lightning. 🤷♂️ You felt that overall it was fine, but that one single part of one single feature killed it for you though. I suppose Ican appreciate that. But counter argument:
And, prey tells, why “fire” would have to be exclusively associated with “volcanoes.” Because they’re both hot…? One of my best friends can start a campfire with damp wood using nothing but friction. (I’ve seen it.) Fire and volcanoes are in no way intrinsically linked, so associating fire exclusively with volcanoes is a poor argument. (As opposed to associating oceanic things with oceans.) So I reject your entire premise of that argument.
Regarding the Fathomless Warlock, that was originally supposed to be an attempt by WotC to address the concept of Psionics in 5e....
Full Version:
Their first two attempts to bring Psionics into this edition culminated in what was to be the third installment of the doomed Mystic class. After that iteration, WotC finally decided to no longer fall victim to the Sunk Cost Fallacy. So they decided to go back to the drawing board and attempt to handle Psionics in a wholly different way in WotC’s fourth attempt to bring Psionics to 5e, including a subclass dubbed “The Lurker in the Deep.” It drew heavily from the Cthulhu mythos and its association with Leviathin.^ Of course, Lovecraft drew heavily upon a the creature by that name from the Judeo-Christian mythos.^^ So it was really all to do with Lovecraftian-style psychic monsters from the far realms that happened to be associated with the oceans.
But when the communities general backlash surrounding Psionics in 5e hit WotC yet again about that UA, both of those subclasses got canned and replaced with their fifth attempt at Psionics. That also caught backlash, some parts were canned, others redesigned, and we got WotC’s sixth attempt at Psionics this edition… you guessed it. Finally, we got their “that’s it, take it or leave it” versions of Psionic in Tasha’s Cauldron which, also happened to include a revised version of that Lurker in the Deep subclass from way the heck back. Turns out people didn’t like the name, and hated it as an attempt at Psionics specifically, but liked the rest of it. So, WotC changed the name, backpedaled from the Psi aspect and leaned into the “gifted power by a ‘sea monster’ Warlock.”
None of the other Warlocks can only use their powers in their Patrons’ domains either. So it is perfectly congruent to disassociate an Sealock from the physical seas & oceans and from Elemental Plane of Water. Less so for an “Ocean Domain Cleric.”
Abridged Version:
WotC’s fourth attempt to bring Psionics to 5e, including a subclass dubbed “The Lurker in the Deep.” It drew heavily from the Cthulhu mythos and its association with Leviathin.^ Of course, Lovecraft drew heavily upon a the creature by that name from the Judeo-Christian mythos.^^ So it was really all to do with Lovecraftian-style psychic monsters from the far realms that happened to be associated with the oceans. But when the communities general backlash surrounding Psionics in 5e hit WotC yet again about that UA, both of those subclasses got canned and replaced.
After two more attempts, we finally got their “that’s it, take it or leave it” versions of Psionic in Tasha’s Cauldron which,• also happened to include a revised version of that Lurker in the Deep subclass from way the heck back. Turns out people didn’t like the name, and hated it as an attempt at Psionics specifically, but liked the rest of it. So, WotC changed the name, backpedaled from the Psi aspect and leaned into the “gifted power by a ‘sea monster’ Warlock.” None of the other Warlocks can only use their powers in their Patrons’ domains either. So it is perfectly congruent to disassociate an Sealock from the physical seas & oceans and from Elemental Plane of Water. Less so for an “Ocean Domain Cleric.”
•Containing combined elements of the fourth and sixth attempts.
That’s specifically why it is the Circle of the Land (Coast) and not (“Ocean”). That was an intentional choice because the coast includes both land and sea.* It is a bridgepoint betwixt as it were. Additionally, “coast” could also refer to the shores of large lakes and other sizable enough bodies of water. A CotL(Coast) Druid could theoretically associate with an environment as much like the shores of Lake Superior as much as the Jersey Shore. (Especially when one considers the local propensity for spray tanning oneself to the approximate shade of a Dorito. 😖)
*(Even for M:tG, blue mana is associated with “Islands” and not the oceans/seas itself, even though it is mostly all about the water. That was again a way to incorporate both the water and the land into the concept.)
So you will have to forgive people for associating a subclass that would be named the “Ocean Domain Cleric” with, ya know... the ocean.... Remember that a ”Domain” is about a specific aspect of a god’s or goddess’s portfolio of Domains. So if they make an “Ocean Domain” subclass, then yeah it kinda does in fact have to be all about oceans and nautical stuff on account of that specific domain being all about (pause for effect) the ocean…. Having looked through the full list of currently available Cleric domains I can reasonably consider that “Sea Deity^^^” could include any of the following in their portfolio: Arcana, Death, Life, Nature, Tempest, Trickery, Twilight, and War. If there were an Ocean or Water domain then obviously they would apply as well. And i could see an “Ocean Domain” being in the portfolios of deities of Water, Oceans/Seas, thalassic occupations like Fisherfolks, Sailors, etc. and some select other demographics like Travelers, Merchants, etc.
I’m not saying that an ocean domain doesn’t make sense in an intellectual way. I’m not saying that an ocean domain would have to be the only domain associated with an oceanic deity. Nor am I saying that only ocean deities could possibly have an ocean domain in their portfolios. What I am saying is that the class features for an “Ocean Domain” subclass would have to be all about ocean type stuff. Okay, not the 8th-level feature, that one’s a gimme. And without those new watery spells you want isn’t worth talking domain spells.
But all the rest... there’s really only so much they can do with an ocean themed subclass. Ribbons like water breathing, and a swimming speed can only carry it so far…. I mean, they couldn’t do more tentacles. For one thing it’s been done. For another they make sense for a Warlock who made a pact with a sea monster. But tentacles would but it would be as big a stretch for an Ocean Domain Cleric as you claim lightning to be. I mean, their Chanel Divinity power would have to be explicitly and specifically oceanic.
So I tell you what: If you can write up an Ocean Domain’s class features in a way that is both specifically “oceanic” and could still use its abilities anywhere and I’ll concede the point to you. You’re off the hook for the domain spells and you’ve already got the 1st-level ribbon to go with, so you’re off the hook there too. And 8th-level should be easy for you, it’s a binary choice. But you gotta give me the other 1st-level ability, a Channel Divinity for 2nd-level, and two more appropriate abilities for 6th and 17th levels. Fair deal?
I generally associate these damage types with these elements:
Fire: Fire
Air: Lightning, Thunder
Water: Cold, Acid
Stone: Blugeoning
There is also a lot more you can do in addition to pure damage types, which is what the elemental sorcerers did. Air is mobile and fast. Fire signifies rebirth as well as destruction. Stone is sturdy and strong. Water is adaptable and changeable. All these can be worked into an elemental based class to make it play differently in addition to just giving it some damage type spells.
There are plenty of water themed characters in fantasy which don't rely on being in a boat to function.
The requirement isn't just that it would be a viable option. It also needs to be more compelling than any other new potential domain they might want to introduce.
As others have pointed out, if you want a water-affinity character you can satisfy that pretty well through racial choices such as sea elf, triton, or water genasi. This would drop "water cleric" in priority over other less-populated design spaces.
Furthermore, you need to think about the identity of the classes. Clerics are not supposed to be strictly elemental-aligned. That is the domain of sorcerers or druids. Clerics represent divine forces - hence Tempest Cleric as storms (or the lack of such) are traditionally the manifestation of an ocean god's mood.
Would a water cleric be cool? Sure. Is it at the top of the list of new domains I'd like to see? No.
The requirement isn't just that it would be a viable option. It also needs to be more compelling than any other new potential domain they might want to introduce.
Not to mention to be more compelling to add a 15th cleric domain than an 8th sorcerous origin or druid circle (with, as you say, elemental themes being more suited to those latter two classes than to clerics to boot).
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Thats part of the problem, to be oceanic in theme people assume you need to be playing in an ocean or on a ship to play one., but thats just false. Look at the druid of the land: coast. It has thematic flavor, it has thematic spells, nothing says "nope you can only play this on the coast". Or another decent example is the fathomless warlock to an extent with a lot of watery themes. It might require wizards to design some new water based spells and would probably be the biggest hold up in making one. BUT it doesn't need to be straight nautical campaign to play one. Your kinda saying in a way "well we don't have much in the way of fire spell caster support because people don't like to play campaigns in volcanos or on the elemental plane of fire"
Infact that was my biggest grip about the UA sea sorcerer, it had to much nautical feel with the curse of the sea and lightning damage riders.. That's STORMS not the sea (the other abilities where nice n aquatic tho)
Sure you can homebrew it, there was a good third party underwater campaign setting with a lot of watery spells that was good. Just dont see why Wizards can't get creative for once and produce something that isn't just fire. Tidal Wave was a nice peek at them branching out some in Elemental Evil but that's about where it died out.
Okay, taking this from the bottom up:
I won’t comment on the spells other than to say that it’s easier to make fire based spells because fire damage is a thing. If they use cold damage people will complain “that’s cold, not ‘ocean.’” I suppose they would just have to keep using bludgeoning damage. 🤷♂️
As to that Sea Sorcerer from that UA from forever ago, I got nothing. Almost every oceanic tale ever told has in some way shape or form included a storm. I think one of the most iconic parts of pretty much any nautical narrative: Old Man and the Sea, 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea, Moby Dick, The Odyssey…. I didn’t really have a problem with a little lightning. 🤷♂️ You felt that overall it was fine, but that one single part of one single feature killed it for you though. I suppose Ican appreciate that. But counter argument: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_eel
And, prey tells, why “fire” would have to be exclusively associated with “volcanoes.” Because they’re both hot…? One of my best friends can start a campfire with damp wood using nothing but friction. (I’ve seen it.) Fire and volcanoes are in no way intrinsically linked, so associating fire exclusively with volcanoes is a poor argument. (As opposed to associating oceanic things with oceans.) So I reject your entire premise of that argument.
Regarding the Fathomless Warlock, that was originally supposed to be an attempt by WotC to address the concept of Psionics in 5e....
Full Version:
Their first two attempts to bring Psionics into this edition culminated in what was to be the third installment of the doomed Mystic class. After that iteration, WotC finally decided to no longer fall victim to the Sunk Cost Fallacy. So they decided to go back to the drawing board and attempt to handle Psionics in a wholly different way in WotC’s fourth attempt to bring Psionics to 5e, including a subclass dubbed “The Lurker in the Deep.” It drew heavily from the Cthulhu mythos and its association with Leviathin.^ Of course, Lovecraft drew heavily upon a the creature by that name from the Judeo-Christian mythos.^^ So it was really all to do with Lovecraftian-style psychic monsters from the far realms that happened to be associated with the oceans.
But when the communities general backlash surrounding Psionics in 5e hit WotC yet again about that UA, both of those subclasses got canned and replaced with their fifth attempt at Psionics. That also caught backlash, some parts were canned, others redesigned, and we got WotC’s sixth attempt at Psionics this edition… you guessed it. Finally, we got their “that’s it, take it or leave it” versions of Psionic in Tasha’s Cauldron which, also happened to include a revised version of that Lurker in the Deep subclass from way the heck back. Turns out people didn’t like the name, and hated it as an attempt at Psionics specifically, but liked the rest of it. So, WotC changed the name, backpedaled from the Psi aspect and leaned into the “gifted power by a ‘sea monster’ Warlock.”
None of the other Warlocks can only use their powers in their Patrons’ domains either. So it is perfectly congruent to disassociate an Sealock from the physical seas & oceans and from Elemental Plane of Water. Less so for an “Ocean Domain Cleric.”
Abridged Version:
WotC’s fourth attempt to bring Psionics to 5e, including a subclass dubbed “The Lurker in the Deep.” It drew heavily from the Cthulhu mythos and its association with Leviathin.^ Of course, Lovecraft drew heavily upon a the creature by that name from the Judeo-Christian mythos.^^ So it was really all to do with Lovecraftian-style psychic monsters from the far realms that happened to be associated with the oceans. But when the communities general backlash surrounding Psionics in 5e hit WotC yet again about that UA, both of those subclasses got canned and replaced.
After two more attempts, we finally got their “that’s it, take it or leave it” versions of Psionic in Tasha’s Cauldron which,• also happened to include a revised version of that Lurker in the Deep subclass from way the heck back. Turns out people didn’t like the name, and hated it as an attempt at Psionics specifically, but liked the rest of it. So, WotC changed the name, backpedaled from the Psi aspect and leaned into the “gifted power by a ‘sea monster’ Warlock.” None of the other Warlocks can only use their powers in their Patrons’ domains either. So it is perfectly congruent to disassociate an Sealock from the physical seas & oceans and from Elemental Plane of Water. Less so for an “Ocean Domain Cleric.”
•Containing combined elements of the fourth and sixth attempts.
That’s specifically why it is the Circle of the Land (Coast) and not (“Ocean”). That was an intentional choice because the coast includes both land and sea.* It is a bridgepoint betwixt as it were. Additionally, “coast” could also refer to the shores of large lakes and other sizable enough bodies of water. A CotL(Coast) Druid could theoretically associate with an environment as much like the shores of Lake Superior as much as the Jersey Shore. (Especially when one considers the local propensity for spray tanning oneself to the approximate shade of a Dorito. 😖)
*(Even for M:tG, blue mana is associated with “Islands” and not the oceans/seas itself, even though it is mostly all about the water. That was again a way to incorporate both the water and the land into the concept.)
So you will have to forgive people for associating a subclass that would be named the “Ocean Domain Cleric” with, ya know... the ocean.... Remember that a ”Domain” is about a specific aspect of a god’s or goddess’s portfolio of Domains. So if they make an “Ocean Domain” subclass, then yeah it kinda does in fact have to be all about oceans and nautical stuff on account of that specific domain being all about (pause for effect) the ocean…. Having looked through the full list of currently available Cleric domains I can reasonably consider that “Sea Deity^^^” could include any of the following in their portfolio: Arcana, Death, Life, Nature, Tempest, Trickery, Twilight, and War. If there were an Ocean or Water domain then obviously they would apply as well. And i could see an “Ocean Domain” being in the portfolios of deities of Water, Oceans/Seas, thalassic occupations like Fisherfolks, Sailors, etc. and some select other demographics like Travelers, Merchants, etc.
I’m not saying that an ocean domain doesn’t make sense in an intellectual way. I’m not saying that an ocean domain would have to be the only domain associated with an oceanic deity. Nor am I saying that only ocean deities could possibly have an ocean domain in their portfolios. What I am saying is that the class features for an “Ocean Domain” subclass would have to be all about ocean type stuff. Okay, not the 8th-level feature, that one’s a gimme. And without those new watery spells you want isn’t worth talking domain spells.
But all the rest... there’s really only so much they can do with an ocean themed subclass. Ribbons like water breathing, and a swimming speed can only carry it so far…. I mean, they couldn’t do more tentacles. For one thing it’s been done. For another they make sense for a Warlock who made a pact with a sea monster. But tentacles would but it would be as big a stretch for an Ocean Domain Cleric as you claim lightning to be. I mean, their Chanel Divinity power would have to be explicitly and specifically oceanic.
So I tell you what: If you can write up an Ocean Domain’s class features in a way that is both specifically “oceanic” and could still use its abilities anywhere and I’ll concede the point to you. You’re off the hook for the domain spells and you’ve already got the 1st-level ribbon to go with, so you’re off the hook there too. And 8th-level should be easy for you, it’s a binary choice. But you gotta give me the other 1st-level ability, a Channel Divinity for 2nd-level, and two more appropriate abilities for 6th and 17th levels. Fair deal?
Ocean's / water is generally associated with healing and cleansing aspects as just plain water as well. so if we're going to do a cleric domain I would include spells Lesser restoration, restoration, cure wounds on the domain spell list. I would also include some of the water spells we currently have like Tidal Wave, Wall of water, control water and conjure elemental but for water elementals only.
off the top of my head minimal thinking you could toss poison immunity in at some level which I'm not sure because at 6 it could be ribbon like or really good dependent on the campaign. It could also be a spell recovery ability called Ocean's Ebb to symbolize the oceans power rushing into you. as for a channel divinity I would add in something called "Crashing waves" targets of your next spell are hammered by the power of the oceans waves, str save or be knocked prone as well as whatever the spell also did. (might need some work could be a little underpowered but basic concept save style could change). If you dont like that one than what about something like High tides, infusing your allies with the power of the surging seas you enable them to take an additional action this turn. kinda strong but basic concept
lvl 18? honestly I'm not sure I've never played a campaign up that high and I've seen a lot of 18 features that are.. really lame. Could add in the watery body ability that lets you squeeze through 1 inch gaps but that could be fairly meh.
Again this is... 3 minutes worth of effort rolling ideas that pop into my head right away? This doesn't include things like wizards designing new water themed spells to go with the class or anything as well. Something that they typically do (something I've always had in mind was a spell called aqua blade that was a line spell say 20-30 feet long that could also knock targets around if hit or something, as well as a control spell that's coral growth, an AOE concentration heal is another called resplendent rains/nourishing rains, another would be rip tide, ensnaring ability that moves targets 10 feet as well). But there you go, ocean and water in theme, useful anywhere, it doesn't all need to be I breath underwater or swim
I could sit and actually design something homebrew sure but its exactly that homebrew. I want something offical from wizards and theres really no reason it couldn't work easily.
edit: also want to bring up "And, prey tells, why “fire” would have to be exclusively associated with “volcanoes.” Because they’re both hot…? One of my best friends can start a campfire with damp wood using nothing but friction. (I’ve seen it.) Fire and volcanoes are in no way intrinsically linked, so associating fire exclusively with volcanoes is a poor argument. (As opposed to associating oceanic things with oceans.) So I reject your entire premise of that argument."
Thats exactly my point, nobody bats an eye at fire being something other than in a hot fiery area, but you try and say "ocean themes and powers" and you get narrow minded and go "well that only works underwater" Why would a fire cleric work, or a tempest cleric work or a twilight cleric work outside those conditions either if your trying to have a very narrow view of where this or that can work. "Forge domain?? whats the point when hes making weapons he can cast spells?? how limited!" Gotta ya know.. open your mind some to a concept
Ocean's / water is generally associated with healing and cleansing aspects as just plain water as well. so if we're going to do a cleric domain I would include spells Lesser restoration, restoration, cure wounds on the domain spell list.
Life Domain overlap.
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I can understand not thinking that a Water/Ocean Domain Cleric is needed, as the Tempest Cleric is meant to cover storm, sky, and sea.
I would like a Winter Domain Cleric though.....
As for the other classes having water subclasses, there was a UA Sea Sorcerer though it never made it to publication. I feel like having a Sorcerer influenced by the Elemental Plane of Water or ancient sea creatures makes sense. Same with having a Sorcerer influenced by the Elemental Planes of Fire or Earth.
Yeah, we don't need to go back to the days of third edition where there were dozens of cleric domains for every conceivable type of deity imaginable, no matter how redundant it was.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I can see some potential Life Domain, and possible Nature Domain, overlap with Earth and Water Cleric archetypes. But to be fair, some of the current cleric Domains already have a bit of overlap, it's an inevitability when you have a subclass system like what D&D 5E is doing. The elements of Earth and Water are associated with life and nurturing, hence why I mentioned potential overlap with the Nature domain, but at the same time, they have so much more to them. Fire and Water have overlapping aspects associated with them, I'm serious, while water has a "cleansing" aspect to it, as you put it, fire has a purifying aspect to it, symbolic (and often literal) fire is said to have the power to burn away impurities, which is similar to cleansing water washing away impurities. The earth is a symbol of both physical and metaphorical strength and resilience, which works really well for the spiritual components of being Clerc (also, Clerics tend to be that way physically in most builds) so, in a sense, an Earth-themed Cleric just makes sense. Granted, quite a few people might see an earth-themed cleric archetype as a wannabe Fighter or Barbarian, especially if a lot of the archetype's features center around strength and durability (or as I like to call it, the lazy way). Grave Clerics have a bunch of interesting abilities, and if it were not for the lack of earth-themed spells for Clerics (and in general) I would even make an argument for them being an Earth-themed Cleric.
In short, you never know how amazing, or similar, something is until you take a closer look, and maybe experience a bit of it for yourself.
True enough, Ireland, Scotland, and England used the term Fairy as a catchall for supernatural beings, it's very noticeable with Ireland due to the fact their standing lore withstood outside attempts to purge it the most.
Personally, I prefer my Trolls more like D. & L. Eddings’ from The Tamuli. (Follow up series to The Elenium.) I
lifteddrew heavy creative inspiration from their pantheon and everything.So in my ”semiho Mystara,” after a Troll worship Ghworg (god of Kill), but before they worship Ghnomb (god of eat), they always share some of their meat with Khwaj (god of Fire) because they believe it pleases him. Their other two gods are Schlee and Zoka, (their gods of Ice and Mating respectively.
They are also highly moral and absolutely disgusted by certain behaviors they observe in Humanoid races, notably kidnapping, ****, and murder (defined as “unwarranted killing.”) Killing is totally cool if they had it coming... or there’s a war on… or you’re worshiping Ghworg… or if you’re hungry…. But they would never eat a Hunan! (That’s forbidden.) Eating other humanoids is fine though, and dog is a particular delicacy. They have a “genderless” society in which all are equal and the only recognized distinction between males and females is purely reproductive, and therefor part of their worship to Zoka.
They are also fairly cosmopolitan. Trolls of both sexes wear makeup. Trolls make clothing and manufacture tools and weapons (though not of metal as they lack that technology.) And Troll-made jewelry is actually rather sought after in some circles.
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In older editions of D&D, the Norse trolls that were intelligent and had magical powers were known as Fensir. They've generally been native to the Outer Plane of Ysgard and are therefore quite rare in the prime.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I want sea/oceanic classes myself, sorcerer and cleric, druid too.
Tempest is NOT oceanic themed, its storm themed and mostly air based with lightning powers tossed in. Saying Tempest/Storm is ocean themed is like saying we have earth themed classes because fireball exists.
It turns out that very few people play nautical campaigns because of a number of reasons. Notably, there’s nothing to do on the ship until something happens to the ship. Otherwise its either several sessions of the DM talking about nothing happening, or else the journey is over in the 10 minutes of travel montage the DM does and then they’re back on land again where there are things to investigate, clues to find. NPCa to socialize with, and an increased likelihood of reasonable combat opportunities. (Ship to ship combat is not something 5e does exactly well.
If you enable “Critical Roll content” you will find two newly added subclasses, one of with is a specifically “seafaring” Paladin “Oath of the Open Sea” you might like. And before they were forced to take it down DDB also used to host a 3rd party product titled Runtara, and that had an”Path of the Deep” Barbarian subclass. You can no longer access that content on DDB, but it is free to download elsewhere. So you won’t be able to use it on DDB unless you either recreate it as private Homebrew or find someone who can slip you a copy of a character on the DL. But it was cool and absolutely nautical in nature.
As to your desire for nautically themed Cleric Druid, and Sorcerer subclasses: whenever I discover that something I really want to play doesn’t exist yet, I Homebrew. You could too..
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Really ANY cleric domain can be ocean- themed. Life Domain? The oceans are the primordial cradles from which life first emerged, and are churning with biodiversity and life. Grave domain? Pick your favorite seafaring ghost story about a ghost ship or skeleton pirates or drowned city that your cleric has an affinity for-- the ocean is the largest mass-grave in the world, always swallowing up the un-careful or just unlucky. Knowledge domain? Who knows how many secrets lie at the bottom of the ocean, and what was meant to see the light of day again? Maybe your God has given you insight into some of these secrets for your faith and service, but the knowledge is changed from its long millenia beneath the waves and is now Of the Sea, and so is your power. War Domain? How many battles have been fought on the sea? Too many to count.
The reason there's not specifically a sea cleric is because actually making one would limit your choices, not broaden them. Saying "this is a Sea Cleric" is, in subtext, saying "all of *these* are not Sea Clerics." Instead, if you want an ocean- themed cleric, the subclass is not what's gonna get you there. Look at spell choice, backgrounds, feats, ideals, bonds, flaws, etc. Talk to your DM about re-skinning or re-flavoring spells and abilities if you need to. That's how you customize your cleric to be an X Domain of the Sea.
The cleric isn't like the Warlock who gets their power based off a specific type of patron, or a sorcerer who gets power from a unique bloodline. Cleric Domains are based off concepts, ideas, the same stuff that gods are often based off of. It depends more on what the culture of worship associates with the sea, more than any intrinsic oceanic properties.
I can see that point. But still, there are still Cleric archetypes to fall best within an elemental theme (Fire and Air/Wind) but there are yet to be Clerics that fall into the Water or Earth elemental archetype without feeling too awkward. Earth-Based spells in D&D also seem to be a very small pool. An Earth-Based Cleric archetype could be interesting to see, and could bring a dynamic to the Cleric class that hasn't really been seen before.
Looking at real-world culture and history, Clerics make just as much sense as Druids when it comes to Geomancy, sometimes moreso. I would say the Grave Cleric is a decent pick for emulating a Chinese Geomancer if it were not for the fact that Clerics have only one earth-based spell (Earthquake) on their official spell list and that doesn't quite fit for that sort of archetype.
Clerics only have two Fire-based spells (Sacred Flame and Continual Flame are not Fire spells). Clerics also have Meld Into Stone. Air/Wind spells are absent altogether. Elemental themes are simply more suited to arcane classes than divine ones, exceptions notwithstanding.
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Thats part of the problem, to be oceanic in theme people assume you need to be playing in an ocean or on a ship to play one., but thats just false. Look at the druid of the land: coast. It has thematic flavor, it has thematic spells, nothing says "nope you can only play this on the coast". Or another decent example is the fathomless warlock to an extent with a lot of watery themes. It might require wizards to design some new water based spells and would probably be the biggest hold up in making one. BUT it doesn't need to be straight nautical campaign to play one. Your kinda saying in a way "well we don't have much in the way of fire spell caster support because people don't like to play campaigns in volcanos or on the elemental plane of fire"
Infact that was my biggest grip about the UA sea sorcerer, it had to much nautical feel with the curse of the sea and lightning damage riders.. That's STORMS not the sea (the other abilities where nice n aquatic tho)
Sure you can homebrew it, there was a good third party underwater campaign setting with a lot of watery spells that was good. Just dont see why Wizards can't get creative for once and produce something that isn't just fire. Tidal Wave was a nice peek at them branching out some in Elemental Evil but that's about where it died out.
Okay, taking this from the bottom up:
I won’t comment on the spells other than to say that it’s easier to make fire based spells because fire damage is a thing. If they use cold damage people will complain “that’s cold, not ‘ocean.’” I suppose they would just have to keep using bludgeoning damage. 🤷♂️
As to that Sea Sorcerer from that UA from forever ago, I got nothing. Almost every oceanic tale ever told has in some way shape or form included a storm. I think one of the most iconic parts of pretty much any nautical narrative: Old Man and the Sea, 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea, Moby Dick, The Odyssey…. I didn’t really have a problem with a little lightning. 🤷♂️ You felt that overall it was fine, but that one single part of one single feature killed it for you though. I suppose Ican appreciate that. But counter argument: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_eel
And, prey tells, why “fire” would have to be exclusively associated with “volcanoes.” Because they’re both hot…? One of my best friends can start a campfire with damp wood using nothing but friction. (I’ve seen it.) Fire and volcanoes are in no way intrinsically linked, so associating fire exclusively with volcanoes is a poor argument. (As opposed to associating oceanic things with oceans.) So I reject your entire premise of that argument.
Regarding the Fathomless Warlock, that was originally supposed to be an attempt by WotC to address the concept of Psionics in 5e....
Full Version:
Their first two attempts to bring Psionics into this edition culminated in what was to be the third installment of the doomed Mystic class. After that iteration, WotC finally decided to no longer fall victim to the Sunk Cost Fallacy. So they decided to go back to the drawing board and attempt to handle Psionics in a wholly different way in WotC’s fourth attempt to bring Psionics to 5e, including a subclass dubbed “The Lurker in the Deep.” It drew heavily from the Cthulhu mythos and its association with Leviathin.^ Of course, Lovecraft drew heavily upon a the creature by that name from the Judeo-Christian mythos.^^ So it was really all to do with Lovecraftian-style psychic monsters from the far realms that happened to be associated with the oceans.
But when the communities general backlash surrounding Psionics in 5e hit WotC yet again about that UA, both of those subclasses got canned and replaced with their fifth attempt at Psionics. That also caught backlash, some parts were canned, others redesigned, and we got WotC’s sixth attempt at Psionics this edition… you guessed it. Finally, we got their “that’s it, take it or leave it” versions of Psionic in Tasha’s Cauldron which, also happened to include a revised version of that Lurker in the Deep subclass from way the heck back. Turns out people didn’t like the name, and hated it as an attempt at Psionics specifically, but liked the rest of it. So, WotC changed the name, backpedaled from the Psi aspect and leaned into the “gifted power by a ‘sea monster’ Warlock.”
None of the other Warlocks can only use their powers in their Patrons’ domains either. So it is perfectly congruent to disassociate an Sealock from the physical seas & oceans and from Elemental Plane of Water. Less so for an “Ocean Domain Cleric.”
Abridged Version:
WotC’s fourth attempt to bring Psionics to 5e, including a subclass dubbed “The Lurker in the Deep.” It drew heavily from the Cthulhu mythos and its association with Leviathin.^ Of course, Lovecraft drew heavily upon a the creature by that name from the Judeo-Christian mythos.^^ So it was really all to do with Lovecraftian-style psychic monsters from the far realms that happened to be associated with the oceans. But when the communities general backlash surrounding Psionics in 5e hit WotC yet again about that UA, both of those subclasses got canned and replaced.
After two more attempts, we finally got their “that’s it, take it or leave it” versions of Psionic in Tasha’s Cauldron which,• also happened to include a revised version of that Lurker in the Deep subclass from way the heck back. Turns out people didn’t like the name, and hated it as an attempt at Psionics specifically, but liked the rest of it. So, WotC changed the name, backpedaled from the Psi aspect and leaned into the “gifted power by a ‘sea monster’ Warlock.” None of the other Warlocks can only use their powers in their Patrons’ domains either. So it is perfectly congruent to disassociate an Sealock from the physical seas & oceans and from Elemental Plane of Water. Less so for an “Ocean Domain Cleric.”
•Containing combined elements of the fourth and sixth attempts.
That’s specifically why it is the Circle of the Land (Coast) and not (“Ocean”). That was an intentional choice because the coast includes both land and sea.* It is a bridgepoint betwixt as it were. Additionally, “coast” could also refer to the shores of large lakes and other sizable enough bodies of water. A CotL(Coast) Druid could theoretically associate with an environment as much like the shores of Lake Superior as much as the Jersey Shore. (Especially when one considers the local propensity for spray tanning oneself to the approximate shade of a Dorito. 😖)
*(Even for M:tG, blue mana is associated with “Islands” and not the oceans/seas itself, even though it is mostly all about the water. That was again a way to incorporate both the water and the land into the concept.)
So you will have to forgive people for associating a subclass that would be named the “Ocean Domain Cleric” with, ya know... the ocean.... Remember that a ”Domain” is about a specific aspect of a god’s or goddess’s portfolio of Domains. So if they make an “Ocean Domain” subclass, then yeah it kinda does in fact have to be all about oceans and nautical stuff on account of that specific domain being all about (pause for effect) the ocean…. Having looked through the full list of currently available Cleric domains I can reasonably consider that “Sea Deity^^^” could include any of the following in their portfolio: Arcana, Death, Life, Nature, Tempest, Trickery, Twilight, and War. If there were an Ocean or Water domain then obviously they would apply as well. And i could see an “Ocean Domain” being in the portfolios of deities of Water, Oceans/Seas, thalassic occupations like Fisherfolks, Sailors, etc. and some select other demographics like Travelers, Merchants, etc.
I’m not saying that an ocean domain doesn’t make sense in an intellectual way. I’m not saying that an ocean domain would have to be the only domain associated with an oceanic deity. Nor am I saying that only ocean deities could possibly have an ocean domain in their portfolios. What I am saying is that the class features for an “Ocean Domain” subclass would have to be all about ocean type stuff. Okay, not the 8th-level feature, that one’s a gimme. And without those new watery spells you want isn’t worth talking domain spells.
But all the rest... there’s really only so much they can do with an ocean themed subclass. Ribbons like water breathing, and a swimming speed can only carry it so far…. I mean, they couldn’t do more tentacles. For one thing it’s been done. For another they make sense for a Warlock who made a pact with a sea monster. But tentacles would but it would be as big a stretch for an Ocean Domain Cleric as you claim lightning to be. I mean, their Chanel Divinity power would have to be explicitly and specifically oceanic.
So I tell you what: If you can write up an Ocean Domain’s class features in a way that is both specifically “oceanic” and could still use its abilities anywhere and I’ll concede the point to you. You’re off the hook for the domain spells and you’ve already got the 1st-level ribbon to go with, so you’re off the hook there too. And 8th-level should be easy for you, it’s a binary choice. But you gotta give me the other 1st-level ability, a Channel Divinity for 2nd-level, and two more appropriate abilities for 6th and 17th levels. Fair deal?
References:
^1) https://media.wizards.com/2019/dnd/downloads/UA-AberrantLurk.pdf
^2) https://call-of-cthulhu.fandom.com/wiki/Leviathan
^^1) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leviathan
^^2) https://www.britannica.com/topic/Leviathan-Middle-Eastern-mythology
^^3) https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/leviathan
^^^) Who are the known “sea gods/goddesses” out there? Here’s a list: (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_water_deities) Grab some snacks, drink water, and plan bathroom breaks. Trust me.
(Please note that most of those are either deities of very specific bodies of water, or they also have some dominion over other things besides just “oceans.” Like Poseidon for example was “The Sea King,” with a whole wackton of lesser sea deities under him. But he was also god of earthquakes and horses. In fact, the whole story of the “Trojan Horse” may in fact have been a reference to an earthquake breaching the walls of Troy and the Greeks possibly attributing it to Poseidon.)
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That argument is amazing.
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I generally associate these damage types with these elements:
Fire: Fire
Air: Lightning, Thunder
Water: Cold, Acid
Stone: Blugeoning
There is also a lot more you can do in addition to pure damage types, which is what the elemental sorcerers did. Air is mobile and fast. Fire signifies rebirth as well as destruction. Stone is sturdy and strong. Water is adaptable and changeable. All these can be worked into an elemental based class to make it play differently in addition to just giving it some damage type spells.
There are plenty of water themed characters in fantasy which don't rely on being in a boat to function.
The requirement isn't just that it would be a viable option. It also needs to be more compelling than any other new potential domain they might want to introduce.
As others have pointed out, if you want a water-affinity character you can satisfy that pretty well through racial choices such as sea elf, triton, or water genasi. This would drop "water cleric" in priority over other less-populated design spaces.
Furthermore, you need to think about the identity of the classes. Clerics are not supposed to be strictly elemental-aligned. That is the domain of sorcerers or druids. Clerics represent divine forces - hence Tempest Cleric as storms (or the lack of such) are traditionally the manifestation of an ocean god's mood.
Would a water cleric be cool? Sure. Is it at the top of the list of new domains I'd like to see? No.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
Not to mention to be more compelling to add a 15th cleric domain than an 8th sorcerous origin or druid circle (with, as you say, elemental themes being more suited to those latter two classes than to clerics to boot).
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Ocean's / water is generally associated with healing and cleansing aspects as just plain water as well. so if we're going to do a cleric domain I would include spells Lesser restoration, restoration, cure wounds on the domain spell list. I would also include some of the water spells we currently have like Tidal Wave, Wall of water, control water and conjure elemental but for water elementals only.
off the top of my head minimal thinking you could toss poison immunity in at some level which I'm not sure because at 6 it could be ribbon like or really good dependent on the campaign. It could also be a spell recovery ability called Ocean's Ebb to symbolize the oceans power rushing into you. as for a channel divinity I would add in something called "Crashing waves" targets of your next spell are hammered by the power of the oceans waves, str save or be knocked prone as well as whatever the spell also did. (might need some work could be a little underpowered but basic concept save style could change). If you dont like that one than what about something like High tides, infusing your allies with the power of the surging seas you enable them to take an additional action this turn. kinda strong but basic concept
lvl 18? honestly I'm not sure I've never played a campaign up that high and I've seen a lot of 18 features that are.. really lame. Could add in the watery body ability that lets you squeeze through 1 inch gaps but that could be fairly meh.
Again this is... 3 minutes worth of effort rolling ideas that pop into my head right away? This doesn't include things like wizards designing new water themed spells to go with the class or anything as well. Something that they typically do (something I've always had in mind was a spell called aqua blade that was a line spell say 20-30 feet long that could also knock targets around if hit or something, as well as a control spell that's coral growth, an AOE concentration heal is another called resplendent rains/nourishing rains, another would be rip tide, ensnaring ability that moves targets 10 feet as well). But there you go, ocean and water in theme, useful anywhere, it doesn't all need to be I breath underwater or swim
I could sit and actually design something homebrew sure but its exactly that homebrew. I want something offical from wizards and theres really no reason it couldn't work easily.
edit: also want to bring up "And, prey tells, why “fire” would have to be exclusively associated with “volcanoes.” Because they’re both hot…? One of my best friends can start a campfire with damp wood using nothing but friction. (I’ve seen it.) Fire and volcanoes are in no way intrinsically linked, so associating fire exclusively with volcanoes is a poor argument. (As opposed to associating oceanic things with oceans.) So I reject your entire premise of that argument."
Thats exactly my point, nobody bats an eye at fire being something other than in a hot fiery area, but you try and say "ocean themes and powers" and you get narrow minded and go "well that only works underwater" Why would a fire cleric work, or a tempest cleric work or a twilight cleric work outside those conditions either if your trying to have a very narrow view of where this or that can work. "Forge domain?? whats the point when hes making weapons he can cast spells?? how limited!" Gotta ya know.. open your mind some to a concept
Life Domain overlap.
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I can understand not thinking that a Water/Ocean Domain Cleric is needed, as the Tempest Cleric is meant to cover storm, sky, and sea.
I would like a Winter Domain Cleric though.....
As for the other classes having water subclasses, there was a UA Sea Sorcerer though it never made it to publication. I feel like having a Sorcerer influenced by the Elemental Plane of Water or ancient sea creatures makes sense. Same with having a Sorcerer influenced by the Elemental Planes of Fire or Earth.
"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup."
Characters for Tenebris Sine Fine
RoughCoronet's Greater Wills
Yeah, we don't need to go back to the days of third edition where there were dozens of cleric domains for every conceivable type of deity imaginable, no matter how redundant it was.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I can see some potential Life Domain, and possible Nature Domain, overlap with Earth and Water Cleric archetypes. But to be fair, some of the current cleric Domains already have a bit of overlap, it's an inevitability when you have a subclass system like what D&D 5E is doing. The elements of Earth and Water are associated with life and nurturing, hence why I mentioned potential overlap with the Nature domain, but at the same time, they have so much more to them. Fire and Water have overlapping aspects associated with them, I'm serious, while water has a "cleansing" aspect to it, as you put it, fire has a purifying aspect to it, symbolic (and often literal) fire is said to have the power to burn away impurities, which is similar to cleansing water washing away impurities. The earth is a symbol of both physical and metaphorical strength and resilience, which works really well for the spiritual components of being Clerc (also, Clerics tend to be that way physically in most builds) so, in a sense, an Earth-themed Cleric just makes sense. Granted, quite a few people might see an earth-themed cleric archetype as a wannabe Fighter or Barbarian, especially if a lot of the archetype's features center around strength and durability (or as I like to call it, the lazy way). Grave Clerics have a bunch of interesting abilities, and if it were not for the lack of earth-themed spells for Clerics (and in general) I would even make an argument for them being an Earth-themed Cleric.
In short, you never know how amazing, or similar, something is until you take a closer look, and maybe experience a bit of it for yourself.
Which makes it easy to reskin something. Take the Life Domain, pick spells you associate with water to prepare - hey presto, Water cleric.
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