Booming blade targets any creature in a 5 foot radius from its point of origin, which is yourself. you do not target yourself with the spell. it is absolutely eligible for War Caster.
They changed the spell and the range is now officially “self (5-foot radius)” which definitively precludes it working with War Caster, as the feat specifically requires the spell “target only that creature.” (For the record, I houserule it works anyway, but RAW it does not. 🤷♂️)
Self (5-foot radius) means you are the spell's point of origin. not the target of the spell. you target any creature within a 5 foot radius of yourself.
No "target any creature within a 5 foot radius of yourself" is written "range: 5 ft" which is what they changed it FROM.
"Range: self (5-foot radius)" is an AOE that targets self as a point of origin, like sword burst.
You strike one creature with your melee weapon. It targets one creature a lot better than lightning bolt does. the radius is the reach in which you can target a creature. The change to self was specifically to disable its interaction with the twinned spell metamagic. The range has been modified but the spells description still pretty explicitly says that you are targeting only one other creature, not yourself. hope this helps 👍
Booming blade targets any creature in a 5 foot radius from its point of origin, which is yourself. you do not target yourself with the spell. it is absolutely eligible for War Caster.
They changed the spell and the range is now officially “self (5-foot radius)” which definitively precludes it working with War Caster, as the feat specifically requires the spell “target only that creature.” (For the record, I houserule it works anyway, but RAW it does not. 🤷♂️)
Self (5-foot radius) means you are the spell's point of origin. not the target of the spell. you target any creature within a 5 foot radius of yourself.
No "target any creature within a 5 foot radius of yourself" is written "range: 5 ft" which is what they changed it FROM.
"Range: self (5-foot radius)" is an AOE that targets self as a point of origin, like sword burst.
You strike one creature with your melee weapon. It targets one creature a lot better than lightning bolt does. the radius is the reach in which you can target a creature. The change to self was specifically to disable its interaction with the twinned spell metamagic. The range has been modified but the spells description still pretty explicitly says that you are targeting only one other creature, not yourself. hope this helps 👍
That is incorrect. If it targets “self” to preclude Twinned Spell Metamagic, then it also precludes working with War Caster.
Booming blade targets any creature in a 5 foot radius from its point of origin, which is yourself. you do not target yourself with the spell. it is absolutely eligible for War Caster.
They changed the spell and the range is now officially “self (5-foot radius)” which definitively precludes it working with War Caster, as the feat specifically requires the spell “target only that creature.” (For the record, I houserule it works anyway, but RAW it does not. 🤷♂️)
Self (5-foot radius) means you are the spell's point of origin. not the target of the spell. you target any creature within a 5 foot radius of yourself.
No "target any creature within a 5 foot radius of yourself" is written "range: 5 ft" which is what they changed it FROM.
"Range: self (5-foot radius)" is an AOE that targets self as a point of origin, like sword burst.
You strike one creature with your melee weapon. It targets one creature a lot better than lightning bolt does. the radius is the reach in which you can target a creature. The change to self was specifically to disable its interaction with the twinned spell metamagic. The range has been modified but the spells description still pretty explicitly says that you are targeting only one other creature, not yourself. hope this helps 👍
That is incorrect. If it targets “self” to preclude Twinned Spell Metamagic, then it also precludes working with War Caster.
no it doesnt. 5 feet away from self is the range. you are targeting a different creature.
BB discussion is also completely divergent from the topic of this thread.
Wielding a two-handed weapon is a great way for a caster to always have one hand at the ready for spellcasting, should they choose to do so. I have seen some people question whether making an attack with the two-handed weapon on one's turn means both hands are occupied and therefore not available for reaction spellcasting, but that feels excessive to me. I don't see why letting go of the pommel of my big sword with one hand to quickly cast a reaction spell is really any different than raising my hand from a resting position to quickly cast a reaction spell.
See what I meant about how this change of topic would not be short or pleasant?
You read the rules as the point of origin not being the target of a spell, we read the rules as the point of origin being the target of the spell.
There is no clear answer in either the rules or SAC.
There is a very very clear answer. The spells description says you target one other creature. I really don’t understand the point of confusion. How can you look me in the eyes and tell me booming blade is capable of harming as many creatures as lightning bolt is in a single action?
Booming blade targets any creature in a 5 foot radius from its point of origin, which is yourself. you do not target yourself with the spell. it is absolutely eligible for War Caster.
They changed the spell and the range is now officially “self (5-foot radius)” which definitively precludes it working with War Caster, as the feat specifically requires the spell “target only that creature.” (For the record, I houserule it works anyway, but RAW it does not. 🤷♂️)
Self (5-foot radius) means you are the spell's point of origin. not the target of the spell. you target any creature within a 5 foot radius of yourself.
No "target any creature within a 5 foot radius of yourself" is written "range: 5 ft" which is what they changed it FROM.
"Range: self (5-foot radius)" is an AOE that targets self as a point of origin, like sword burst.
this is either embarassingly wrong or flatly dishonest. there really is no wiggle room for interpretation here. notice how booming blade mentions one creature within 5 feet of yourself. lightning bolt mentions each. sword burst mentions all other creatures. you might also want to take a look at word of radiance, a spell with a range of 5 feet.
See what I meant about how this change of topic would not be short or pleasant?
You read the rules as the point of origin not being the target of a spell, we read the rules as the point of origin being the target of the spell.
There is no clear answer in either the rules or SAC.
I realize this is not the right thread for this but it seems like it is being discussed anyway. Feel free to send me a DM if you prefer.
Normally I'd agree with you in terms of targeting. However, the text of booming blade explicitly refers to the creature you attack as the target. The rest of the rules I can find don't contradict that and in either case specific would beat general. So I guess I don't see the reasoning why booming blade couldn't be used with war caster since I can't find anything in the rules to indicate that the "Range" listed for a spell is synonymous with the "Target" of that spell.
Booming Blade says:
"You brandish the weapon used in the spell’s casting and make a melee attack with it against one creature within 5 feet of you. On a hit, the target suffers the weapon attack’s normal effects and then becomes sheathed in booming energy until the start of your next turn. If the target willingly moves 5 feet or more before then, the target takes 1d8 thunder damage, and the spell ends."
War Caster says:
"When a hostile creature’s movement provokes an opportunity attack from you, you can use your reaction to cast a spell at the creature, rather than making an opportunity attack. The spell must have a casting time of 1 action and must target only that creature."
Under Range it says:
"The target of a spell must be within the spell’s range."
The range of booming blade is Self (5' radius).
In addition range also says:
"Spells that create cones or lines of effect that originate from you also have a range of self, indicating that the origin point of the spell’s effect must be you."
Under targets it says:
"A typical spell requires you to pick one or more targets to be affected by the spell’s magic. A spell’s description tells you whether the spell targets creatures, objects, or a point of origin for an area of effect"
"Every area of effect has a point of origin, a location from which the spell’s energy erupts. The rules for each shape specify how you position its point of origin."
Since the spells description is cited as defining the target of the spell, booming blade specifies a creature within range which is Self (5' radius), it only targets the one creature, so I guess I am missing the nuance as to why booming blade no longer works with war caster. At the very least, it seems to me that the interpretation is up to the DM and RAW could at worst support either.
I would be interested to hear your take on why they released the errata if not to address the interaction of these particular features.
As DxJxC said, until there is official clarification on whether a spell's origin also counts as a target there is no RAW answer. You can certainly make inferences and have an opinion, but that's all it is. There's no text you can quote to prove things one way or another.
I would be interested to hear your take on why they released the errata if not to address the interaction of these particular features.
As DxJxC said, until there is official clarification on whether a spell's origin also counts as a target there is no RAW answer. You can certainly make inferences and have an opinion, but that's all it is.
I thought it was to prevent folks from twinning it? Twin has the following wording:
"When you cast a spell that targets only one creature and doesn’t have a range of self"
The new version of booming blade can't be twinned because it explicitly has a range of Self - however, as far as I can tell, it still targets one creature.
P.S. Since twin had to specify both "targets only one creature" and "doesn't have a range of self" ... it implies that you can have spells that target only one creature (that isn't you since you can't target the same creature with twin) but DO have a range of self.
P.P.S. The rules explicitly state that the target of the spell is in its description "A typical spell requires you to pick one or more targets to be affected by the spell’s magic. A spell’s description tells you whether the spell targets creatures, objects, or a point of origin for an area of effect" so I am not sure why they would ever have errata to say that a spell's range defines its target when they say the spells target is in its description.
P.P.P.S. Another example :) ... a fireball is aimed at a point within range but the targets are the creatures affected by the spell effect.
"A bright streak flashes from your pointing finger to a point you choose within range and then blossoms with a low roar into an explosion of flame. Each creature in a 20-foot-radius sphere centered on that point must make a Dexterity saving throw. A target takes 8d6 fire damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one"
Anyway, personally, I'm not really invested in the discussion, based on the rules I've read, I'd let booming blade work with warcaster at my table but I wouldn't let it be twinned. Twinning in my opinion was a far larger "abuse" of the spell since it could double the effectiveness whenever the sorcerer had two targets within range for a very modest 1 sorcery point.
I would be interested to hear your take on why they released the errata if not to address the interaction of these particular features.
As DxJxC said, until there is official clarification on whether a spell's origin also counts as a target there is no RAW answer. You can certainly make inferences and have an opinion, but that's all it is.
I thought it was to prevent folks from twinning it? Twin has the following wording:
"When you cast a spell that targets only one creature and doesn’t have a range of self"
The new version can't be twinned because it explicitly has a range of Self - however, as far as I can tell, it still targets one creature.
P.S. Since twin had to specify both "targets only one creature" and "doesn't have a range of self" ... it implies that you can have spells that target only one creature (that isn't you since you can't target the same creature with twin) but DO have a range of self.
But if it only has a range of “self,” how can it target any other creature than the caster…?
I would be interested to hear your take on why they released the errata if not to address the interaction of these particular features.
As DxJxC said, until there is official clarification on whether a spell's origin also counts as a target there is no RAW answer. You can certainly make inferences and have an opinion, but that's all it is.
I thought it was to prevent folks from twinning it? Twin has the following wording:
"When you cast a spell that targets only one creature and doesn’t have a range of self"
The new version can't be twinned because it explicitly has a range of Self - however, as far as I can tell, it still targets one creature.
P.S. Since twin had to specify both "targets only one creature" and "doesn't have a range of self" ... it implies that you can have spells that target only one creature (that isn't you since you can't target the same creature with twin) but DO have a range of self.
But if it only has a range of “self,” how can it target any other creature than the caster…?
Because the rules are clear that AoEs whose point of origin is the caster have a range of self.
These spells are sphere AoEs with a radius of five feet and an origin of the caster whose descriptions direct you to choose one target. Spheres do include the point of origin within their areas of effect, which makes the caster a valid choice for that single target, but it doesn't make the caster a target because the spell doesn't target every creature within the area of effect, only one.
I would be interested to hear your take on why they released the errata if not to address the interaction of these particular features.
As DxJxC said, until there is official clarification on whether a spell's origin also counts as a target there is no RAW answer. You can certainly make inferences and have an opinion, but that's all it is.
I thought it was to prevent folks from twinning it? Twin has the following wording:
"When you cast a spell that targets only one creature and doesn’t have a range of self"
The new version can't be twinned because it explicitly has a range of Self - however, as far as I can tell, it still targets one creature.
P.S. Since twin had to specify both "targets only one creature" and "doesn't have a range of self" ... it implies that you can have spells that target only one creature (that isn't you since you can't target the same creature with twin) but DO have a range of self.
But if it only has a range of “self,” how can it target any other creature than the caster…?
Because the rules are clear that AoEs whose point of origin is the caster have a range of self.
These spells are sphere AoEs with a radius of five feet and an origin of the caster whose descriptions direct you to choose one target. Spheres do include the point of origin within their areas of effect, which makes the caster a valid choice for that single target, but it doesn't make the caster a target because the spell doesn't target every creature within the area of effect, only one.
Then it’s an AoE and not a spell that targets a single creature, still preventing it from being eligible to work with War Caster.
As previously mentioned in this thread, the original purpose of this (8-month-old) thread was to discuss the interaction between two-handed weapons and Spellcasting with somatic components. The topic at hand after its revival is wholly unrelated; please take any further discussion following this new vein elsewhere.
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You strike one creature with your melee weapon. It targets one creature a lot better than lightning bolt does. the radius is the reach in which you can target a creature. The change to self was specifically to disable its interaction with the twinned spell metamagic. The range has been modified but the spells description still pretty explicitly says that you are targeting only one other creature, not yourself. hope this helps 👍
That is incorrect. If it targets “self” to preclude Twinned Spell Metamagic, then it also precludes working with War Caster.
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no it doesnt. 5 feet away from self is the range. you are targeting a different creature.
You can keep repeating your mantra, it doesn’t make it any more true.
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See what I meant about how this change of topic would not be short or pleasant?
You read the rules as the point of origin not being the target of a spell, we read the rules as the point of origin being the target of the spell.
There is no clear answer in either the rules or SAC.
BB discussion is also completely divergent from the topic of this thread.
Wielding a two-handed weapon is a great way for a caster to always have one hand at the ready for spellcasting, should they choose to do so. I have seen some people question whether making an attack with the two-handed weapon on one's turn means both hands are occupied and therefore not available for reaction spellcasting, but that feels excessive to me. I don't see why letting go of the pommel of my big sword with one hand to quickly cast a reaction spell is really any different than raising my hand from a resting position to quickly cast a reaction spell.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
There is a very very clear answer. The spells description says you target one other creature. I really don’t understand the point of confusion. How can you look me in the eyes and tell me booming blade is capable of harming as many creatures as lightning bolt is in a single action?
this is either embarassingly wrong or flatly dishonest. there really is no wiggle room for interpretation here. notice how booming blade mentions one creature within 5 feet of yourself. lightning bolt mentions each. sword burst mentions all other creatures. you might also want to take a look at word of radiance, a spell with a range of 5 feet.
I realize this is not the right thread for this but it seems like it is being discussed anyway. Feel free to send me a DM if you prefer.
Normally I'd agree with you in terms of targeting. However, the text of booming blade explicitly refers to the creature you attack as the target. The rest of the rules I can find don't contradict that and in either case specific would beat general. So I guess I don't see the reasoning why booming blade couldn't be used with war caster since I can't find anything in the rules to indicate that the "Range" listed for a spell is synonymous with the "Target" of that spell.
Booming Blade says:
"You brandish the weapon used in the spell’s casting and make a melee attack with it against one creature within 5 feet of you. On a hit, the target suffers the weapon attack’s normal effects and then becomes sheathed in booming energy until the start of your next turn. If the target willingly moves 5 feet or more before then, the target takes 1d8![]()
thunder damage, and the spell ends."
War Caster says:
"When a hostile creature’s movement provokes an opportunity attack from you, you can use your reaction to cast a spell at the creature, rather than making an opportunity attack. The spell must have a casting time of 1 action and must target only that creature."
Under Range it says:
"The target of a spell must be within the spell’s range."
The range of booming blade is Self (5' radius).
In addition range also says:
"Spells that create cones or lines of effect that originate from you also have a range of self, indicating that the origin point of the spell’s effect must be you."
Under targets it says:
"A typical spell requires you to pick one or more targets to be affected by the spell’s magic. A spell’s description tells you whether the spell targets creatures, objects, or a point of origin for an area of effect"
"Every area of effect has a point of origin, a location from which the spell’s energy erupts. The rules for each shape specify how you position its point of origin."
Since the spells description is cited as defining the target of the spell, booming blade specifies a creature within range which is Self (5' radius), it only targets the one creature, so I guess I am missing the nuance as to why booming blade no longer works with war caster. At the very least, it seems to me that the interpretation is up to the DM and RAW could at worst support either.
I would be interested to hear your take on why they released the errata if not to address the interaction of these particular features.
As DxJxC said, until there is official clarification on whether a spell's origin also counts as a target there is no RAW answer. You can certainly make inferences and have an opinion, but that's all it is. There's no text you can quote to prove things one way or another.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
See thread at https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/dungeons-dragons-discussion/rules-game-mechanics/86391-booming-blade-changes-in-tashas for further discussions on Booming Blade.
I thought it was to prevent folks from twinning it? Twin has the following wording:
"When you cast a spell that targets only one creature and doesn’t have a range of self"
The new version of booming blade can't be twinned because it explicitly has a range of Self - however, as far as I can tell, it still targets one creature.
P.S. Since twin had to specify both "targets only one creature" and "doesn't have a range of self" ... it implies that you can have spells that target only one creature (that isn't you since you can't target the same creature with twin) but DO have a range of self.
P.P.S. The rules explicitly state that the target of the spell is in its description "A typical spell requires you to pick one or more targets to be affected by the spell’s magic. A spell’s description tells you whether the spell targets creatures, objects, or a point of origin for an area of effect" so I am not sure why they would ever have errata to say that a spell's range defines its target when they say the spells target is in its description.
P.P.P.S. Another example :) ... a fireball is aimed at a point within range but the targets are the creatures affected by the spell effect.
"A bright streak flashes from your pointing finger to a point you choose within range and then blossoms with a low roar into an explosion of flame. Each creature in a 20-foot-radius sphere centered on that point must make a Dexterity saving throw. A target takes 8d6![]()
fire damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one"
Anyway, personally, I'm not really invested in the discussion, based on the rules I've read, I'd let booming blade work with warcaster at my table but I wouldn't let it be twinned. Twinning in my opinion was a far larger "abuse" of the spell since it could double the effectiveness whenever the sorcerer had two targets within range for a very modest 1 sorcery point.
But if it only has a range of “self,” how can it target any other creature than the caster…?
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Because the rules are clear that AoEs whose point of origin is the caster have a range of self.
These spells are sphere AoEs with a radius of five feet and an origin of the caster whose descriptions direct you to choose one target. Spheres do include the point of origin within their areas of effect, which makes the caster a valid choice for that single target, but it doesn't make the caster a target because the spell doesn't target every creature within the area of effect, only one.
Then it’s an AoE and not a spell that targets a single creature, still preventing it from being eligible to work with War Caster.
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AlumniAs previously mentioned in this thread, the original purpose of this (8-month-old) thread was to discuss the interaction between two-handed weapons and Spellcasting with somatic components. The topic at hand after its revival is wholly unrelated; please take any further discussion following this new vein elsewhere.