For 3 non-downloadable .pdfs that you can't have access to offline?
Get the app. Offline use. Bang.
Uh...yeah. I do. And it's gotten substantially better. But I wouldn't call it conducive to the kind of work one usually wants to do with markup and such on owned .pdfs
Then I guess this bundle isn't right for you. :(
Real question: What's the value in this kind of snark? Is it a realistic expectation that I should HAVE to use the app to get the full experience of what is, essentially, a searchable .pdf that's archived and gated by DRM? I love DnD Beyond. I understand that I'm a customer agreeing to those terms, but...that doesn't mean it's unreasonable to complain about the model or how distinctly unfriendly it is to the consumer, right?
The bundle's not "right" for me?
Who, precisely, is it *right* for, then? What specific consumer is getting value from this price in this specific format? Spelljammer was 192 pages, Krynn was 224, and now this -- there are PLENTY of official books for 5e (both source and adventure) that outpace this page count and came in at the 29.99 price point. So, again, I understand the increase for physical production. Goods increase in cost over time; overhead is a thing. Whether I think it's fair based on what I know about the industry is another question...but I digress.
That all said, can someone point out to me precisely where those or other factors I'm unaware would equate to a cost increase of the digital asset which should have no increase in overhead costs other than actually paying the labor? Which I'd be 100% cool with, but see absolutely no signs of in this new pricing model. Feel free to point out someone to me at WotC or Hasbro who isn't in the c-suite who is directly benefiting from this wild increase, though, and I'll happily stop complaining.
Any revenue sharing agreements WotC trotted out last year or two I'm unaware of?
I remember there was an early-buy-in discount for Spelljammer on DDB. I think it was $10 off - but I definitely remember there was an early bird discount. I had the dilemma of whether to go for that or buy physical.
As for 3 digital books...please. I'm not arguing as to whether Planescape is good value or not, but it being organised three electronic books instead of one does not confer higher value. It will be 256 pages (1x64, 2x96), which is the size of a normal release.
It's being charged at the same pricing point as Spelljammer, most likely because it's following the same format and they're relying on nostalgia and collector's edition style to drive sales. The good thing is that it's a third longer than Spelljammer.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
There ya go. It was initially sold for preorder at $39.99. it went up later to $49.99 for release.
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Real question: What's the value in this kind of snark? Is it a realistic expectation that I should HAVE to use the app to get the full experience of what is, essentially, a searchable .pdf that's archived and gated by DRM? I love DnD Beyond. I understand that I'm a customer agreeing to those terms, but...that doesn't mean it's unreasonable to complain about the model or how distinctly unfriendly it is to the consumer, right?
The bundle's not "right" for me?
Who, precisely, is it *right* for, then? What specific consumer is getting value from this price in this specific format? Spelljammer was 192 pages, Krynn was 224, and now this -- there are PLENTY of official books for 5e (both source and adventure) that outpace this page count and came in at the 29.99 price point. So, again, I understand the increase for physical production. Goods increase in cost over time; overhead is a thing. Whether I think it's fair based on what I know about the industry is another question...but I digress.
That all said, can someone point out to me precisely where those or other factors I'm unaware would equate to a cost increase of the digital asset which should have no increase in overhead costs other than actually paying the labor? Which I'd be 100% cool with, but see absolutely no signs of in this new pricing model. Feel free to point out someone to me at WotC or Hasbro who isn't in the c-suite who is directly benefiting from this wild increase, though, and I'll happily stop complaining.
Any revenue sharing agreements WotC trotted out last year or two I'm unaware of?
There is no snark. I am giving low-effort responses, sure, but so were you. A quick forum search shows that when Spelljammer was released, people were complaining about the $50 price tag too. You looking at your receipts does not account for any promos or discounts that were offered at the time. The base price, before any such things, was $50. The price for this kind of release is consistent with the previous one.
The 'right' customer is the kind that pays, as far as any for-profit company is concerned. The goal for any business is to maximize profits, not have the most customers. If you are unwilling to pay, you are not the targeted consumer. No need to take that personally.
I don't know. The Spelljammer "boxed" set all three books combined has a page count of 192 pages. Yes it comes with a screen, but DDB hasn't really developed a "digitally enhanced edition" of screens in any substantial way, and a couple of poster maps, which DDB will reproduce but for me at least lacks the poster experience. By Comparison, WotC put out a world, character options and adventure book in the form of the Dragonlance: Shadow of the Dragon Queen, that comes in at 224 pages (it also introduced the idea of background feats and feat progressions ... compared to Spelljammer's cliff notes on Spelljamming). I think people feeling ripped off by purchasing less content for 40% more $ is understandable. Since "physical analog" being represented here in the price is a slip case and three bindings that are literally immaterial to its use on DDB.
I think the boxed sets do challenge DDB's business model. Content-wise, you're getting "a book." I feel the honest thing to do is to let people buy "a book" to serve as their primary text or as a digital supplement for those who wanted to buy the prestige physical format of having "that book" split into three bindings and put in a slip case. But for now, they're married to some relationship with MSRP of the physical book.
I do understand there's supposedly more meat to the Planescape book, but I've been buying physical books and adapting them via hombrew as I've need them for at least over a year now.
Date doesn't track with any promotion that I'm aware of. I assume it does include my bundle discount, which doesn't equate to $16 dollars. And may include any digital promotion they were doing for Spelljammer.
The point was, though, that I'm 100% certain I didn't pay 49.99 for it. And as far as I'm aware, I wasn't eligible for any promotion and there was no sale (...as I said, outside of my bundle discount).
Looking at news articles and forum posts at the time, the price was $49.99 from the start but during a "DDB Spring Sale" had a $10 pre-order discount, so that is likely what your price was from (and there's plenty of other links verifying those prices, those two just popped to the top of my search). If people don't think that's worth the price that's perfectly understandable. I just want to point out the incorrect claims that this is a new price increase with Planescape or that WotC's May 2023 statement was somehow misleading when Planescape is the exact same price as Spelljammer was a year ago.
I don't know. The Spelljammer "boxed" set all three books combined has a page count of 192 pages. Yes it comes with a screen, but DDB hasn't really developed a "digitally enhanced edition" of screens in any substantial way, and a couple of poster maps, which DDB will reproduce but for me at least lacks the poster experience. By Comparison, WotC put out a world, character options and adventure book in the form of the Dragonlance: Shadow of the Dragon Queen, that comes in at 224 pages (it also introduced the idea of background feats and feat progressions ... compared to Spelljammer's cliff notes on Spelljamming). I think people feeling ripped off by purchasing less content for 40% more $ is understandable. Since "physical analog" being represented here in the price is a slip case and three bindings that are literally immaterial to its use on DDB.
I think the boxed sets do challenge DDB's business model. Content-wise, you're getting "a book." I feel the honest thing to do is to let people buy "a book" to serve as their primary text or as a digital supplement for those who wanted to buy the prestige physical format of having "that book" split into three bindings and put in a slip case. But for now, they're married to some relationship with MSRP of the physical book.
I do understand there's supposedly more meat to the Planescape book, but I've been buying physical books and adapting them via hombrew as I've need them for at least over a year now.
Date doesn't track with any promotion that I'm aware of. I assume it does include my bundle discount, which doesn't equate to $16 dollars. And may include any digital promotion they were doing for Spelljammer.
The point was, though, that I'm 100% certain I didn't pay 49.99 for it. And as far as I'm aware, I wasn't eligible for any promotion and there was no sale (...as I said, outside of my bundle discount).
Looking at news articles and forum posts at the time, the price was $49.99 from the start but during a "DDB Spring Sale" had a $10 pre-order discount, so that is likely what your price was from (and there's plenty of other links verifying those prices, those two just popped to the top of my search). If people don't think that's worth the price (although Planescape does have a higher page count than Spelljammer, at least, but I can also understand the deep disappointment with Spelljammer), that's perfectly understandable. I just want to point out the incorrect claims that this is a new price increase with Planescape or that WotC's May 2023 statement was somehow misleading when Planescape is the exact same price as Spelljammer was a year ago.
To be clear: I wasn't being antagonistic. I was just pointing out, that wasn't the price I paid. I did search for Spelljammer discounts...didn't read the pre-order discount announcement. I'm sure I did pre-order. That said, I wasn't aware any discounts could stack, either. I don't ever remember being able to stack my bundle discount with a sale discount, but I could also be wrong about that.
Either way, I'm not just being pissy or angsty. I'm genuinely puzzled why anyone thinks this kind of price increase for the digital asset would be defensible or reasonable. That was the core point, and I'm surprised folks would defend it? I understand there are some nuanced takes here, but if the general line is "Hey, prices go up...you pay or you don't." -- sure. Great. Fantastic. Stupendous.
...but let's be realistic? Absolutely no one has offered any kind of real defense of the new pricing model anyway?
End of the day, it’s their business and their choice. If you don’t like it vote with your wallet and don’t buy, but this is a disposable income product. If it sells well enough to prove there is sufficient demand for it at this price, common business sense says it’s the right price to sell at. Otherwise we’ll see what happens; maybe prices go down, maybe they try to improve the quality, maybe we just have to live with it. They don’t really answer to us outside of the dynamic of supply and demand.
Either way, I'm not just being pissy or angsty. I'm genuinely puzzled why anyone thinks this kind of price increase for the digital asset would be defensible or reasonable. That was the core point, and I'm surprised folks would defend it? I understand there are some nuanced takes here, but if the general line is "Hey, prices go up...you pay or you don't." -- sure. Great. Fantastic. Stupendous.
...but let's be realistic? Absolutely no one has offered any kind of real defense of the new pricing model anyway?
People generally understand that this is a business selling entertainment. WotC has chosen a price point that makes sense to them to maximize the profits of the product they sell. Someone pointed out almost immediately that the price was chosen because that is the price that people will pay and they were absolutely correct. I buy luxury items because I will be entertained by them and/or they are convenient. I am not just getting a pdf, I am getting a digital toolset, i.e. convenience, with that entertainment. A double win for me. If you do not think this is worth it, speak with the wallet. Maybe your protest will result in lower prices eventually. That would be a triple win for me so I wish you all the luck with absolute sincerity.
I can blow 50 bucks easy just getting dinner for 2 at a restaurant one step above a fast food joint. Inflation is a thing, and today's $50 is yesterday's $30. Not a fan of Hasbro greed, but the authors gotta get paid somehow. Split between our group of 5, it's just $10 each for content we all share.
If it's too much for you, not buying it is going to make a much louder statement than anything you can do here.
256 pages for $50 VS 320 pages (Eberron: Rising from the Last War) for $30, yep, seems perfectly fair to me.
Ebberon was in 2019. I think we are in a very different world now. I can't think of a single thing that is remotely the same price as it was in 2019. I got a haircut for the first time in years last month. Almost asked them to paste it back onto my head for how much they said I had to pay.
I have an ongoing war against Amazon in which I absolutely refuse to pay more for a kindle book than the printed version costs. Simply put, I expect them to reward me for saving them the trouble of printing and shipping a physical product.
Obviously, Amazon are entirely unaware that this furious assault is taking place, and I imagine WOTC will be quite similar.
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Expect another Spelljammer situation here. Another threadbare, half baked add on, little more than "come up with your own rules and lore, so you can have it your way!", just capitalising on the name recognition with a low-effort product. I keep coming back here, hoping to see DnD changing for the positive, but it's just continuing down this rabbit hole of greedy nonsense. I'll stick to PF2 for now, I guess, at least until Tales of the Valiant gets released.
Expect another Spelljammer situation here. Another threadbare, half baked add on, little more than "come up with your own rules and lore, so you can have it your way!", just capitalising on the name recognition with a low-effort product. I keep coming back here, hoping to see DnD changing for the positive, but it's just continuing down this rabbit hole of greedy nonsense. I'll stick to PF2 for now, I guess, at least until Tales of the Valiant gets released.
Expecting failure is probably a bit excessive - there are sufficient causes for optimism. Most notably, the product length is a significant increase on Spelljammer and there has been sufficient time for Wizards to review the negative feedback on Spelljammer and adjust Planescape accordingly.
What you have posted is a good reason to avoid preordering the product—if one was disappointed in Spelljammer, the similar layout of Planescape is a yellow flag and a sign to await greater feedback before purchase. But saying one should “expect” more of the same, when there exists tangible evidence this product will be longer, and thus extremely likely to be more full of content than Spelljammer? That seems a bit hyperbolic and unsupported by the present evidence.
Expecting failure is probably a bit excessive - there are sufficient causes for optimism. Most notably, the product length is a significant increase on Spelljammer and there has been sufficient time for Wizards to review the negative feedback on Spelljammer and adjust Planescape accordingly.
To be fair, even with the page count increase, Planescape is still awfully short at 256 pages; most books are at least 300+ pages. I am sure the book will do fine. I still like S:AIS overall, but I am still disappointed and not satisfied with it, and I imagine I will feel the same way about Planescape.
Not to seem retaliatory, because it's not my intention, but what "Tangible evidence" are you referring to? The page count being higher is certainly no proof of quality, and the idea that WotC has had time to "learn its lesson" is pure speculation. Speculation that favours the idea of a corporate entity making decisions that benefit the consumer that have not been proven to benefit the company. Spelljammer was controversial, but did it perform poorly in sales? If not, what motivation would they have to change. I don't expect Planescape to fail financially, God knows plenty of people will buy it, but I don't think it's hyperbolic to expect the ongoing drop in quality we've been seeing from WotC to continue. I hope I'm wrong, obviously, I don't want people to be ripped off, or for low standards to become the norm. I just don't have the enthusiasm to wait on tenterhooks or give it the benefit of the doubt.
There's literally no reason you need to wait on tenterhooks or give it the benefit of the doubt. What you think about a product that has yet to release, is meaningless. You shouldn't be pre ordering even if you have all the faith in the world. Wait for release, wait for reviews. Always.
Reading through the discussion so far, there are a lot of points I want to make, respond to, and second or emphasize the importance of. Feel free to skip around or just ignore some or all of the stuff in this TedTalk.
1) The bundle format with 3 books and a DM screen is honestly quite annoying for me. I don't buy digital, but that Dungeon Master's screen won't come if you get the product on D&D Beyond. All you're really getting is 256 pages of content here. That's smaller than all of the core rulebooks, but bigger than Tasha's and Xanathar's at least. So honestly, it does feel like a price hike - at least for the digital version - because it is.
Digitally speaking, the fact that one book's content is divided into three books and sold as one ultimately doesn't really change anything.
2) As Choir adeptly pointed out, the reason that this is more expensive is because Wizards of the Coast expects that enough customers will buy the book - even with significantly increased prices - for them to make a larger profit off it. To be brutally honest, this is just how businesses function and it's normal and to be expected with mega-corporations. Wotzy does have to make money from D&D; Because otherwise there's little reason for them to keep funneling tons of resources into making new editions, books, and even movies if those things stop being beneficial for them. Hasbro, and Wizards as a result, wants to continue being a successful company and making money for their shareholders.
3) The final point I would like to stress is that - for your typical everyday customer who doesn't have tons of disposable revenue or doesn't need to run and review Planescape immediately -preordering is likely a terrible idea. If you really read this and choose to do so, please at least don't be one of those people who comes back here and starts raging about avoidable mistakes.
I would recommend reading reviews, talking to friends, and learning the general gist of how good people think Planescape is before you buy it. Obviously, not preordering doesn't stop you from never purchasing something you didn't want to. While no method is flawless, this one will at least help in making an informed decision. After all, if you wait and come to the conclusion that ya don't want something, you can just not purchase it. With the Basic Rules and stuff, Dungeons and Dragons can be played for completely free.
--
Yikes. That was way longer than I expected. There goes the prospect of getting enough sleep tonight.
Expecting failure is probably a bit excessive - there are sufficient causes for optimism. Most notably, the product length is a significant increase on Spelljammer and there has been sufficient time for Wizards to review the negative feedback on Spelljammer and adjust Planescape accordingly.
To be fair, even with the page count increase, Planescape is still awfully short at 256 pages; most books are at least 300+ pages. I am sure the book will do fine. I still like S:AIS overall, but I am still disappointed and not satisfied with it, and I imagine I will feel the same way about Planescape.
I’ll be honest, I do not see 256 pages as all that short - it is longer than most adventures are. And, unlike adventures, which are mostly story content I have no intention of using, about 2/3rds of this book will be dedicated to lore or character options. That alone makes these products worth it to me - always happy to have new monsters, backgrounds, feats, items, etc. to use in my homebrew game, and I would much rather buy a 256 page book with a wide selection of those plus dedicated lore sections than an adventure which might have a handful of new monsters, a background tor two, and some lore hidden inside a story I have no interest in.
Plus, due to the triple binding nature of these products, I have no expectations they’ll be the length of a single-bound product. That just is not really how storage space on a bookstore shelf works—bookstores do not want a full size volume with three thick hardcovers in between.
So, given the necessity of a shorter book overall, I am happy to see it at least on par with an Adventure in length. An Adventure-length product with a higher density of content I actually want is more than sufficient to whet my interest.
And, frankly, all the things folks complain that Spelljammer was missing? Recall, each Spelljammer book was 64 pages - this book is a full Spelljammer book bigger. That is a massive increase in size—and, had Spelljammer had an entire fourth book dedicated to “piloting and traversing Wildspace, and rules of Wildspace” pretty much every complaint about it would have been solved.
They really need to make it so you buy the physical book for one price then get a code for free digital content. I'd pay $50 if I got both, but the value is just too low otherwise so I buy neither
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Real question: What's the value in this kind of snark? Is it a realistic expectation that I should HAVE to use the app to get the full experience of what is, essentially, a searchable .pdf that's archived and gated by DRM? I love DnD Beyond. I understand that I'm a customer agreeing to those terms, but...that doesn't mean it's unreasonable to complain about the model or how distinctly unfriendly it is to the consumer, right?
The bundle's not "right" for me?
Who, precisely, is it *right* for, then? What specific consumer is getting value from this price in this specific format? Spelljammer was 192 pages, Krynn was 224, and now this -- there are PLENTY of official books for 5e (both source and adventure) that outpace this page count and came in at the 29.99 price point. So, again, I understand the increase for physical production. Goods increase in cost over time; overhead is a thing. Whether I think it's fair based on what I know about the industry is another question...but I digress.
That all said, can someone point out to me precisely where those or other factors I'm unaware would equate to a cost increase of the digital asset which should have no increase in overhead costs other than actually paying the labor? Which I'd be 100% cool with, but see absolutely no signs of in this new pricing model. Feel free to point out someone to me at WotC or Hasbro who isn't in the c-suite who is directly benefiting from this wild increase, though, and I'll happily stop complaining.
Any revenue sharing agreements WotC trotted out last year or two I'm unaware of?
I remember there was an early-buy-in discount for Spelljammer on DDB. I think it was $10 off - but I definitely remember there was an early bird discount. I had the dilemma of whether to go for that or buy physical.
As for 3 digital books...please. I'm not arguing as to whether Planescape is good value or not, but it being organised three electronic books instead of one does not confer higher value. It will be 256 pages (1x64, 2x96), which is the size of a normal release.
It's being charged at the same pricing point as Spelljammer, most likely because it's following the same format and they're relying on nostalgia and collector's edition style to drive sales. The good thing is that it's a third longer than Spelljammer.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
https://www.dicebreaker.com/games/dungeons-and-dragons-5e/deal/dnd-beyond-2022-spring-sale#:~:text=Revealed during the 2022 D&D,RPG setting for Dungeons & Dragons.
There ya go. It was initially sold for preorder at $39.99. it went up later to $49.99 for release.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
There is no snark. I am giving low-effort responses, sure, but so were you. A quick forum search shows that when Spelljammer was released, people were complaining about the $50 price tag too. You looking at your receipts does not account for any promos or discounts that were offered at the time. The base price, before any such things, was $50. The price for this kind of release is consistent with the previous one.
The 'right' customer is the kind that pays, as far as any for-profit company is concerned. The goal for any business is to maximize profits, not have the most customers. If you are unwilling to pay, you are not the targeted consumer. No need to take that personally.
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Looking at news articles and forum posts at the time, the price was $49.99 from the start but during a "DDB Spring Sale" had a $10 pre-order discount, so that is likely what your price was from (and there's plenty of other links verifying those prices, those two just popped to the top of my search). If people don't think that's worth the price that's perfectly understandable. I just want to point out the incorrect claims that this is a new price increase with Planescape or that WotC's May 2023 statement was somehow misleading when Planescape is the exact same price as Spelljammer was a year ago.
Edited to add: Ninja'd by Linklike! :)
To be clear: I wasn't being antagonistic. I was just pointing out, that wasn't the price I paid. I did search for Spelljammer discounts...didn't read the pre-order discount announcement. I'm sure I did pre-order. That said, I wasn't aware any discounts could stack, either. I don't ever remember being able to stack my bundle discount with a sale discount, but I could also be wrong about that.
Either way, I'm not just being pissy or angsty. I'm genuinely puzzled why anyone thinks this kind of price increase for the digital asset would be defensible or reasonable. That was the core point, and I'm surprised folks would defend it? I understand there are some nuanced takes here, but if the general line is "Hey, prices go up...you pay or you don't." -- sure. Great. Fantastic. Stupendous.
...but let's be realistic? Absolutely no one has offered any kind of real defense of the new pricing model anyway?
End of the day, it’s their business and their choice. If you don’t like it vote with your wallet and don’t buy, but this is a disposable income product. If it sells well enough to prove there is sufficient demand for it at this price, common business sense says it’s the right price to sell at. Otherwise we’ll see what happens; maybe prices go down, maybe they try to improve the quality, maybe we just have to live with it. They don’t really answer to us outside of the dynamic of supply and demand.
People generally understand that this is a business selling entertainment. WotC has chosen a price point that makes sense to them to maximize the profits of the product they sell. Someone pointed out almost immediately that the price was chosen because that is the price that people will pay and they were absolutely correct. I buy luxury items because I will be entertained by them and/or they are convenient. I am not just getting a pdf, I am getting a digital toolset, i.e. convenience, with that entertainment. A double win for me. If you do not think this is worth it, speak with the wallet. Maybe your protest will result in lower prices eventually. That would be a triple win for me so I wish you all the luck with absolute sincerity.
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I can blow 50 bucks easy just getting dinner for 2 at a restaurant one step above a fast food joint. Inflation is a thing, and today's $50 is yesterday's $30. Not a fan of Hasbro greed, but the authors gotta get paid somehow. Split between our group of 5, it's just $10 each for content we all share.
If it's too much for you, not buying it is going to make a much louder statement than anything you can do here.
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256 pages for $50 VS 320 pages (Eberron: Rising from the Last War) for $30, yep, seems perfectly fair to me.
Ebberon was in 2019. I think we are in a very different world now. I can't think of a single thing that is remotely the same price as it was in 2019. I got a haircut for the first time in years last month. Almost asked them to paste it back onto my head for how much they said I had to pay.
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I have an ongoing war against Amazon in which I absolutely refuse to pay more for a kindle book than the printed version costs. Simply put, I expect them to reward me for saving them the trouble of printing and shipping a physical product.
Obviously, Amazon are entirely unaware that this furious assault is taking place, and I imagine WOTC will be quite similar.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Expect another Spelljammer situation here. Another threadbare, half baked add on, little more than "come up with your own rules and lore, so you can have it your way!", just capitalising on the name recognition with a low-effort product. I keep coming back here, hoping to see DnD changing for the positive, but it's just continuing down this rabbit hole of greedy nonsense. I'll stick to PF2 for now, I guess, at least until Tales of the Valiant gets released.
Expecting failure is probably a bit excessive - there are sufficient causes for optimism. Most notably, the product length is a significant increase on Spelljammer and there has been sufficient time for Wizards to review the negative feedback on Spelljammer and adjust Planescape accordingly.
What you have posted is a good reason to avoid preordering the product—if one was disappointed in Spelljammer, the similar layout of Planescape is a yellow flag and a sign to await greater feedback before purchase. But saying one should “expect” more of the same, when there exists tangible evidence this product will be longer, and thus extremely likely to be more full of content than Spelljammer? That seems a bit hyperbolic and unsupported by the present evidence.
To be fair, even with the page count increase, Planescape is still awfully short at 256 pages; most books are at least 300+ pages. I am sure the book will do fine. I still like S:AIS overall, but I am still disappointed and not satisfied with it, and I imagine I will feel the same way about Planescape.
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Not to seem retaliatory, because it's not my intention, but what "Tangible evidence" are you referring to? The page count being higher is certainly no proof of quality, and the idea that WotC has had time to "learn its lesson" is pure speculation. Speculation that favours the idea of a corporate entity making decisions that benefit the consumer that have not been proven to benefit the company. Spelljammer was controversial, but did it perform poorly in sales? If not, what motivation would they have to change. I don't expect Planescape to fail financially, God knows plenty of people will buy it, but I don't think it's hyperbolic to expect the ongoing drop in quality we've been seeing from WotC to continue. I hope I'm wrong, obviously, I don't want people to be ripped off, or for low standards to become the norm. I just don't have the enthusiasm to wait on tenterhooks or give it the benefit of the doubt.
There's literally no reason you need to wait on tenterhooks or give it the benefit of the doubt. What you think about a product that has yet to release, is meaningless. You shouldn't be pre ordering even if you have all the faith in the world. Wait for release, wait for reviews. Always.
Reading through the discussion so far, there are a lot of points I want to make, respond to, and second or emphasize the importance of. Feel free to skip around or just ignore some or all of the stuff in this TedTalk.
1) The bundle format with 3 books and a DM screen is honestly quite annoying for me. I don't buy digital, but that Dungeon Master's screen won't come if you get the product on D&D Beyond. All you're really getting is 256 pages of content here. That's smaller than all of the core rulebooks, but bigger than Tasha's and Xanathar's at least. So honestly, it does feel like a price hike - at least for the digital version - because it is.
Digitally speaking, the fact that one book's content is divided into three books and sold as one ultimately doesn't really change anything.
2) As Choir adeptly pointed out, the reason that this is more expensive is because Wizards of the Coast expects that enough customers will buy the book - even with significantly increased prices - for them to make a larger profit off it. To be brutally honest, this is just how businesses function and it's normal and to be expected with mega-corporations. Wotzy does have to make money from D&D; Because otherwise there's little reason for them to keep funneling tons of resources into making new editions, books, and even movies if those things stop being beneficial for them. Hasbro, and Wizards as a result, wants to continue being a successful company and making money for their shareholders.
3) The final point I would like to stress is that - for your typical everyday customer who doesn't have tons of disposable revenue or doesn't need to run and review Planescape immediately -preordering is likely a terrible idea. If you really read this and choose to do so, please at least don't be one of those people who comes back here and starts raging about avoidable mistakes.
I would recommend reading reviews, talking to friends, and learning the general gist of how good people think Planescape is before you buy it. Obviously, not preordering doesn't stop you from never purchasing something you didn't want to. While no method is flawless, this one will at least help in making an informed decision. After all, if you wait and come to the conclusion that ya don't want something, you can just not purchase it. With the Basic Rules and stuff, Dungeons and Dragons can be played for completely free.
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Yikes. That was way longer than I expected. There goes the prospect of getting enough sleep tonight.
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HERE.I’ll be honest, I do not see 256 pages as all that short - it is longer than most adventures are. And, unlike adventures, which are mostly story content I have no intention of using, about 2/3rds of this book will be dedicated to lore or character options. That alone makes these products worth it to me - always happy to have new monsters, backgrounds, feats, items, etc. to use in my homebrew game, and I would much rather buy a 256 page book with a wide selection of those plus dedicated lore sections than an adventure which might have a handful of new monsters, a background tor two, and some lore hidden inside a story I have no interest in.
Plus, due to the triple binding nature of these products, I have no expectations they’ll be the length of a single-bound product. That just is not really how storage space on a bookstore shelf works—bookstores do not want a full size volume with three thick hardcovers in between.
So, given the necessity of a shorter book overall, I am happy to see it at least on par with an Adventure in length. An Adventure-length product with a higher density of content I actually want is more than sufficient to whet my interest.
And, frankly, all the things folks complain that Spelljammer was missing? Recall, each Spelljammer book was 64 pages - this book is a full Spelljammer book bigger. That is a massive increase in size—and, had Spelljammer had an entire fourth book dedicated to “piloting and traversing Wildspace, and rules of Wildspace” pretty much every complaint about it would have been solved.
They really need to make it so you buy the physical book for one price then get a code for free digital content. I'd pay $50 if I got both, but the value is just too low otherwise so I buy neither