For us players, class restrictions often prevent us from creating a dream character that would be the bane of every DM, and for the DM it also prevents them from creating NPC with unique abilities that should destroy our players easily.
Stamping out this kind of adversarial power-gaming nonsense seems like a great reason not to allow homebrew classes, tbh
DMs and players should not be enemies
Thanks for highlighting this. Let's also note that the DM is in no way limited by class restrictions when designing an NPC. In fact the rules actually discourage such practices in favor of following monster design rules, that's why you find stock NPCs in the same places you find monsters in the rules.
@weaver74, a DM always has license to build challenges for the PCs. "Ambushing" the DM with broken homebrew or otherwise making DM's worst nightmares is bad faith playing on the players' part and counter to the actual fun of the game. The challenge posed by an encounter is not adversarial. Rather the DM is facilitating this concept called an "adventure."
Professionals would translate more modern professions into setting appropriate equivalents. They'd focus on skills over combat, more so than even Rogues or Bards. The class itself wouldn't have much shared content, with most of the mechanics and flavor in the subclasses, including:
As a practical issue, D&D is not built for non-combatant PCs; if you want skill monkeys without the baggage of sneak attack or spellcasting, that's probably a fighter subclass.
But now you come along and want to design a whole new class. I got news for you, your name is not Matt Mercer, Gary Gygax, or Dave Arneson. If you are the new guy that is just as good as them, get a job working for WoTC. Or start your own company.
Easier said than done. I may or may not be as good as the names you dropped, but that’s irrelevant. I’m still designing my own Psionicist class for 5e, and it would be easier with the tools available here for the exact reasons you mentioned elsewhere in your post. Balance.
Your response to the name dropping made me laugh out loud.
Because there are enough classes and subclasses to cover all fantasy eventualities :-)
I entirely disagree, their could be potentially thousands or even more viable, balanced, unique and both mechanically and narratively interesting classes. Furthermore, each homebrew subclass that was meant to be it's own class could gain more individuality for being able to be it's own class.
Because there are enough classes and subclasses to cover all fantasy eventualities :-)
I entirely disagree, their could be potentially thousands or even more viable, balanced, unique and both mechanically and narratively interesting classes. Furthermore, each homebrew subclass that was meant to be it's own class could gain more individuality for being able to be it's own class.
I think the emoji at the end implies some irony you're completely missing in your response.
And "thousands" of classes? That sort of breaks the idea of a game designed and played around the idea of player character classes in the first place.
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Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
While I think that 'thousands of classes' is a ludicrous idea, I do think that there is the potential for a few more classes to be added which fill different combinations of mechanical and thematic roles.
Being able to homebrew them and have them function on DnD Beyond would be amazing.
While I think that 'thousands of classes' is a ludicrous idea, I do think that there is the potential for a few more classes to be added which fill different combinations of mechanical and thematic roles.
Being able to homebrew them and have them function on DnD Beyond would be amazing.
I genuinely believe that spanning at least a century at the minimum that a thousand new classes could be made that are all distinct and viable both mechanically and for roleplaying.
DnD beyond has amazing features and tons of homebrew options. But for some reason, we can't create homebrew classes. Does anyone know why?
Probably because of the complexity of the coding that goes into the character sheet.
Trying to accommodate everyone's custom Class on top of that would probably prove entirely too difficult.
This is pretty much why, to my understanding, why they stopped adding all the Unearthed Arcana classes.
I 99% agree.
I recently started making a Character Builder in Xcell, and it's been a lot of fun, but it's both time consuming and surprisingly nebulous... but that's with the goal of making something more complete than DDB, without a date to ship in mind, nor user settings.
Contrast that with DDB who had a date to ship and do have user data. As you mentioned, some complexity is more than their system can handle. It isn't that their guys aren't smart enough so much as it's antithetical to the way DDB was built. A system can be made "extremely knobby" which makes adding the changes in TCE and custom classes really easy, but that needs to be the goal from the start. In that case, practically everything is a feat and some classes and levels turn them on... but that isn't DDB. DDB has each class pre-built as its own thing, and that's part of the sites skeleton.
Long story short, it wouldn't be too hard if they re-made everything from the ground up... but they can't do that without costing paying customer's their characters.
I feel that we should be able to create homebrew classes. It will probably not be used as much as there’s a lot more work that goes into making a whole class than just a subclass (especially if you’re making subclasses for that class). But I see it bringing some good ideas into the system which were previously locked into a few fan-made setting books.
Besides, if Matt Mercer can have the blood hunter we can have our own weird little classes.
Yeah, a fighter subclass would work. There's even the unarmed fighting style now. Just have the subclass give some extra benefits, like making the unarmed strikes magical at a certain level.
Yeah, a fighter subclass would work. There's even the unarmed fighting style now. Just have the subclass give some extra benefits, like making the unarmed strikes magical at a certain level.
7th would be the level for that. And I think maybe at 3rd level they would gain a bonus action unarmed strike too probably. I haven’t figured out the rest yet, but I’m also not actually “working” on it either.
Keep in mind that this wouldn't just entail putting together all the homebrew tools necessary, they'd also have to make the character sheet flexible enough to support literally anything you can dream up. As much as I love homebrew, it's a nightmare I wouldn't wish on anyone. It would either need to be extremely complex or end up being not much better than a PDF.
We've had threads before about what archetypes are missing and there's just not much left out there. IMO psion is really the only one with high potential to both have good reason for new mechanics and represents a truly different concept, although I understand why some might feel it could just be a wizard subclass. Shaman is one other I might like to see, but it overlaps with druid too much to really justify, and just having Wild Shape do things other than Wild Shape is a pretty established pattern by now.
I don't know. I'm pretty okay with what we have. I kind of like having the challenge of fitting a concept into the existing classes as a subclass. I never would have considered a swordmage as an artificer, but I went down that road when creating my own version because it's the best half-caster template and came out the other side with a concept that I really liked. It seems counterintuitive, but a certain amount of restrictions and limitations can actually be good for creativity.
Honestly, they could just make a barebones "core class generator" - and leave the wild stuff to being manual tracking - would allow you to automate the same things you automate for subclasses, without needing to interact with the more admin-level stuff - though there would be a hurdle for custom spell lists and spell limits (ie things like the warlock vs full/half casters) - though that would be slightly out of character for D&D Beyond. (simple stuff like hit dice would be feasible too)
The core components of a class that you'd need that aren't currently available for subclasses are:
Hit die type.
Multiclassing requirements and effects.
A way to assign prerequisites to feature (this is how you implement subclasses: a bunch of features that require the subclass)
Starting gear, auto build templates, etc.
If they just created some blank classes (d6, d8, d10, d12) you could do most of what people want for classes by creating subclasses of the generic class, but #2 and #3 do look like new dev.
Because there are enough classes and subclasses to cover all fantasy eventualities :-)
No sir. Just, no. In fact that are serious gaps in the core class selection that can't effectively be handled with subclasses to the fluff and lore trappings that the various class have.
Because there are enough classes and subclasses to cover all fantasy eventualities :-)
No sir. Just, no. In fact that are serious gaps in the core class selection that can't effectively be handled with subclasses to the fluff and lore trappings that the various class have.
Could rephrase it as: there are enough classes and subclasses to cover all fantasy eventualities.... badly, with a ton of flavouring, handwaving things which don't make sense, and having to plead your DM for tweaks.
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Thanks for highlighting this. Let's also note that the DM is in no way limited by class restrictions when designing an NPC. In fact the rules actually discourage such practices in favor of following monster design rules, that's why you find stock NPCs in the same places you find monsters in the rules.
@weaver74, a DM always has license to build challenges for the PCs. "Ambushing" the DM with broken homebrew or otherwise making DM's worst nightmares is bad faith playing on the players' part and counter to the actual fun of the game. The challenge posed by an encounter is not adversarial. Rather the DM is facilitating this concept called an "adventure."
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
As a practical issue, D&D is not built for non-combatant PCs; if you want skill monkeys without the baggage of sneak attack or spellcasting, that's probably a fighter subclass.
Your response to the name dropping made me laugh out loud.
I entirely disagree, their could be potentially thousands or even more viable, balanced, unique and both mechanically and narratively interesting classes. Furthermore, each homebrew subclass that was meant to be it's own class could gain more individuality for being able to be it's own class.
I think the emoji at the end implies some irony you're completely missing in your response.
And "thousands" of classes? That sort of breaks the idea of a game designed and played around the idea of player character classes in the first place.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
While I think that 'thousands of classes' is a ludicrous idea, I do think that there is the potential for a few more classes to be added which fill different combinations of mechanical and thematic roles.
Being able to homebrew them and have them function on DnD Beyond would be amazing.
I genuinely believe that spanning at least a century at the minimum that a thousand new classes could be made that are all distinct and viable both mechanically and for roleplaying.
Probably because of the complexity of the coding that goes into the character sheet.
Trying to accommodate everyone's custom Class on top of that would probably prove entirely too difficult.
This is pretty much why, to my understanding, why they stopped adding all the Unearthed Arcana classes.
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I 99% agree.
I recently started making a Character Builder in Xcell, and it's been a lot of fun, but it's both time consuming and surprisingly nebulous... but that's with the goal of making something more complete than DDB, without a date to ship in mind, nor user settings.
Contrast that with DDB who had a date to ship and do have user data. As you mentioned, some complexity is more than their system can handle. It isn't that their guys aren't smart enough so much as it's antithetical to the way DDB was built. A system can be made "extremely knobby" which makes adding the changes in TCE and custom classes really easy, but that needs to be the goal from the start. In that case, practically everything is a feat and some classes and levels turn them on... but that isn't DDB. DDB has each class pre-built as its own thing, and that's part of the sites skeleton.
Long story short, it wouldn't be too hard if they re-made everything from the ground up... but they can't do that without costing paying customer's their characters.
I feel that we should be able to create homebrew classes. It will probably not be used as much as there’s a lot more work that goes into making a whole class than just a subclass (especially if you’re making subclasses for that class). But I see it bringing some good ideas into the system which were previously locked into a few fan-made setting books.
Besides, if Matt Mercer can have the blood hunter we can have our own weird little classes.
Question, what is so special about a Pugilist that you can't do it with a Fighter and/or Monk?
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Couldn’t that just be a fighter (or monk) subclass? Crap, I could write that over the weekend for ya.
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Yeah, I don't see anything there that needs a class. Barbarian is also an option.
Yeah, a fighter subclass would work. There's even the unarmed fighting style now. Just have the subclass give some extra benefits, like making the unarmed strikes magical at a certain level.
7th would be the level for that. And I think maybe at 3rd level they would gain a bonus action unarmed strike too probably. I haven’t figured out the rest yet, but I’m also not actually “working” on it either.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
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Keep in mind that this wouldn't just entail putting together all the homebrew tools necessary, they'd also have to make the character sheet flexible enough to support literally anything you can dream up. As much as I love homebrew, it's a nightmare I wouldn't wish on anyone. It would either need to be extremely complex or end up being not much better than a PDF.
We've had threads before about what archetypes are missing and there's just not much left out there. IMO psion is really the only one with high potential to both have good reason for new mechanics and represents a truly different concept, although I understand why some might feel it could just be a wizard subclass. Shaman is one other I might like to see, but it overlaps with druid too much to really justify, and just having Wild Shape do things other than Wild Shape is a pretty established pattern by now.
I don't know. I'm pretty okay with what we have. I kind of like having the challenge of fitting a concept into the existing classes as a subclass. I never would have considered a swordmage as an artificer, but I went down that road when creating my own version because it's the best half-caster template and came out the other side with a concept that I really liked. It seems counterintuitive, but a certain amount of restrictions and limitations can actually be good for creativity.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
Honestly, they could just make a barebones "core class generator" - and leave the wild stuff to being manual tracking - would allow you to automate the same things you automate for subclasses, without needing to interact with the more admin-level stuff - though there would be a hurdle for custom spell lists and spell limits (ie things like the warlock vs full/half casters) - though that would be slightly out of character for D&D Beyond. (simple stuff like hit dice would be feasible too)
The core components of a class that you'd need that aren't currently available for subclasses are:
If they just created some blank classes (d6, d8, d10, d12) you could do most of what people want for classes by creating subclasses of the generic class, but #2 and #3 do look like new dev.
No sir. Just, no. In fact that are serious gaps in the core class selection that can't effectively be handled with subclasses to the fluff and lore trappings that the various class have.
Could rephrase it as: there are enough classes and subclasses to cover all fantasy eventualities.... badly, with a ton of flavouring, handwaving things which don't make sense, and having to plead your DM for tweaks.