iv got no means of publishing things besides homebrew stuff here lol but if i ever do i will! Ill let you know how it feels i have a ranger ill ask my dm if i can try it.
iv got no means of publishing things besides homebrew stuff here lol but if i ever do i will! Ill let you know how it feels i have a ranger ill ask my dm if i can try it.
When introducing a new mechanic, you need to evaluate the complexity you are adding versus the depth that arises from that complexity. Ideally you want mechanics that provide a lot of depth without adding a lot of complexity. Adding yet another type of spell progression is a great example of adding complexity without really adding much depth, because there's not a lot of new functionality you're adding here. And you can already do something similar with multiclassing anyway.
If you think artificers and rangers need a boost and bards need a nerf, there are many simpler ways to go about it than this that don't require a whole new chart to reference.
Just multi-class. Artificer + Wizard makes for a nice arcane 3/4 caster. Paladin+Cleric makes for a great divine 3/4 caster (MORE SMITES!) Druid +Ranger makes for an interesting primal 3/4 caster.
Most of the time I like to think of these combos as the 1/2 caster class boosted with more slots rather than the full caster decreased.
Just multi-class. Artificer + Wizard makes for a nice arcane 3/4 caster. Paladin+Cleric makes for a great divine 3/4 caster (MORE SMITES!) Druid +Ranger makes for an interesting primal 3/4 caster.
No it doesn't. It massacres your max known spell level. A thing I've considered for 'casts as a wizard' subclasses is to make them just directly stack, so wizard-10/eldritch knight-10 (has spell slots as if level 13) would be able to cast 7th level wizard spells. BG3 has a bug/feature where that works for wizards for any class, so wizard-2/cleric-10 can learn and prepare 6th level wizard spells, which is a bit overtuned, but for specific subclasses it works.
multiclassing can help but if you wanted to go a full 20 in one of the suggested classes or dont like multiclassing then you miss out on alot. artificer lvl 20 is super strong. ranger depending on the subclass can be really tricky to do.
No it doesn't. It massacres your max known spell level.
If you actually cared about that you'd be a full caster anyway.
If I didn't care about that I wouldn't be a caster at all. Mixing a half-caster and a full caster is an excellent way to be bad at everything.
But they're not. People mix Paladin/Sorcerer, or Wizard/Artificer, or Druid/Ranger all the time.
People who play half-casters are fine with, say, getting 4th-level spells at 13. But someone who goes for a mixed build can beeline for that same spell rank by 7 and then have the rest of their build left over to pick up whatever they were after from their half-caster side, e.g. Aura of Protection or Flash of Genius, all while continuing to get additional slot progression for upcasting or just plain ammunition. If those builds are "bad at everything" then you must think half-casters are even worse.
multiclassing can help but if you wanted to go a full 20 in one of the suggested classes or dont like multiclassing then you miss out on alot. artificer lvl 20 is super strong. ranger depending on the subclass can be really tricky to do.
I mean, if you don't like multiclassing then the thread's question becomes real easy to answer, there are no 3/4 casters without homebrew.
But they're not. People mix Paladin/Sorcerer, or Wizard/Artificer, or Druid/Ranger all the time.
People do a lot of dumb things. Paladin/Sorcerer is viable (though Paladin/Bard is generally better, unless your goal is to dip for shield and absorb elements) because of smite mechanics. Wizard/Artificer and Druid/Ranger are just bad.
If nothing else it's pretty detrimental to the "caster" side of things to delay spell level progression. And I admit I'm not seeing the perks to Wizard/Artificer or Druid/Ranger. For the first there doesn't seem to be any gain from Artificer dipping Wizard they can't get with a feat or infusion, and while there's two or three no level pre-req infusions that might be nice to have on a Wizard I'm not sure any of them are worth being behind on your spell progression. For Druid/Ranger about the only thing that stands out is dipping for Wild Shape on a Ranger, except at a dip you're only getting very low CR ground forms.
But they're not. People mix Paladin/Sorcerer, or Wizard/Artificer, or Druid/Ranger all the time.
People do a lot of dumb things. Paladin/Sorcerer is viable (though Paladin/Bard is generally better, unless your goal is to dip for shield and absorb elements) because of smite mechanics. Wizard/Artificer and Druid/Ranger are just bad.
I always thought it was Paladin/Warlock for the refreshing spell slots. What is the Bard good for?
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
If nothing else it's pretty detrimental to the "caster" side of things to delay spell level progression. And I admit I'm not seeing the perks to Wizard/Artificer or Druid/Ranger. For the first there doesn't seem to be any gain from Artificer dipping Wizard they can't get with a feat or infusion, and while there's two or three no level pre-req infusions that might be nice to have on a Wizard I'm not sure any of them are worth being behind on your spell progression. For Druid/Ranger about the only thing that stands out is dipping for Wild Shape on a Ranger, except at a dip you're only getting very low CR ground forms.
The other way around, wizard with artificer dip (start artificer) it gives armor/shield proficiency and CON save proficiency for your concentration spells. And 1 level doesn’t affect spell progression as it rounds up for MC, iirc.
But they're not. People mix Paladin/Sorcerer, or Wizard/Artificer, or Druid/Ranger all the time.
People do a lot of dumb things. Paladin/Sorcerer is viable (though Paladin/Bard is generally better, unless your goal is to dip for shield and absorb elements) because of smite mechanics. Wizard/Artificer and Druid/Ranger are just bad.
I always thought it was Paladin/Warlock for the refreshing spell slots. What is the Bard good for?
Just multi-class. Artificer + Wizard makes for a nice arcane 3/4 caster. Paladin+Cleric makes for a great divine 3/4 caster (MORE SMITES!) Druid +Ranger makes for an interesting primal 3/4 caster.
No it doesn't. It massacres your max known spell level. A thing I've considered for 'casts as a wizard' subclasses is to make them just directly stack, so wizard-10/eldritch knight-10 (has spell slots as if level 13) would be able to cast 7th level wizard spells. BG3 has a bug/feature where that works for wizards for any class, so wizard-2/cleric-10 can learn and prepare 6th level wizard spells, which is a bit overtuned, but for specific subclasses it works.
You have missed the entire idea. Max spell known is something the full caster desires, but a 1/2 caster is much less interested in it. He will NEVER have the highest spells. If you had not cut my quote off, the next line ends "the 1/2 caster class boosted with more slots rather than the full caster decreased."
The Paladin Cleric combo is there not to give you 9th level spells but to double the number of smites you get. This is a big boost for a Smiting Paladin. Consider a 10th level Paladin vs a Paladin 6/Cleric 4. The 10th Paladin has 4 first, 3 2nd and 2 3rd level slots for smiting. The Pal 6/Cle 4 has 4 first, 3 2nd, 3 3rd and 1 4th. Two extra smites of the higher values. He gives up the aura of courage and the 6th level Paladin subclass, but gets the Channel DIvinity and the cleric subclass ability.
This is not for everyone, but if you are looking for a 3/4 caster, it is pretty much exactly what you want.
Just multi-class. Artificer + Wizard makes for a nice arcane 3/4 caster. Paladin+Cleric makes for a great divine 3/4 caster (MORE SMITES!) Druid +Ranger makes for an interesting primal 3/4 caster.
No it doesn't. It massacres your max known spell level. A thing I've considered for 'casts as a wizard' subclasses is to make them just directly stack, so wizard-10/eldritch knight-10 (has spell slots as if level 13) would be able to cast 7th level wizard spells. BG3 has a bug/feature where that works for wizards for any class, so wizard-2/cleric-10 can learn and prepare 6th level wizard spells, which is a bit overtuned, but for specific subclasses it works.
You have missed the entire idea. Max spell known is something the full caster desires, but a 1/2 caster is much less interested in it. He will NEVER have the highest spells. If you had not cut my quote off, the next line ends "the 1/2 caster class boosted with more slots rather than the full caster decreased."
The Paladin Cleric combo is there not to give you 9th level spells but to double the number of smites you get. This is a big boost for a Smiting Paladin. Consider a 10th level Paladin vs a Paladin 6/Cleric 4. The 10th Paladin has 4 first, 3 2nd and 2 3rd level slots for smiting. The Pal 6/Cle 4 has 4 first, 3 2nd, 3 3rd and 1 4th. Two extra smites of the higher values. He gives up the aura of courage and the 6th level Paladin subclass, but gets the Channel DIvinity and the cleric subclass ability.
This is not for everyone, but if you are looking for a 3/4 caster, it is pretty much exactly what you want.
I still say it’s better to dip Bard (or Sorcerer, or Warlock) than Cleric if what you’re going for is the additional Divine Smites. Synergizes better IMO.
People do a lot of dumb things. Paladin/Sorcerer is viable (though Paladin/Bard is generally better, unless your goal is to dip for shield and absorb elements) because of smite mechanics. Wizard/Artificer and Druid/Ranger are just bad.
Again, if all you care about is raw power, just be a full caster, that's totally fine if that's what you like. But if you're somehow incapable of making a viable multiclass character with casting that lands between 1/2 and full, I assure you that other people are and find that fun. People liking different playstyles than you doesn't make their choices "dumb."
People do a lot of dumb things. Paladin/Sorcerer is viable (though Paladin/Bard is generally better, unless your goal is to dip for shield and absorb elements) because of smite mechanics. Wizard/Artificer and Druid/Ranger are just bad.
Again, if all you care about is raw power, just be a full caster, that's totally fine if that's what you like. But if you're somehow incapable of making a viable multiclass character with casting that lands between 1/2 and full, I assure you that other people are and find that fun. People liking different playstyles than you doesn't make their choices "dumb."
Multiclass of a half-caster and a full-caster is not casting that lands between 1/2 and full, unless you're just doing a dip on a full caster, in which case there's often no reason to have the half-caster in the mix at all -- for example, if you want armor and con save proficiency, just take a fighter dip.
Multiclass of a half-caster and a full-caster is not casting that lands between 1/2 and full, unless you're just doing a dip on a full caster, in which case there's often no reason to have the half-caster in the mix at all -- for example, if you want armor and con save proficiency, just take a fighter dip.
Neither a Fighter dip nor a Paladin dip will give you Aura of Protection on your sorcerer or bard, you need at least 6 levels. Flash of Genius from Artificer needs 7. Ranger's chassis sucks considerably more, but there are no druid subclasses that get Extra Attack so depending on build they may want at least 5. With all three of these multiclasses, you get something that has less casting than a full caster or a full caster with a dip, but more casting than a straight half-caster, which is what the OP seemingly wants.
Again, none of these will be as strong as a full-caster, and that's okay - neither would any half-caster.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
iv got no means of publishing things besides homebrew stuff here lol but if i ever do i will! Ill let you know how it feels i have a ranger ill ask my dm if i can try it.
👍
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
When introducing a new mechanic, you need to evaluate the complexity you are adding versus the depth that arises from that complexity. Ideally you want mechanics that provide a lot of depth without adding a lot of complexity. Adding yet another type of spell progression is a great example of adding complexity without really adding much depth, because there's not a lot of new functionality you're adding here. And you can already do something similar with multiclassing anyway.
If you think artificers and rangers need a boost and bards need a nerf, there are many simpler ways to go about it than this that don't require a whole new chart to reference.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
Just multi-class. Artificer + Wizard makes for a nice arcane 3/4 caster. Paladin+Cleric makes for a great divine 3/4 caster (MORE SMITES!) Druid +Ranger makes for an interesting primal 3/4 caster.
Most of the time I like to think of these combos as the 1/2 caster class boosted with more slots rather than the full caster decreased.
No it doesn't. It massacres your max known spell level. A thing I've considered for 'casts as a wizard' subclasses is to make them just directly stack, so wizard-10/eldritch knight-10 (has spell slots as if level 13) would be able to cast 7th level wizard spells. BG3 has a bug/feature where that works for wizards for any class, so wizard-2/cleric-10 can learn and prepare 6th level wizard spells, which is a bit overtuned, but for specific subclasses it works.
If you actually cared about that you'd be a full caster anyway.
If I didn't care about that I wouldn't be a caster at all. Mixing a half-caster and a full caster is an excellent way to be bad at everything.
multiclassing can help but if you wanted to go a full 20 in one of the suggested classes or dont like multiclassing then you miss out on alot. artificer lvl 20 is super strong. ranger depending on the subclass can be really tricky to do.
But they're not. People mix Paladin/Sorcerer, or Wizard/Artificer, or Druid/Ranger all the time.
People who play half-casters are fine with, say, getting 4th-level spells at 13. But someone who goes for a mixed build can beeline for that same spell rank by 7 and then have the rest of their build left over to pick up whatever they were after from their half-caster side, e.g. Aura of Protection or Flash of Genius, all while continuing to get additional slot progression for upcasting or just plain ammunition. If those builds are "bad at everything" then you must think half-casters are even worse.
I mean, if you don't like multiclassing then the thread's question becomes real easy to answer, there are no 3/4 casters without homebrew.
People do a lot of dumb things. Paladin/Sorcerer is viable (though Paladin/Bard is generally better, unless your goal is to dip for shield and absorb elements) because of smite mechanics. Wizard/Artificer and Druid/Ranger are just bad.
If nothing else it's pretty detrimental to the "caster" side of things to delay spell level progression. And I admit I'm not seeing the perks to Wizard/Artificer or Druid/Ranger. For the first there doesn't seem to be any gain from Artificer dipping Wizard they can't get with a feat or infusion, and while there's two or three no level pre-req infusions that might be nice to have on a Wizard I'm not sure any of them are worth being behind on your spell progression. For Druid/Ranger about the only thing that stands out is dipping for Wild Shape on a Ranger, except at a dip you're only getting very low CR ground forms.
I always thought it was Paladin/Warlock for the refreshing spell slots. What is the Bard good for?
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
The other way around, wizard with artificer dip (start artificer) it gives armor/shield proficiency and CON save proficiency for your concentration spells. And 1 level doesn’t affect spell progression as it rounds up for MC, iirc.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
A paladin/Whispers bard is hella wicked awesom.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
You have missed the entire idea. Max spell known is something the full caster desires, but a 1/2 caster is much less interested in it. He will NEVER have the highest spells. If you had not cut my quote off, the next line ends "the 1/2 caster class boosted with more slots rather than the full caster decreased."
The Paladin Cleric combo is there not to give you 9th level spells but to double the number of smites you get. This is a big boost for a Smiting Paladin. Consider a 10th level Paladin vs a Paladin 6/Cleric 4. The 10th Paladin has 4 first, 3 2nd and 2 3rd level slots for smiting. The Pal 6/Cle 4 has 4 first, 3 2nd, 3 3rd and 1 4th. Two extra smites of the higher values. He gives up the aura of courage and the 6th level Paladin subclass, but gets the Channel DIvinity and the cleric subclass ability.
This is not for everyone, but if you are looking for a 3/4 caster, it is pretty much exactly what you want.
I still say it’s better to dip Bard (or Sorcerer, or Warlock) than Cleric if what you’re going for is the additional Divine Smites. Synergizes better IMO.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
Again, if all you care about is raw power, just be a full caster, that's totally fine if that's what you like. But if you're somehow incapable of making a viable multiclass character with casting that lands between 1/2 and full, I assure you that other people are and find that fun. People liking different playstyles than you doesn't make their choices "dumb."
Multiclass of a half-caster and a full-caster is not casting that lands between 1/2 and full, unless you're just doing a dip on a full caster, in which case there's often no reason to have the half-caster in the mix at all -- for example, if you want armor and con save proficiency, just take a fighter dip.
Neither a Fighter dip nor a Paladin dip will give you Aura of Protection on your sorcerer or bard, you need at least 6 levels. Flash of Genius from Artificer needs 7. Ranger's chassis sucks considerably more, but there are no druid subclasses that get Extra Attack so depending on build they may want at least 5. With all three of these multiclasses, you get something that has less casting than a full caster or a full caster with a dip, but more casting than a straight half-caster, which is what the OP seemingly wants.
Again, none of these will be as strong as a full-caster, and that's okay - neither would any half-caster.