Another one of my DM 101 questions. In the last game, I ran into a situation where I was unsure of how to properly handle it.
Setup: Party vs. Goblins
We are in the middle of combat and it is the wizard's turn. He casts Sacred Flame and does damage to a goblin, to which goblin yells out in 'goblin' "Aid us, Protector of the Twilight Grove!” which is a trigger to bring in the next wave of enemies, Twig Blights. The ranger player speaks up, who is deeper in the initiative order, saying "I know Goblin can I understand what it says?" I told him the same line of text I included above and he goes "I yell that out to the party a warning!". I said no he could not give the warning because "It's not your turn." After moving through the initiative we get to the ranger who I allowed his 'free action' to yell out his warning so now the party is aware that something could be coming to aid the goblins.
Question: So when I made the ruling I was not 100% confident I made the right call(s) or that I was handling In-game talk/tactics during combat hence why I'm asking for some feedback or hear how DMs manage situations like this or in other similar cases.
Another one of my DM 101 questions. In the last game, I ran into a situation where I was unsure of how to properly handle it.
Setup: Party vs. Goblins
We are in the middle of combat and it is the wizard's turn. He casts Sacred Flame and does damage to a goblin, to which goblin yells out in 'goblin' "Aid us, Protector of the Twilight Grove!” which is a trigger to bring in the next wave of enemies, Twig Blights. The ranger player speaks up, who is deeper in the initiative order, saying "I know Goblin can I understand what it says?" I told him the same line of text I included above and he goes "I yell that out to the party a warning!". I said no he could not give the warning because "It's not your turn." After moving through the initiative we get to the ranger who I allowed his 'free action' to yell out his warning so now the party is aware that something could be coming to aid the goblins.
Question: So when I made the ruling I was not 100% confident I made the right call(s) or that I was handling In-game talk/tactics during combat hence why I'm asking for some feedback or hear how DMs manage situations like this or in other similar cases.
You did it exactly as RAW with one minor exception, every PC can say up to 6 seconds of stuff every turn without needing to use their free action to do it. (After all, they only get one free action per turn.)
Flourishes don’t “do” anything, they just look cool in our imaginations. A PC can only have one free meaningful interaction with their environment per turn.
You can also interact with one object or feature of the environment for free, during either your move or your action. For example, you could open a door during your move as you stride toward a foe, or you could draw your weapon as part of the same action you use to attack.
If you want to interact with a second object, you need to use your action. Some magic items and other special objects always require an action to use, as stated in their descriptions.
When people refer to “one free action” it is a shorthand way of saying that. You knew exactly what I meant, no need to be so pedantic.
Flourishes don’t “do” anything, they just look cool in our imaginations. A PC can only have one free meaningful interaction with their environment per turn.
You can also interact with one object or feature of the environment for free, during either your move or your action. For example, you could open a door during your move as you stride toward a foe, or you could draw your weapon as part of the same action you use to attack.
If you want to interact with a second object, you need to use your action. Some magic items and other special objects always require an action to use, as stated in their descriptions.
When people refer to “one free action” it is a shorthand way of saying that. You knew exactly what I meant, no need to be so pedantic.
This has nothing to do with the question asked, which was about communication, which is "free" (in the sense that it does not cost you an action or a move), and you answered about the interaction about one object per turn, which is "free" as well, and then went on saying "they only get one free action per turn", which in that context is false, as you can have at least two "free actions", communicating and interacting with an object.
I'm really sorry I tried to be nice in he way I worded things. The way you say it is wrong, there is no difference between speaking and interacting with an object, both are "flourishes" and neither one is more a "free action" than the other.
There is your mistake. Speaking is not a “flourish” it is listed in a different paragraph entirely and exists in addition to flourishes. The once per turn free item interaction is also not a “flourish,” nor is it “speaking” since it is listed in yet an entirely different paragraph from either of the other two. Those being counted as separate from “flourishes” is further supported by the last paragraph which specifies:
The DM might require you to use an action for any of these activities when it needs special care or when it presents an unusual obstacle. For instance, the DM could reasonably expect you to use an action to open a stuck door or turn a crank to lower a drawbridge.
If they were not separate “activities” (plural), it would not have said “any of these activities,” instead it would simply rend “a flourish” which it does not.
Next time you wish to show off how much you know by correcting someone else, you would do well to make sure you know what you’re talking about first.
To play Devils' Advocate here, just because the rules say a character can speak on their turn doesn't mean they can't speak out of their turn. That line may just be clarifying that speaking on your turn falls under the category of things that neither take your action or your move even when it includes 'non-standard' communication like gestures or pantomime.
Personally I think realism suffers a bit for a character to sit and wait for their turn to shout a warning. We allow brief utterances out of turn in situations like the one in OP's example. I might limit it to once a round per character, but the need has not come up. The players know that anything beyond a few words needs to happen on your turn so it has not been disruptive to our combats.
That being said, I'm a player in a game that even limits player-to-player interaction. When I try to assist a newer player during combat to explain how a spell or class feature works (which their character would obviously know after the training they went through to acquire the feature), I have to use my Reaction to do so. You may want to adopt a similar rule if you want to allow limited out-of-turn communication. But of course you're also free to prevent it entirely.
That being said, I allow and encourage brief exchanges during combat regardless on initiative . Role playing doesn’t stop when combat starts and our favorite films and books are full of characters speaking and shouting during combat. It also helps keep players engaged when it is not their turn but when I say brief, I mean It. “Go after the wolf, Grudar!” Is just fine from another player when it is Grudar’s turn three paragraphs on meta strategy is not
That being said, I allow and encourage brief exchanges during combat regardless on initiative . Role playing doesn’t stop when combat starts and our favorite films and books are full of characters speaking and shouting during combat. It also helps keep players engaged when it is not their turn but when I say brief, I mean It. “Go after the wolf, Grudar!” Is just fine from another player when it is Grudar’s turn three paragraphs on meta strategy is not
So in my case, using your methodology I could have allowed my Ranger to give the translation to the party if it was something along the lines of "We have trouble coming?" during the Wizards turn?
I'm not certain how I would rule. I almost always go with if there is combat you can't say anything until your turn. It helps to prevent other people stepping on toes or stealing spotlight.
The warning coming before the Ranger's turn and before the Wizard's turn could potentially change the fight. The Wizard could radically change their action.
Maybe spend Reaction to shout a warning?
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To be honest I would like to think I would have told the Ranger character in private and then told them they had to wait until their turn to speak.
Generally though I probably would have just told them at the table and even telling them to wait there turn, everyone knows. I might gently chastise overt metagaming but generally it is so trivial that it doesn't really matter.
You did fine, it is always good to know RAW and it has been given, but deviating from it slightly is hardly going to ruin anyone's game.
That being said, I allow and encourage brief exchanges during combat regardless on initiative . Role playing doesn’t stop when combat starts and our favorite films and books are full of characters speaking and shouting during combat. It also helps keep players engaged when it is not their turn but when I say brief, I mean It. “Go after the wolf, Grudar!” Is just fine from another player when it is Grudar’s turn three paragraphs on meta strategy is not
So in my case, using your methodology I could have allowed my Ranger to give the translation to the party if it was something along the lines of "We have trouble coming?" during the Wizards turn?
To be honest I would like to think I would have told the Ranger character in private and then told them they had to wait until their turn to speak.
Generally though I probably would have just told them at the table and even telling them to wait there turn, everyone knows. I might gently chastise overt metagaming but generally it is so trivial that it doesn't really matter.
You did fine, it is always good to know RAW and it has been given, but deviating from it slightly is hardly going to ruin anyone's game.
Yeah, that is a good point and since I'm running this over Zoom and VTT I could have PM the translation to him. Still, I'm pretty good at correcting players on "You don't know that." situations and they react accordingly but still there is that slight amount of meta-gaming which does creep in.
I'm not certain how I would rule. I almost always go with if there is combat you can't say anything until your turn. It helps to prevent other people stepping on toes or stealing spotlight.
The warning coming before the Ranger's turn and before the Wizard's turn could potentially change the fight. The Wizard could radically change their action.
Maybe spend Reaction to shout a warning?
That is actually an interesting idea to consider. Though it allows mostly the players who hang back (Wizard, Rogue, and Warlock) to have the most in-game talking opportunities since they hardly if ever, use their reactions that could be justified they see more of the battlefield whereas those up front are concentrating on the enemies in front of them.
Rule of cool: does allowing players to talk out of turn allow them to make more sophisticated choices, or does it ruin some surprise and tension you had carefully set up? You're the DM here. You can make any call you want.
I usually allow one or two sentences out of turn. If it turns into a debate or a monologue, you'll need to use an action on your turn.
I am personally pretty lax with how much can be said but it also depends on what is being said.
I like cool cinematic moments during my fights so if a PC is engaged in a duel with an enemy and they both trade not only blows but quips as well, I am not going to have them wait for other 5 players to take a turn before they can respond. It breaks the flow.
Combat is a weird thing in D&D where it technically a round lasts 6 seconds but not really if you think about it. In order for the round of combat to take 6 seconds on the dot, the players and enemies shouldn't be able to react to anything that happens before them in initiative order because they simply wouldn't have time for that. So it stretches longer than that but then we pretend it's 6 seconds when it matters (for instance for t he purpose of duration).
Another one of my DM 101 questions. In the last game, I ran into a situation where I was unsure of how to properly handle it.
Setup: Party vs. Goblins
We are in the middle of combat and it is the wizard's turn. He casts Sacred Flame and does damage to a goblin, to which goblin yells out in 'goblin' "Aid us, Protector of the Twilight Grove!” which is a trigger to bring in the next wave of enemies, Twig Blights. The ranger player speaks up, who is deeper in the initiative order, saying "I know Goblin can I understand what it says?" I told him the same line of text I included above and he goes "I yell that out to the party a warning!". I said no he could not give the warning because "It's not your turn." After moving through the initiative we get to the ranger who I allowed his 'free action' to yell out his warning so now the party is aware that something could be coming to aid the goblins.
Question: So when I made the ruling I was not 100% confident I made the right call(s) or that I was handling In-game talk/tactics during combat hence why I'm asking for some feedback or hear how DMs manage situations like this or in other similar cases.
You did it exactly as RAW with one minor exception, every PC can say up to 6 seconds of stuff every turn without needing to use their free action to do it. (After all, they only get one free action per turn.)
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Flourishes don’t “do” anything, they just look cool in our imaginations. A PC can only have one free meaningful interaction with their environment per turn.
When people refer to “one free action” it is a shorthand way of saying that. You knew exactly what I meant, no need to be so pedantic.
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There is your mistake. Speaking is not a “flourish” it is listed in a different paragraph entirely and exists in addition to flourishes. The once per turn free item interaction is also not a “flourish,” nor is it “speaking” since it is listed in yet an entirely different paragraph from either of the other two. Those being counted as separate from “flourishes” is further supported by the last paragraph which specifies:
If they were not separate “activities” (plural), it would not have said “any of these activities,” instead it would simply rend “a flourish” which it does not.
Next time you wish to show off how much you know by correcting someone else, you would do well to make sure you know what you’re talking about first.
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To play Devils' Advocate here, just because the rules say a character can speak on their turn doesn't mean they can't speak out of their turn. That line may just be clarifying that speaking on your turn falls under the category of things that neither take your action or your move even when it includes 'non-standard' communication like gestures or pantomime.
Personally I think realism suffers a bit for a character to sit and wait for their turn to shout a warning. We allow brief utterances out of turn in situations like the one in OP's example. I might limit it to once a round per character, but the need has not come up. The players know that anything beyond a few words needs to happen on your turn so it has not been disruptive to our combats.
That being said, I'm a player in a game that even limits player-to-player interaction. When I try to assist a newer player during combat to explain how a spell or class feature works (which their character would obviously know after the training they went through to acquire the feature), I have to use my Reaction to do so. You may want to adopt a similar rule if you want to allow limited out-of-turn communication. But of course you're also free to prevent it entirely.
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Thanks, everyone for the feedback and suggestions. This was just what I was looking for so I appreciate the time to respond.
Your ruling was fine and closest to RAW.
That being said, I allow and encourage brief exchanges during combat regardless on initiative . Role playing doesn’t stop when combat starts and our favorite films and books are full of characters speaking and shouting during combat. It also helps keep players engaged when it is not their turn but when I say brief, I mean It. “Go after the wolf, Grudar!” Is just fine from another player when it is Grudar’s turn three paragraphs on meta strategy is not
I do as Drakeborn does. I do not strictly follow the "action economy" if doing so would interfere with RP. RP comes first, always.
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So in my case, using your methodology I could have allowed my Ranger to give the translation to the party if it was something along the lines of "We have trouble coming?" during the Wizards turn?
I'm not certain how I would rule. I almost always go with if there is combat you can't say anything until your turn. It helps to prevent other people stepping on toes or stealing spotlight.
The warning coming before the Ranger's turn and before the Wizard's turn could potentially change the fight. The Wizard could radically change their action.
Maybe spend Reaction to shout a warning?
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
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"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
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To be honest I would like to think I would have told the Ranger character in private and then told them they had to wait until their turn to speak.
Generally though I probably would have just told them at the table and even telling them to wait there turn, everyone knows. I might gently chastise overt metagaming but generally it is so trivial that it doesn't really matter.
You did fine, it is always good to know RAW and it has been given, but deviating from it slightly is hardly going to ruin anyone's game.
Yes, I would have allowed that.
Yeah, that is a good point and since I'm running this over Zoom and VTT I could have PM the translation to him. Still, I'm pretty good at correcting players on "You don't know that." situations and they react accordingly but still there is that slight amount of meta-gaming which does creep in.
That is actually an interesting idea to consider. Though it allows mostly the players who hang back (Wizard, Rogue, and Warlock) to have the most in-game talking opportunities since they hardly if ever, use their reactions that could be justified they see more of the battlefield whereas those up front are concentrating on the enemies in front of them.
Rule of cool: does allowing players to talk out of turn allow them to make more sophisticated choices, or does it ruin some surprise and tension you had carefully set up? You're the DM here. You can make any call you want.
I usually allow one or two sentences out of turn. If it turns into a debate or a monologue, you'll need to use an action on your turn.
I am personally pretty lax with how much can be said but it also depends on what is being said.
I like cool cinematic moments during my fights so if a PC is engaged in a duel with an enemy and they both trade not only blows but quips as well, I am not going to have them wait for other 5 players to take a turn before they can respond. It breaks the flow.
Combat is a weird thing in D&D where it technically a round lasts 6 seconds but not really if you think about it. In order for the round of combat to take 6 seconds on the dot, the players and enemies shouldn't be able to react to anything that happens before them in initiative order because they simply wouldn't have time for that. So it stretches longer than that but then we pretend it's 6 seconds when it matters (for instance for t he purpose of duration).
You could have them burn their bonus action (or both) instead. That’d probably carry a bit more weight even if it doesn’t fit as well thematically.