The long of it short: I'm tired of having my players roll initiative all the time for small encounters. It bogs down the game and doesn't seem worth it for trivial fights where combat only lasts one, maybe two, turns. What system or formula, if any, have you used to lessen the need to roll initiative for every encounter?

I've tried several things. I've had players freely take actions without any initiative, but that ultimately devolves into two or three people doing all the fighting and gets chaotic for me, the DM, to keep track of enemy turns etc. I've also tried doing a "fast initiative" where PCs (and enemies) with the highest dex/initiative bonus go first. However, this often leaves slower characters without anything to do. Any suggestions would be appreciated!

One of the games I play in is a larger group (7-8), and I find the DM's solution simple and elegant. Anytime we finish a long rest we roll initiative a number of times that he chooses (in cities we might only roll three, while in the wilderness maybe four, dungeons five or more), and then rank them highest to lowest for him. He enters them into a table, and we use our first initiative (highest) in the first combat, and go lower each time, representing our 'tiredness'. So we only roll initiative once every couple/few sessions, basically. If we have more encounters than initiative, we just use the lowest value for the remaining encounters. 

Two things.

For trivial fights - I try to avoid those entirely.  I try and play "bad guys" intelligently. They have to have a pretty good reason for wanting to fight to the death, and not just turn and run, or surrender, if the combat is clearly going to be trivial for the party. 

If a trivial battle is going to occur anyway, then I just narrativly describe the outcome of fight that will happen - although may also dish out a few minor wounds randomly to the party, just for flavor:

You quickly dispatch the goblins, although Thagar, one manages to get in a lucky shot against you before going down ... 3 HP piercing  damage

Or

You effortlessly dispatch a handful of the goblins, although Thagar, one manages to get in a lucky shot  against you before going down ... 3 HP  piercing  damage ... seeing the speed at which their comrades are dispatched, the rest throw down their weapons in surrender. What are you going to do?

 For non-trivial fights, I'll have my players make 4-5 initiative rolls at the beginning of a session. I jot them down in little chart, and when they come to a combat, I randomly pick a column. That's their "pre-rolled" initiative for that encounter. I'll roll group initiative for the "bad guys" and insert them into the table.

You brace yourself as the Wolf Riders charge across the clearing at you, their mounts giving bloodthirsty howls - *glances at chart* -Thagar, you're up first, what are you doing?

Quote from MellieDM >>

One of the games I play in is a larger group (7-8), and I find the DM's solution simple and elegant. Anytime we finish a long rest we roll initiative a number of times that he chooses (in cities we might only roll three, while in the wilderness maybe four, dungeons five or more), and then rank them highest to lowest for him. He enters them into a table, and we use our first initiative (highest) in the first combat, and go lower each time, representing our 'tiredness'. So we only roll initiative once every couple/few sessions, basically. If we have more encounters than initiative, we just use the lowest value for the remaining encounters. 

Similar to what I do - but I like the ranking according to tiredness idea.

So I have had this debate over and over again but since you asked. I have gotten rid of rolling initiative period. If a combat occurs I adjudicate it like any other situation, a player states their action and I resolve it. For chaotic situations like combat I usually start with first come first go, if it seems like there will be a tie I usually let the character with the highest dexterity modifier go first (player agency and all that). However, in the long run I usually resolve the scene in a way that makes the most narrative sense. I.E. The burly warrior with the great axe may shout out that he attacks first but the wily rogue with the dagger may actually get to go first. I know, I know I can hear the bellows of "initiative" even now...frankly I don't care. Rolling initiative slows the game down, often ruins fantastic narrative situations, and despite what bunch of screaming banshees might say it puts the players into a combat mindset. I know your arguments however my 37 years of gaming experience says otherwise and when asked "who are going to believe me or your own eyes" I will pick my own eyes every time. I am sure you have a story about the exception, well exceptions are memorable because they are exceptions...that is why we have the word exceptional. Anyway sorry for the off-topic rant. As far as the chaotic elements you have described I can't help you there. Or maybe I can...this may be a little contrived but you could just have an opponent go after each PC....hero goes...bad guy goes...hero...bad guy...you get the point. It may not be an ideal solution but it can do two things...help with pacing since you don't get a situation where all the PCs go and then they have to wait for you to roll for all the bad guys and it can make it easier for you to remember who's turn it is. Anyways, that is how I do it.

P.S.

I concur with Vedexent that trivial fights shouldn't be in the game...screen time is prime and why waste it on anything trivial??? Every scene in your game should be there for a specific reason.

To reply to those against trivial fights all together...I'm running Tomb of Annihilation and once in a while, I want the jungle to feel like a war of attrition. Beasts and undead are everywhere and, while they won't take down a PC, I feel like whittling away at resources (and hit dice) throughout the day is a challenge in itself.

My players also have a tendency to fight everything that appears, so there's that, too.

I really like the idea of rolling multiple initiatives per long rest, having them decrease as the day drags on. I might just try it!

That's actually an acceptable reason for keeping in trivial combats - setting the tone of the environment grinding implacably down on them, especially if you can spin your description to emphasize the relentless mechanical plodding and hacking of the undead.

If your aim is to put in multiple fights which cannot threaten the players, but just drain resources, you could still collapse several combats together, and have the undead come in waves. Each wave can easily be put down by the party, each wave only stumbles in after the last wave falls, but each wave comes immediately after the last one falls.

Alternatively, since the players are going to win, regardless, and it doesn't really matter what the initiative order is, except to manage what Player rolls next, then you could take them in  dexterity initiative order, but always start with the character that would have gone next when the last combat ended. That way everyone gets to do something over a number of combats, even if not everyone gets to do something in every combat.

Quote from AK30 >>

To reply to those against trivial fights all together...I'm running Tomb of Annihilation and once in a while, I want the jungle to feel like a war of attrition. Beasts and undead are everywhere and, while they won't take down a PC, I feel like whittling away at resources (and hit dice) throughout the day is a challenge in itself.

My players also have a tendency to fight everything that appears, so there's that, too.

I really like the idea of rolling multiple initiatives per long rest, having them decrease as the day drags on. I might just try it!

IMHO the only way to get that "war of attrition" result is to get rid of the normal adventirng day of 1 hour Short Rest + 1 Night long Rest.

Instead, require players to "Take a Break" (1 hour) and "Make Camp" (1 night), and that NOT doing those cause penalties.

Pausing for a Breath:

This is a 10 minute pause to catch up your breath after extended traveling, or after a fight or other strenuous or stressful situation. You let your adrenaline levels fall down, take a few swigs from your waterskin, maybe a handful of nuts from your ration, and take the time to patch up wounds, clean your weapons and check your armor and equipment, reorder your components pounch that got jumbled a bit during the fight, and so on. 

Skipping Taking a Breath gives no penalty to the PC himself, but will make the need to Take a Break occur sooner in  the day.

Taking a Break:

A break is 1 hour of only light activity that doesn't require concentration or high focus or produces useful work. Standing watch or reading a book or performing easy to do minor repairs aand mmaitenance on your equipment are light activities.

When you Take a Break, you eat, drink, sit and rest, and then feel refreshed enough to pursue normal activities. Typically, a normal day of traveling requires taking two breaks, one at lunch time and one more a dinner time. Hard work day or stresful  environments might require up to 4.

• Skipping Taking a Break gives -1 cumulative Penalty on all Saving Throws.

Taking a Break or Making Camp removes the penalty.

Basically, a non-negligible penalty, but more of a temporary annoyance than something deadly serious. Players can easily avoid it by Taking a Break by themselves at a moment they like, before the DM asks for one.

Making Camp:

This is 12 hours, allowing for all the activities associated with making camp, not just sleeping time, plus a couple hours of personal activity like prayers, reading a book, or any other light activity.

Skipping Camp when it becomes necessary, makes you sleepy:

• +1 Rank of Exhaustion.
• Disadvantage on Initiative, Concentration, and all INT WIS CHA (aka "mental") skill checks (Insight, Perception, etc.).

Rest Tokens

The DM gives the player group 2 "Short Rest" tokens, and 1 "Long Rest" token. These can be anyting from just checboxes on a paper sheet to dedicated custom-made 3D game tokens of any size.

Players can spend a Short Rest token whenever they Take a Break to gain the normal benefits of a Short Rest.

Players can spend a Long Rest token whenever they Make Camp to gain the normal benefits of a Long Rest.

Returning to town and resting for two consecutive full nights around one full day, counts as a Long Rest, and replenishes all Rest tokens. Basically,  they arrive in town ragged and exhausted, just to mainly crash into beed, spend the next day doing pretty much nothing important, then sleep it off again and THEN the morning of the 2nd day in town will they feel much better.

Otherwise the DM decides the rate at which the players regain tokens. This is through a chosen EPTN (Encounter Points Threshold Number), which he doesn't have to follow exactly.

Typically, the EPTN will be 5 (or any other number the DM chooses) "Encounter Points". Fights give 0/1/2/3/4/4 Encounter Points according to their CCR Combat Challenge Rating Trivial/Easy/Medium/Hard/Deadly/Suicidal. Fights easier than Easy CCR are Trivial and worth Zero Encounter Points. Fights deadlier than Deadly CCR are Suicidal and remain worth 4 Encounter Points. The only reason players won was through sheer luck after all. Note that the CCR used must take into account all the factors involved in that battle area, not just the XP value of the monsters. Say a strong enemy army of super strong monsters is coming at the party, and they are all currently crossing a big but fragile looking rope bridge where obviously a single well placed strike on the rope will make all the enemies end up all falling to their deaths into the lava lake below. That is not a Suicidal Encounter, it is a Trivial one instead. Any combat encounter where aq single attack can end it, is defiinitely a Trivial one.

Other encounter types may also be worth points. Mainly, it depends on how much party resources (poweres, spells, items, hit points, etc.) the DM expects in advance these encounters to consume, just the same as for fights.

When the players finishes encounters (succeed or fail is not important here) then he gives them Encounter Points. This might be secretly writing on paper, or it make be in the form of "coins" that are clearly visible to the players. Whatever he fancies.

When the party has enough Encounter Points and the required EPTN is reached, the DM just substracts the chosen EPTN value (thus if you have now 6 and the threshold is 5, then afterwards the player still have 1 encounter point left over), and then replenishes all the rest tokens. "Replenishing" means going back to the maxikmum of 2 Short Rests and 1 Long Rest, otherwise you can't accumulate them.

Note that the DM doesn't give tokens one by one at his whims. He replenishes them all at once.

Avoiding Metagaming the System

 The players might just decide to just travel around, hitting enough "easy" random encounters until ythey can heal back up to full.

This is because 2 Easy Encounters tyically cost a lot less resrcous than a single medium encounter, and surface ssecondary random encounters are typically easier than scripted "adventure" encounters.

The DM should just reduce random encounters encounter point value by 1. (and warn his players of that fact). Scripted "in adventure" pseudo-ramdom encounters remain worth the full value. This half-value is only for "superfluous" uneded encounters. if thep layrs waste time in the wilderness, then they will also have to waste extra time in town too.

This has the added positive effect that spellcasting players will NOT tend to go all nuclear  with random encounters. They'll know they won't get back their ressrouces right afterwards.

Tweaking It

 If you want a grittier "attrition" style, just jack up the Encounter Points Threshold Number a bit. Not too much, though.

Players will start spending their resources very wisely when they know they won't reload until say 8 to 10 fights!

Overspending themselves to have to fully go back to civilisation again and again will lead to the players realizing that they are losing three things:

- Cash. They won't get more treasure, but must still spend rations for the travel back, pay for two extra nights at the inn and buy a day worth more of inn food in town.

- Time. As days pass, the enemies plan advance. They can place traps, bring reinforcements, or just leave. Or they might even finish their evil plans, with the mission ending up in failure. For the PCs, it is time to be told they need to up their game!

- Ressources. All that traveling back and forth between dungeon and town, also means extra random encounters, which pay less both in terms of treasure and encounter points.

If you instead want easier play, reduce the EPTN instead to only 4 or even 3.

If you play with little kids, why are you making things so complicated? Forget resting rules, just let them heal back to full after every fight, and all healing one by the cleric is x3 norkmal (so in-combat healling is effective). Screw the rules, it's kids! Have fun! sure this makes per-long-rest classes way better but odds are very high that your little kids will never realize it anyway.

The Value of Planning

Put a lot of emphasis on the high importance for players to not waste their ressources inefficiently. Sure they want to keep all that treasure for that big shny plate mail., but spending a siezeable fraction of their loot of equipment that will make their next adventure easier, is a must in an attrition based campaigns. Buying those 5 extra healing potions and some antidote is what could spell the difference between success and failure in the next adventure. Each encounter must be won without wasting spell slots and other resources. Good military tacxtics will reduce overalll party damage taken, thus also saving on ressources. Encourage players to THINK. If you feel they are nowghere near ready too play llike that, do not waste your high-paid campaign modulke on that, instead first throw them on a small very simple adventure, all gloves off, and let them fail until they get it.

Thrust me, once they will have fought the same battle room three times "because new traps, new fortifications, new reinforcemments, etc.", they'll figure it out that if they go all out they waste ressources too fast, and will have a harer time overall. Let other tactcs work like stealth to bypass the guards, preparing traps and ambushes of their own to lead their foes in, etc. If your players atre really dense, have a very prudent lower-power-but-wiser NPC with them, suggesting tips on everything they did wrong. Or readily if the players just think to ask him questions.

The fastest way would be to just use everyones DEX modifier, highest to lowest, and adjudicate ties.  But rolling gives everyone a chance to go first (even the +5 DEX monk can whiff a roll and the -1 DEX Paladin in Heavy Armor can roll really high).

I always roll, but if combat is close enough to "flow" into each other, I just roll for new enemies and insert them into the last rolled order.

I don't control what fights the party gets into - they do. If they are fighting trivial monsters, it's because they chose to have a battle here... or because they chose to walk into the area aggressively... or what have you.

Use the combat tracker tool on dndbeyond to automatically roll initiative for your PCs (or your VTT equivalent). It gets all the characters into order very quickly, so the fight can start with one or two button clicks instead of waiting for everybody to roll dice, report their results, and then arrange things manually on an initiative table.

You are talking about what I call "Speed Bump" encounters. I (DM) and a player roll a d6. Highest goes first. Then I go clockwise. Or if they been especially lucky during the night, I just say the monsters go first. Then clockwise. 

Queue up several combats worth of initiatives from the players before the game starts.  

When combat starts you have the list right there and only need to quickly add the monsters.  Or just use the monsters passive initiative.  

Cross out that list and pull up the next one afterwards.

This has been one of the advantages of playing on a VTT.  Initiative is as fast as click on character, click on initiative... sort all.  It takes all of 5 seconds for the entire initiative to take place and begin combat.  Therefore, we do it any time we enter combat.  It is one of the things that will be difficult to go back to a normal tabletop with real dice in the future... 

Quote from Grayfax >>

This has been one of the advantages of playing on a VTT.  Initiative is as fast as click on character, click on initiative... sort all.  It takes all of 5 seconds for the entire initiative to take place and begin combat.  Therefore, we do it any time we enter combat.  It is one of the things that will be difficult to go back to a normal tabletop with real dice in the future... 

 My group has projected an initiative count along with other pertinent info onto a nearby TV for years now. I expect when we can finally play in person again we will incorporate even more tech now that we've gotten used to it. VTTs can do things with lighting and line of sight that you just can't do in person. But yeah, I don't find that initiative slows down the game at all. We can do it in the time it takes me to down a swig of my sugary beverage of choice.

I agree with using an online tool if these are taking too long: It takes a couple of clicks and it's done. I know we enjoy rolling our dice, but if it is slowing the game too much I think most players will buy in to this.

Roll the dice, should only take 1.5 minutes.  Reason it may take longer, Player C stepped outside to potty, DM getting tokens ready,   But really should not take long to go around table and get Initiatives.

Let the players pick when they want to go, dex breaks ties.  I know I don't like going first.  Or if the group wants the casters to go first to buff, control scene, etc. then charge and bash.  Allows good team work to be created this way, or shows bad team work and the costs of it.

I love the pre-roll idea, and each turn it drops cuz you are tired.  

I like a little realism too.  If the rogue picks the lock and opens door, how does the mage in the very back get to go first just because he rolled a 18.

Maybe do not do one set thing each time, but bounce between the many good ideas the folks have posted.  

no such thing as a trivial encounter.

If is really is a trivial encounter, then why bother rolling dice at all? The DM can simply say that the party dispatch the trivial enemy with little consequence.

You could just let them act when they want. Just keep a few things in mind. Still treat each round separate so every player and monster have a turn. If there is an issue where two or more players want to go first you can let them do so depending on the situation. In other cases just refer to their dex bonus. Also you will have to fit the bad guys in as well. That is up to the you as to when. I ran a few fames like this for a while. I personally was fine with it. Some of my players got confused. In the end I did go back to rolling. The Angry GM did a write up on this topic. Look it up, its a worth a read.