They are ok (I've never cared to play one). They are versatile support classes that can heal, buff/debuff, do well on skill checks and social encounters, and really lend themselves to creative players.
The problem with bards is that while they are ok in a lot of areas, they don't really stand out in any area (except in creativity and noise making). The base class features vary from the very useful and equally forgettable inspiration to the horribly underpowered countercharm, and with their spell list it is hard to consider them true casters until they get magical secrets.
The subclasses are generally pretty good at boosting the lackluster base features though, especially with giving a more active purpose to inspiration.
Bards are like "Learners of all, Masters of Nothing ".......
That's the reason they can be everything but Mastery.
The expression 'Jack of all trades, master of none' doesn't really apply to bards because while they do get jack of all trades, they also get expertise which really lets them master a few key skills. So they're more 'Jack of all trades, master of some'
In over 2 decades of D&D had never wanted to play a Bard before. Recently I said what the heck and started playing a Whispers Bard. I freaking love it!!! Wish I had played them all along!
It's hard to answer a question that has no parameters or definitions. What do you mean by "good"? You've created such a generalized post that answering it in a meaningful way is almost impossible, but I will give it a try.
Social interactions - Mechanically, Bards are excellent with this aspect of the game. However, the player himself needs to be creative and extroverted to really get the most out of this. I wouldn't recommend a bard to new players or shy players or introverted people.
Combat - Considering that bards are full spellcasters and the range of abilities they can use, they are excellent combatants as well. Once again, the full extent of this is highly dependent on the experience and creativeness of the player.
Healing - Again, as a full spellcaster you are decent in this arena but not spectacular.
Multi-classing - Perhaps the best class to work with in multi-classing, the Bard brings a lot to the table in terms of flexibility. With Charisma and Dexterity as your primary attributes you can multi-class effectively with almost any other class. I would steer away from Barbarians and Druids, however I don't see a downside to any other classes.
Thematically - This is perhaps the bards weakest category. When I think about a bard I often ask myself... so... You are a rogue? Or a wizard? or a Fighter that sings? Thematically it's very hard to define a bard and his place in a group. Because he does many things well, he doesn't really stand out in any category. You use words and songs to fight things?? That is just weird! It's one of those tropes that you've always read about, but you have a hard time accepting on a psychological level. I mean, if I were a fighter, sword in hand, facing 3 or 4 orcs and a companion pulled out a lute and began singing at them I would think he's gone daft in the head and wished him god speed as he is skewered to death by the orcs. It requires a willful suspension of belief of reality that borders on ludicrous to really accept that this class has a meaningful and realistic toolkit for adventuring. In the words of Private Frost from the movie Aliens "What the he** are we supposed to use man, harsh language?" I think this is why so many player intrinsically shy away from the class and other find it to be a "bad" class. Other classes can do what the bard does, and do it better. Couple that with the fact that the concept is just strange and thematically unbelievable in almost any setting often forces players to ask themselves... is this for real?
Overall, I think the class is a good class, but it requires someone with a great deal of experience to play it. It's strange to think that someone with a feather in his cap, bagpipes on his back, and book of prose in his hands could, with a verbal barrage, do anything meaningful to an adult red dragon.
They're a solid RPG Support class. Historically, there really hasn't been that many pure Support classes in D&D, barring your various specialized kits and prestige classes and multi class builds, etc. Support in D&D is typically mitigated by magic items. Bards are OK. I like em in 5e. RPG Support classes require real life teamwork to be effective. Without real life teamwork, they do indeed suck. A bard's reputation as being annoying merely comes from Monty Python, and this attracts a certain kind of player.
The campaign my Bard is in also has a Monster Slayer Ranger in it played by one of my best friends. We inadvertently ended up with a Geralt and Dandelion thing going on.
Ignoring all the great advice above, I'd say they're one of the best classes in the game simply because of how FUN they can be. You have some fantastic role playing oppertunities as Bards are encouraged to interact thanks to their social skills. Additionally, whilst adventuring, Bards will usually be the ones responsbile for getting the party both IN and OUT of trouble!!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
#Open D&D
Have the Physical Books? Confused as to why you're not allowed to redeem them for free on D&D Beyond? Questions answered here at the Hardcover Books, D&D Beyond and You FAQ
Looking to add mouse-over triggered tooltips to such things like magic items, monsters or combat actions? Then dash over to the How to Add Tooltips thread.
Thematically - This is perhaps the bards weakest category. When I think about a bard I often ask myself... so... You are a rogue? Or a wizard? or a Fighter that sings? Thematically it's very hard to define a bard and his place in a group. Because he does many things well, he doesn't really stand out in any category. You use words and songs to fight things?? That is just weird! It's one of those tropes that you've always read about, but you have a hard time accepting on a psychological level. I mean, if I were a fighter, sword in hand, facing 3 or 4 orcs and a companion pulled out a lute and began singing at them I would think he's gone daft in the head and wished him god speed as he is skewered to death by the orcs. It requires a willful suspension of belief of reality that borders on ludicrous to really accept that this class has a meaningful and realistic toolkit for adventuring. In the words of Private Frost from the movie Aliens "What the he** are we supposed to use man, harsh language?" I think this is why so many player intrinsically shy away from the class and other find it to be a "bad" class. Other classes can do what the bard does, and do it better. Couple that with the fact that the concept is just strange and thematically unbelievable in almost any setting often forces players to ask themselves... is this for real?
This is also what the player makes of it.
Bards are based of real world myths and histories. Even into more modern times these forms of inspiration existed. Thar's why a national anthem is played for sports, for example.
Music was used to maintain moral and inspire troops in real world history.
First what bards do on their own time with consenting adults it their business and no one else.
Bards are my go to for new players. They are good at almost everything so it gives new players a taste for what they might want on their first character they make.
First of all, if all you care about is rolling lots of damage dice, Bards are probably not for you. Otherwise, they make a great controller and support class. Their spell selection has pretty much everything on it that can ruin a BBEG's day. Inspiration is great at helping allies get hits without needing to burn a help action. And with 3 of any skills, plus expertise and jack of all trades, they are great in social and exploration situations.
Jack of all trades, master of none, oftentimed better than master of one.
You won't find a more versatile and flexible class in D&D.
Half-Proficiency in all skills means you can at least attempt just about anything with a decent chance of success. The spell list has support, healing, control, social, utility and even some damage spells. And if you feel the list lacks something there is Magical Secrets to learn any spell you'd like. College of Valor and College of Blades can turn you into a passable melee fighter, while Lore gives you even more skills and spells.
Since they are Cha based, they mesh well with Warlock (Hexblade!) and Sorcerer (Meta Magic!).
They are also great for RP... from the funny Dandelion to a grim Skald you can play almost all kinds of persons and motivations.
That class is good. Lots of solid options, the ability to get literally any combination of spells for maximal effect, healing, buffs, debuffs, damage, etc. Magically they are almost flawless. You can get solid options for being a sword and sorcery styled bard, using spells, swords, and armor to fight alongside the DPS and tanks. You can be more of an arcane archer styled bard, shooting arrows or bolts to augment your spells. You can be a pure caster, relying on one of the best cantrips in the game to aid your party. All of that, and you can be the face of the party, get half bonus on all your skills (as well as init, as its an untrained ability check). You can kit yourself out with thieves tools and investigation and be a better rogue than the rogue on disable and unlock. So you get to excel at being the party face, at least 1 of the following roles: DPS, Healer, Buffs, Debuffs, AOE, Control.... and likely you excel at at least 2 of those and are good at at least 2 more. You then get to also be great at a few skills which can completely remove the need for a party rogue. Overall its one of the strongest classes in the game when built and played right.
But, and there is a big but here..... Played right. Bards suck, but not for a single mechanical reason. They suck because of all the people that read memes, pass on stories, and in general play the bard to be "the bard"
Sleeping with everything and everyone (how many times have we heard of a joke like "I roll to seduce the dragon"). Bards are always, ALWAYS played one of two ways... a letch, or an anti-letch. Either they get played the typical "bard" way, or someone has to create some convoluted reason they are an "inspiring soldier that doesn't sing or dance or play songs, but tells stories to inspire the troops." Basically they are so cliche, that even the non cliche version of bards have become cliche. I have played & DM'd D&D for 30+ years now, and I can tell you, have not once seen a bard played in a way I would say was fun or good. I am not saying it doesn't happen.... but I have not witnessed it. Basically bards suck because the players that usually play them suck. Not all, but enough to give them all a bad rep.
What an absurd question. Of course bards don't suck.
You honestly, actually want people to tell you why bards are good? All right. A question for you first - are you looking for crunch or fluff? As others have said, your question is so open-ended as to be almost unanswerable. Elaborate on what your opinion is, then we'll tell you why you should revise it.
You realize one can play a singing bard who collects stories for their ballads without trying to seduce everyone?
And what is wrong with the "inspiring soldier"? Bards can also be poets, story tellers, acrobatic artists etc. They don't *have to* carry a lute.
The same argument can be made about every other class, really. "There are only two ways a Paladin will be played: Lawful stupid white knight or cringy pragmatist who believes his order is too indecisive to get things done." "There are only two ways to play a wizard: a wise old carbon copy of Gandalf or a novice spell caster fresh out of Hogwarts." "Rogues? Either they steal from the party because 'their character would do it' or they are the Robin-Hood-Lookalike scoundrel".
Every character and class can be reduced to be "either cliche or anti-cliche" that's nothing special about the bard class.
You realize one can play a singing bard who collects stories for their ballads without trying to seduce everyone?
"There are only two ways to play a wizard: a wise old carbon copy of Gandalf or a novice spell caster fresh out of Hogwarts."
Ironically, Gandalf was inspired from Myrddin Wyllt and Väinämöinen.Both of these characters fall under the bard heading. Myrddin was also the inspiration for Merlin.
Gandalf was a magician who inspired others to go out and do heroic things based on tales of old heroes and ancient songs. What he does not do is carry around a spell book puzzling over magical formulae. What Gandalf does do is sing the Song of Lorien to Grima Wormtongue when revealing himself and sing the Riddle to the Ents when speaking with Theoden. He used the term wizard but I would argue he's a bard with a sage background and the given the inspirations Tolkien used that would be a correct interpretation.
Brom from Eragon fits the storyteller bard trope as well. He inspired Eragon with tales of the dragon riders and then became a trainer and advisor, uses magic and healing, and engages in combat like Gandalf does.
The bard composing songs and stories certainly does not need to be seducing everyone everywhere, I agree. It's definitely the player and not the class making such choices. When I saw your example of Gandalf I thought it would be useful to point out that Gandalf's inpiration came from bards and his portrayal syncs up with bards to demonstrate more than just some character with a lute when it comes to the class.
Tell me why Bards are good.
Do the only options have to be "suck" or "good"?
They are ok (I've never cared to play one). They are versatile support classes that can heal, buff/debuff, do well on skill checks and social encounters, and really lend themselves to creative players.
The problem with bards is that while they are ok in a lot of areas, they don't really stand out in any area (except in creativity and noise making). The base class features vary from the very useful and equally forgettable inspiration to the horribly underpowered countercharm, and with their spell list it is hard to consider them true casters until they get magical secrets.
The subclasses are generally pretty good at boosting the lackluster base features though, especially with giving a more active purpose to inspiration.
Alla classes can suck or be good, it's up to the player.
Bards are like "Learners of all, Masters of Nothing ".......
That's the reason they can be everything but Mastery.
My Ready-to-rock&roll chars:
Dertinus Tristany // Amilcar Barca // Vicenç Sacrarius // Oriol Deulofeu // Grovtuk
Bards are awesome. They know a little about a lot of different things. Other classes tend to know a lot about nothing.
Interesting people love bards. Don't you want to be an interesting people?
The expression 'Jack of all trades, master of none' doesn't really apply to bards because while they do get jack of all trades, they also get expertise which really lets them master a few key skills. So they're more 'Jack of all trades, master of some'
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
I've never played a bard before, in any edition of D&D, but I am about to start playing one... so I'll let you know. ;)
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
In over 2 decades of D&D had never wanted to play a Bard before. Recently I said what the heck and started playing a Whispers Bard. I freaking love it!!! Wish I had played them all along!
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
It's hard to answer a question that has no parameters or definitions. What do you mean by "good"? You've created such a generalized post that answering it in a meaningful way is almost impossible, but I will give it a try.
Social interactions - Mechanically, Bards are excellent with this aspect of the game. However, the player himself needs to be creative and extroverted to really get the most out of this. I wouldn't recommend a bard to new players or shy players or introverted people.
Combat - Considering that bards are full spellcasters and the range of abilities they can use, they are excellent combatants as well. Once again, the full extent of this is highly dependent on the experience and creativeness of the player.
Healing - Again, as a full spellcaster you are decent in this arena but not spectacular.
Multi-classing - Perhaps the best class to work with in multi-classing, the Bard brings a lot to the table in terms of flexibility. With Charisma and Dexterity as your primary attributes you can multi-class effectively with almost any other class. I would steer away from Barbarians and Druids, however I don't see a downside to any other classes.
Thematically - This is perhaps the bards weakest category. When I think about a bard I often ask myself... so... You are a rogue? Or a wizard? or a Fighter that sings? Thematically it's very hard to define a bard and his place in a group. Because he does many things well, he doesn't really stand out in any category. You use words and songs to fight things?? That is just weird! It's one of those tropes that you've always read about, but you have a hard time accepting on a psychological level. I mean, if I were a fighter, sword in hand, facing 3 or 4 orcs and a companion pulled out a lute and began singing at them I would think he's gone daft in the head and wished him god speed as he is skewered to death by the orcs. It requires a willful suspension of belief of reality that borders on ludicrous to really accept that this class has a meaningful and realistic toolkit for adventuring. In the words of Private Frost from the movie Aliens "What the he** are we supposed to use man, harsh language?" I think this is why so many player intrinsically shy away from the class and other find it to be a "bad" class. Other classes can do what the bard does, and do it better. Couple that with the fact that the concept is just strange and thematically unbelievable in almost any setting often forces players to ask themselves... is this for real?
Overall, I think the class is a good class, but it requires someone with a great deal of experience to play it. It's strange to think that someone with a feather in his cap, bagpipes on his back, and book of prose in his hands could, with a verbal barrage, do anything meaningful to an adult red dragon.
They're a solid RPG Support class. Historically, there really hasn't been that many pure Support classes in D&D, barring your various specialized kits and prestige classes and multi class builds, etc. Support in D&D is typically mitigated by magic items. Bards are OK. I like em in 5e. RPG Support classes require real life teamwork to be effective. Without real life teamwork, they do indeed suck. A bard's reputation as being annoying merely comes from Monty Python, and this attracts a certain kind of player.
The campaign my Bard is in also has a Monster Slayer Ranger in it played by one of my best friends. We inadvertently ended up with a Geralt and Dandelion thing going on.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
Ignoring all the great advice above, I'd say they're one of the best classes in the game simply because of how FUN they can be. You have some fantastic role playing oppertunities as Bards are encouraged to interact thanks to their social skills. Additionally, whilst adventuring, Bards will usually be the ones responsbile for getting the party both IN and OUT of trouble!!
#Open D&D
Have the Physical Books? Confused as to why you're not allowed to redeem them for free on D&D Beyond? Questions answered here at the Hardcover Books, D&D Beyond and You FAQ
Looking to add mouse-over triggered tooltips to such things like magic items, monsters or combat actions? Then dash over to the How to Add Tooltips thread.
This is also what the player makes of it.
Bards are based of real world myths and histories. Even into more modern times these forms of inspiration existed. Thar's why a national anthem is played for sports, for example.
Music was used to maintain moral and inspire troops in real world history.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martial_music
It's only thematically weak if a person isn't familiar with the history involved.
First what bards do on their own time with consenting adults it their business and no one else.
Bards are my go to for new players. They are good at almost everything so it gives new players a taste for what they might want on their first character they make.
First of all, if all you care about is rolling lots of damage dice, Bards are probably not for you. Otherwise, they make a great controller and support class. Their spell selection has pretty much everything on it that can ruin a BBEG's day. Inspiration is great at helping allies get hits without needing to burn a help action. And with 3 of any skills, plus expertise and jack of all trades, they are great in social and exploration situations.
Site Info: Wizard's ToS | Fan Content Policy | Forum Rules | Physical Books | Content Not Working | Contact Support
How To: Homebrew Rules | Create Homebrew | Snippet Codes | Tool Tips (Custom) | Rollables (Generator)
My Homebrew: Races | Subclasses | Backgrounds | Feats | Spells | Magic Items
Other: Beyond20 | Page References | Other Guides | Entitlements | Dice Randomization | Images Fix | FAQ
Jack of all trades, master of none, oftentimed better than master of one.
You won't find a more versatile and flexible class in D&D.
Half-Proficiency in all skills means you can at least attempt just about anything with a decent chance of success. The spell list has support, healing, control, social, utility and even some damage spells. And if you feel the list lacks something there is Magical Secrets to learn any spell you'd like. College of Valor and College of Blades can turn you into a passable melee fighter, while Lore gives you even more skills and spells.
Since they are Cha based, they mesh well with Warlock (Hexblade!) and Sorcerer (Meta Magic!).
They are also great for RP... from the funny Dandelion to a grim Skald you can play almost all kinds of persons and motivations.
So I have two views on "Bards"
That class is good. Lots of solid options, the ability to get literally any combination of spells for maximal effect, healing, buffs, debuffs, damage, etc. Magically they are almost flawless. You can get solid options for being a sword and sorcery styled bard, using spells, swords, and armor to fight alongside the DPS and tanks. You can be more of an arcane archer styled bard, shooting arrows or bolts to augment your spells. You can be a pure caster, relying on one of the best cantrips in the game to aid your party. All of that, and you can be the face of the party, get half bonus on all your skills (as well as init, as its an untrained ability check). You can kit yourself out with thieves tools and investigation and be a better rogue than the rogue on disable and unlock. So you get to excel at being the party face, at least 1 of the following roles: DPS, Healer, Buffs, Debuffs, AOE, Control.... and likely you excel at at least 2 of those and are good at at least 2 more. You then get to also be great at a few skills which can completely remove the need for a party rogue. Overall its one of the strongest classes in the game when built and played right.
But, and there is a big but here..... Played right. Bards suck, but not for a single mechanical reason. They suck because of all the people that read memes, pass on stories, and in general play the bard to be "the bard"
Sleeping with everything and everyone (how many times have we heard of a joke like "I roll to seduce the dragon"). Bards are always, ALWAYS played one of two ways... a letch, or an anti-letch. Either they get played the typical "bard" way, or someone has to create some convoluted reason they are an "inspiring soldier that doesn't sing or dance or play songs, but tells stories to inspire the troops." Basically they are so cliche, that even the non cliche version of bards have become cliche. I have played & DM'd D&D for 30+ years now, and I can tell you, have not once seen a bard played in a way I would say was fun or good. I am not saying it doesn't happen.... but I have not witnessed it. Basically bards suck because the players that usually play them suck. Not all, but enough to give them all a bad rep.
What an absurd question. Of course bards don't suck.
You honestly, actually want people to tell you why bards are good? All right. A question for you first - are you looking for crunch or fluff? As others have said, your question is so open-ended as to be almost unanswerable. Elaborate on what your opinion is, then we'll tell you why you should revise it.
Please do not contact or message me.
You realize one can play a singing bard who collects stories for their ballads without trying to seduce everyone?
And what is wrong with the "inspiring soldier"? Bards can also be poets, story tellers, acrobatic artists etc. They don't *have to* carry a lute.
The same argument can be made about every other class, really. "There are only two ways a Paladin will be played: Lawful stupid white knight or cringy pragmatist who believes his order is too indecisive to get things done." "There are only two ways to play a wizard: a wise old carbon copy of Gandalf or a novice spell caster fresh out of Hogwarts." "Rogues? Either they steal from the party because 'their character would do it' or they are the Robin-Hood-Lookalike scoundrel".
Every character and class can be reduced to be "either cliche or anti-cliche" that's nothing special about the bard class.
Ironically, Gandalf was inspired from Myrddin Wyllt and Väinämöinen. Both of these characters fall under the bard heading. Myrddin was also the inspiration for Merlin.
Gandalf was a magician who inspired others to go out and do heroic things based on tales of old heroes and ancient songs. What he does not do is carry around a spell book puzzling over magical formulae. What Gandalf does do is sing the Song of Lorien to Grima Wormtongue when revealing himself and sing the Riddle to the Ents when speaking with Theoden. He used the term wizard but I would argue he's a bard with a sage background and the given the inspirations Tolkien used that would be a correct interpretation.
Brom from Eragon fits the storyteller bard trope as well. He inspired Eragon with tales of the dragon riders and then became a trainer and advisor, uses magic and healing, and engages in combat like Gandalf does.
The bard composing songs and stories certainly does not need to be seducing everyone everywhere, I agree. It's definitely the player and not the class making such choices. When I saw your example of Gandalf I thought it would be useful to point out that Gandalf's inpiration came from bards and his portrayal syncs up with bards to demonstrate more than just some character with a lute when it comes to the class.