Setup: A window is locked from the inside. Not wanting to break the glass and wake up the occupants of the house the Warlock wants to cast Mage Hand through the window and unlock it.
Question: Can Mage Hand be cast through an object like glass?
My take away is yes because there is nothing in the rule that indicates uninterrupted line of site. Through a stone wall no. This seems like an easy question but just wanted to run it past the hive mind in case there is some rule I’ve over looked.
Ah the glass window. One of the toughest foes in D&D.
Using general spellcasting rules, you cannot cast the mage hand on the other side of the window unless you have some other direct way of doing it. The spell does say You can move the hand up to 30 feet each time you use it which does not place any specific restrictions on what you can move it through, but that's a VERY slippery slope because I think we can all agree it wasn't really meant to go through solid walls or doors and that logic would hold true for windows as well.
Looks like you might need to just break the window or cause your familiar to reappear on the far side of the window and attempt to unlock it for you. Of course, that would come with its own set of challenges unrelated to the question you are asking.
Reading the spell, I’d say that you can even conjure the Mage Hand on the other side of a stone wall. You won’t be able to feel anything with it or see where it is so it will be pretty useless, but based on the Dimension Door spell’s wording you don’t even need to be able to see where the Mage Hand appears when you cast the spell.
The 1st line of Mage Hand reads... A spectral, floating hand appears at a point you choose within range.
Since the range is 30 feet you should be able to make the hand appear within 30 feet, through glass, through stone... even through adamantine. It's not really travelling through the object, it's just appearing somewhere within 30 feet. So it could appear on the other side of... anything really.
What rules or reasoning makes you think it can be cast through glass but not stone?
My thought, and obviously I can be wrong, is the visual context for using the hand. I guess through stone you don’t know where or to what you’re casting it at which I guess effectively makes you blind when using it.
Ah the glass window. One of the toughest foes in D&D.
Using general spellcasting rules, you cannot cast the mage hand on the other side of the window unless you have some other direct way of doing it. The spell does say You can move the hand up to 30 feet each time you use it which does not place any specific restrictions on what you can move it through, but that's a VERY slippery slope because I think we can all agree it wasn't really meant to go through solid walls or doors and that logic would hold true for windows as well.
Looks like you might need to just break the window or cause your familiar to reappear on the far side of the window and attempt to unlock it for you. Of course, that would come with its own set of challenges unrelated to the question you are asking.
Honestly, I was not a fan of the idea because I can see the warlock abusing this little “trick”. No rogue? No problem! I know, rare situations it may occur
while I could not justify saying no without doing some research I just want to be able to understand why it’s ok and if it’s not then be able to properly explain it to the player without having to say “No! I am DM hear me roar!”
The big issue would be the rule that there needs to be an unobstructed path from the caster to the point/creature/object upon which the spell is being cast unless the spell states otherwise. The closed window in this case would be the obstruction that prevents the casting in this way.
The big issue would be the rule that there needs to be an unobstructed path from the caster to the point/creature/object upon which the spell is being cast unless the spell states otherwise. The closed window in this case would be the obstruction that prevents the casting in this way.
are you referring to this from the spell casting section in the PHB
A Clear Path to the Target
To target something, you must have a clear path to it, so it can't be behind total cover.
If you place an area of effect at a point that you can't see and an obstruction, such as a wall, is between you and that point, the point of origin comes into being on the near side of that obstruction
I think the line of effect to the target rules come into play here. You cannot cast it on the other side of the window because you do not live line of effect to the target location within 30 feet. The reason spells like dimension door or misty step are not hindered by the window is that the target of the spell is "self" while the mage hand is targeting a location and the spell cannot reach its target. Misty step targets the PC and allows them to teleport on the other side of the window.
A Clear Path to the Target
To target something, you must have a clear path to it, so it can't be behind total cover. If you place an area of effect at a point that you can't see and an obstruction, such as a wall, is between you and that point, the point of origin comes into being on the near side of that obstruction.
The window does actually count as total cover. It is a solid object and spells effects just like weapons cannot pass through it... without breaking the window...
Mage Hand does not say it targets anything, it just appears at a point within range, it doesn't even say you have to see that spot.
Is appearing at a point considered targeting?
You are correct it does not.
i was going to go into this bit of how your placement of the mage hand is “targeting” a location similar to an area affect spell but then it came down to no that’s just stretching the narrative to fit what I wanted to hear.
it’s been good to hear these other opinions which as I said above I just wanted to make sure I was not overlooking some arcane rule but there is no RAW that says Mage Hand cannot be cast past an obstruction like a glass window.
spells cannot target anything behind total cover unless they say they can like sacred flame. Mage hand does not say that you target a space for it to appear but you are targeting it as much as you would any spell that says it targets a space. I would rule that you don't have a clear path but that's just my opinion.
I have ruled before that after the Find familiar has been cast and dismissed you can make it reappear in a place behind total cover because it is not casting a spell anymore and is no longer limited by needing a clear path. The wording is similar though so I might just be biased here.
I'd be lenient on it, and allow the hand to appear and unlock the window, using the obvious clasp or latch they can see through the glass. Doors, on the other hand, if locked, will require a key or lockpicking, from either side, to prevent it from being overused. Or a 12 lb bar holding it shut. there's a ton of ways to ensure the spell isn't abused, while still allowing it the utility (I believe) it was intended for. Unlocking a window from the outside is pretty much a prime example of what I always pictured the spell doing.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Talk to your Players.Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
Perhaps not Mage Hand, but Unseen Servant doesn't even need line of sight, and can act on your literal commands.
So, casting the servant and going "Open the lock to this door/window" is perfectly reasonable, provided a key or latch are easy enough to find, as it won't be picking any locks for you.
Similarly "find a coin purse and throw it out the window" is also fine, as the servant can perform simple tasks without your supervision, it is essentially its own creature, that lacks any sense of morals or empathy, and is utterly obedient provided your orders are within the actions it can perform.
My take is that both mage hand and unseen servant target a point (or unoccupied space for US) in which to create their namesakes, so line of effect would apply.
Where it gets tricky for me is where you draw the line of "total cover." Say there is a hole in the window. Can you cast through it? How small can that hole be? Does it make a difference if you are right up next to the hole as opposed to 20 feet away?
Similarly:
You can move the hand up to 30 feet each time you use it which does not place any specific restrictions on what you can move it through, but that's a VERY slippery slope because I think we can all agree it wasn't really meant to go through solid walls or doors and that logic would hold true for windows as well.
I agree with this, but where does that slippery slope begin? Could a mage hand go through the crack under a door? Through a keyhole? It's pretty commonly cast through jail cell bars - how close would those bars need to be before it would be unreasonable to send it through?
I don't think there's a right answer here, but it's good to think this kind of stuff through so you can make a ruling that's a bit more thoughtful than whatever you might decide when it comes up in the middle of a game.
For me I would say that the hand is the size of a normal hand (for your race I guess) and can fit through any hole your hand could fit through. I would also allow the spell to be cast through a hole that big too though. If trying to cast an attack spell though a small hole like that I would likely give cover to the target and disadvantage on the attack roll.
Some creatures like the Air Elemental specify that they can squeeze through a space as narrow as 1 inch without squeezing. The spell gaseous form says "The target can pass through small holes, narrow openings, and even mere cracks". Since mage hand and unseen servant do not say they can fit through cracks or tiny holes I wouldn't allow that. And I agree that line of effect matters here and glass is total cover.
Misty step will get you through as long as you can see where you are going though.
Setup: A window is locked from the inside. Not wanting to break the glass and wake up the occupants of the house the Warlock wants to cast Mage Hand through the window and unlock it.
Question: Can Mage Hand be cast through an object like glass?
My take away is yes because there is nothing in the rule that indicates uninterrupted line of site. Through a stone wall no. This seems like an easy question but just wanted to run it past the hive mind in case there is some rule I’ve over looked.
I don't think "through" is relevant.
Mage Hand RANGE/AREA 30 ft SCHOOL Conjuration ATTACK/SAVE None A spectral, floating hand appears at a point you choose within range. The hand lasts for the duration or until you dismiss it as an action. The hand vanishes if it is ever more than 30 feet away from you or if you cast this spell again.
You can use your action to control the hand. You can use the hand to manipulate an object, open an unlocked door or container, stow or retrieve an item from an open container, or pour the contents out of a vial. You can move the hand up to 30 feet each time you use it.
The hand can't attack, activate magic items, or carry more than 10 pounds.
I don't think, RAW, that the spellcasting rules for Targets apply to this.
A typical spell requires you to pick one or more targets to be affected by the spell's magic. A spell's description tells you whether the spell targets creatures, objects, or a point of origin for an area of effect (described below).
Unless a spell has a perceptible effect, a creature might not know it was targeted by a spell at all. An effect like crackling lightning is obvious, but a more subtle effect, such as an attempt to read a creature's thoughts, typically goes unnoticed, unless a spell says otherwise.
A Clear Path to the Target
To target something, you must have a clear path to it, so it can't be behind total cover.
If you place an area of effect at a point that you can't see and an obstruction, such as a wall, is between you and that point, the point of origin comes into being on the near side of that obstruction.
...
Areas of Effect
Spells such as burning hands and cone of cold cover an area, allowing them to affect multiple creatures at once.
A spell's description specifies its area of effect, which typically has one of five different shapes: cone, cube, cylinder, line, or sphere. Every area of effect has a point of origin, a location from which the spell's energy erupts. The rules for each shape specify how you position its point of origin. Typically, a point of origin is a point in space, but some spells have an area whose origin is a creature or an object.
A spell's effect expands in straight lines from the point of origin. If no unblocked straight line extends from the point of origin to a location within the area of effect, that location isn't included in the spell's area. To block one of these imaginary lines, an obstruction must provide total cover, as explained in chapter 9.
Cone
A cone extends in a direction you choose from its point of origin. A cone's width at a given point along its length is equal to that point's distance from the point of origin. A cone's area of effect specifies its maximum length.
A cone's point of origin is not included in the cone's area of effect, unless you decide otherwise.
Cube
You select a cube's point of origin, which lies anywhere on a face of the cubic effect. The cube's size is expressed as the length of each side.
A cube's point of origin is not included in the cube's area of effect, unless you decide otherwise.
Cylinder
A cylinder's point of origin is the center of a circle of a particular radius, as given in the spell description. The circle must either be on the ground or at the height of the spell effect. The energy in a cylinder expands in straight lines from the point of origin to the perimeter of the circle, forming the base of the cylinder. The spell's effect then shoots up from the base or down from the top, to a distance equal to the height of the cylinder.
A cylinder's point of origin is included in the cylinder's area of effect.
Line
A line extends from its point of origin in a straight path up to its length and covers an area defined by its width.
A line's point of origin is not included in the line's area of effect, unless you decide otherwise.
Sphere
You select a sphere's point of origin, and the sphere extends outward from that point. The sphere's size is expressed as a radius in feet that extends from the point.
A sphere's point of origin is included in the sphere's area of effect.
RAW there's no area effect involved and certainly not one that fits the specified 5e definitions. It seems to me that the rules for Targets don't apply to conjuration spells that don't have a specified area of effect.
Yes, you choose a point within range at which you conjour the Mage Hand to appear but, in this, you are not choosing a target for an origin for an area of effect such as a cone, cube, cylinder, line or sphere.
GergKyae, that means you would be able to summon any creature type of summon spell on the other side of a 5 foot thick wall of glass. I'm pretty sure that all conjuration summoning spells still require line of effect to the target location. And selecting a space for the summoned creature IS targeting a space for an effect. The other side of a glass wall has no open line of effect to the target location. Spells like misty step that targets self still work because the target is yourself and not the space you are appearing in. Though I can see how the wording of the target spaces are very similar, the magic of the spell does not have to get through the glass to it's target for misty step.
The hand is spectral. The spell description says as much. It can easily pass through anything other than like, force effects, or other magical protections that ward against incorporeal objects. The spell also doesn't target anything during the casting, you just create it. So you can cast it anywhere within range.
Now, to use it you need to direct it to interact with stuff, so if you can't see what you want it to interact with you're going to have some difficulty. You could maybe lash around blindly, and trash someone's living room, knock over picture frames and lamps or whatever randomly, and do so from their front porch, but that's all, since you can't see what it is doing in there.
But through a window? Game on. You can see, so can direct it, and glass certainly has no special supernatural ability to block specters, so your mage hand can go right on in there easy.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
GergKyae, that means you would be able to summon any creature type of summon spell on the other side of a 5 foot thick wall of glass. I'm pretty sure that all conjuration summoning spells still require line of effect to the target location. And selecting a space for the summoned creature IS targeting a space for an effect. The other side of a glass wall has no open line of effect to the target location. Spells like misty step that targets self still work because the target is yourself and not the space you are appearing in. Though I can see how the wording of the target spaces are very similar, the magic of the spell does not have to get through the glass to it's target for misty step.
That would certainly work as a fair interpretation of RAI. Go for it.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the example your using of summoning creatures, isn't it in the spell itself that says "appear in unoccupied spaces that you can see within range." Whereas mage hand says "A spectral, floating hand appears at a point you choose within range."
So in essence, the spell that summons creatures has a specific of needing sight whereas mage hand does not.
This is an interesting thread to have bumped, but I agree. The spell Mage Hand states that the hand appears at a point the caster chooses within range (30ft). It does not say that you need uninterrupted line of sight or that you even need to see where it appears. It simply appears at any point of the caster's choosing. This can be behind a door if there is space to allow it to appear.
Setup: A window is locked from the inside. Not wanting to break the glass and wake up the occupants of the house the Warlock wants to cast Mage Hand through the window and unlock it.
Question: Can Mage Hand be cast through an object like glass?
My take away is yes because there is nothing in the rule that indicates uninterrupted line of site. Through a stone wall no. This seems like an easy question but just wanted to run it past the hive mind in case there is some rule I’ve over looked.
Ah the glass window. One of the toughest foes in D&D.
Using general spellcasting rules, you cannot cast the mage hand on the other side of the window unless you have some other direct way of doing it. The spell does say You can move the hand up to 30 feet each time you use it which does not place any specific restrictions on what you can move it through, but that's a VERY slippery slope because I think we can all agree it wasn't really meant to go through solid walls or doors and that logic would hold true for windows as well.
Looks like you might need to just break the window or cause your familiar to reappear on the far side of the window and attempt to unlock it for you. Of course, that would come with its own set of challenges unrelated to the question you are asking.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Reading the spell, I’d say that you can even conjure the Mage Hand on the other side of a stone wall. You won’t be able to feel anything with it or see where it is so it will be pretty useless, but based on the Dimension Door spell’s wording you don’t even need to be able to see where the Mage Hand appears when you cast the spell.
Professional computer geek
My thought, and obviously I can be wrong, is the visual context for using the hand. I guess through stone you don’t know where or to what you’re casting it at which I guess effectively makes you blind when using it.
Honestly, I was not a fan of the idea because I can see the warlock abusing this little “trick”. No rogue? No problem! I know, rare situations it may occur
while I could not justify saying no without doing some research I just want to be able to understand why it’s ok and if it’s not then be able to properly explain it to the player without having to say “No! I am DM hear me roar!”
The big issue would be the rule that there needs to be an unobstructed path from the caster to the point/creature/object upon which the spell is being cast unless the spell states otherwise. The closed window in this case would be the obstruction that prevents the casting in this way.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
are you referring to this from the spell casting section in the PHB
A Clear Path to the Target
To target something, you must have a clear path to it, so it can't be behind total cover.
If you place an area of effect at a point that you can't see and an obstruction, such as a wall, is between you and that point, the point of origin comes into being on the near side of that obstruction
I think the line of effect to the target rules come into play here. You cannot cast it on the other side of the window because you do not live line of effect to the target location within 30 feet. The reason spells like dimension door or misty step are not hindered by the window is that the target of the spell is "self" while the mage hand is targeting a location and the spell cannot reach its target. Misty step targets the PC and allows them to teleport on the other side of the window.
A Clear Path to the Target
To target something, you must have a clear path to it, so it can't be behind total cover.
If you place an area of effect at a point that you can't see and an obstruction, such as a wall, is between you and that point, the point of origin comes into being on the near side of that obstruction.
The window does actually count as total cover. It is a solid object and spells effects just like weapons cannot pass through it... without breaking the window...
You are correct it does not.
i was going to go into this bit of how your placement of the mage hand is “targeting” a location similar to an area affect spell but then it came down to no that’s just stretching the narrative to fit what I wanted to hear.
it’s been good to hear these other opinions which as I said above I just wanted to make sure I was not overlooking some arcane rule but there is no RAW that says Mage Hand cannot be cast past an obstruction like a glass window.
There is a sage advice that says glass provides total cover
https://media.wizards.com/2017/podcasts/dnd/DnDPodcast_01_19_2017.mp3
spells cannot target anything behind total cover unless they say they can like sacred flame. Mage hand does not say that you target a space for it to appear but you are targeting it as much as you would any spell that says it targets a space. I would rule that you don't have a clear path but that's just my opinion.
I have ruled before that after the Find familiar has been cast and dismissed you can make it reappear in a place behind total cover because it is not casting a spell anymore and is no longer limited by needing a clear path. The wording is similar though so I might just be biased here.
I'd be lenient on it, and allow the hand to appear and unlock the window, using the obvious clasp or latch they can see through the glass. Doors, on the other hand, if locked, will require a key or lockpicking, from either side, to prevent it from being overused. Or a 12 lb bar holding it shut. there's a ton of ways to ensure the spell isn't abused, while still allowing it the utility (I believe) it was intended for. Unlocking a window from the outside is pretty much a prime example of what I always pictured the spell doing.
Talk to your Players. Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
Perhaps not Mage Hand, but Unseen Servant doesn't even need line of sight, and can act on your literal commands.
So, casting the servant and going "Open the lock to this door/window" is perfectly reasonable, provided a key or latch are easy enough to find, as it won't be picking any locks for you.
Similarly "find a coin purse and throw it out the window" is also fine, as the servant can perform simple tasks without your supervision, it is essentially its own creature, that lacks any sense of morals or empathy, and is utterly obedient provided your orders are within the actions it can perform.
My take is that both mage hand and unseen servant target a point (or unoccupied space for US) in which to create their namesakes, so line of effect would apply.
Where it gets tricky for me is where you draw the line of "total cover." Say there is a hole in the window. Can you cast through it? How small can that hole be? Does it make a difference if you are right up next to the hole as opposed to 20 feet away?
Similarly:
I agree with this, but where does that slippery slope begin? Could a mage hand go through the crack under a door? Through a keyhole? It's pretty commonly cast through jail cell bars - how close would those bars need to be before it would be unreasonable to send it through?
I don't think there's a right answer here, but it's good to think this kind of stuff through so you can make a ruling that's a bit more thoughtful than whatever you might decide when it comes up in the middle of a game.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
For me I would say that the hand is the size of a normal hand (for your race I guess) and can fit through any hole your hand could fit through. I would also allow the spell to be cast through a hole that big too though. If trying to cast an attack spell though a small hole like that I would likely give cover to the target and disadvantage on the attack roll.
Some creatures like the Air Elemental specify that they can squeeze through a space as narrow as 1 inch without squeezing. The spell gaseous form says "The target can pass through small holes, narrow openings, and even mere cracks". Since mage hand and unseen servant do not say they can fit through cracks or tiny holes I wouldn't allow that. And I agree that line of effect matters here and glass is total cover.
Misty step will get you through as long as you can see where you are going though.
I don't think "through" is relevant.
I don't think, RAW, that the spellcasting rules for Targets apply to this.
RAW there's no area effect involved and certainly not one that fits the specified 5e definitions. It seems to me that the rules for Targets don't apply to conjuration spells that don't have a specified area of effect.
Yes, you choose a point within range at which you conjour the Mage Hand to appear but, in this, you are not choosing a target for an origin for an area of effect such as a cone, cube, cylinder, line or sphere.
GergKyae, that means you would be able to summon any creature type of summon spell on the other side of a 5 foot thick wall of glass. I'm pretty sure that all conjuration summoning spells still require line of effect to the target location. And selecting a space for the summoned creature IS targeting a space for an effect. The other side of a glass wall has no open line of effect to the target location. Spells like misty step that targets self still work because the target is yourself and not the space you are appearing in. Though I can see how the wording of the target spaces are very similar, the magic of the spell does not have to get through the glass to it's target for misty step.
The hand is spectral. The spell description says as much. It can easily pass through anything other than like, force effects, or other magical protections that ward against incorporeal objects. The spell also doesn't target anything during the casting, you just create it. So you can cast it anywhere within range.
Now, to use it you need to direct it to interact with stuff, so if you can't see what you want it to interact with you're going to have some difficulty. You could maybe lash around blindly, and trash someone's living room, knock over picture frames and lamps or whatever randomly, and do so from their front porch, but that's all, since you can't see what it is doing in there.
But through a window? Game on. You can see, so can direct it, and glass certainly has no special supernatural ability to block specters, so your mage hand can go right on in there easy.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
That would certainly work as a fair interpretation of RAI. Go for it.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the example your using of summoning creatures, isn't it in the spell itself that says "appear in unoccupied spaces that you can see within range." Whereas mage hand says "A spectral, floating hand appears at a point you choose within range."
So in essence, the spell that summons creatures has a specific of needing sight whereas mage hand does not.
This is an interesting thread to have bumped, but I agree. The spell Mage Hand states that the hand appears at a point the caster chooses within range (30ft). It does not say that you need uninterrupted line of sight or that you even need to see where it appears. It simply appears at any point of the caster's choosing. This can be behind a door if there is space to allow it to appear.
DM mostly, Player occasionally | Session 0 form | He/Him/They/Them
EXTENDED SIGNATURE!
Doctor/Published Scholar/Science and Healthcare Advocate/Critter/Trekkie/Gandalf with a Glock
Try DDB free: Free Rules (2024), premade PCs, adventures, one shots, encounters, SC, homebrew, more
Answers: physical books, purchases, and subbing.
Check out my life-changing