So what is this class? Is it a stand alone type with it's own campaigns? I don't imagine there's going to be gun slinging in D&D campaigns that are typically between the Bronze and Middle ages. We played Boot Hill once or twice, but it was the Old West, not fantasy.
I take it you've never watched any of the first Critical Role campaign or the animated series recreating it on Amazon. The Critter community seems just fine with gunslingers alongside druids and I-Would-Like-To-Rage barbarians. It's not my cup of tea but there is at least a bit of a market for it.
D&D is ahistorical and pulls from all time periods. That's a big part of what makes it fantasy.
150% this.
In my campaigns, I do not shy away from Tech based items. 9 Hells, Planescape is technically a Sci-Fi setting, So is Spelljammer. As Spelljamer & Planescape fall into the "Sword & Planet" Sci-Fi genre. Which ironically Star Wars partially also falls into.
So yeah, just 2 sessions ago my Ranger got a Hellfire Anti-matter gun. because I'm a nice DM and felt his character was lacking a lot. Seriously 2024 rangers are weak sauce. So yeah, totally getting the Gunslinger and allowing my players to play it in all campaigns.
Gunpowder came before plate armour. It's an ahistorical fiction that we hold that knights in plate armour we're running around with guns being completely absent. The image we have of that time is quite...odd, when you compare it to real history. Regardless, you can regulate your games to your liking.
Specifically though, this class was part of Valda's that was already partially released. I'm unsure why they decided to release it piecemeal.
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
There are monsters (well at least one monster) in the 24 MM that uses a pistol. Guns are in the PHB standard equipment list. If we go back, guns, and laser guns, were an option in 1e.
There’s a long history of them in the game. I’d call them anachronistic, but since D&D doesn’t really have an accurate real world time period, it’s kind of impossible to say anything doesn’t fit the time period.
To me, guns are a get-your-chocolate-out-of-my-peanut-butter situation, but it’s nice for people who like them to have them.
It's not hard to reflavor guns as magical devices. It's basically just a miniaturized catapult device. "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" and all that.
It's not hard to reflavor guns as magical devices. It's basically just a miniaturized catapult device. "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" and all that.
Exactly. "Any sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology." (IYKYK)
Gunpowder came before plate armour. It's an ahistorical fiction that we hold that knights in plate armour we're running around with guns being completely absent. The image we have of that time is quite...odd, when you compare it to real history. Regardless, you can regulate your games to your liking.
Specifically though, this class was part of Valda's that was already partially released. I'm unsure why they decided to release it piecemeal.
While I agree with the sentiment, as I love a mix of knights and firearms, the truth is full plate armor goes back a few thousand years. The Ancient Greeks used full plate with their hoplites.
See:
Just recently the Greek Army tested this Armor for science, and historic reasons.
This is fantasy. I once had a Colonial marine running around with a warlock, an artificer that made a steel defender out of cheese and a wine barrel, and a rouge who was just a possessed pair of gloves trapped in a legally distinct Jurassic park and the biggest threat was a Trex litch using a pair of jeeps as rollerskates. Then there was me, with my recycled paladin playing it straight. And by playing it straight i mean confused by everything and bursting into tears when he found out what a telephone is, and that it can't call heaven.
you would be surprised what silliness people will tolerate in D&D, now if they are fine with that, a musket or a pirate with a brace of pistols aint a problem.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
He/Him. Loooooooooong time Player. The Dark days of the THAC0 system are behind us.
"Hope is a fire that burns in us all If only an ember, awaiting your call To rise up in triumph should we all unite The spark for change is yours to ignite." Kalandra - The State of the World
D&D is ahistorical and pulls from all time periods. That's a big part of what makes it fantasy.
True there have been those rare cases, but generally since D&D began the setting has always been in a medieval or earlier time period with no guns, rifles or phasers.
D&D is ahistorical and pulls from all time periods. That's a big part of what makes it fantasy.
True there have been those rare cases, but generally since D&D began the setting has always been in a medieval or earlier time period with no guns, rifles or phasers.
Expedition to the Barrier Peaks, first played in 1976 and published in 1980 was set on a spaceship which had crashed in greyhawk. Written by Gary himself. Robots and laser guns have been an option in D&D from the start.
Memory is a funny thing. Much of what most of us can remember is riddled with holes filled with our imagination and biases. As has been pointed out by many, D&D is not a medieval game. As a game that is ahistorical, it is able to have elements from both real world history and our own imaginations. The 2014 DMG had firearms from three eras. The gunslinger subclass has been around forever. I am a little confused why this new third party content is a problem when the CR version has enjoyed play for years.
D&D is ahistorical and pulls from all time periods. That's a big part of what makes it fantasy.
True there have been those rare cases, but generally since D&D began the setting has always been in a medieval or earlier time period with no guns, rifles or phasers
Not really
Forgotten Realms is proximal to the Renaissance era, a time of firearms and riflery. It features several characters that wield guns
Greyhawk literally has a gun toting cowboy god
Eberron is a setting of magic proxying technology with wand slingers and eldritch cannons
Spelljammer has always featured pseudo-science fiction themes with ray guns and blasters and the like
Expedition to Barrier Peaks features ray guns, rifles, and robots
D&D has been an ahistorical melting pot of all things fantastic and fanciful---including firearms---for much longer than it hasn't. The closest thing we have to a medieval setting today is Dragonlance, even including Greyhawk. D&D pulls from more non-medieval time periods than medieval ones.
There is evidence of firearms appearing in Florence in 1326. the Handgonne, was not a musket, but to most non firearm or historical obsessed people, they are close enough is to a Musket that the stats are interchangeable.
Guns can be considered medieval historical. Sometimes, history goes counter to the popular vibe. That is why i stopped caring about historicity, it limits both the vibes wanted, and the imagination.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
He/Him. Loooooooooong time Player. The Dark days of the THAC0 system are behind us.
"Hope is a fire that burns in us all If only an ember, awaiting your call To rise up in triumph should we all unite The spark for change is yours to ignite." Kalandra - The State of the World
D&D is ahistorical and pulls from all time periods. That's a big part of what makes it fantasy.
True there have been those rare cases, but generally since D&D began the setting has always been in a medieval or earlier time period with no guns, rifles or phasers
Not really
Forgotten Realms is proximal to the Renaissance era, a time of firearms and riflery. It features several characters that wield guns
Greyhawk literally has a gun toting cowboy god
Eberron is a setting of magic proxying technology with wand slingers and eldritch cannons
Spelljammer has always featured pseudo-science fiction themes with ray guns and blasters and the like
Expedition to Barrier Peaks features ray guns, rifles, and robots
D&D has been an ahistorical melting pot of all things fantastic and fanciful---including firearms---for much longer than it hasn't. The closest thing we have to a medieval setting today is Dragonlance, even including Greyhawk. D&D pulls from more non-medieval time periods than medieval ones.
None of the disputes what I already said. D&D has always been a medieval fantasy game at it's core, based in part on Chainmail. Sure there are some cross over for those who like that.
D&D is ahistorical and pulls from all time periods. That's a big part of what makes it fantasy.
True there have been those rare cases, but generally since D&D began the setting has always been in a medieval or earlier time period with no guns, rifles or phasers
Not really
Forgotten Realms is proximal to the Renaissance era, a time of firearms and riflery. It features several characters that wield guns
Greyhawk literally has a gun toting cowboy god
Eberron is a setting of magic proxying technology with wand slingers and eldritch cannons
Spelljammer has always featured pseudo-science fiction themes with ray guns and blasters and the like
Expedition to Barrier Peaks features ray guns, rifles, and robots
D&D has been an ahistorical melting pot of all things fantastic and fanciful---including firearms---for much longer than it hasn't. The closest thing we have to a medieval setting today is Dragonlance, even including Greyhawk. D&D pulls from more non-medieval time periods than medieval ones.
None of the disputes what I already said. D&D has always been a medieval fantasy game at it's core, based in part on Chainmail. Sure there are some cross over for those who like that.
At its core, it is a Fantasy game. That means weirdness of any flavor you can imagine and crave. It need not be stuck in a little box, neatly closed off from other influences. there have been sci-fi and tech elements since the 80's and much of the material such as the weird fiction of the 1920s that inspired the lore of the game had aliens and fantastic tech as well as magic. Illithids are timetraveling, reality hopping aliens with living starships, and they first started appearing in 1974. There has been tech in the game since before i was born.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
He/Him. Loooooooooong time Player. The Dark days of the THAC0 system are behind us.
"Hope is a fire that burns in us all If only an ember, awaiting your call To rise up in triumph should we all unite The spark for change is yours to ignite." Kalandra - The State of the World
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So what is this class? Is it a stand alone type with it's own campaigns? I don't imagine there's going to be gun slinging in D&D campaigns that are typically between the Bronze and Middle ages. We played Boot Hill once or twice, but it was the Old West, not fantasy.
I take it you've never watched any of the first Critical Role campaign or the animated series recreating it on Amazon. The Critter community seems just fine with gunslingers alongside druids and I-Would-Like-To-Rage barbarians. It's not my cup of tea but there is at least a bit of a market for it.
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ModeratorMuskets appeared towards the end of the medieval times that most people prefer in their D&D.
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I've seen MUCH crazier degrees of historical(sic) inaccuracy & immersion breaking than a Tommy Gun doing trick shots over the years.
If someone comes to you as a player when you're the DM, & requests this class, just say "no" & move on if it's that much of a problem.
Otherwise, it's not that big of a deal IMO.
DM, player & homebrewer(Current homebrew project is an unofficial conversion of SBURB/SGRUB from Homestuck into DND 5e)
Once made Maxwell's Silver Hammer come down upon Strahd's head to make sure he was dead.
Always study & sharpen philosophical razors. They save a lot of trouble.
D&D is ahistorical and pulls from all time periods. That's a big part of what makes it fantasy.
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
150% this.
In my campaigns, I do not shy away from Tech based items. 9 Hells, Planescape is technically a Sci-Fi setting, So is Spelljammer. As Spelljamer & Planescape fall into the "Sword & Planet" Sci-Fi genre. Which ironically Star Wars partially also falls into.
So yeah, just 2 sessions ago my Ranger got a Hellfire Anti-matter gun. because I'm a nice DM and felt his character was lacking a lot. Seriously 2024 rangers are weak sauce. So yeah, totally getting the Gunslinger and allowing my players to play it in all campaigns.
Gunpowder came before plate armour. It's an ahistorical fiction that we hold that knights in plate armour we're running around with guns being completely absent. The image we have of that time is quite...odd, when you compare it to real history. Regardless, you can regulate your games to your liking.
Specifically though, this class was part of Valda's that was already partially released. I'm unsure why they decided to release it piecemeal.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Gunpowder has been in D&D since at least 2E. And setting like Eberron with a high level of magic technology are a good home for this class.
There are monsters (well at least one monster) in the 24 MM that uses a pistol. Guns are in the PHB standard equipment list.
If we go back, guns, and laser guns, were an option in 1e.
There’s a long history of them in the game. I’d call them anachronistic, but since D&D doesn’t really have an accurate real world time period, it’s kind of impossible to say anything doesn’t fit the time period.
To me, guns are a get-your-chocolate-out-of-my-peanut-butter situation, but it’s nice for people who like them to have them.
It's not hard to reflavor guns as magical devices. It's basically just a miniaturized catapult device. "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" and all that.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
Exactly. "Any sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology." (IYKYK)
While I agree with the sentiment, as I love a mix of knights and firearms, the truth is full plate armor goes back a few thousand years. The Ancient Greeks used full plate with their hoplites.
See:
Just recently the Greek Army tested this Armor for science, and historic reasons.
https://arstechnica.com/science/2024/05/researchers-get-modern-marines-to-test-ancient-greek-armor/
This is fantasy. I once had a Colonial marine running around with a warlock, an artificer that made a steel defender out of cheese and a wine barrel, and a rouge who was just a possessed pair of gloves trapped in a legally distinct Jurassic park and the biggest threat was a Trex litch using a pair of jeeps as rollerskates.
Then there was me, with my recycled paladin playing it straight. And by playing it straight i mean confused by everything and bursting into tears when he found out what a telephone is, and that it can't call heaven.
you would be surprised what silliness people will tolerate in D&D, now if they are fine with that, a musket or a pirate with a brace of pistols aint a problem.
He/Him. Loooooooooong time Player.
The Dark days of the THAC0 system are behind us.
"Hope is a fire that burns in us all If only an ember, awaiting your call
To rise up in triumph should we all unite
The spark for change is yours to ignite."
Kalandra - The State of the World
True there have been those rare cases, but generally since D&D began the setting has always been in a medieval or earlier time period with no guns, rifles or phasers.
Expedition to the Barrier Peaks, first played in 1976 and published in 1980 was set on a spaceship which had crashed in greyhawk. Written by Gary himself. Robots and laser guns have been an option in D&D from the start.
Memory is a funny thing. Much of what most of us can remember is riddled with holes filled with our imagination and biases. As has been pointed out by many, D&D is not a medieval game. As a game that is ahistorical, it is able to have elements from both real world history and our own imaginations. The 2014 DMG had firearms from three eras. The gunslinger subclass has been around forever. I am a little confused why this new third party content is a problem when the CR version has enjoyed play for years.
DM mostly, Player occasionally | Session 0 form | He/Him/They/Them
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Not really
D&D has been an ahistorical melting pot of all things fantastic and fanciful---including firearms---for much longer than it hasn't. The closest thing we have to a medieval setting today is Dragonlance, even including Greyhawk. D&D pulls from more non-medieval time periods than medieval ones.
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
There is evidence of firearms appearing in Florence in 1326. the Handgonne, was not a musket, but to most non firearm or historical obsessed people, they are close enough is to a Musket that the stats are interchangeable.
Guns can be considered medieval historical. Sometimes, history goes counter to the popular vibe. That is why i stopped caring about historicity, it limits both the vibes wanted, and the imagination.
He/Him. Loooooooooong time Player.
The Dark days of the THAC0 system are behind us.
"Hope is a fire that burns in us all If only an ember, awaiting your call
To rise up in triumph should we all unite
The spark for change is yours to ignite."
Kalandra - The State of the World
None of the disputes what I already said. D&D has always been a medieval fantasy game at it's core, based in part on Chainmail. Sure there are some cross over for those who like that.
At its core, it is a Fantasy game. That means weirdness of any flavor you can imagine and crave. It need not be stuck in a little box, neatly closed off from other influences.
there have been sci-fi and tech elements since the 80's and much of the material such as the weird fiction of the 1920s that inspired the lore of the game had aliens and fantastic tech as well as magic.
Illithids are timetraveling, reality hopping aliens with living starships, and they first started appearing in 1974. There has been tech in the game since before i was born.
He/Him. Loooooooooong time Player.
The Dark days of the THAC0 system are behind us.
"Hope is a fire that burns in us all If only an ember, awaiting your call
To rise up in triumph should we all unite
The spark for change is yours to ignite."
Kalandra - The State of the World