Last session, I polymorphed the party's cleric into a tyrannosaurus rex, and we stormed a cult hideout. The cultists were bombarding us with spells, but they were mostly firing at the t-rex. The DM was frustrated that a 4th level spell was wreaking so much havoc on the ground floor and its inhabitants. I recommended to the DM, "Um, they don't have to bring the t-rex to zero if they can just break my concentration." The DM replied that no, even after bombarding the t-rex with damage (and me with a few spells), they could not discern that I was the real caster.
WHAT?! It can't be this easy, right? Is there no indication that a creature is making a saving throw to maintain concentration? Because I don't wanna have to deal with the enemies using this trick on us (this DM would absolutely do that).
If the enemies didn't see you casting the spell, why would they have any reason to suspect you were the caster. RAW, there is no visual link between the caster and the castee.
The DM could maybe have an enemy spell caster make some sort of Arcana check to sense the source of the magic, but only if they want to waste a turn doing it.
(1) Tyrannosaurus Rex have an intelligence of 2, so while it may be able to recognize its friends, it would be unable to understand language and would have little grasp of what the party wants it to do. They are perfectly good for sowing chaos and terrorizing fleshy creatures, but could very easily get in the way of their own party.
(2) T. Rex are Huge. Unless the hideout was a massive fortress, it's likely that most of the doors and hallways were either 10 or 5ft wide, which means the T. Rex should have really struggled to navigate. At the very least, the T. Rex would have filled the hallways and essentially been the only target for either group. (Squeezing imposes disadvantage on attacks and dexterity saving throws while providing advantage on attacks against the squeezing target.)
(3) Concentration doesn't look like anything, but there are multiple ways to trigger a Concentration Check. For example, if the caster is actively trying to avoid being collateral damage to the T. Rex's rampaging.
(4) While it may not be RAW, it is perfectly reasonable for a DM to require that the caster be minimally familiar with the beast that they are polymorphing their target into. Dinosaurs are one of those categories of creatures that most DMs simply ignore. If a player at my table wanted to use the T. Rex for this purpose, I would ask them to justify their intimate knowledge of prehistoric creatures and then make a decision.
I think that in 5e worlds where magic was prevalent, people would become well acquainted with concentration spells. Even low-level casters could use create bonfire to keep a high-ceilinged tavern warm and castings of spells like dancing lights, friends, guidance, resistance, bless, detect poison and disease, fog cloud, hideous laughter, and silent image might all be commonplace.
Understandings of what it might take to break concentration might also become well known. Then you see a T-Rex that keeps getting hit but that remains in the form of a T-Rex. I think it would be quite possible for opponents to start to look for other potential targets that might be maintaining the concentration.
(4) While it may not be RAW, it is perfectly reasonable for a DM to require that the caster be minimally familiar with the beast that they are polymorphing their target into. Dinosaurs are one of those categories of creatures that most DMs simply ignore. If a player at my table wanted to use the T. Rex for this purpose, I would ask them to justify their intimate knowledge of prehistoric creatures and then make a decision.
Yeah, polymorph is notable in that RAW it doesn't require knowledge of a creature and just says: "The new form can be any beast whose challenge rating is equal to or less than the target's ..." Depending on view it could be considered that the spell gives awareness of both challenge rating parameters and beast options.
Polymorph can allow a 7th level bard, druid, sorcerer, wizard or trickery domain cleric to transform themselves of a similarly levelled colleague into a CR7 Giant Ape - and this at the same time that a 7th level moon druid can only wildshape into a CR2 beast. Restricting polymorph options could seriously nerf the (admittedly very powerful) spell and it might also limit practical options for characterisation. What character would choose, for instance, a hermit background and introverted personality when they could be an exuberant far traveller or well-connected sage so as to later justify their polymorph options?
The rules don't say concentrating on a spell or effect is noticeable in any fashion and it'd be hard to detect as normal activity, such as moving and attacking, doesn’t interfere with concentration. A very perceptive or intuitive creature might know, deduce or otherwise come to the conclusion that a perceiveable effect is maintained by concentration from a creature present but it'd be a guess who. A DM could always ask for a Wisdom (Perception or Insight) check to do so.
Many spell effects, such as of Hideous Laughter or Polymorph are noticable and, in a world in which magic was common, it might become common knowledge that one way to stop the effects of certain spells would to keep punching the caster until they stop. What better way to get a rival spell caster beaten up than to cast a problematic concentration spell that the rival caster might be blamed for? If people had magic there could be awful temptations to use it and any such scenarios (for ill or good) could bring significant opportunities for others to try to work out what was going on.
A few things. Yes, the building was too small. That's why we ripped up the ground floor (without attacking the load bearing walls), so the T-Rex could get in. Also, the cleric retained her alignment and personality, so she wouldn't attack us. The issue I have is that the enemies couldn't figure out I was concentrating even after I took damage (and I had [feat]war caster[/feat] so I was good there). Various game mechanics such as the divination wizard's Portent seem to indicate that at there are saving throws that can be perceived. Why not these?
Because concentration is a mental exercise and thus not perceiveable, nor does it impact the effect being concentrated on in any way. A DM that want to indicate it IC could always say the effect rippled faintly upon the caster being hit.
The thing that would be perceivable to opponents is that they've got, fighting against them a scaled creature with little biddy arms and large everything else including the jaws it's trying to chomp them with. They might have even noticed a probably armoured, possibly religious (possibly unassuming) looking creature get transformed into this fanged, reptile-like beast. It would also be apparent that, even though they kept hitting the big fanged beast, it's still there.
Last session, ... I recommended to the DM, "Um, they don't have to bring the t-rex to zero if they can just break my concentration." The DM replied that no, even after bombarding the t-rex with damage (and me with a few spells), they could not discern that I was the real caster..
IF these opponents were reasonably acquainted with magic in their 5e world then they might have an understanding of the conditions by which concentration spells worked in their 5e world. In these conditions, I think they could have been able to deduce that the cleric that had transformed into the t-rex was less likely to be the real caster.
If magic was a topic that was widely discussed they might also have known that shapechanging abilities and magics are more within the spheres of druids, wizards, sorcerers and warlocks rather than of non-trickery domain type clerics and potentially got them toward that view even more quickly.
Who had cast the polymorph spell, the cleric that had then been bombarded with damage or the druid or wizard that had been hit by a few spells?
(1) Tyrannosaurus Rex have an intelligence of 2, so while it may be able to recognize its friends, it would be unable to understand language and would have little grasp of what the party wants it to do. They are perfectly good for sowing chaos and terrorizing fleshy creatures, but could very easily get in the way of their own party.
This is entirely false. Having an Int of 2 means they're bad at solving puzzles, not that they become a murderous sociopath that'll turn on their own team. They do not lose their known languages. They do not forget why they're there. They just get real bad at taking in new information.
(2) T. Rex are Huge. Unless the hideout was a massive fortress, it's likely that most of the doors and hallways were either 10 or 5ft wide, which means the T. Rex should have really struggled to navigate. At the very least, the T. Rex would have filled the hallways and essentially been the only target for either group. (Squeezing imposes disadvantage on attacks and dexterity saving throws while providing advantage on attacks against the squeezing target.)
Irrelevant to the topic.
(3) Concentration doesn't look like anything, but there are multiple ways to trigger a Concentration Check. For example, if the caster is actively trying to avoid being collateral damage to the T. Rex's rampaging.
Again, entirely false interpretation of the effects of Polymorph. The spell doesn't force the target "to rampage" or whatever. You also nestled the only relevant answer in your post into the first 5 words here.
(4) While it may not be RAW, it is perfectly reasonable for a DM to require that the caster be minimally familiar with the beast that they are polymorphing their target into. Dinosaurs are one of those categories of creatures that most DMs simply ignore. If a player at my table wanted to use the T. Rex for this purpose, I would ask them to justify their intimate knowledge of prehistoric creatures and then make a decision.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Ignoring issues of interpretation, every thread has text and subtext. Responding to the text may provide a technically correct answer, but it can fail to provide a resolution.
Here, the text focuses on Concentration, but the subtext is how the DM and Players interact when a spell, specifically Polymorph, becomes disruptive. Discussing peripheral interactions can bypass issues, or put them into a relevant context.
If the OP needs clarification, or justification, for anything in my post, I am happy to follow up with their questions directly.
Whilst concentration might not be noticeable, general spellcasting is. Therefore it’s reasonable an enemy can connect the dots, perhaps even linking certain types of spellcaster to the spell.
(1) Tyrannosaurus Rex have an intelligence of 2, so while it may be able to recognize its friends, it would be unable to understand language and would have little grasp of what the party wants it to do. They are perfectly good for sowing chaos and terrorizing fleshy creatures, but could very easily get in the way of their own party.
This is entirely false. Having an Int of 2 means they're bad at solving puzzles, not that they become a murderous sociopath that'll turn on their own team. They do not lose their known languages. They do not forget why they're there. They just get real bad at taking in new information.
(1) "...Murderous sociopath that'll turn on their own team."
I specifically said that they would recognize their own friends. I also said that they would "easily get in the way of" their own party, not attack them.
Translation:"T. Rex are HUGE creatures. They literally represent a physical obstacle that needs to be worked around. If the T.Rex fills an entire hallway while engaging in melee, then other melee combatants would be unable to occupy the same space."
(2) "They do not lose their known languages"
I understand how one could believe this, however, the wording of the spell is explicit: "The target's game statistics, including mental ability scores, are replaced by the statistics of the chosen beast."
"Language" is an element of creature statblocks. It is neither an alignment, nor a personality trait. Ergo, the polymorphed individual would lose their ability to communicate. This is RAW, whether or not it is RAI is a separate issue.
(3) "They just get real bad at taking in new information."
Right, "new", as in essentially everything that happens after the party physically enters the hideout. Unless the party thoroughly plans ahead of time, and literally nothing unexpected happens, the entire mission is going to be improvised. Knowing "why" the party is in the hideout doesn't help much when it comes to navigating from Start to Finish.
(2) T. Rex are Huge. Unless the hideout was a massive fortress, it's likely that most of the doors and hallways were either 10 or 5ft wide, which means the T. Rex should have really struggled to navigate. At the very least, the T. Rex would have filled the hallways and essentially been the only target for either group. (Squeezing imposes disadvantage on attacks and dexterity saving throws while providing advantage on attacks against the squeezing target.)
Irrelevant to the topic.
Addressed in the previous post.
(3) Concentration doesn't look like anything, but there are multiple ways to trigger a Concentration Check. For example, if the caster is actively trying to avoid being collateral damage to the T. Rex's rampaging.
Again, entirely false interpretation of the effects of Polymorph. The spell doesn't force the target "to rampage" or whatever. You also nestled the only relevant answer in your post into the first 5 words here.
(1) "Rampaging"
I never said that polymorph would force a character to rampage, nor is this conversation piece about polymorph specifically. I was paraphrasing directly from the Dungeon Master's Guide:
"The GM might also decide that certain environmental phenomena, such as a wave Crashing over you while you’re on a storm--tossed ship, require you to succeed on a DC 10 Constitution saving throw to maintain Concentration on a spell."
I use the word "rampage" because it is narratively appropriate. Sure, a player could choose to describe the T.Rex as delicately nibbling on an orc, but who does that? I was drawing inspiration from the description of the T.Rex entry itself:
"This enormous predatory dinosaur terrorizes all other creatures in its territory. It chases anything it thinks it can eat, and there are few creatures it won’t try to devour whole."
The player retains their personality, but they are still a 40ft long, 14,000 pound set of sharp-toothed vice grips literally built to tear flesh.
I also drew from the OP's own description of events:
"The DM was frustrated that a 4th level spell was wreaking so much havoc on the ground floor and its inhabitants."
That may as well be the dictionary definition of "Rampage".
(4) While it may not be RAW, it is perfectly reasonable for a DM to require that the caster be minimally familiar with the beast that they are polymorphing their target into. Dinosaurs are one of those categories of creatures that most DMs simply ignore. If a player at my table wanted to use the T. Rex for this purpose, I would ask them to justify their intimate knowledge of prehistoric creatures and then make a decision.
Various game mechanics such as the divination wizard's Portent seem to indicate that at there are saving throws that can be perceived. Why not these?
It might be easier to say that "Concentration" looks like a lot of things, so the issue is more that the Cultist would have a hard time knowing what was being concentrated on.
As Ariiss24 said, even if the Spell Concentration isn't obvious, D&D is still a world of magic. Anyone with at least moderate intelligence should be capable of deducing that someone is maintaining concentration on a spell, and it's probably not the half-naked barbarian.
For your own sake, having the ability to cast Dispel Magic never hurts. (Or have a debilitating INT-Save option up your sleeve.)
(1) Tyrannosaurus Rex have an intelligence of 2, so while it may be able to recognize its friends, it would be unable to understand language and would have little grasp of what the party wants it to do. They are perfectly good for sowing chaos and terrorizing fleshy creatures, but could very easily get in the way of their own party.
This is entirely false. Having an Int of 2 means they're bad at solving puzzles, not that they become a murderous sociopath that'll turn on their own team. They do not lose their known languages. They do not forget why they're there. They just get real bad at taking in new information.
(1) "...Murderous sociopath that'll turn on their own team."
I specifically said that they would recognize their own friends. I also said that they would "easily get in the way of" their own party, not attack them.
Translation:"T. Rex are HUGE creatures. They literally represent a physical obstacle that needs to be worked around. If the T.Rex fills an entire hallway while engaging in melee, then other melee combatants would be unable to occupy the same space."
(2) "They do not lose their known languages"
I understand how one could believe this, however, the wording of the spell is explicit: "The target's game statistics, including mental ability scores, are replaced by the statistics of the chosen beast."
"Language" is an element of creature statblocks. It is neither an alignment, nor a personality trait. Ergo, the polymorphed individual would lose their ability to communicate. This is RAW, whether or not it is RAI is a separate issue.
(3) "They just get real bad at taking in new information."
Right, "new", as in essentially everything that happens after the party physically enters the hideout. Unless the party thoroughly plans ahead of time, and literally nothing unexpected happens, the entire mission is going to be improvised. Knowing "why" the party is in the hideout doesn't help much when it comes to navigating from Start to Finish.
(2) T. Rex are Huge. Unless the hideout was a massive fortress, it's likely that most of the doors and hallways were either 10 or 5ft wide, which means the T. Rex should have really struggled to navigate. At the very least, the T. Rex would have filled the hallways and essentially been the only target for either group. (Squeezing imposes disadvantage on attacks and dexterity saving throws while providing advantage on attacks against the squeezing target.)
Irrelevant to the topic.
Addressed in the previous post.
(3) Concentration doesn't look like anything, but there are multiple ways to trigger a Concentration Check. For example, if the caster is actively trying to avoid being collateral damage to the T. Rex's rampaging.
Again, entirely false interpretation of the effects of Polymorph. The spell doesn't force the target "to rampage" or whatever. You also nestled the only relevant answer in your post into the first 5 words here.
(1) "Rampaging"
I never said that polymorph would force a character to rampage, nor is this conversation piece about polymorph specifically. I was paraphrasing directly from the Dungeon Master's Guide:
"The GM might also decide that certain environmental phenomena, such as a wave Crashing over you while you’re on a storm--tossed ship, require you to succeed on a DC 10 Constitution saving throw to maintain Concentration on a spell."
I use the word "rampage" because it is narratively appropriate. Sure, a player could choose to describe the T.Rex as delicately nibbling on an orc, but who does that? I was drawing inspiration from the description of the T.Rex entry itself:
"This enormous predatory dinosaur terrorizes all other creatures in its territory. It chases anything it thinks it can eat, and there are few creatures it won’t try to devour whole."
The player retains their personality, but they are still a 40ft long, 14,000 pound set of sharp-toothed vice grips literally built to tear flesh.
I also drew from the OP's own description of events:
"The DM was frustrated that a 4th level spell was wreaking so much havoc on the ground floor and its inhabitants."
That may as well be the dictionary definition of "Rampage".
(4) While it may not be RAW, it is perfectly reasonable for a DM to require that the caster be minimally familiar with the beast that they are polymorphing their target into. Dinosaurs are one of those categories of creatures that most DMs simply ignore. If a player at my table wanted to use the T. Rex for this purpose, I would ask them to justify their intimate knowledge of prehistoric creatures and then make a decision.
Entirely off topic.
Addressed in the previous post.
I agree; Concentration doesn't look like anything.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Does concentration require a physical effort or involvement?
I think the fact that resisting its interruption requires a constitution saving throw could suggest that it does.
If real-world conditions were to apply I wouldn't be surprised if a skilled mentalist could instantly tell not only who was holding concentration but also which spell was being maintained.
As things are we are all in guesswork in regard to the involvements of spellcasting and the maintenance of spells but, if you don't want concentration to have any visual cues in your world, fine.
Does concentration require a physical effort or involvement?
No.
I think the fact that resisting its interruption requires a constitution saving throw could suggest that it does.
No. All a saving throw requirement indicates is that a saving throw is required. If a creature is sufficiently distracted by taking damage or other environmental effects, their background focus on the spell they are concentrating on slips and the spell ends. This is certainly a valid interpretation since the rules do not require anything special for maintaining concentration, specify a very limited set of conditions where it can be lost, and do not describe "concentration" as requiring any particular sort of attention.
A character can literally do almost anything while concentrating on a spell - read a book, start a camp fire, ride a horse, make attacks, dodge creatures in combat, run, jump, swing from an chandelier. The rules also do NOT indicate any way for concentration to be noticeable.
If real-world conditions were to apply I wouldn't be surprised if a skilled mentalist could instantly tell not only who was holding concentration but also which spell was being maintained.
Nope. Tell me what I am thinking. Am I concentrating on a math problem? Am I considering the showmanship of the "mentalist"? Concentration on a spell requires such little attention (as indicated by the wide range of activities that can be undertaken without affecting concentration) that there are no signs that a person is maintaining a spell.
As things are we are all in guesswork in regard to the involvements of spellcasting and the maintenance of spells but, if you don't want concentration to have any visual cues in your world, fine.
Anyone can play any way they like. However, the discussion here is usually in terms of RAW. As far as the rules in the book, there are no indications that a creature is concentrating on a spell and very few ways in which that concentration can be lost.
(1) Tyrannosaurus Rex have an intelligence of 2, so while it may be able to recognize its friends, it would be unable to understand language and would have little grasp of what the party wants it to do. They are perfectly good for sowing chaos and terrorizing fleshy creatures, but could very easily get in the way of their own party.
This is entirely false. Having an Int of 2 means they're bad at solving puzzles, not that they become a murderous sociopath that'll turn on their own team. They do not lose their known languages. They do not forget why they're there. They just get real bad at taking in new information.
Just a couple of clarifications. Keep in mind that this is a RAW discussion and you are welcome to run your game however you like.
Here is the text of the spell:
"POLYMORPH 4th-level transmutation Casting Time: 1 action Range: 60 feet Components: V, S, M (a caterpillar cocoon) Duration: Concentration, up to 1 hour This spell transforms a creature that you can see within range into a new form. An unwilling creature must make a Wisdom saving throw to avoid the effect. The spell has no effect on a shapechanger or a creature with 0 hit points. The transformation lasts for the duration, or until the target drops to 0 hit points or dies. The new form can be any beast whose challenge rating is equal to or less than the target's (or the target's level, if it doesn't have a challenge rating). The target's game statistics, including mental ability scores, are replaced by the statistics of the chosen beast. It retains its alignment and personality. The target assumes the hit points of its new form. When it reverts to its normal form, the creature returns to the number of hit points it had before it transformed. If it reverts as a result of dropping to 0 hit points, any excess damage carries over to its normal form. As long as the excess damage doesn't reduce the creature's normal form to 0 hit points, it isn't knocked unconscious. The creature is limited in the actions it can perform by the nature of its new form, and it can't speak, cast spells, or take any other action that requires hands or speech. The target's gear melds into the new form. The creature can't activate, use, wield, or otherwise benefit from any of its equipment."
The character's game statistics (EVERYTHING) is replaced by the statistics of the chosen beast. The only thing the character retains are "alignment and personality".
"TYRANNOSAURUS REX Huge beast, unaligned Armor Class 13 (natural armor) Hit Points 136 (13d12 +52) Speed 50 ft. STR 25 (+7) DEX 10 (+0) CON 19 (+4) INT 2 (-4) WIS 12 (+1) CHA 9 (-1)
Skills Perception +4
Senses passive Perception 14 Languages -"
Languages is "-" ... a T-rex knows no languages. The stat block of a T-rex replaces ALL the character abilities (including their ability to think). They explicitly lose any ability with language.
The character's int is 2. Cats and Dogs are smarter than this creature.
However, there are two areas of DM discretion in the description of the spell.
1) What does INT mean? I usually interpret an INT of 2 which is less than that of a dog or cat - to mean that the creature has less cognitive ability than a dog or cat. You can certainly interpret it to mean an inability to acquire new information. However, in comparison to other creatures with an INT of 2, I would not tend to interpret it that way. The stat block of the character is REPLACED by the stat block of a T-rex - the character BECOMES a T-rex - I interpret this to mean that the character now has ALL the characteristics of a T-rex, both mental and physical. I think that position is supported by comparing to other creatures with INT of 2 and the statement that the character stat block is replaced with the beast stat block.
2) What does alignment and personality - particularly "personality" mean? Alignment is pretty easy - if they are good they stay good, if they are evil they stay evil. However, personality I usually interpret to mean exactly that. "the combination of characteristics or qualities that form an individual's distinctive character." Are they typically happy, sad, melancholy, easy to anger, mean, petty, jealous, impatient. The definition of "personality" is what the character is LIKE - not what they know, not their memories, not their ability to reason at a high level.
So when I have a polymorphed beast in my games they can't understand language unless a druid casts a speak with animals spell. They retain alignment and personality so they won't attack their friends and they WILL attack anything that looks hostile to their friends (or if they are hungry and could use a snack). I'd allow an animal handling check from a friend to try to convince it execute a simple task (like bash down a door) but the complexity of the task it could understand is limited by its intelligence.
All of that is supported by RAW, however, since what INT and personality mean are both a DM call - how polymorph runs in various people's games WILL differ a lot. However, either way, a T-rex is unable to understand any language (since there is no language in its stat block and the rules are very explicit) which leads me to conclude that the polymorphed T-rex does not retain knowledge in general including languages - they don't know that they were a PC in another life :)
Does concentration require a physical effort or involvement?
No.
I think the fact that resisting its interruption requires a constitution saving throw could suggest that it does.
No. All a saving throw requirement indicates is that a saving throw is required. If a creature is sufficiently distracted by taking damage or other environmental effects, their background focus on the spell they are concentrating on slips and the spell ends. This is certainly a valid interpretation since the rules do not require anything special for maintaining concentration, specify a very limited set of conditions where it can be lost, and do not describe "concentration" as requiring any particular sort of attention.
A character can literally do almost anything while concentrating on a spell - read a book, start a camp fire, ride a horse, make attacks, dodge creatures in combat, run, jump, swing from an chandelier. The rules also do NOT indicate any way for concentration to be noticeable.
If real-world conditions were to apply I wouldn't be surprised if a skilled mentalist could instantly tell not only who was holding concentration but also which spell was being maintained.
Nope. Tell me what I am thinking. Am I concentrating on a math problem? Am I considering the showmanship of the "mentalist"? Concentration on a spell requires such little attention (as indicated by the wide range of activities that can be undertaken without affecting concentration) that there are no signs that a person is maintaining a spell.
As things are we are all in guesswork in regard to the involvements of spellcasting and the maintenance of spells but, if you don't want concentration to have any visual cues in your world, fine.
Anyone can play any way they like. However, the discussion here is usually in terms of RAW. As far as the rules in the book, there are no indications that a creature is concentrating on a spell and very few ways in which that concentration can be lost.
There is nothing in the 5e texts to say whether concentration can possibly be perceived or not.
If you think that you have found something to this effect, please quote the rule.
Considering that 5e is pretty firm in its stance that spellcasting in general is noticeable, in my worlds concentration is noticeable as well. As others have said, D&D is a world steeped in magic. Creatures that are strong enough to challenge a party of heroes have likely seen their fair share of magic and know the basics. If you're playing them as idiots who can't connect the dots between a massive persistent magical effect and a guy with a blazing spellcasting implement, you're just doing a disservice to your players.
Moreover, concentration is a balancing mechanic for these spells. Many spells are very difficult to handle any other way aside from waiting out their entire duration. It's true that there is no RAW about this either way, but when you factor in the balance aspect the RAI is pretty clear.
Noticeable concentration creates dramatic tension by making the spellcaster a target. This is a fun and absolutely intentional aspect of the game's design. All the "mystery concentration" strategy does is create metagame frustration and greatly increase the power of spells that are already powerful enough.
Last session, I polymorphed the party's cleric into a tyrannosaurus rex, and we stormed a cult hideout. The cultists were bombarding us with spells, but they were mostly firing at the t-rex. The DM was frustrated that a 4th level spell was wreaking so much havoc on the ground floor and its inhabitants. I recommended to the DM, "Um, they don't have to bring the t-rex to zero if they can just break my concentration." The DM replied that no, even after bombarding the t-rex with damage (and me with a few spells), they could not discern that I was the real caster.
WHAT?! It can't be this easy, right? Is there no indication that a creature is making a saving throw to maintain concentration? Because I don't wanna have to deal with the enemies using this trick on us (this DM would absolutely do that).
If the enemies didn't see you casting the spell, why would they have any reason to suspect you were the caster. RAW, there is no visual link between the caster and the castee.
The DM could maybe have an enemy spell caster make some sort of Arcana check to sense the source of the magic, but only if they want to waste a turn doing it.
(1) Tyrannosaurus Rex have an intelligence of 2, so while it may be able to recognize its friends, it would be unable to understand language and would have little grasp of what the party wants it to do. They are perfectly good for sowing chaos and terrorizing fleshy creatures, but could very easily get in the way of their own party.
(2) T. Rex are Huge. Unless the hideout was a massive fortress, it's likely that most of the doors and hallways were either 10 or 5ft wide, which means the T. Rex should have really struggled to navigate. At the very least, the T. Rex would have filled the hallways and essentially been the only target for either group. (Squeezing imposes disadvantage on attacks and dexterity saving throws while providing advantage on attacks against the squeezing target.)
(3) Concentration doesn't look like anything, but there are multiple ways to trigger a Concentration Check. For example, if the caster is actively trying to avoid being collateral damage to the T. Rex's rampaging.
(4) While it may not be RAW, it is perfectly reasonable for a DM to require that the caster be minimally familiar with the beast that they are polymorphing their target into. Dinosaurs are one of those categories of creatures that most DMs simply ignore. If a player at my table wanted to use the T. Rex for this purpose, I would ask them to justify their intimate knowledge of prehistoric creatures and then make a decision.
I think that in 5e worlds where magic was prevalent, people would become well acquainted with concentration spells. Even low-level casters could use create bonfire to keep a high-ceilinged tavern warm and castings of spells like dancing lights, friends, guidance, resistance, bless, detect poison and disease, fog cloud, hideous laughter, and silent image might all be commonplace.
Understandings of what it might take to break concentration might also become well known. Then you see a T-Rex that keeps getting hit but that remains in the form of a T-Rex. I think it would be quite possible for opponents to start to look for other potential targets that might be maintaining the concentration.
Yeah, polymorph is notable in that RAW it doesn't require knowledge of a creature and just says: "The new form can be any beast whose challenge rating is equal to or less than the target's ..." Depending on view it could be considered that the spell gives awareness of both challenge rating parameters and beast options.
Polymorph can allow a 7th level bard, druid, sorcerer, wizard or trickery domain cleric to transform themselves of a similarly levelled colleague into a CR7 Giant Ape - and this at the same time that a 7th level moon druid can only wildshape into a CR2 beast. Restricting polymorph options could seriously nerf the (admittedly very powerful) spell and it might also limit practical options for characterisation. What character would choose, for instance, a hermit background and introverted personality when they could be an exuberant far traveller or well-connected sage so as to later justify their polymorph options?
The rules don't say concentrating on a spell or effect is noticeable in any fashion and it'd be hard to detect as normal activity, such as moving and attacking, doesn’t interfere with concentration. A very perceptive or intuitive creature might know, deduce or otherwise come to the conclusion that a perceiveable effect is maintained by concentration from a creature present but it'd be a guess who. A DM could always ask for a Wisdom (Perception or Insight) check to do so.
Many spell effects, such as of Hideous Laughter or Polymorph are noticable and, in a world in which magic was common, it might become common knowledge that one way to stop the effects of certain spells would to keep punching the caster until they stop.
What better way to get a rival spell caster beaten up than to cast a problematic concentration spell that the rival caster might be blamed for?
If people had magic there could be awful temptations to use it and any such scenarios (for ill or good) could bring significant opportunities for others to try to work out what was going on.
A few things. Yes, the building was too small. That's why we ripped up the ground floor (without attacking the load bearing walls), so the T-Rex could get in. Also, the cleric retained her alignment and personality, so she wouldn't attack us. The issue I have is that the enemies couldn't figure out I was concentrating even after I took damage (and I had [feat]war caster[/feat] so I was good there). Various game mechanics such as the divination wizard's Portent seem to indicate that at there are saving throws that can be perceived. Why not these?
Because concentration is a mental exercise and thus not perceiveable, nor does it impact the effect being concentrated on in any way. A DM that want to indicate it IC could always say the effect rippled faintly upon the caster being hit.
The thing that would be perceivable to opponents is that they've got, fighting against them a scaled creature with little biddy arms and large everything else including the jaws it's trying to chomp them with. They might have even noticed a probably armoured, possibly religious (possibly unassuming) looking creature get transformed into this fanged, reptile-like beast. It would also be apparent that, even though they kept hitting the big fanged beast, it's still there.
IF these opponents were reasonably acquainted with magic in their 5e world then they might have an understanding of the conditions by which concentration spells worked in their 5e world. In these conditions, I think they could have been able to deduce that the cleric that had transformed into the t-rex was less likely to be the real caster.
If magic was a topic that was widely discussed they might also have known that shapechanging abilities and magics are more within the spheres of druids, wizards, sorcerers and warlocks rather than of non-trickery domain type clerics and potentially got them toward that view even more quickly.
Who had cast the polymorph spell, the cleric that had then been bombarded with damage or the druid or wizard that had been hit by a few spells?
This is entirely false. Having an Int of 2 means they're bad at solving puzzles, not that they become a murderous sociopath that'll turn on their own team. They do not lose their known languages. They do not forget why they're there. They just get real bad at taking in new information.
Irrelevant to the topic.
Again, entirely false interpretation of the effects of Polymorph. The spell doesn't force the target "to rampage" or whatever. You also nestled the only relevant answer in your post into the first 5 words here.
Entirely off topic.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
@Ravnodaus,
Ignoring issues of interpretation, every thread has text and subtext. Responding to the text may provide a technically correct answer, but it can fail to provide a resolution.
Here, the text focuses on Concentration, but the subtext is how the DM and Players interact when a spell, specifically Polymorph, becomes disruptive. Discussing peripheral interactions can bypass issues, or put them into a relevant context.
If the OP needs clarification, or justification, for anything in my post, I am happy to follow up with their questions directly.
Whilst concentration might not be noticeable, general spellcasting is. Therefore it’s reasonable an enemy can connect the dots, perhaps even linking certain types of spellcaster to the spell.
Lot's of people have commented that concentration doesn't look like anything.
I'm happy that you all don't have the trouble thinking I have. :D
@Ravnodaus - Now that I'm home I'll respond to your points more directly in the Spoiler below:
@SuperParkourio
It might be easier to say that "Concentration" looks like a lot of things, so the issue is more that the Cultist would have a hard time knowing what was being concentrated on.
As Ariiss24 said, even if the Spell Concentration isn't obvious, D&D is still a world of magic. Anyone with at least moderate intelligence should be capable of deducing that someone is maintaining concentration on a spell, and it's probably not the half-naked barbarian.
For your own sake, having the ability to cast Dispel Magic never hurts. (Or have a debilitating INT-Save option up your sleeve.)
I agree; Concentration doesn't look like anything.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Does concentration require a physical effort or involvement?
I think the fact that resisting its interruption requires a constitution saving throw could suggest that it does.
If real-world conditions were to apply I wouldn't be surprised if a skilled mentalist could instantly tell not only who was holding concentration but also which spell was being maintained.
As things are we are all in guesswork in regard to the involvements of spellcasting and the maintenance of spells but, if you don't want concentration to have any visual cues in your world, fine.
No.
No. All a saving throw requirement indicates is that a saving throw is required. If a creature is sufficiently distracted by taking damage or other environmental effects, their background focus on the spell they are concentrating on slips and the spell ends. This is certainly a valid interpretation since the rules do not require anything special for maintaining concentration, specify a very limited set of conditions where it can be lost, and do not describe "concentration" as requiring any particular sort of attention.
A character can literally do almost anything while concentrating on a spell - read a book, start a camp fire, ride a horse, make attacks, dodge creatures in combat, run, jump, swing from an chandelier. The rules also do NOT indicate any way for concentration to be noticeable.
Nope. Tell me what I am thinking. Am I concentrating on a math problem? Am I considering the showmanship of the "mentalist"? Concentration on a spell requires such little attention (as indicated by the wide range of activities that can be undertaken without affecting concentration) that there are no signs that a person is maintaining a spell.
Anyone can play any way they like. However, the discussion here is usually in terms of RAW. As far as the rules in the book, there are no indications that a creature is concentrating on a spell and very few ways in which that concentration can be lost.
Just a couple of clarifications. Keep in mind that this is a RAW discussion and you are welcome to run your game however you like.
Here is the text of the spell:
"POLYMORPH
4th-level transmutation
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: 60 feet
Components: V, S, M (a caterpillar cocoon)
Duration: Concentration, up to 1 hour
This spell transforms a creature that you can see within range into a new form. An unwilling creature must make a Wisdom saving throw to avoid the effect. The spell has no effect on a shapechanger or a creature with 0 hit points.
The transformation lasts for the duration, or until the target drops to 0 hit points or dies. The new form can be any beast whose challenge rating is equal to or less than the target's (or the target's level, if it doesn't have a challenge rating). The target's game statistics, including mental ability scores, are replaced by the statistics of the chosen beast. It retains its alignment and personality. The target assumes the hit points of its new form. When it reverts to its normal form, the creature returns to the number of hit points it had before it transformed. If it reverts as a result of dropping to 0 hit points, any excess damage carries over to its normal form. As long as the excess damage doesn't reduce the creature's normal form to 0 hit points, it isn't knocked unconscious.
The creature is limited in the actions it can perform by the nature of its new form, and it can't speak, cast spells, or take any other action that requires hands or speech. The target's gear melds into the new form. The creature can't activate, use, wield, or otherwise benefit from any of its equipment."
The character's game statistics (EVERYTHING) is replaced by the statistics of the chosen beast. The only thing the character retains are "alignment and personality".
"TYRANNOSAURUS REX
Huge beast, unaligned
Armor Class 13 (natural armor)
Hit Points 136 (13d12 +52)
Speed 50 ft.
STR 25 (+7)
DEX 10 (+0)
CON 19 (+4)
INT 2 (-4)
WIS 12 (+1)
CHA 9 (-1)
Skills Perception +4
Senses passive Perception 14
Languages -"
Languages is "-" ... a T-rex knows no languages. The stat block of a T-rex replaces ALL the character abilities (including their ability to think). They explicitly lose any ability with language.
The character's int is 2. Cats and Dogs are smarter than this creature.
However, there are two areas of DM discretion in the description of the spell.
1) What does INT mean? I usually interpret an INT of 2 which is less than that of a dog or cat - to mean that the creature has less cognitive ability than a dog or cat. You can certainly interpret it to mean an inability to acquire new information. However, in comparison to other creatures with an INT of 2, I would not tend to interpret it that way. The stat block of the character is REPLACED by the stat block of a T-rex - the character BECOMES a T-rex - I interpret this to mean that the character now has ALL the characteristics of a T-rex, both mental and physical. I think that position is supported by comparing to other creatures with INT of 2 and the statement that the character stat block is replaced with the beast stat block.
2) What does alignment and personality - particularly "personality" mean? Alignment is pretty easy - if they are good they stay good, if they are evil they stay evil. However, personality I usually interpret to mean exactly that. "the combination of characteristics or qualities that form an individual's distinctive character." Are they typically happy, sad, melancholy, easy to anger, mean, petty, jealous, impatient. The definition of "personality" is what the character is LIKE - not what they know, not their memories, not their ability to reason at a high level.
So when I have a polymorphed beast in my games they can't understand language unless a druid casts a speak with animals spell. They retain alignment and personality so they won't attack their friends and they WILL attack anything that looks hostile to their friends (or if they are hungry and could use a snack). I'd allow an animal handling check from a friend to try to convince it execute a simple task (like bash down a door) but the complexity of the task it could understand is limited by its intelligence.
All of that is supported by RAW, however, since what INT and personality mean are both a DM call - how polymorph runs in various people's games WILL differ a lot. However, either way, a T-rex is unable to understand any language (since there is no language in its stat block and the rules are very explicit) which leads me to conclude that the polymorphed T-rex does not retain knowledge in general including languages - they don't know that they were a PC in another life :)
There is nothing in the 5e texts to say whether concentration can possibly be perceived or not.
If you think that you have found something to this effect, please quote the rule.
Considering that 5e is pretty firm in its stance that spellcasting in general is noticeable, in my worlds concentration is noticeable as well. As others have said, D&D is a world steeped in magic. Creatures that are strong enough to challenge a party of heroes have likely seen their fair share of magic and know the basics. If you're playing them as idiots who can't connect the dots between a massive persistent magical effect and a guy with a blazing spellcasting implement, you're just doing a disservice to your players.
Moreover, concentration is a balancing mechanic for these spells. Many spells are very difficult to handle any other way aside from waiting out their entire duration. It's true that there is no RAW about this either way, but when you factor in the balance aspect the RAI is pretty clear.
Noticeable concentration creates dramatic tension by making the spellcaster a target. This is a fun and absolutely intentional aspect of the game's design. All the "mystery concentration" strategy does is create metagame frustration and greatly increase the power of spells that are already powerful enough.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm