I’m looking to provide my players a more immersive experience by allowing more options in combat, such as the following.
A bandit levels his crossbow and fires at the party’s wizard, the nearby barbarian attempts to rush over and throw himself in front of the crossbow bolt taking the hit and sparing the wizard. ( if Determined the action is possible it would be a pretty heroic/cool thing to do and help solidify the players as a more cohesive group who cares about each other and will go out of their way to lend aid.)
Such a feat is not without cost though, the barbarian may lose his reaction/bonus action/some movement, etc on his next turn as well as an ability check or 2 ( this is not set in stone but actions that go above and beyond would come at a high price ).
I’m interested in everyone’s thoughts (both positive/negative), thank you.
I'd have an effective reduction in AC. Part of AC is your ability to dodge which is explicitly being waived here. Probably cost his reaction since it's outside of his turn. I'd also put a very short range, perhaps he has to be within 5ft to do so, and maybe a dexterity check or contest? It would need to be difficult to do - there's a reason why you mostly hear about it in films.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Fighter has two fighting styles that can use a reaction to protect an ally within 5 feet of them.
Protection allows them to impose disadvantage on the attack against the ally.
Interception instead reduced the damage by 1d10 + proficiency bonus.
Since this is something you're giving for free, having some risk or damage to the barbarian would make sense I think, since it's an extra thing they're not investing a choice into like fighting styles are. Maybe the barbarian redirects the attack to them instead. Or takes the damage in their place, potentially half damage if raging to synergize with the class, reducing the effective damage done. Or the attack is redirected at the barbarian at advantage. I think something along those lines would be fun and useful, but not 'as good' as the fighter ones necessarily, since protection and interception are again a resource the fighter (or other class with fighting style) is investing in.
Tying it to a reaction would allow it to be useful without being game breaking. Many enemies afterall get multiattack, not to mention multiple enemies being present, so it's not like they can protect the wizard from all harm. I think this would be fine to add.
Oath of the Crown paladin can do this with Divine Allegiance; requires class level 7, uses up the reaction, can only be used to protect someone within 5' and has the paladin take the damage (which can't be reduced in any way) instead. I'm not saying it's a bad idea - it's dramatic and fits the notion of a tough hero taking one on the chin for the team - but I'm bringing this up so you have a by-the-book comparison to make and to point out you're potentially stepping on the toes of another class and its special ability.
I’m looking to provide my players a more immersive experience by allowing more options in combat, such as the following.
A bandit levels his crossbow and fires at the party’s wizard, the nearby barbarian attempts to rush over and throw himself in front of the crossbow bolt taking the hit and sparing the wizard. ( if Determined the action is possible it would be a pretty heroic/cool thing to do and help solidify the players as a more cohesive group who cares about each other and will go out of their way to lend aid.)
Such a feat is not without cost though, the barbarian may lose his reaction/bonus action/some movement, etc on his next turn as well as an ability check or 2 ( this is not set in stone but actions that go above and beyond would come at a high price ).
I’m interested in everyone’s thoughts (both positive/negative), thank you.
A Barbarian already has a way to do this: by being in the way of the shot the Barbarian grants cover, and there are optional rules handling cover causing you to miss forcing you to hit the intervening cover. Mechanically, that works like this:
Wizard gets +2 to AC from half cover.
If the bandit misses by exactly 1 or 2, it's due to the Barbarian. Check the same hit roll against the Barbarian's AC; if the Barbarian is hit, they're hit.
Note that the Barbarian can Ready an action to intervene if the Bandit is about to shoot (or potentially if they see a projectile approaching the wizard, depending on how generous you are as a DM with pausing time during a Reaction, but interrupting a hit between the attack roll and the damage roll to move is always tricky business), dynamically adding cover provided the Barbarian is aware the shot is about to occur.
Your version lets the Barbarian get their normal Action, and then move as a Reaction without Readying. Your version also lets the Barbarian guarantee the shot is intercepted, no matter how accurate the Bandit is. As I understand it, your version also has the Barbarian be hit, regardless of armor, which is an intrinsic cost, to be sure, but I don't think it's healthy for your table, because you're giving every NPC in the world an ability along the lines of what a Goblin Boss has, just with the reaction on the blocker instead of the blockee. Your PCs are going to get annoyed in a big hurry when every time they try to shoot the BBEG, a minion gets in the way, as every minion, no matter what, has a bodyguard reaction (and from more than 5 feet away!). If you don't give your NPCs this ability, you're only going to invite your PCs wondering why all the enemies they fight are too stupid to even use the action economy correctly. That's bad for business.
I wouldn't add this option, simply for the reason which Nyr_Ventus and pangurjan mentioned earlier. There are many options that already exist that allow a creature to do that in one way or another, and personally, I don't like to allow someone to step on someone else's toes simply because it looks cool. If a person wants to defend another creature, here are the ways which I remember they can do it, excluding spells:
Paladin Oath of the Crown, as well as Paladin Oath of Redemption. Both get a reaction to take the damage instead of the target, only at level 7. Should a level 1 Barbarian get the same? Give someone cover. That doesn't work as well, but it's an option. Quite frustrating if the enemy has Sharpshooter, though. Protection Fighting Style - gives disadvantage. Interception Fighting Style - reduces damage. College of Lore Bard can use a reaction to reduce the damage a creature takes by a roll of their Bardic Inspiration.
Though I don't remember any at the moment, I'm almost certain there's some Cleric Domain that can do something similar. And again, there are countless spells that defend a creature in a better way.
The one option I would allow, that will make this option actually heroic but at the same time, not something that steps on anyone's toes is that a creature that uses this reaction automatically receives the hit as a critical hit, or something similar that increases the damage received by a significant amount. That way, any of the options listed above, especially the Paladins' Auras, are still viable.
Alternatively, allow higher levelled monks to use their Deflect Missiles for attacks that pass close enough to their space, even if they're not directed at them. Would be a great buff to an otherwise not so powerful ability (in most campaigns), as well as a very cool moment when the Monk just plucks the arrow out of the air. It's also an indirect buff to the monks who play in mid-long range -- Kensei (when using a ranged weapon), Sun Soul, Four Elements -- all of which aren't considered that powerful anyhow. For melee Monks, simply being next to the archer thus imposing disadvantage is usually a simpler solution.
Thank you for your input, the scenario which involves the barbarian is just an example and by my fault maybe not explained properly (I am aware some classes already possess the abilities I am referring to. Players wouldn’t know if the attack would hit or miss until everything was played out, let’s say I have already determined the attack was a hit on the wizard and the barbarian failed his athletic check. The wizard would take the damage and the BAR would have sacrificed some of his/her options on the next round for nothing except for the fact he/she tried, bringing those 2 players closer together or the BAR makes it (depending on my attack roll he/she may take damage or the bolt was harmlessly deflected ). Whether hit or miss the end result is the same I feel, possibly a more exciting and enjoyable experience for my players (it’s the only reason I DM). Now on the other side of The copper coin, a goblin wouldn’t throw itself in front of an attack to save someone else (Goblin boss might grab a minion and use it as a humanoid shield though), a crazed zealot might to save his/her leader as DM (like all of you) I decide what the npcs do or don’t do and when. I do appreciate yours and everyone else’s point of view in this discussion, the community’s input was why I posted it. Also, I would never incorporate such a thing until after I went over it with my players and ran a small mock battle to illustrate my intent.
My group has played around with allowing "heroic actions" at the cost of Inspiration. I like it as a concept, and we used it to great effect a few times, but often we forgot about it.
I have also considered adding 2 actions in combat, they do simulate a few abilities that can be gained by certain classes.
If you win initiative and choose defend as your action, or if opponent wins initiative:
1) Parry: as long as you have not yet used your action, (or have an available bonus action[optional]), when you are hit by a melee attack you may attempt to parry. DC is the value of the roll that hit you including all bonuses, you may include your PB and attack modifier (str or dex depending on weapon) using a shield will allow strength modifier +2
2) Evade: after opponent rolls a successful attack you can attempt to evade that attack if you have not yet used your action. Make an acrobatics check, DC= 15+ however many points over what were needed to hit you resulted on the attack roll that you are evading.(i.e., opponent needed a 14 to hit and rolled a 18 your evade DC is 19.
reality check on parry, you automatically take damage if you do something improbable like parry while unarmed, try to block the storm giants attack with your shield, parry a dragons attack, etc. weight ratio should be considered. Also both options could benefit from inspiration, advantage, magic plusses, etc. maybe even superiority and ki points and other class related bonuses at DM’s discretion.
Is there a feint feat? Like once per round or encounter you can effectively faint and countermove? And attack with advantage? I think that would be cool ( if it doesn’t already exist).
Is there a feint feat? Like once per round or encounter you can effectively faint and countermove? And attack with advantage? I think that would be cool ( if it doesn’t already exist).
Not as somehing you can just do by default, but one of the battlemaster fighter manuvers is a feint that uses your bonus action and one of your superiority die to feint and give you advantage on an attack. There may be similar mechanics out there too, but not in the core RAW actions baseline.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I’m looking to provide my players a more immersive experience by allowing more options in combat, such as the following.
A bandit levels his crossbow and fires at the party’s wizard, the nearby barbarian attempts to rush over and throw himself in front of the crossbow bolt taking the hit and sparing the wizard. ( if Determined the action is possible it would be a pretty heroic/cool thing to do and help solidify the players as a more cohesive group who cares about each other and will go out of their way to lend aid.)
Such a feat is not without cost though, the barbarian may lose his reaction/bonus action/some movement, etc on his next turn as well as an ability check or 2 ( this is not set in stone but actions that go above and beyond would come at a high price ).
I’m interested in everyone’s thoughts (both positive/negative), thank you.
I'd have an effective reduction in AC. Part of AC is your ability to dodge which is explicitly being waived here. Probably cost his reaction since it's outside of his turn. I'd also put a very short range, perhaps he has to be within 5ft to do so, and maybe a dexterity check or contest? It would need to be difficult to do - there's a reason why you mostly hear about it in films.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Fighter has two fighting styles that can use a reaction to protect an ally within 5 feet of them.
Protection allows them to impose disadvantage on the attack against the ally.
Interception instead reduced the damage by 1d10 + proficiency bonus.
Since this is something you're giving for free, having some risk or damage to the barbarian would make sense I think, since it's an extra thing they're not investing a choice into like fighting styles are. Maybe the barbarian redirects the attack to them instead. Or takes the damage in their place, potentially half damage if raging to synergize with the class, reducing the effective damage done. Or the attack is redirected at the barbarian at advantage. I think something along those lines would be fun and useful, but not 'as good' as the fighter ones necessarily, since protection and interception are again a resource the fighter (or other class with fighting style) is investing in.
Tying it to a reaction would allow it to be useful without being game breaking. Many enemies afterall get multiattack, not to mention multiple enemies being present, so it's not like they can protect the wizard from all harm. I think this would be fine to add.
Oath of the Crown paladin can do this with Divine Allegiance; requires class level 7, uses up the reaction, can only be used to protect someone within 5' and has the paladin take the damage (which can't be reduced in any way) instead. I'm not saying it's a bad idea - it's dramatic and fits the notion of a tough hero taking one on the chin for the team - but I'm bringing this up so you have a by-the-book comparison to make and to point out you're potentially stepping on the toes of another class and its special ability.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
A Barbarian already has a way to do this: by being in the way of the shot the Barbarian grants cover, and there are optional rules handling cover causing you to miss forcing you to hit the intervening cover. Mechanically, that works like this:
Your version lets the Barbarian get their normal Action, and then move as a Reaction without Readying. Your version also lets the Barbarian guarantee the shot is intercepted, no matter how accurate the Bandit is. As I understand it, your version also has the Barbarian be hit, regardless of armor, which is an intrinsic cost, to be sure, but I don't think it's healthy for your table, because you're giving every NPC in the world an ability along the lines of what a Goblin Boss has, just with the reaction on the blocker instead of the blockee. Your PCs are going to get annoyed in a big hurry when every time they try to shoot the BBEG, a minion gets in the way, as every minion, no matter what, has a bodyguard reaction (and from more than 5 feet away!). If you don't give your NPCs this ability, you're only going to invite your PCs wondering why all the enemies they fight are too stupid to even use the action economy correctly. That's bad for business.
I would just stick with the RAW.
I wouldn't add this option, simply for the reason which Nyr_Ventus and pangurjan mentioned earlier. There are many options that already exist that allow a creature to do that in one way or another, and personally, I don't like to allow someone to step on someone else's toes simply because it looks cool. If a person wants to defend another creature, here are the ways which I remember they can do it, excluding spells:
Paladin Oath of the Crown, as well as Paladin Oath of Redemption. Both get a reaction to take the damage instead of the target, only at level 7. Should a level 1 Barbarian get the same?
Give someone cover. That doesn't work as well, but it's an option. Quite frustrating if the enemy has Sharpshooter, though.
Protection Fighting Style - gives disadvantage.
Interception Fighting Style - reduces damage.
College of Lore Bard can use a reaction to reduce the damage a creature takes by a roll of their Bardic Inspiration.
Though I don't remember any at the moment, I'm almost certain there's some Cleric Domain that can do something similar. And again, there are countless spells that defend a creature in a better way.
The one option I would allow, that will make this option actually heroic but at the same time, not something that steps on anyone's toes is that a creature that uses this reaction automatically receives the hit as a critical hit, or something similar that increases the damage received by a significant amount. That way, any of the options listed above, especially the Paladins' Auras, are still viable.
Alternatively, allow higher levelled monks to use their Deflect Missiles for attacks that pass close enough to their space, even if they're not directed at them. Would be a great buff to an otherwise not so powerful ability (in most campaigns), as well as a very cool moment when the Monk just plucks the arrow out of the air. It's also an indirect buff to the monks who play in mid-long range -- Kensei (when using a ranged weapon), Sun Soul, Four Elements -- all of which aren't considered that powerful anyhow. For melee Monks, simply being next to the archer thus imposing disadvantage is usually a simpler solution.
Varielky
Thank you for your input, the scenario which involves the barbarian is just an example and by my fault maybe not explained properly (I am aware some classes already possess the abilities I am referring to. Players wouldn’t know if the attack would hit or miss until everything was played out, let’s say I have already determined the attack was a hit on the wizard and the barbarian failed his athletic check. The wizard would take the damage and the BAR would have sacrificed some of his/her options on the next round for nothing except for the fact he/she tried, bringing those 2 players closer together or the BAR makes it (depending on my attack roll he/she may take damage or the bolt was harmlessly deflected ). Whether hit or miss the end result is the same I feel, possibly a more exciting and enjoyable experience for my players (it’s the only reason I DM). Now on the other side of The copper coin, a goblin wouldn’t throw itself in front of an attack to save someone else (Goblin boss might grab a minion and use it as a humanoid shield though), a crazed zealot might to save his/her leader as DM (like all of you) I decide what the npcs do or don’t do and when. I do appreciate yours and everyone else’s point of view in this discussion, the community’s input was why I posted it.
Also, I would never incorporate such a thing until after I went over it with my players and ran a small mock battle to illustrate my intent.
My group has played around with allowing "heroic actions" at the cost of Inspiration. I like it as a concept, and we used it to great effect a few times, but often we forgot about it.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
Just for fun, I will add mark of sentinel variant human has an ability called vigilant guardian.
I have also considered adding 2 actions in combat, they do simulate a few abilities that can be gained by certain classes.
If you win initiative and choose defend as your action, or if opponent wins initiative:
1) Parry: as long as you have not yet used your action, (or have an available bonus action[optional]), when you are hit by a melee attack you may attempt to parry. DC is the value of the roll that hit you including all bonuses, you may include your PB and attack modifier (str or dex depending on weapon) using a shield will allow strength modifier +2
2) Evade: after opponent rolls a successful attack you can attempt to evade that attack if you have not yet used your action. Make an acrobatics check, DC= 15+ however many points over what were needed to hit you resulted on the attack roll that you are evading.(i.e., opponent needed a 14 to hit and rolled a 18 your evade DC is 19.
reality check on parry, you automatically take damage if you do something improbable like parry while unarmed, try to block the storm giants attack with your shield, parry a dragons attack, etc. weight ratio should be considered. Also both options could benefit from inspiration, advantage, magic plusses, etc. maybe even superiority and ki points and other class related bonuses at DM’s discretion.
Is there a feint feat? Like once per round or encounter you can effectively faint and countermove? And attack with advantage? I think that would be cool ( if it doesn’t already exist).
DM - And In The Darkness, Rot: The Sunless Citadel
DM - Our Little Lives Kept In Equipoise: Curse of Strahd
DM - Misprize Thou Not These Shadows That Belong: The Lost Mines of Phandelver
PC - Azzure - Tyranny of Dragons
Not as somehing you can just do by default, but one of the battlemaster fighter manuvers is a feint that uses your bonus action and one of your superiority die to feint and give you advantage on an attack. There may be similar mechanics out there too, but not in the core RAW actions baseline.