As I hear it, the worldbuilding in 4e was actually pretty stellar. They actually explained the Forgotten Realms in a way that got people excited to play there. Considering that in 5e they kinda completely forgot to do any worldbuilding at all until they released SCAG, and then SCAG was...not good...I gotta wonder why people bagged on 4e so hard.
As I hear it, the worldbuilding in 4e was actually pretty stellar. They actually explained the Forgotten Realms in a way that got people excited to play there. Considering that in 5e they kinda completely forgot to do any worldbuilding at all until they released SCAG, and then SCAG was...not good...I gotta wonder why people bagged on 4e so hard.
The three common complains I’ve seen have been the massive change to established lore/adding many new things, the greater emphasis on combat with how the classes and powers were structured, and how quickly one could become a god (especially since most of the epic destiny options basically made you immortal and god tier). The system is very clunky and can be a pain to balance but I and my group still found it fun. Heck, the move to 5e after the 4e builder was taken offline was split our group as far as whether they wanted to continue or jump ship to Pathfinder. I had played some 5e before the shift so was fine.
I was actually pleasantly surprised to see that the EGtW book used a some of the gods from the 4e pantheon that was left behind in the switch like Zehir.
I know I am no 'Homebrew' expert. I will try.......don't know how long it will take me as I have never done it before. It will be a Cleric subclass that I do know.
If after I do this and take my lumps from the Experts those same Experts need to help me build a new class that I now have running through my head......Deal? What can I say except that all of you have inspired me! :D
Edit to add: no need for the comment: just shut up and do it! Last I checked everyone is entitled to have and voice their opinions!
Thank you for accepting the challenge! I can't wait to see your replacement. You don't need to be an expert, I'm not one either.
(Also, sorry, got frustrated. You are entitled to your own opinion, but if you (in general) make a claim, you should at least be able to support your point with a rebuttal.)
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Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
As I hear it, the worldbuilding in 4e was actually pretty stellar. They actually explained the Forgotten Realms in a way that got people excited to play there. Considering that in 5e they kinda completely forgot to do any worldbuilding at all until they released SCAG, and then SCAG was...not good...I gotta wonder why people bagged on 4e so hard.
Fluff isn't bones.
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"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
I actually prefer “lore” or something to “fluff.” Fluff often has a less than favorable connotation to it. To many the lore is as important or more so than mechanics, so I try not to denigrate it. Besides, somebody worked hird on it.
Okay, I'm going to repeat my challenge, but rephrase it a bit for those who have misunderstood or purposefully twisted it.
If you have argued against making any of the suggested classes be a class in 5e (Witch, Shaman, Psion, Magus, Warlord, etc) claiming that they would work better as a subclass for any class, stop arguing against making those classes until you have something to support your argument. Go and design a Shaman Cleric Subclass or Magus Fighter Subclass, or whatever you have suggested these ideas would work better as than a full class. You know who you are, and we know who you are. Until then, I reserve the right to ignore every argument you make against having these classes and point out that you haven't done your part. Your argument is void until you prove it.
My memory of 4e is fuzzy, but it was my introduction to D&D and it's a bit hard to explain. I guess the easiest way to explain it is if you were to take mechanics from a video game such as WoW, and translated them into pen and paper, with all the bloat that comes with having every ability assigned to your toolbar in an MMO. That was one of the reasons why my friends who came from 3e hated 4e; the other reason was because homebrew was essentially a nightmare; imagine having to come up with a minimum of 3 vancian spells to choose from for just about every single level a character has, for 30 levels.
I'm sure I'm doing a disservice to the game, there is more to it than that, but that's pretty much what I remember from it.
My memory of 4e is fuzzy, but it was my introduction to D&D and it's a bit hard to explain. I guess the easiest way to explain it is if you were to take mechanics from a video game such as WoW, and translated them into pen and paper, with all the bloat that comes with having every ability assigned to your toolbar in an MMO. That was one of the reasons why my friends who came from 3e hated 4e; the other reason was because homebrew was essentially a nightmare; imagine having to come up with a minimum of 3 vancian spells to choose from for just about every single level a character has, for 30 levels.
I'm sure I'm doing a disservice to the game, there is more to it than that, but that's pretty much what I remember from it.
Yeah. I get what you mean because I’ve played that edition extensively but it’s VERY different to any D&D edition before or after and not the easiest to explain. It definitely has more of a video game feel in regards to its combat structure though.
My memory of 4e is fuzzy, but it was my introduction to D&D and it's a bit hard to explain. I guess the easiest way to explain it is if you were to take mechanics from a video game such as WoW, and translated them into pen and paper, with all the bloat that comes with having every ability assigned to your toolbar in an MMO. That was one of the reasons why my friends who came from 3e hated 4e; the other reason was because homebrew was essentially a nightmare; imagine having to come up with a minimum of 3 vancian spells to choose from for just about every single level a character has, for 30 levels.
I'm sure I'm doing a disservice to the game, there is more to it than that, but that's pretty much what I remember from it.
Yeah. I get what you mean because I’ve played that edition extensively but it’s VERY different to any D&D edition before or after and not the easiest to explain. It definitely has more of a video game feel in regards to its combat structure though.
Yeah, I just had a look at the old player's handbook and basically there's just 1 table that outlines how every class progresses. That and, while I did enjoy the lore and the worldbuilding, there were elements that were *significantly* dumbed down. Anyone ever think the alignment system was simplistic and dumb? Imagine if it were even simpler and dumber than it is right now...
I actually prefer “lore” or something to “fluff.” Fluff often has a less than favorable connotation to it. To many the lore is as important or more so than mechanics, so I try not to denigrate it. Besides, somebody worked hird on it.
Sorry about that, it's wargamer speech. Anything that isn't rules is fluff.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
My memory of 4e is fuzzy, but it was my introduction to D&D and it's a bit hard to explain. I guess the easiest way to explain it is if you were to take mechanics from a video game such as WoW, and translated them into pen and paper, with all the bloat that comes with having every ability assigned to your toolbar in an MMO. That was one of the reasons why my friends who came from 3e hated 4e; the other reason was because homebrew was essentially a nightmare; imagine having to come up with a minimum of 3 vancian spells to choose from for just about every single level a character has, for 30 levels.
I'm sure I'm doing a disservice to the game, there is more to it than that, but that's pretty much what I remember from it.
Yeah. I get what you mean because I’ve played that edition extensively but it’s VERY different to any D&D edition before or after and not the easiest to explain. It definitely has more of a video game feel in regards to its combat structure though.
Yeah, I just had a look at the old player's handbook and basically there's just 1 table that outlines how every class progresses. That and, while I did enjoy the lore and the worldbuilding, there were elements that were *significantly* dumbed down. Anyone ever think the alignment system was simplistic and dumb? Imagine if it were even simpler and dumber than it is right now...
Yeah. I didn’t hate the way Alignment was handled but I also couldn’t really wrap my mind around why it was handled that way either. That was one of the things we house ruled out.
The lore of 4e was a lot of fun to read though, especially the Dawn War lore. Though I’ve always been a big fan of creation and religion myths and stories. Any game that has cool gods and cool creation lore tends to intrigue me. I was also a fan of the primal spirits lore too.
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"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup."
Hey, Goodbovine, JoeltheWalrus, you're making the Warlord, right? I thought of an ability they could have, maybe as a Tactic or feature a subclass gets, or the base class gets. Something along the lines of giving extra reactions to their allies, an amount of times a day equal to the warlord's Intelligence modifier. Would this help with anything?
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Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Hey, Goodbovine, JoeltheWalrus, you're making the Warlord, right? I thought of an ability they could have, maybe as a Tactic or feature a subclass gets, or the base class gets. Something along the lines of giving extra reactions to their allies, an amount of times a day equal to the warlord's Intelligence modifier. Would this help with anything?
Sure, I'll add that to a list of ideas. I also, however, need to go to sleep. I will continue work next morning.
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A fool pulls the leaves. A brute chops the trunk. A sage digs the roots.
So, in the thread, I changed the Jinx feature to a Magic Charm (name still fluid), and have split it into 3 types. I am currently developing the charms, and could use some help with that in the morning.
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Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
As I hear it, the worldbuilding in 4e was actually pretty stellar. They actually explained the Forgotten Realms in a way that got people excited to play there. Considering that in 5e they kinda completely forgot to do any worldbuilding at all until they released SCAG, and then SCAG was...not good...I gotta wonder why people bagged on 4e so hard.
Please do not contact or message me.
The three common complains I’ve seen have been the massive change to established lore/adding many new things, the greater emphasis on combat with how the classes and powers were structured, and how quickly one could become a god (especially since most of the epic destiny options basically made you immortal and god tier). The system is very clunky and can be a pain to balance but I and my group still found it fun. Heck, the move to 5e after the 4e builder was taken offline was split our group as far as whether they wanted to continue or jump ship to Pathfinder. I had played some 5e before the shift so was fine.
I was actually pleasantly surprised to see that the EGtW book used a some of the gods from the 4e pantheon that was left behind in the switch like Zehir.
"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup."
Characters for Tenebris Sine Fine
RoughCoronet's Greater Wills
I liked 4th edition, but its market performance was evidence for the limits on how much change players were willing to accept.
Thank you for accepting the challenge! I can't wait to see your replacement. You don't need to be an expert, I'm not one either.
(Also, sorry, got frustrated. You are entitled to your own opinion, but if you (in general) make a claim, you should at least be able to support your point with a rebuttal.)
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Fluff isn't bones.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
I actually prefer “lore” or something to “fluff.” Fluff often has a less than favorable connotation to it. To many the lore is as important or more so than mechanics, so I try not to denigrate it. Besides, somebody worked hird on it.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
Okay, I'm going to repeat my challenge, but rephrase it a bit for those who have misunderstood or purposefully twisted it.
If you have argued against making any of the suggested classes be a class in 5e (Witch, Shaman, Psion, Magus, Warlord, etc) claiming that they would work better as a subclass for any class, stop arguing against making those classes until you have something to support your argument. Go and design a Shaman Cleric Subclass or Magus Fighter Subclass, or whatever you have suggested these ideas would work better as than a full class. You know who you are, and we know who you are. Until then, I reserve the right to ignore every argument you make against having these classes and point out that you haven't done your part. Your argument is void until you prove it.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
(Also, here's the link to my Magus class thread, so we don't have to further derail this one.)
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
My memory of 4e is fuzzy, but it was my introduction to D&D and it's a bit hard to explain. I guess the easiest way to explain it is if you were to take mechanics from a video game such as WoW, and translated them into pen and paper, with all the bloat that comes with having every ability assigned to your toolbar in an MMO. That was one of the reasons why my friends who came from 3e hated 4e; the other reason was because homebrew was essentially a nightmare; imagine having to come up with a minimum of 3 vancian spells to choose from for just about every single level a character has, for 30 levels.
I'm sure I'm doing a disservice to the game, there is more to it than that, but that's pretty much what I remember from it.
I was just about to take a look, but I am Knackered so I am gonna check in the morning when my brain is working properly.
“I will take responsibility for what I have done. [...] If must fall, I will rise each time a better man.” ― Brandon Sanderson, Oathbringer.
Hey, where are we at with that “Occultist” anyway? That was looking interesting.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
Yeah. I get what you mean because I’ve played that edition extensively but it’s VERY different to any D&D edition before or after and not the easiest to explain. It definitely has more of a video game feel in regards to its combat structure though.
"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup."
Characters for Tenebris Sine Fine
RoughCoronet's Greater Wills
Still working on it, will revise it a bit more today. I'll make a thread for that, too.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Yeah, I just had a look at the old player's handbook and basically there's just 1 table that outlines how every class progresses. That and, while I did enjoy the lore and the worldbuilding, there were elements that were *significantly* dumbed down. Anyone ever think the alignment system was simplistic and dumb? Imagine if it were even simpler and dumber than it is right now...
Sorry about that, it's wargamer speech. Anything that isn't rules is fluff.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
Yeah. I didn’t hate the way Alignment was handled but I also couldn’t really wrap my mind around why it was handled that way either. That was one of the things we house ruled out.
The lore of 4e was a lot of fun to read though, especially the Dawn War lore. Though I’ve always been a big fan of creation and religion myths and stories. Any game that has cool gods and cool creation lore tends to intrigue me. I was also a fan of the primal spirits lore too.
"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup."
Characters for Tenebris Sine Fine
RoughCoronet's Greater Wills
Hey, Goodbovine, JoeltheWalrus, you're making the Warlord, right? I thought of an ability they could have, maybe as a Tactic or feature a subclass gets, or the base class gets. Something along the lines of giving extra reactions to their allies, an amount of times a day equal to the warlord's Intelligence modifier. Would this help with anything?
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Sure, I'll add that to a list of ideas. I also, however, need to go to sleep. I will continue work next morning.
A fool pulls the leaves. A brute chops the trunk. A sage digs the roots.
My Improved Lineage System
Okay, here's the thread for the Occultist. I'll probably get back to do more later today or early tomorrow.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
So, in the thread, I changed the Jinx feature to a Magic Charm (name still fluid), and have split it into 3 types. I am currently developing the charms, and could use some help with that in the morning.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms