You can get similar numbers to 4k3 by rolling multiple characters -- on average, rolling 12 characters will result in your best character being about as good as an average 4k3 character.
Sure, roll 12 characters and pick the best one… or just roll one character using the better method.
I am a fan of point buy myself, but if my group ever rolled for stats we'd do it together. Not just for transparency, but because it's fun to experience the highs and lows together.
If trust is the issue at the table then it goes farther than stats. But there are ways to correct it.
1. Everyone rolls, one at a time, in front of everyone else.
2. DM rolls stats. Gives them to the players.
3. Let the untrusted roll first. Copy and paste stats for others.
4. Same as #3, but +1 each stat for others.
5. Untrusted is cursed session 1 and needs to undo curse. (NO remove curse) Plot.
When I was first playing in 1984... I may have "rolled" all 18s in an afternoon of trying.
My DM called me on it. I denied it. He let it pass. My Character was subject to EVERY random action that happened. Every random attack. There were omens that pointed to me as having been cursed. After several sessions I had to fight an Aleax, (Look it up). I won. My PC was in-service for a year and a day. PC was out of the campaign.
Honestly, I can sum up the results so you don't have to wade through it. The thread included a poll: 50% of people prefer rolling randomly no matter how poor the results might be. 39.7% said to use Point Buy, 23.5% liked the Standard Array, and 11.8% chose other, usually talking about different versions of the Standard Array.
When I see this poll I want to ask:
When you do roll for stats do you always keep the rolls even if they are terrible?
Most of the time the answer is "no" an rolling for stats becomes "I want to to roll better stats". I just do not like the inherent dishonesty with rolling for stats....like if you just want better stats just tell me and I am completely happy with doing an increased point buy for a more heroic feel.
But when people say they want it for random sake but then will let them use standard array or point buy if the rolls are terrible it kind of defeats the purpose of rolling.
Also I hate when one player has a 14 in their main stat vs one who has a 20. Even a 16 vs an 18 is big when you are considering its not JUST a +1 it can represent additional uses of class features (Bardic Inspiration, etc...), better AC, etc...
If everyone is more powerful its not hard to balance the game up.
If everyone is weaker its not hard to balance the game down.
If there is a lot stat discrepancy between players thats where it gets tough.
There are people who like "Hard Mode". They like the old school feel of how it was such a challenge to play certain classes, and that's hard to get if you have all good stats. So for people who like the extra challenge, 4d6, drop the lowest die, recorded in order. Take it and make a character based around your scores. These people like penalties, they feel that the harder things are, the sweeter the victory is when they win. I do see their point.
Myself, I'm not a hardcore kind of DM. I find that thanks to Bounced Accuracy and the rules for Action Economy, things are plenty challenging as is. I think Point Buy is the best system, because it's probably the most fair and balanced way to play what you want, but even Point Buy has drawbacks, and it needs to be made clear before the character generation stage what your rules will be for using it. I will allow only one 8, others DM's can do as they please, and from the poll at least, half those who voted like rolling randomly.
We rolled all at once when at the table. Now we use the Dice Maiden on Discord and !roll 6 4d6 d1 and take whatever we get. If there is a low roll someone doesn't like they can opt for a straight 3d6 roll and have to take it. And that's how one of our latest characters ended up with a 4... which he placed into Wisdom and it has been an amazing game on his gullibility and where it has lead us. Mostly it's just fun rolling together. The highs and the lows. I would like point buy, but they have limited it in this version enough that everything feels like it has mediocre stats. But I've played enough systems starting with my red box, that I can take pretty much system and be happy with it. The dice are a small part of what I am going to do in creating a character.
We rolled all at once when at the table. Now we use the Dice Maiden on Discord and !roll 6 4d6 d1 and take whatever we get. If there is a low roll someone doesn't like they can opt for a straight 3d6 roll and have to take it. And that's how one of our latest characters ended up with a 4... which he placed into Wisdom and it has been an amazing game on his gullibility and where it has lead us. Mostly it's just fun rolling together. The highs and the lows. I would like point buy, but they have limited it in this version enough that everything feels like it has mediocre stats. But I've played enough systems starting with my red box, that I can take pretty much system and be happy with it. The dice are a small part of what I am going to do in creating a character.
I do like the roll if it is played straight up....as intended. Especially if the whole table is in for it and know that there will be power divide between those who roll bad and those who roll good.
I personally do not like it as a DM because I know that inevitability it will cause some discord in the ranks and could lead to issues of "nah let me do it" with those with better stats. However, I know some groups can pull it off.
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Sure, roll 12 characters and pick the best one… or just roll one character using the better method.
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I am a fan of point buy myself, but if my group ever rolled for stats we'd do it together. Not just for transparency, but because it's fun to experience the highs and lows together.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
The advantage of a 'roll multiple characters' version is that it has considerably lower variance.
Also, rolling 12 characters is boring enough that people are going to be less inclined to try and reroll (and will gain less if they do so).
I am vaguely tempted by a 'We are the 1%' campaign where everyone rolls 100 characters on 3k3, but I'd have to use automatic generation at that point.
If trust is the issue at the table then it goes farther than stats. But there are ways to correct it.
1. Everyone rolls, one at a time, in front of everyone else.
2. DM rolls stats. Gives them to the players.
3. Let the untrusted roll first. Copy and paste stats for others.
4. Same as #3, but +1 each stat for others.
5. Untrusted is cursed session 1 and needs to undo curse. (NO remove curse) Plot.
When I was first playing in 1984... I may have "rolled" all 18s in an afternoon of trying.
My DM called me on it. I denied it. He let it pass. My Character was subject to EVERY random action that happened. Every random attack. There were omens that pointed to me as having been cursed. After several sessions I had to fight an Aleax, (Look it up). I won. My PC was in-service for a year and a day. PC was out of the campaign.
I never did it again.
When I see this poll I want to ask:
When you do roll for stats do you always keep the rolls even if they are terrible?
Most of the time the answer is "no" an rolling for stats becomes "I want to to roll better stats". I just do not like the inherent dishonesty with rolling for stats....like if you just want better stats just tell me and I am completely happy with doing an increased point buy for a more heroic feel.
But when people say they want it for random sake but then will let them use standard array or point buy if the rolls are terrible it kind of defeats the purpose of rolling.
Also I hate when one player has a 14 in their main stat vs one who has a 20. Even a 16 vs an 18 is big when you are considering its not JUST a +1 it can represent additional uses of class features (Bardic Inspiration, etc...), better AC, etc...
If everyone is more powerful its not hard to balance the game up.
If everyone is weaker its not hard to balance the game down.
If there is a lot stat discrepancy between players thats where it gets tough.
There are people who like "Hard Mode". They like the old school feel of how it was such a challenge to play certain classes, and that's hard to get if you have all good stats. So for people who like the extra challenge, 4d6, drop the lowest die, recorded in order. Take it and make a character based around your scores. These people like penalties, they feel that the harder things are, the sweeter the victory is when they win. I do see their point.
Myself, I'm not a hardcore kind of DM. I find that thanks to Bounced Accuracy and the rules for Action Economy, things are plenty challenging as is. I think Point Buy is the best system, because it's probably the most fair and balanced way to play what you want, but even Point Buy has drawbacks, and it needs to be made clear before the character generation stage what your rules will be for using it. I will allow only one 8, others DM's can do as they please, and from the poll at least, half those who voted like rolling randomly.
<Insert clever signature here>
We rolled all at once when at the table. Now we use the Dice Maiden on Discord and !roll 6 4d6 d1 and take whatever we get. If there is a low roll someone doesn't like they can opt for a straight 3d6 roll and have to take it. And that's how one of our latest characters ended up with a 4... which he placed into Wisdom and it has been an amazing game on his gullibility and where it has lead us. Mostly it's just fun rolling together. The highs and the lows. I would like point buy, but they have limited it in this version enough that everything feels like it has mediocre stats. But I've played enough systems starting with my red box, that I can take pretty much system and be happy with it. The dice are a small part of what I am going to do in creating a character.
I do like the roll if it is played straight up....as intended. Especially if the whole table is in for it and know that there will be power divide between those who roll bad and those who roll good.
I personally do not like it as a DM because I know that inevitability it will cause some discord in the ranks and could lead to issues of "nah let me do it" with those with better stats. However, I know some groups can pull it off.