Do you believe Mechanus as a whole is a place that is cool or stupid? Boring or interesting? Relaxing or cringe?
I'll admit I don't know a lot about it.. but, in concept it's pretty cool. It kinda reminds me of the second Alice in Wonderland thing with all the little robots that self govern and stuff. Plus AI are pretty scary by themselves so there's a lot to work with there. Along with the ability to like use robots as plot devices and excuses to homebrew big mechanical robot animals or insane machines. Lawful neutral is always fun to play, and I like the way they did it, but personally I think it would be cooler if the modrons were scaled to me stronger. Like how devil types range pretty well across the CR, modrons are typically just super weak (at least in my opinion but I could be wrong lmao)
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— δ cyno • he/him • number one paladin fanδ — making a smoothie for meta ——————| EXTENDED SIG |—————— Φ • redpelt’s biggest fan :) DM, minmaxer, microbiology student, and lover of anything colored red • Φ
Not even casting comprehend languages can allow you to speak with a modron, as the only thing it does is allow you to comprehend what you hear and read, not speak and write in any language you want. It's also against the RAW for a player to choose Modron as a language for their character. And even if it was allowed, who in their right mind would pick such a ridiculously niche language that would most likely never be of use in any given campaign? So for the vast majority of the time, it's impossible for player characters to converse with a modron.
I curious to the source of this. Because in Planescape, a character could certainly learn Modron; but it took 2 language slots to do so because of complexity.
However the sanity in doing so is probably dead on; you really really had to want to, as the conversation below pentadrone would be...unhelpful.
Do you believe Mechanus as a whole is a place that is cool or stupid? Boring or interesting? Relaxing or cringe?
I'll admit I don't know a lot about it.. but, in concept it's pretty cool. It kinda reminds me of the second Alice in Wonderland thing with all the little robots that self govern and stuff. Plus AI are pretty scary by themselves so there's a lot to work with there. Along with the ability to like use robots as plot devices and excuses to homebrew big mechanical robot animals or insane machines. Lawful neutral is always fun to play, and I like the way they did it, but personally I think it would be cooler if the modrons were scaled to me stronger. Like how devil types range pretty well across the CR, modrons are typically just super weak (at least in my opinion but I could be wrong lmao)
You should see the modron hierarchy in previous editions. They get pretty challenging, and the MM II art in 2e was terrifying.
Encounters do not have to be violent, either…if you rationalize that conflict will only perpetuate further chaos for them, you can talk them down & maybe even have a conversation with them.
You have to consider the fact that they only speak Modron and that no other creatures naturally speak it outside of those that specifically know All languages. Creatures that can speak telepathically can go around it, but it's rare for player characters to have access to such an ability. Not even casting comprehend languages can allow you to speak with a modron, as the only thing it does is allow you to comprehend what you hear and read, not speak and write in any language you want. It's also against the RAW for a player to choose Modron as a language for their character. And even if it was allowed, who in their right mind would pick such a ridiculously niche language that would most likely never be of use in any given campaign? So for the vast majority of the time, it's impossible for player characters to converse with a modron.
I’ll go ahead and tack on the Eloquence Bard’s “Universal Speech” feature to that list of niche communication features.
I curious to the source of this. Because in Planescape, a character could certainly learn Modron; but it took 2 language slots to do so because of complexity.
Go to the character builder and try to give the Modron language to your character. You'll notice that many languages are missing from the list of options, including Modron. This is because only the languages listed in the PHB and other sources that give additional options may be selected. So unless a new book adding Modron as a language for player characters is released, player characters may not learn it.
I’ll go ahead and tack on the Eloquence Bard’s “Universal Speech” feature to that list of niche communication features. Those blokes make great inter-planar envoys.
It still won't allow you to understand what the modron says, but that can be fixed by casting comprehend languages.
Funnily enough; one of my players in an upcoming campaign of mine is a follower of Hoar, the God of Poetic Justice & Retribution.
As vague as Mechanus is with the details, what has been an accurate characteristic is that Hoar has a location known as the Doom Court that has existed on that plane (being a hub of law & law enforcement).
Not exactly modro-related…but it’s a viable reason to visit Mechanus. Perhaps a party might have a score to settle, and seeks to beseech a deity of law.
Another hook would be the Primarch of Mechanus himself…itself?
Primarch once served as judge, overseeing the judgement of Asmodeus when Mt. Celestia accused him of villainy. On matters of cosmic importance (which is the sort of thing a high-stakes campaign might lead to), the Primarch makes for an interesting figure to incorporate, since he is seen as an utterly impartial, neutral figure of law & order.
And even if it was allowed, who in their right mind would pick such a ridiculously niche language that would most likely never be of use in any given campaign?
I have a character who knows Sphinx because it makes sense for his backstory
Pure utility is not the only reason to pick a language. [REDACTED]
Notes: Users should be civil and respectful in their conduct
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Do you believe Mechanus as a whole is a place that is cool or stupid? Boring or interesting? Relaxing or cringe?
I've tried to get into it, I really have, but I just can't. It always just turns into "Robots in D&D!" I get that they represent the ultimate lawful alignment, but they can't think any other way, so there's no dramatic tension there. I think super-lawful characters are much more interesting when they've chosen to be that way and are aware of the ongoing moral implications and consequences of that choice.
I dunno, fighting them is no different than fighting a force of nature. They are intentionally set up that way. And I'm just way more interested in using more... natural forces of nature.
Funnily enough; one of my players in an upcoming campaign of mine is a follower of Hoar, the God of Poetic Justice & Retribution.
As vague as Mechanus is with the details, what has been an accurate characteristic is that Hoar has a location known as the Doom Court that has existed on that plane (being a hub of law & law enforcement).
Not exactly modro-related…but it’s a viable reason to visit Mechanus. Perhaps a party might have a score to settle, and seeks to beseech a deity of law.
Another hook would be the Primarch of Mechanus himself…itself?
Primarch once served as judge, overseeing the judgement of Asmodeus when Mt. Celestia accused him of villainy. On matters of cosmic importance (which is the sort of thing a high-stakes campaign might lead to), the Primarch makes for an interesting figure to incorporate, since he is seen as an utterly impartial, neutral figure of law & order.
I heard from this video that order doesn't understand chaos, at least absolute order, so judging chaos wouldn't be fair judgement
I dunno, fighting them is no different than fighting a force of nature. They are intentionally set up that way. And I'm just way more interested in using more... natural forces of nature.
More natural forces? Can you elaborate? What makes modrons and mechanus any less natural than the other planes if they as a whole represent absolute order?
I dunno, fighting them is no different than fighting a force of nature. They are intentionally set up that way. And I'm just way more interested in using more... natural forces of nature.
More natural forces? Can you elaborate? What makes modrons and mechanus any less natural than the other planes if they as a whole represent absolute order?
Encounters do not have to be violent, either…if you rationalize that conflict will only perpetuate further chaos for them, you can talk them down & maybe even have a conversation with them.
You have to consider the fact that they only speak Modron and that no other creatures naturally speak it outside of those that specifically know All languages. Creatures that can speak telepathically can go around it, but it's rare for player characters to have access to such an ability. Not even casting comprehend languages can allow you to speak with a modron, as the only thing it does is allow you to comprehend what you hear and read, not speak and write in any language you want. It's also against the RAW for a player to choose Modron as a language for their character. And even if it was allowed, who in their right mind would pick such a ridiculously niche language that would most likely never be of use in any given campaign? So for the vast majority of the time, it's impossible for player characters to converse with a modron.
Although, if the interactions between modrons and other creatures occur on their home plane of Mechanus, then no language barrier would exist (magical assistance or not). Previous editions (since I don't recall if 5E specifies the fact) stated that all creatures can understand and be understood by any other creatures while on Mechanus, since the plane itself prevents confusion and/or chaos from not being able to communicate. I believe the official material said that each individual would understand spoken and written words as if they were in a language that they would normally know (such as common).
I curious to the source of this. Because in Planescape, a character could certainly learn Modron; but it took 2 language slots to do so because of complexity.
Go to the character builder and try to give the Modron language to your character. You'll notice that many languages are missing from the list of options, including Modron. This is because only the languages listed in the PHB and other sources that give additional options may be selected. So unless a new book adding Modron as a language for player characters is released, player characters may not learn it.
And, having said the part above, I would agree that trying to speak with a modron outside of Mechanus would be difficult at best. Yes, a tongues spell would be the easiest way to deal with the scenerio, especially if such magic were available to the character. Learning the language would still be a possibility as well, although D&DB doesn't seem to support this option without homebrewing some sort of feat/add-on to give the language to a character.
Do you believe Mechanus as a whole is a place that is cool or stupid? Boring or interesting? Relaxing or cringe?
I've tried to get into it, I really have, but I just can't. It always just turns into "Robots in D&D!" I get that they represent the ultimate lawful alignment, but they can't think any other way, so there's no dramatic tension there. I think super-lawful characters are much more interesting when they've chosen to be that way and are aware of the ongoing moral implications and consequences of that choice.
Modrons aren't my favorite extraplanar entities in the D&D multiverse, but I've personally enjoyed using them as something different than the more standard fiends and celestials. As far as the "robot" concept goes, I've always looked at them being similar to the Borg from Star Trek (just minus the assimilation aspect). They’re creatures made up of both flesh and metal, so more cyborg than just a robot. And the lowest castes of the modron hierarchy are much more drone than director, which changes the higher up you go.
I curious to the source of this. Because in Planescape, a character could certainly learn Modron; but it took 2 language slots to do so because of complexity.
Go to the character builder and try to give the Modron language to your character. You'll notice that many languages are missing from the list of options, including Modron. This is because only the languages listed in the PHB and other sources that give additional options may be selected. So unless a new book adding Modron as a language for player characters is released, player characters may not learn it.
And, having said the part above, I would agree that trying to speak with a modron outside of Mechanus would be difficult at best. Yes, a tongues spell would be the easiest way to deal with the scenerio, especially if such magic were available to the character. Learning the language would still be a possibility as well, although D&DB doesn't seem to support this option without homebrewing some sort of feat/add-on to give the language to a character.
I diagree with how you arrived at your conclusion; that the character builder is the definition of the rule. Especially since, you absolutely can add Modron to a character sheet. Go to the sheet, and click on proficiency and languages gear icon. From there, you can add new custom language. I've done this for Planar Cant, and custom FR languages listed in SCAG. Completely valid.
The whole reason that is there, is so that players can choose other languages as allowed by the DM. And that is covered on the second paragraph of the link you cited The tool isn't the aribiter here, the DM is. A more common(?) example is gnoll. Its a language, but most players wouldn't be able to learn it, but can if the DM allows. Sage advice specifically says "The Player’s Handbook language tables don’t list every language in the D&D multiverse. The Monster Manual mentions other languages, including Gnoll, Modron, Sahuagin, and Slaad."
A more refined rule is in Tasha's: https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/tcoe/character-options#Languages, which basically says the DM can add or REMOVE languages that are appropriate for the campaign. By that rule, just because you can pick elvish in the tool, doesn't mean its a valid choice for the campaign.
But here is no rule that says these languages are unlearnable. At best it would be fair to say a level 1 character normally would not know Modron...unless you are doing a Planar campaign. Or perhaps your Sage background is about the planes, and you did pick it up. Again, a DM's call...not a tool one.
Finally Is it useful? Probably not, but players never get to use many languages like primordial or celestial either. Character flavor is rarely about everything has a purpose in game.
Do you mean less natural as abiotic? Because if the modrons and mechanus are a natural part of the multiverse, then what makes something natural wouldn't depend on if it's biotic or abiotic but be based on the connection it has to the multiverse.
Well, this thread has got me thinking and I might have to introduce an NPC into my campaign, a Warfoged Warlock (EDIT: with Primus or some such individual as a patron), probably porting over the Sorcerer Clockwork Soul abilities in place of the published Warlock subclasses and then give him Pact of Chain and a Modron as a Familiar, although a Fmailiar with truesight 120ft might be a little OTT. If it works mechanically (excuse the pun) then it might be an interesting player option for the future.
I'll admit I don't know a lot about it.. but, in concept it's pretty cool. It kinda reminds me of the second Alice in Wonderland thing with all the little robots that self govern and stuff. Plus AI are pretty scary by themselves so there's a lot to work with there. Along with the ability to like use robots as plot devices and excuses to homebrew big mechanical robot animals or insane machines. Lawful neutral is always fun to play, and I like the way they did it, but personally I think it would be cooler if the modrons were scaled to me stronger. Like how devil types range pretty well across the CR, modrons are typically just super weak (at least in my opinion but I could be wrong lmao)
— δ cyno • he/him • number one paladin fan δ —
making a smoothie for meta
——————| EXTENDED SIG |——————
Φ • redpelt’s biggest fan :) DM, minmaxer, microbiology student, and lover of anything colored red • Φ
However the sanity in doing so is probably dead on; you really really had to want to, as the conversation below pentadrone would be...unhelpful.
You should see the modron hierarchy in previous editions. They get pretty challenging, and the MM II art in 2e was terrifying.
I have a weird sense of humor.
I also make maps.(That's a link)
I’ll go ahead and tack on the Eloquence Bard’s “Universal Speech” feature to that list of niche communication features.
Those blokes make great inter-planar envoys.
Go to the character builder and try to give the Modron language to your character. You'll notice that many languages are missing from the list of options, including Modron. This is because only the languages listed in the PHB and other sources that give additional options may be selected. So unless a new book adding Modron as a language for player characters is released, player characters may not learn it.
It still won't allow you to understand what the modron says, but that can be fixed by casting comprehend languages.
Age: 33 | Sex: Male | Languages: French and English | Roles: DM and Player
Tongues exists.
It's really cool, but I don't want an entire adventure to take place there. A chapter in an adventure would be great though.
: p
Funnily enough; one of my players in an upcoming campaign of mine is a follower of Hoar, the God of Poetic Justice & Retribution.
As vague as Mechanus is with the details, what has been an accurate characteristic is that Hoar has a location known as the Doom Court that has existed on that plane (being a hub of law & law enforcement).
Not exactly modro-related…but it’s a viable reason to visit Mechanus. Perhaps a party might have a score to settle, and seeks to beseech a deity of law.
Another hook would be the Primarch of Mechanus himself…itself?
Primarch once served as judge, overseeing the judgement of Asmodeus when Mt. Celestia accused him of villainy. On matters of cosmic importance (which is the sort of thing a high-stakes campaign might lead to), the Primarch makes for an interesting figure to incorporate, since he is seen as an utterly impartial, neutral figure of law & order.
I have a character who knows Sphinx because it makes sense for his backstory
Pure utility is not the only reason to pick a language. [REDACTED]
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I've tried to get into it, I really have, but I just can't. It always just turns into "Robots in D&D!" I get that they represent the ultimate lawful alignment, but they can't think any other way, so there's no dramatic tension there. I think super-lawful characters are much more interesting when they've chosen to be that way and are aware of the ongoing moral implications and consequences of that choice.
I dunno, fighting them is no different than fighting a force of nature. They are intentionally set up that way. And I'm just way more interested in using more... natural forces of nature.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
I heard from this video that order doesn't understand chaos, at least absolute order, so judging chaos wouldn't be fair judgement
More natural forces? Can you elaborate? What makes modrons and mechanus any less natural than the other planes if they as a whole represent absolute order?
Beep boop?
I like the concept of Mechanus, and how it's made to look like all gears and some steampunk influence.
Modrons, nope. With their appearance, I just can't take them seriously.
Although, if the interactions between modrons and other creatures occur on their home plane of Mechanus, then no language barrier would exist (magical assistance or not). Previous editions (since I don't recall if 5E specifies the fact) stated that all creatures can understand and be understood by any other creatures while on Mechanus, since the plane itself prevents confusion and/or chaos from not being able to communicate. I believe the official material said that each individual would understand spoken and written words as if they were in a language that they would normally know (such as common).
And, having said the part above, I would agree that trying to speak with a modron outside of Mechanus would be difficult at best. Yes, a tongues spell would be the easiest way to deal with the scenerio, especially if such magic were available to the character. Learning the language would still be a possibility as well, although D&DB doesn't seem to support this option without homebrewing some sort of feat/add-on to give the language to a character.
Modrons aren't my favorite extraplanar entities in the D&D multiverse, but I've personally enjoyed using them as something different than the more standard fiends and celestials. As far as the "robot" concept goes, I've always looked at them being similar to the Borg from Star Trek (just minus the assimilation aspect). They’re creatures made up of both flesh and metal, so more cyborg than just a robot. And the lowest castes of the modron hierarchy are much more drone than director, which changes the higher up you go.
I diagree with how you arrived at your conclusion; that the character builder is the definition of the rule. Especially since, you absolutely can add Modron to a character sheet. Go to the sheet, and click on proficiency and languages gear icon. From there, you can add new custom language. I've done this for Planar Cant, and custom FR languages listed in SCAG. Completely valid.
The whole reason that is there, is so that players can choose other languages as allowed by the DM. And that is covered on the second paragraph of the link you cited The tool isn't the aribiter here, the DM is. A more common(?) example is gnoll. Its a language, but most players wouldn't be able to learn it, but can if the DM allows. Sage advice specifically says "The Player’s Handbook language tables don’t list every language in the D&D multiverse. The Monster Manual mentions other languages, including Gnoll, Modron, Sahuagin, and Slaad."
A more refined rule is in Tasha's: https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/tcoe/character-options#Languages, which basically says the DM can add or REMOVE languages that are appropriate for the campaign. By that rule, just because you can pick elvish in the tool, doesn't mean its a valid choice for the campaign.
But here is no rule that says these languages are unlearnable. At best it would be fair to say a level 1 character normally would not know Modron...unless you are doing a Planar campaign. Or perhaps your Sage background is about the planes, and you did pick it up. Again, a DM's call...not a tool one.
Finally Is it useful? Probably not, but players never get to use many languages like primordial or celestial either. Character flavor is rarely about everything has a purpose in game.
Do you mean less natural as abiotic? Because if the modrons and mechanus are a natural part of the multiverse, then what makes something natural wouldn't depend on if it's biotic or abiotic but be based on the connection it has to the multiverse.
Well, this thread has got me thinking and I might have to introduce an NPC into my campaign, a Warfoged Warlock (EDIT: with Primus or some such individual as a patron), probably porting over the Sorcerer Clockwork Soul abilities in place of the published Warlock subclasses and then give him Pact of Chain and a Modron as a Familiar, although a Fmailiar with truesight 120ft might be a little OTT. If it works mechanically (excuse the pun) then it might be an interesting player option for the future.