Some us actually believe that thousands of pages of rules, stat blocks, and lore actually have a purpose, and bring meaning to the game. Others, feel that rules just get in the way of the game. Tell me, when you play chess, do you allow your Knights to move 4 spaces forward, and 3 spaces sideways, because it makes the game more "fun"?
T-Rex cannot use both attacks against one target. This was already covered above. The T-Rex used its tail attack and did not Grapple. Like the others, you go to the No Fun Zone! Away with you! 🐓💨👎🏼🎲
The T-Rex would have used its Bite instead of the Tail attack, because the Bite is its primary attack. Not only does your Bard take more damage, the Bard is Grappled, AND subject to the Restrained Condition, until the Bard's turn comes up. The Bard then can make an attempt to break the Grapple, DC 17. That also takes an Action.
So, to recap:
Turn 1: Your Bard can't cast a Cantrip AND attempt to Hide on the same turn. But let's give you that one, since the T-Rex found the Bard anyway.
Turn 2: You Bard has to burn a turn attempting to escape the Grapple (DC17), which is the Bard's ACTION that turn, regardless of success or not. Now, you COULD say that the Bard somehow, while in the jaws of the T-Rex, manages to cast the Hypnotic Pattern spell, but that spell is a SM spell so the Bard had better have at least one hand free to access the Mat Components or a Spell Focus, PLUS do the Somatic portion of the spell. So, let's say your char pulls that off. Now, the question is does an Incapacitated creature release anything in its jaws? It can't take an Action or Reaction, but it is pure DM fiat to figure out if the Bard gets out scott free from the jaws, or still has to beat a DC 17 on escaping the Grapple.
Now, my players are experienced enough and good enough players to know such a thing is utterly ridiculous to even consider.
Where in the OP was a grapple? It hit her with its tail, not its jaws.
Because any DM worth their salt would have had the T-Rex attack with the option that does more damage and has more effect aka the Bite option. Even an instinctual animal (T-Rex Int = 2) would Bite before using a Tail attack , ESPECIALLY against a solo target.
Should have moved to lore, as advised, since this is after all epic boasting. If you lay out an encounter and the rulings and action economy are way off (which they are, I'm just saying "cool story, dude" in my earlier applause) you should expect some criticism on a forum whose purpose is to discuss the rules of a game.
I'll say the spirit of the flawed play behind the story is really survival tactics. Living to possibly fight another day or avoid this T-Rex's domain next time she's around (and noting this is as you showed a sparring match) isn't "beating." Your audience was expecting something different.
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Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Know your audience. As was mentioned, this story would have been received more in the light you anticipated over in the Lore forum.
It would have been viciously eviscerated in the rules forum. (Oh yeah, this was nothing. This was a few folks pointing out the RAW mistakes in a forthright, but nice way. Over there, in the rules forum, I saw a flame war almost erupt over the concept of whether or not longstrider would increase a shark’s “walking speed” from 0 ft. to 10 ft. Like, alert level orange.)
Here, in this forum, it got a good solid technical critique and a few cases of “cool story, but....” It is what it is. Like I said, know your audience. Or, in other words: “location, location, location.”
Ok, ok. Good grief. It wasn't played by the book. I already admitted that over and over and over again. She was given a lot of advantages that don't follow the rules. It was just a fun encounter that had a funny result that we thought people would enjoy, rather than getting pounced on. Now I know what the audience is all about. Yikes. where do I pay my rules fine? Lol. Find joy people! I wish you well.
And that's why people aren't terribly impressed. It's a mildly amusing story, but because the character wasn't playing by the actual rules, it isn't an impressive accomplishment.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Well, I had a swashbuckler singlehandedly defeat a triceratops, thusly...
The party was drugged/captured and taken into an underground gladiatorial ring. Our magical items were taken from us but were replaced with non-magical equivalents. We had to go into a training round so they could test our skills. First the paladin and I had to fight two tigers. He was in plate with longsword and shield, I in leather armor with rapier and a very dashing plumed hat. Never forget the hat. I hit the paw of the tiger attacking me so it could not take me. Paladin missed, then got hit twice and raked. Paladin down. I finished off both tigers.
Paladin is disgraced and was sent back to training. I advanced. Fought a few more opponents, making sure I was dazzling and played to the crowd, especially to the ladies.
Final fight, I enter the ring and the large gates open. Triceratops. Oh crap. DM asks if I am wearing anything colorful - and I point to my miniature which has bright red silk blouse under leather armor and a large red plume on hat (Never forget the hat). Triceratops looks, sees me and comes charging. I wait until the last minute and dodge away, seeing how it attacks. Did this twice more til I figured I had the pattern and then stepped up on it's horn when it attacked, flipping onto it's back. All with disadvantage on rolls. Once there, one shot with the rapier into it's head did it.
Best part was the roar of the crowd, and the paladin player complimenting me. He said, "I would have stood there, swung once, been plowed, and probably trampled. Great job!"
And Round Two of the dinosaur wars vs. actual mechanics begin.
Like the first anecdote, I'm sure people are going to question the action economy and mechanics here. The dodge at the last minutes sounds like your DM letting you bonus action ready cunning action as a reaction (assuming you had initiative?). The identifying weaknesses seems like something out of the inquisitive and the horn judo flip thing, your DM let that go I think because it sort of sounded cool? What sort of sneak attack damage (more in the Inquisitive domain again) gets your rolling in the ~95 hp damage category?
It's a good story, and a DM may want to hand wave some events for the bolstering of character image etc., but the account seems to lean more toward a generous DM than an even playing field between the PC and the tri-tops. I'm an advocate for fair treatment of dinosaurs in game.
It's bull-baiting, only with a triceratops. Which might work in 'reality' but doesn't work according to D&D RAW. Technically it's possible to ready a move for when a creature charges and try to get out of the way, but D&D doesn't have turning rules and the triceratops has move 50', so it probably chases you down.
Right, narratively plausible in terms of what someone could do against a charging bull (I dunno if the learned folks have determined with a TriTops was a charger or more a head butter when standing ground, but it fits some popular conceptions), What I'm getting at is that this isn't so much a lvl x swashbuckler v. CR 5 dinosaur but a players imagination agreeing with a DM's generosity for the spirit of the game. Win by Rule of Cool, which is fine for war stories but also it's more "what was allowed to happen in the game" than what the character on paper necessarily did.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Brutal crowd. A good DM always wants to give his players a fair chance to live, as well as a FUN game. Sometimes stuff happens that well just wouldn't be very fun for the group or the player, so some DM's change it. Others go Robert Jordon red wedding on the party. People play D&D over computer games because you can use your imagination and think, the rules are great, but lets face it they just don't always make sense. Even if you have a skill to do something you often have to roll to do it, in the case above, he had disadvantage with every role. The DM decided to be realistic and the player got lucky. A bull charges me, I don't have training that would let me jump on his back, but I can still try. Saying you can't even try is dumb.
The original poster really just came here to give props to a character and make her(?) feel good.
Now if the T-Rex had rolled a 1 and failed his save against Thunderclap and fallen backwards off a cliff dying, that would truly have been a legendary ballad for the bards to sing of.
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48
Retired Military plenty of time to play just about any night.
If you're planning on bragging about what your character did, it should either actually be legal within the rules, or be written up as an entertaining enough story that no-one cares about the legality. You could certainly tell an entertaining story about bullbaiting with a triceratops, but it should be more than a bald description of what happened.
Yep, I genuinely believe the triceratops antidote is a joke trying to get people riled up about the ridiculousness of it, as happened with the first post. I’m not gonna fall for it. I’m not going to nitpick about the jumping on the back thing, as I’d allow that with modified grappling, and the dodge action bit makes some sense, but the fact remains that it was one-shot with a rapier. Even if Sneak Attack was granted, that’s not possible.
Yep, I genuinely believe the triceratops antidote is a joke trying to get people riled up about the ridiculousness of it, as happened with the first post. I’m not gonna fall for it. I’m not going to nitpick about the jumping on the back thing, as I’d allow that with modified grappling, and the dodge action bit makes some sense, but the fact remains that it was one-shot with a rapier. Even if Sneak Attack was granted, that’s not possible.
Sneak Attack, Natural 20, Max Damage, depends on the rapier, if the rolls were lucky as hell.... "you stab into a gash left over from a previous fight..." Sometimes you just need to reward the Dice Gods lol
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48
Retired Military plenty of time to play just about any night.
I probably should mention that this was 3E and we had things like called shots, tumbling and weapon and non-weapon proficiencies. I had a high Dex so I got initiative regularly, every time in this case. So initiative was rolled, I went first and delayed my action waiting to see what the triceratops did. He charged and lowered his horn to hook me. I dodged. Rinse and repeat. Last time I jumped on his horn and his upward thrust lifted me in the air, fortunately on his back. Called short. Rolled the d20 at -4, got the hit anyway.
It was literally decades ago, so while I think it was 100% in the rules, I may be wrong. I know it was definitely within our party rules.
Some us actually believe that thousands of pages of rules, stat blocks, and lore actually have a purpose, and bring meaning to the game. Others, feel that rules just get in the way of the game. Tell me, when you play chess, do you allow your Knights to move 4 spaces forward, and 3 spaces sideways, because it makes the game more "fun"?
That is great if you all have fun playing inside the rules and that makes it fun, but that isn't a requirement for everyone. To me the fantasy element is more important and to my party as well. So if someone does something really cool, as long as it is somewhat plausible within fantasy rules, I will probably allow it to be rolled.
I probably should mention that this was 3E and we had things like called shots, tumbling and weapon and non-weapon proficiencies. I had a high Dex so I got initiative regularly, every time in this case. So initiative was rolled, I went first and delayed my action waiting to see what the triceratops did. He charged and lowered his horn to hook me. I dodged. Rinse and repeat. Last time I jumped on his horn and his upward thrust lifted me in the air, fortunately on his back. Called short. Rolled the d20 at -4, got the hit anyway.
It was literally decades ago, so while I think it was 100% in the rules, I may be wrong. I know it was definitely within our party rules.
Called shots weren't part of 3.0 or 3.5's official rules, though there were a lot of house rules and third party rules for them. But the rest of it checks out.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
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Some us actually believe that thousands of pages of rules, stat blocks, and lore actually have a purpose, and bring meaning to the game. Others, feel that rules just get in the way of the game. Tell me, when you play chess, do you allow your Knights to move 4 spaces forward, and 3 spaces sideways, because it makes the game more "fun"?
Because any DM worth their salt would have had the T-Rex attack with the option that does more damage and has more effect aka the Bite option. Even an instinctual animal (T-Rex Int = 2) would Bite before using a Tail attack , ESPECIALLY against a solo target.
Should have moved to lore, as advised, since this is after all epic boasting. If you lay out an encounter and the rulings and action economy are way off (which they are, I'm just saying "cool story, dude" in my earlier applause) you should expect some criticism on a forum whose purpose is to discuss the rules of a game.
I'll say the spirit of the flawed play behind the story is really survival tactics. Living to possibly fight another day or avoid this T-Rex's domain next time she's around (and noting this is as you showed a sparring match) isn't "beating." Your audience was expecting something different.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Know your audience. As was mentioned, this story would have been received more in the light you anticipated over in the Lore forum.
It would have been viciously eviscerated in the rules forum. (Oh yeah, this was nothing. This was a few folks pointing out the RAW mistakes in a forthright, but nice way. Over there, in the rules forum, I saw a flame war almost erupt over the concept of whether or not longstrider would increase a shark’s “walking speed” from 0 ft. to 10 ft. Like, alert level orange.)
Here, in this forum, it got a good solid technical critique and a few cases of “cool story, but....” It is what it is. Like I said, know your audience. Or, in other words: “location, location, location.”
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
If it were up to me I say we let Seatria Wood Dancer live!! Huzzah!!!
Hypnotic Pattern is a beautiful thing.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
Ok, ok. Good grief. It wasn't played by the book. I already admitted that over and over and over again. She was given a lot of advantages that don't follow the rules. It was just a fun encounter that had a funny result that we thought people would enjoy, rather than getting pounced on. Now I know what the audience is all about. Yikes. where do I pay my rules fine? Lol. Find joy people! I wish you well.
And that's why people aren't terribly impressed. It's a mildly amusing story, but because the character wasn't playing by the actual rules, it isn't an impressive accomplishment.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Well, I had a swashbuckler singlehandedly defeat a triceratops, thusly...
The party was drugged/captured and taken into an underground gladiatorial ring. Our magical items were taken from us but were replaced with non-magical equivalents. We had to go into a training round so they could test our skills. First the paladin and I had to fight two tigers. He was in plate with longsword and shield, I in leather armor with rapier and a very dashing plumed hat. Never forget the hat. I hit the paw of the tiger attacking me so it could not take me. Paladin missed, then got hit twice and raked. Paladin down. I finished off both tigers.
Paladin is disgraced and was sent back to training. I advanced. Fought a few more opponents, making sure I was dazzling and played to the crowd, especially to the ladies.
Final fight, I enter the ring and the large gates open. Triceratops. Oh crap. DM asks if I am wearing anything colorful - and I point to my miniature which has bright red silk blouse under leather armor and a large red plume on hat (Never forget the hat). Triceratops looks, sees me and comes charging. I wait until the last minute and dodge away, seeing how it attacks. Did this twice more til I figured I had the pattern and then stepped up on it's horn when it attacked, flipping onto it's back. All with disadvantage on rolls. Once there, one shot with the rapier into it's head did it.
Best part was the roar of the crowd, and the paladin player complimenting me. He said, "I would have stood there, swung once, been plowed, and probably trampled. Great job!"
And Round Two of the dinosaur wars vs. actual mechanics begin.
Like the first anecdote, I'm sure people are going to question the action economy and mechanics here. The dodge at the last minutes sounds like your DM letting you bonus action ready cunning action as a reaction (assuming you had initiative?). The identifying weaknesses seems like something out of the inquisitive and the horn judo flip thing, your DM let that go I think because it sort of sounded cool? What sort of sneak attack damage (more in the Inquisitive domain again) gets your rolling in the ~95 hp damage category?
It's a good story, and a DM may want to hand wave some events for the bolstering of character image etc., but the account seems to lean more toward a generous DM than an even playing field between the PC and the tri-tops. I'm an advocate for fair treatment of dinosaurs in game.
Oh the Tiger paw strike, what?
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
It's bull-baiting, only with a triceratops. Which might work in 'reality' but doesn't work according to D&D RAW. Technically it's possible to ready a move for when a creature charges and try to get out of the way, but D&D doesn't have turning rules and the triceratops has move 50', so it probably chases you down.
And the closest thing to jumping on a creature's back and riding it in D&D's rules is grappling.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Right, narratively plausible in terms of what someone could do against a charging bull (I dunno if the learned folks have determined with a TriTops was a charger or more a head butter when standing ground, but it fits some popular conceptions), What I'm getting at is that this isn't so much a lvl x swashbuckler v. CR 5 dinosaur but a players imagination agreeing with a DM's generosity for the spirit of the game. Win by Rule of Cool, which is fine for war stories but also it's more "what was allowed to happen in the game" than what the character on paper necessarily did.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Brutal crowd. A good DM always wants to give his players a fair chance to live, as well as a FUN game. Sometimes stuff happens that well just wouldn't be very fun for the group or the player, so some DM's change it. Others go Robert Jordon red wedding on the party. People play D&D over computer games because you can use your imagination and think, the rules are great, but lets face it they just don't always make sense. Even if you have a skill to do something you often have to roll to do it, in the case above, he had disadvantage with every role. The DM decided to be realistic and the player got lucky. A bull charges me, I don't have training that would let me jump on his back, but I can still try. Saying you can't even try is dumb.
The original poster really just came here to give props to a character and make her(?) feel good.
Now if the T-Rex had rolled a 1 and failed his save against Thunderclap and fallen backwards off a cliff dying, that would truly have been a legendary ballad for the bards to sing of.
48
Retired Military plenty of time to play just about any night.
If you're planning on bragging about what your character did, it should either actually be legal within the rules, or be written up as an entertaining enough story that no-one cares about the legality. You could certainly tell an entertaining story about bullbaiting with a triceratops, but it should be more than a bald description of what happened.
Yep, I genuinely believe the triceratops antidote is a joke trying to get people riled up about the ridiculousness of it, as happened with the first post. I’m not gonna fall for it. I’m not going to nitpick about the jumping on the back thing, as I’d allow that with modified grappling, and the dodge action bit makes some sense, but the fact remains that it was one-shot with a rapier. Even if Sneak Attack was granted, that’s not possible.
Wizard (Gandalf) of the Tolkien Club
Sneak Attack, Natural 20, Max Damage, depends on the rapier, if the rolls were lucky as hell.... "you stab into a gash left over from a previous fight..." Sometimes you just need to reward the Dice Gods lol
48
Retired Military plenty of time to play just about any night.
I probably should mention that this was 3E and we had things like called shots, tumbling and weapon and non-weapon proficiencies. I had a high Dex so I got initiative regularly, every time in this case. So initiative was rolled, I went first and delayed my action waiting to see what the triceratops did. He charged and lowered his horn to hook me. I dodged. Rinse and repeat. Last time I jumped on his horn and his upward thrust lifted me in the air, fortunately on his back. Called short. Rolled the d20 at -4, got the hit anyway.
It was literally decades ago, so while I think it was 100% in the rules, I may be wrong. I know it was definitely within our party rules.
That is great if you all have fun playing inside the rules and that makes it fun, but that isn't a requirement for everyone. To me the fantasy element is more important and to my party as well. So if someone does something really cool, as long as it is somewhat plausible within fantasy rules, I will probably allow it to be rolled.
Called shots weren't part of 3.0 or 3.5's official rules, though there were a lot of house rules and third party rules for them. But the rest of it checks out.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.