So my gaming group is 5 players and they are currently in the Anauroch desert seeking out the Sand Queen.
I’m building an encounter with a creature called a sand-worm which is similar to a purple worm.
If this creature burrows underneath the sand and would come out from beneath the party how would this work?
Is this something that would surprise them? If so, how would the surprise round work if the creature comes from underneath a PC. Does it get the attack while it emerges from the sand?
Next it will have a breath attack of corrosive sand(acid like)
Currently most of the party’s AC is the same except for the Dwarven fighter who has Dwarven Plate. His AC is like 25. The next highest is 20.
So if I create or use a creature that can hit him it will always hit everyone else. So is there a way to have this breath weapon to ruin/destroy his armor causing him to get different armor which be more inline with the rest of the party?
Not going to comment too much on the surprise stuff, except to say that it can totally work that way if you want it to; you're the DM. Also, giant swallowing monster emerging from the ground directly under the victim is a classic trope and your players are unlikely to find it problematic. (Though you might want to give them encounters with smaller, non-swallowing worm versions first, just as foreshadowing.)
As for the armor, I would not do that. First of all, if it specifically ruins his armor and nobody else's, you're obviously targeting him, and it's going to cause resentment. D&D 5 has also moved away from the "forever ruin your gear/character" monsters of earlier editions, and that's probably a good thing. It doesn't even have equipment damage rules.
The best way to fix it is to talk to the player, saying something on the lines of "Hey, when I let you get that armor, I didn't realize how much it was going to throw off encounter balance. Now, if I want to challenge you, I have to use monsters that'll beat the crap out of everyone else. Let's replace it with something still good, but less AC, with a cool extra power to make up for it."
The other main route for dealing with over-armored characters is saving throws. If you mix critters with saving-throw-based effects into your fights, you're going to find the high AC less of a problem, and may find it makes your fights overall more interesting. (And it's not unfair that they'll tend to target the heavily-armored guy that their weapon buddies can't touch; that's just good tactics. Just don't go entirely "weapon attacks for everyone else, spells for the dwarf".)
I agree with jl8e. Though I find it's pretty easy to get around AC, saving throws being the go to. Can also add on effects like burning, take the damage each turn unless you use an action to put it out. Give some monsters thorns, guaranteed damage with melee. So even if they keep the Dwarven Plate there are definitely ways around it. Also monsters like Purple Worm have +14 to hit, not difficult at all to hit AC 25.
I recently played the extra tanky character and could say I would've been crestfallen if my DM destroyed or took away a key item that let me fulfill that character.
So my gaming group is 5 players and they are currently in the Anauroch desert seeking out the Sand Queen.
I’m building an encounter with a creature called a sand-worm which is similar to a purple worm.
If this creature burrows underneath the sand and would come out from beneath the party how would this work?
Is this something that would surprise them? If so, how would the surprise round work if the creature comes from underneath a PC. Does it get the attack while it emerges from the sand?
Next it will have a breath attack of corrosive sand(acid like)
Currently most of the party’s AC is the same except for the Dwarven fighter who has Dwarven Plate. His AC is like 25. The next highest is 20.
So if I create or use a creature that can hit him it will always hit everyone else. So is there a way to have this breath weapon to ruin/destroy his armor causing him to get different armor which be more inline with the rest of the party?
I suggest not reducing his AC but if it's the way you want to go, an easy way is to use monsters that corrode armor such as Black Pudding or Rust Monster for exemple.
A burrowing creature hidden in the sand could potentially surprise enemies at the start of a combat encounter. Once combat started though, surprise is no longer possible so relying on a sort of tactic consisting of going in and out of the sand to attack could grant advantage to attack if you want.
An easy way to more easily damage characters with high AC is to bypass it and target a different attribute, so any effect that rely on saving throw will be easier. A sand breath could be a Dexterity saving throw dealing acid damage for exemple. It could even have similar corrosive effec the monsters referred above.
I had a paladin who had an AC much higher than his teammates. It was not necessary to nerf the AC though and I made it a point for enemies to try attacking him often. This made the player feel powerful. I also threw in things that would occasionally force a dex save, which he was terrible at. As others suggested, I think you can utilize that high AC to help that fighter feel like a titan, but also other methods of attack, such as saves, to make sure they are aware that they are not truly invincible.
I'm curious as to how the character got a 25 AC and what level the party is? Dwarven plate is only AC 20, so even if he had the Defense fighting style that still requires a +2 shield or other magic items to reach that high. If the party is Tier III or Tier IV, 25 AC isn't terribly high.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I'm curious as to how the character got a 25 AC and what level the party is? Dwarven plate is only AC 20, so even if he had the Defense fighting style that still requires a +2 shield or other magic items to reach that high. If the party is Tier III or Tier IV, 25 AC isn't terribly high.
The Dexterity Modifier
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DM: “Who’s your patron?”
Warlock: “Ummm”
DM: “Hurry Up”
Warlock: “yOu”
*All other players look at each other with utter fear*
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So my gaming group is 5 players and they are currently in the Anauroch desert seeking out the Sand Queen.
I’m building an encounter with a creature called a sand-worm which is similar to a purple worm.
If this creature burrows underneath the sand and would come out from beneath the party how would this work?
One of the benefits to your sand worm, for coming up from underneath the ground could be AC bonus regarding cover:
"A target with half cover has a +2 bonus to AC and Dexterity saving throws. A target has half cover if an obstacle blocks at least half of its body. The obstacle might be a low wall, a large piece of furniture, a narrow tree trunk, or a creature, whether that creature is an enemy or a friend.
A target with three-quarters cover has a +5 bonus to AC and Dexterity saving throws. A target has three-quarters cover if about three-quarters of it is covered by an obstacle. The obstacle might be a portcullis, an arrow slit, or a thick tree trunk.?"
Is this something that would surprise them? If so, how would the surprise round work if the creature comes from underneath a PC. Does it get the attack while it emerges from the sand?
The GM determines who might be surprised. You could have the players make a role DC 12 for example (up to you what the DC is) to see if they were surprised.
If you're surprised, you can't move or take an action on your first turn of the combat, and you can't take a reaction until that turn ends. A member of a group can be surprised even if the other members aren't.
Next it will have a breath attack of corrosive sand(acid like)
Currently most of the party’s AC is the same except for the Dwarven fighter who has Dwarven Plate. His AC is like 25. The next highest is 20.
So if I create or use a creature that can hit him it will always hit everyone else. So is there a way to have this breath weapon to ruin/destroy his armor causing him to get different armor which be more inline with the rest of the party?
Does the breath weapon do damage like "heat metal" spell? If it does having a high AC or not, it can still possibly do continuing damage with that type of condition
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It depends on what they had to sacrifice to get said ac, If they took every feat every level up and every ability to get this ac it is fair for them to do so. But that means all their other abilities are gonna be lacking. Toss things at them that require saves on occasion not just hits.
So, my last campaign had this AC situation too. Forge Cleric's AC was several points higher than everyone else's - and more than 10 points higher than the wizard's.
I get it. It's annoying when you can never hit that one PC, and the inclination might be to want to nerf them. But think about it this way: that player gains joy from being hard to hit. He's the tank; being attacked is the job, and avoiding damage helps the party. So lean into it. Tell him how the worm's teeth scrape and scratch against his armor and he remains unscathed. Tell him how the swords clang harmlessly off his breastplate. And then tell him to roll an intelligence save against some psychic damage. Or a Dex save against a dragon's lightning breath.
As was said before, forcing tanks to make saves is the way to damage them when melee attacks can't beat their armor. Also, use conditions. Armor is useless if you're frightened and can't actually approach the baddie to tank hits.
Plate is a type of Heavy armor, they don't get to add their dexterity modifier to their AC while wearing it.
I'm not sure if you were referring to my comment or just the AC of 25?
If it was regarding my comment, I was referring to the sandworms, not the players AC. From what I understand they would have a natural armor of 18 and a 15 DEX according to the monster stats, so would they be able to benefit from cover (e.g. coming from under the ground)?
You are correct, that there would be no AC bonus wearing plate armor with DEX, and I'm not sure how the player got AC 25 either. Maybe AC 20 with shield spell?
Never let a rules lawyer dominate a conversation. Allowing this just takes the fun and joy out of D&D. Be creative, inspiring, and have meaningful discussions!
I'm curious as to how the character got a 25 AC and what level the party is? Dwarven plate is only AC 20, so even if he had the Defense fighting style that still requires a +2 shield or other magic items to reach that high.
I have the same question. What else is attributing to the AC calculation for this character? I am assuming there must be some magical items or conditions here. Understanding all components to the calculation would help in identifying options to use to challenge the player.
Plate is a type of Heavy armor, they don't get to add their dexterity modifier to their AC while wearing it.
I'm not sure if you were referring to my comment or just the AC of 25?
If it was regarding my comment, I was referring to the sandworms, not the players AC. From what I understand they would have a natural armor of 18 and a 15 DEX according to the monster stats, so would they be able to benefit from cover (e.g. coming from under the ground)?
You are correct, that there would be no AC bonus wearing plate armor with DEX, and I'm not sure how the player got AC 25 either. Maybe AC 20 with shield spell?
How in the world would I post a reaction to a post you made after mine?
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Plate is a type of Heavy armor, they don't get to add their dexterity modifier to their AC while wearing it.
I'm not sure if you were referring to my comment or just the AC of 25?
If it was regarding my comment, I was referring to the sandworms, not the players AC. From what I understand they would have a natural armor of 18 and a 15 DEX according to the monster stats, so would they be able to benefit from cover (e.g. coming from under the ground)?
You are correct, that there would be no AC bonus wearing plate armor with DEX, and I'm not sure how the player got AC 25 either. Maybe AC 20 with shield spell?
How in the world would I post a reaction to a post you made after mine?
Never let a rules lawyer dominate a conversation. Allowing this just takes the fun and joy out of D&D. Be creative, inspiring, and have meaningful discussions!
So is there a way to have this breath weapon to ruin/destroy his armor causing him to get different armor which be more inline with the rest of the party?
Yeah, don’t do that. The whole reason your player made a character with high AC is so that it could take blow after blow after blow and stay standing. Let them. Give your monster a high enough attack modifier to hit the fighter at least some of the time, but low enough that it still misses the others some of the time, and then direct a good portion of your attacks against that high AC fighter so he can feel mighty. If you accidentally make the attack modifier a little too high for everyone else simply target that fighter more often. And give the monster something that forces a Dex save and if it turns out your monster’s attack modifier isn’t quite high enough to crack the fighter some of the time then use that forced Dex save to hurt it.
So is there a way to have this breath weapon to ruin/destroy his armor causing him to get different armor which be more inline with the rest of the party?
Yeah, don’t do that. The whole reason your player made a character with high AC is so that it could take blow after blow after blow and stay standing. Let them. Give your monster a high enough attack modifier to hit the fighter at least some of the time, but low enough that it still misses the others some of the time, and then direct a good portion of your attacks against that high AC fighter so he can feel mighty. If you accidentally make the attack modifier a little too high for everyone else simply target that fighter more often. And give the monster something that forces a Dex save and if it turns out your monster’s attack modifier isn’t quite high enough to crack the fighter some of the time then use that forced Dex save to hurt it.
I agree, even if you did manage to remove/damage the armor they are wearing, the player would not be happy about it and it will take away from the fun in the gameplay. Also, the player would probably look for the 1st opportunity to get the plate armor back. Also, at higher levels high AC is not uncommon.
Changing your combat sessions to focus on ways that you force saving through for DEX/INT/WIS eg. Fireball, lightning bolt, phantasmal force, faerie fire by creating foes/environments that have those type of spells. Alternatively, conditions such as retrained, stunned, charmed or frightened could be useful. Especially charmed, if you turn the dwarf against the party then the high AC is no longer an advantage to the party.
This could create the drama and excitement for the encounter, but at the same time do not target the dwarf specifically, be fair to all players.
Never let a rules lawyer dominate a conversation. Allowing this just takes the fun and joy out of D&D. Be creative, inspiring, and have meaningful discussions!
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So my gaming group is 5 players and they are currently in the Anauroch desert seeking out the Sand Queen.
I’m building an encounter with a creature called a sand-worm which is similar to a purple worm.
If this creature burrows underneath the sand and would come out from beneath the party how would this work?
Is this something that would surprise them? If so, how would the surprise round work if the creature comes from underneath a PC. Does it get the attack while it emerges from the sand?
Next it will have a breath attack of corrosive sand(acid like)
Currently most of the party’s AC is the same except for the Dwarven fighter who has Dwarven Plate. His AC is like 25. The next highest is 20.
So if I create or use a creature that can hit him it will always hit everyone else. So is there a way to have this breath weapon to ruin/destroy his armor causing him to get different armor which be more inline with the rest of the party?
Not going to comment too much on the surprise stuff, except to say that it can totally work that way if you want it to; you're the DM. Also, giant swallowing monster emerging from the ground directly under the victim is a classic trope and your players are unlikely to find it problematic. (Though you might want to give them encounters with smaller, non-swallowing worm versions first, just as foreshadowing.)
As for the armor, I would not do that. First of all, if it specifically ruins his armor and nobody else's, you're obviously targeting him, and it's going to cause resentment. D&D 5 has also moved away from the "forever ruin your gear/character" monsters of earlier editions, and that's probably a good thing. It doesn't even have equipment damage rules.
The best way to fix it is to talk to the player, saying something on the lines of "Hey, when I let you get that armor, I didn't realize how much it was going to throw off encounter balance. Now, if I want to challenge you, I have to use monsters that'll beat the crap out of everyone else. Let's replace it with something still good, but less AC, with a cool extra power to make up for it."
The other main route for dealing with over-armored characters is saving throws. If you mix critters with saving-throw-based effects into your fights, you're going to find the high AC less of a problem, and may find it makes your fights overall more interesting. (And it's not unfair that they'll tend to target the heavily-armored guy that their weapon buddies can't touch; that's just good tactics. Just don't go entirely "weapon attacks for everyone else, spells for the dwarf".)
I agree with jl8e. Though I find it's pretty easy to get around AC, saving throws being the go to. Can also add on effects like burning, take the damage each turn unless you use an action to put it out. Give some monsters thorns, guaranteed damage with melee. So even if they keep the Dwarven Plate there are definitely ways around it. Also monsters like Purple Worm have +14 to hit, not difficult at all to hit AC 25.
I recently played the extra tanky character and could say I would've been crestfallen if my DM destroyed or took away a key item that let me fulfill that character.
I suggest not reducing his AC but if it's the way you want to go, an easy way is to use monsters that corrode armor such as Black Pudding or Rust Monster for exemple.
A burrowing creature hidden in the sand could potentially surprise enemies at the start of a combat encounter. Once combat started though, surprise is no longer possible so relying on a sort of tactic consisting of going in and out of the sand to attack could grant advantage to attack if you want.
An easy way to more easily damage characters with high AC is to bypass it and target a different attribute, so any effect that rely on saving throw will be easier. A sand breath could be a Dexterity saving throw dealing acid damage for exemple. It could even have similar corrosive effec the monsters referred above.
I had a paladin who had an AC much higher than his teammates. It was not necessary to nerf the AC though and I made it a point for enemies to try attacking him often. This made the player feel powerful. I also threw in things that would occasionally force a dex save, which he was terrible at. As others suggested, I think you can utilize that high AC to help that fighter feel like a titan, but also other methods of attack, such as saves, to make sure they are aware that they are not truly invincible.
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DM: “Who’s your patron?”
Warlock: “Ummm”
DM: “Hurry Up”
Warlock: “yOu”
*All other players look at each other with utter fear*
__________________________________________________________________________________
Check out my homebrew: My Homebrew
I'm curious as to how the character got a 25 AC and what level the party is? Dwarven plate is only AC 20, so even if he had the Defense fighting style that still requires a +2 shield or other magic items to reach that high. If the party is Tier III or Tier IV, 25 AC isn't terribly high.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
The Dexterity Modifier
DM: “Who’s your patron?”
Warlock: “Ummm”
DM: “Hurry Up”
Warlock: “yOu”
*All other players look at each other with utter fear*
__________________________________________________________________________________
Check out my homebrew: My Homebrew
Plate is a type of Heavy armor, they don't get to add their dexterity modifier to their AC while wearing it.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
One of the benefits to your sand worm, for coming up from underneath the ground could be AC bonus regarding cover:
"A target with half cover has a +2 bonus to AC and Dexterity saving throws. A target has half cover if an obstacle blocks at least half of its body. The obstacle might be a low wall, a large piece of furniture, a narrow tree trunk, or a creature, whether that creature is an enemy or a friend.
A target with three-quarters cover has a +5 bonus to AC and Dexterity saving throws. A target has three-quarters cover if about three-quarters of it is covered by an obstacle. The obstacle might be a portcullis, an arrow slit, or a thick tree trunk.?"
Never let a rules lawyer dominate a conversation. Allowing this just takes the fun and joy out of D&D. Be creative, inspiring, and have meaningful discussions!
9th level
It depends on what they had to sacrifice to get said ac, If they took every feat every level up and every ability to get this ac it is fair for them to do so. But that means all their other abilities are gonna be lacking. Toss things at them that require saves on occasion not just hits.
So, my last campaign had this AC situation too. Forge Cleric's AC was several points higher than everyone else's - and more than 10 points higher than the wizard's.
I get it. It's annoying when you can never hit that one PC, and the inclination might be to want to nerf them. But think about it this way: that player gains joy from being hard to hit. He's the tank; being attacked is the job, and avoiding damage helps the party. So lean into it. Tell him how the worm's teeth scrape and scratch against his armor and he remains unscathed. Tell him how the swords clang harmlessly off his breastplate. And then tell him to roll an intelligence save against some psychic damage. Or a Dex save against a dragon's lightning breath.
As was said before, forcing tanks to make saves is the way to damage them when melee attacks can't beat their armor. Also, use conditions. Armor is useless if you're frightened and can't actually approach the baddie to tank hits.
I'm not sure if you were referring to my comment or just the AC of 25?
If it was regarding my comment, I was referring to the sandworms, not the players AC. From what I understand they would have a natural armor of 18 and a 15 DEX according to the monster stats, so would they be able to benefit from cover (e.g. coming from under the ground)?
You are correct, that there would be no AC bonus wearing plate armor with DEX, and I'm not sure how the player got AC 25 either. Maybe AC 20 with shield spell?
Never let a rules lawyer dominate a conversation. Allowing this just takes the fun and joy out of D&D. Be creative, inspiring, and have meaningful discussions!
I have the same question. What else is attributing to the AC calculation for this character? I am assuming there must be some magical items or conditions here. Understanding all components to the calculation would help in identifying options to use to challenge the player.
if the creature is big enough to swallow the target make the attack a dexterity save ignoring armor entirely
How in the world would I post a reaction to a post you made after mine?
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Misread the post, my mistake.
Never let a rules lawyer dominate a conversation. Allowing this just takes the fun and joy out of D&D. Be creative, inspiring, and have meaningful discussions!
Yeah, don’t do that. The whole reason your player made a character with high AC is so that it could take blow after blow after blow and stay standing. Let them. Give your monster a high enough attack modifier to hit the fighter at least some of the time, but low enough that it still misses the others some of the time, and then direct a good portion of your attacks against that high AC fighter so he can feel mighty. If you accidentally make the attack modifier a little too high for everyone else simply target that fighter more often. And give the monster something that forces a Dex save and if it turns out your monster’s attack modifier isn’t quite high enough to crack the fighter some of the time then use that forced Dex save to hurt it.
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I agree, even if you did manage to remove/damage the armor they are wearing, the player would not be happy about it and it will take away from the fun in the gameplay. Also, the player would probably look for the 1st opportunity to get the plate armor back. Also, at higher levels high AC is not uncommon.
Changing your combat sessions to focus on ways that you force saving through for DEX/INT/WIS eg. Fireball, lightning bolt, phantasmal force, faerie fire by creating foes/environments that have those type of spells. Alternatively, conditions such as retrained, stunned, charmed or frightened could be useful. Especially charmed, if you turn the dwarf against the party then the high AC is no longer an advantage to the party.
This could create the drama and excitement for the encounter, but at the same time do not target the dwarf specifically, be fair to all players.
Never let a rules lawyer dominate a conversation. Allowing this just takes the fun and joy out of D&D. Be creative, inspiring, and have meaningful discussions!